 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Peace in Ireland?
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Joe Offer Date: 08 Dec 08 - 06:44 PM One final note from David el Gnomo, received 8 December, 2008:
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Teribus Date: 07 Dec 08 - 06:09 PM So we have Guest Oakville, who is also Guest London Irish, who is also Guest SW12, who is also Guest Little Englander. Balham?? When have I EVER posted ANYTHING about Balham - Now come along, take a big dose of Methadone, toddle down to the British Government sponsored Portacabin with its charity computers, do as much research as your addled brains will allow and come back with a reference to this supposed post of mine about Balham.
Oh, and those of you who insist on using multiple identities may find yourself blocked or deleted. -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 07 Dec 08 - 04:12 PM Keith, I think it fair to warn you - you have lost us all! The thing about Oakville, he was never quite as good after leaving Keith Harris. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: GUEST,Oakville Date: 07 Dec 08 - 03:41 PM I wish only to tell the truth, sadly I can no trust you as fly boy Keith has ruined this and many other threads by playing dirty. Keith why oh why did you do this, I lost all respect for you and can no longer trust you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 07 Dec 08 - 03:34 PM I said I will repond to points put without personal attacks, but only if they are relevant to the current peace process. If they are dredging up events from the troubles of bygone centuries, you will have to use a different thread. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 07 Dec 08 - 02:29 PM Re me imitating Oakville. Yes and I stand by it. I made Oakville tell the truth, except that the real Oakville felt no shame for the lies he told. When the victim of a lying attack by a Guest, why should I not fight back when the mods did nothing? Presumably you support the lying Oakville. Tell us why. The thread is here in case anyone wants to look and see who was debating and who lying. thread.cfm?threadid=113936&messages=92 And now you are telling lies about Terribus. Balham? Can you produce this post? No. Telling lies in a debate destroys your credibility. You are not helping your case. If you want me to respond, just make your points without the nonsense.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 07 Dec 08 - 11:07 AM Sigh:-( One more time now... As long as people keep dredging up the past what chance has this war torn area got? DeG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 07 Dec 08 - 10:04 AM some mothers don't arf 'ave 'em. Seriously! what a complete singalong braindead bumhole! I find that post so stupid, so offensive, so lacking in compassion for every party. Piss off! and set dynamite off in your own house - see how you like it, and the effects of it. You obviously live nowhere where such things have happened, wankalong willy! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Sing-Along Steve Date: 07 Dec 08 - 09:43 AM It saddens me to read people referring to such a place as "Northern Ireland", as if it were a separate place and not the north OF Ireland, which it is. People are talking about terrorist bombs being terrorist bombs, no matter what... Let me ask you: If you had a rapist or murderer in your house who somehow managed to secret himself in the house in such a way as to be very difficult to root out, would YOU allow yourself to be called a terrorist if you finally just dynamited the bastard out? Didn't think so. Why, then, are the people of Ireland made to accept the rule of an invader, no matter how long that invader may have been there? The answer I would give to an intruder, especially one who sought to retain control over my person and goods by force, would be, "get the fuck out", whether I was saying to them 5 seconds or 100 years after their arrival. I agree that there are more peaceable ways to end the conflict than bombs and guns, but there are no ways at all to end the conflict without ridding the NATION OF IRELAND, the WHOLE beautiful nation, of its problem: occupation by a hostile force. When boyhood's fire was in my blood I read of ancient freemen, For Greece and Rome who bravely stood, Three hundred men and three men; And then I prayed I yet might see Our fetters rent in twain, And Ireland, long a province, be. A Nation once again! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 06 Dec 08 - 05:06 PM Balham - gateway to the south..... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: GUEST,London Irish Date: 06 Dec 08 - 03:17 PM Not as complex as this guy Keith. Why does he which to mimic other people who post here ? Bit sad really. And why is this other guy attacking the people of Balham London SW. Come on pal, the people in Balham are as British as they come, Best of British getting verbals from Teribus, blow me down my old sparrow. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 06 Dec 08 - 02:47 PM why Joe, its simplicity itself. There is Keith. He has a glove puppet called Oakville. He has another called Guest SW12. After an acerbic dialogue, Oakville and Guest SW12 agree that Keith is a pretty good chap and has basically sound ideas on the subject of Ireland. Hope this clarifies things for you. I realise that politics over here can seem a bit complicated. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: GUEST,SW12 Date: 06 Dec 08 - 02:34 PM I think this is about as low as a person can go. Keith was beat fair and square by a respected vistor to this site a chappie called Oakville. Keith was advised by a jolly good bunch of chaps to give consideration to accepting defeat in a particular debate. No such luck, cheeky Keith took on the unsportsmanly role of letting on he was this Oakville chap and and began to write posts under his name. Pretty bad show I say. I see it hasn't been the first time Keith has done this. Pretty darn low I'd say, pretty darn low. Subject: RE: BS: Britain and Germany rule the waves ! From: GUEST,Oakville Date: 01 Sep 08 - 05:18 PM Keith, I have found no bigotry or slurs in your posts. I take it back. I am ashamed. This message appears to have been posted by Keith A of Hertford. That's not allowed, Keith - and you damn well know it. -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: GUEST,SW12 Date: 06 Dec 08 - 02:27 PM Yes I see Keith admits to underhand tactics on threads to create trouble, very underhand, very British Keith. Who are you tonight Keith or Oakville ? Keith did you not read the Stevens Report which provided the first official acknowledgement of collusion between loyalist armed groups and British security forces in the murders of nationalists in Northern Ireland ? Such collusion and associated conspiracies have been a central feature of the British response to the conflict in Ireland for more than thirty years. It amounts to a Holy War, or Jihad, in the name of Protestantism and the British monarchy. That war has been swathed in secrecy and denial, protected by notions of 'national security' that pervade every corner of the legal system and the political establishment a very British Jihad. As well as Keith, we see the crazed Teribus ride in to this thread. I see Teribus attacked the good people of Balham on this site. Well buddy, I live in the South West of London and we en't too keen on old Tars either, we saw enough of their antics, 80% of sailors or Royal Marines are considered to have made advances towards other males. So Teribus, I won't be giving you my email address, so you can bring a tear to someother poor sods eye. Solicitor Pat Finucane was murdered by loyalists operating with the assistance of British military intelligence.Teribus more or less agreed with this when he was boasting about observing torture tactics in Ulster while serving over there. What about the British agent and UDA intelligence officer Brian Nelson Keith ? Nelson's diary revealed was that British military intelligence and covert units, including the Force Research Unit and 14th Intelligence, were intimately involved with loyalist armed groups. These groups had been equipped with armaments sourced in South Africa and smuggled into Northern Ireland with the full knowledge of MI5. links between soldiers, police officers and loyalist gunmen, RUC cover-ups and the notorious Portadown based 'ratpack' led by 'king rat' Billy Wright. Keith/Oakville, whatever you would like to be called tonight, what is special investigation into the Dublin/Monaghan bombings, read up on it. Teribus, maybe you should investigate the unsavoury relationships between the intelligence agencies, politicians, the police, the British Army and loyalism instead of verbal attacks on the honest hard working folk in Balham. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: GUEST,SW12 Date: 06 Dec 08 - 02:05 PM Subject: RE: BS: Britain and Germany rule the waves ! From: GUEST,Oakville Date: 01 Sep 08 - 05:18 PM Keith, I have found no bigotry or slurs in your posts. I take it back. I am ashamed. This message appears to have been posted by Keith A of Hertford. That's not allowed, Keith - and you damn well know it. -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: GUEST,Little Englander Date: 06 Dec 08 - 07:51 AM What if the Nationalists become the majority in Northern Ireland in the foreseeable future? The Unionists can re-draw the border around three counties where they will constitute a majority and declare that 'Ulster' [with the backing of the British army] will never surrender. That should give us another century or two of strife to be going on with, and the Tories will still have a faint ghost of their empire to get puffed up about. Little Englander |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Dec 08 - 08:14 AM Comrac, may I reply to each point. "Sorry Keith A I don´t compare bombs, why are you saying the Loyalist ones are acceptable ?" I said they were nasty, not acceptable. But unlike you, I consider the bombs of both sides. "I see you are in Hertford, England. So possibly you understand then that loyalists have worked with your Crown forces in Ireland, north and south in murdering people for their faith." No. "Maybe that is why your government is in no hurry to put the screws on them to disarm. Sorry I cannot speak for eirigi, so I have no idea what their plans are." No challenge. "You ask "Do the wishes of the majority matter to you?" I ask you, are you saying because I would like to see unity in Ireland and the end of British rule that I am not entitled to an opinion ?" Yes you are, but not to impose your will on an unwilling majority by force. "I see from your previous posts you defend the role of your government in Ireland and support the military role and defend them. Not knocking you mate, that is your prerogative." The military role was to counter the military action of paramilitaries. "Faults can be found in both our nations, but you guys had the rule of law on your side (your law) and what they done to the Irish nation over 800 years is shameful. Your nation supported the Free French during the 39-45 war, were they terrorists or freedom fighters ?" The Free French did not have the alternative of voting out the Natzis. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Teribus Date: 05 Dec 08 - 08:12 AM Terrorist bombs are terrorist bombs, plain and simple, they mostly target the innocent as the statistics from Northern Ireland plainly show. British, or Irish Governments not putting pressure on the "Loyalist" paramilitary groups to disarm?? I can't remember them putting any pressure on the "Republican" paramilitary groups to disarm either. What we got were statements of intention and then they took their own sweet time about it. I note that Guest Comrac does not mention CIRA, or RIRA, who are still armed and active on the "Republican" side of the equation. As for: "You ask "Do the wishes of the majority matter to you?" I ask you, are you saying because I would like to see unity in Ireland and the end of British rule that I am not entitled to an opinion ? You are of course entitled to your opinion, but that opinion doesn't then give anyone the right to justify and advocate the instigation of a bombing campaign against innocent civilians in order to change their minds. Fact Ireland will be united when the majority of the people of Northern Ireland vote for it. When asked at the time of the GFA referendum if violence had a place in politics in Ireland the referendum taken throughout the whole of the island of Ireland came back with a resounding NO. Now I don't know what that suggests to you Guest Comrac but the one thing it most certainly is not is a mandate for any paramilitaries "Loyalist" or "Republican". |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Teribus Date: 05 Dec 08 - 07:47 AM As to what's allowed and what isn't, any single Guest can create and post under as many names as he wishes using the prefix Guest, so I can hardly see why a member cannot ditch his "cookie" and do exactly the same posting as a Guest. I also though that merely posting as GUEST was no longer allowed, but there you go, you've slipped through that particular net. As to content of the post dear GUEST: "Keith, I have found no bigotry or slurs in your posts." I think on examination you will find that statement is perfectly true, and it basically remains to be equally true whether it was written and posted by Keith A of Hertford aka "GUEST, Oakville"; or GUEST aka GUEST, "select whatever" aka "GUEST, Oakville. "I take it back." Now I do believe that if the poster Keith A of Hertford aka "GUEST, Oakville" discovered that he had posted something that was untrue and completely in error he would apologise and say exactly that. From the absence of a response from GUEST, aka "GUEST, select whatever" aka "GUEST, Oakville" providing an example of "Keith's" posts containing bigotry or slurs, we know that they would not even dream of doing such a thing, preferring instead to just morph into another GUEST identity and let his lies and slanders stand. "I am ashamed." Now I do believe that if the poster Keith A of Hertford aka "GUEST, Oakville" discovered that he had wrongfully accused somebody of something that they had in fact not done, he would feel sufficiently ashamed enough of his conduct to publicly apologise. GUEST aka "GUEST, select whatever" aka "GUEST, Oakville", on the other hand wouldn't know shame if it smacked him upside of the head with an 18lb sledge-hammer. I do believe that Keith A of Hertford did fully explain why he posted as he did. Oh and by the bye GUEST aka "GUEST, select whatever" aka "GUEST, Oakville", you still haven't had the guts or honesty to admit that you made a mistake - begone and good riddance to you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: GUEST,Comrac Date: 05 Dec 08 - 07:31 AM Sorry Keith A I don´t compare bombs, why are you saying the Loyalist ones are acceptable ? I see you are in Hertford, England. So possibly you understand then that loyalists have worked with your Crown forces in Ireland, north and south in murdering people for their faith. Maybe that is why your government is in no hurry to put the screws on them to disarm. Sorry I cannot speak for eirigi, so I have no idea what their plans are. You ask "Do the wishes of the majority matter to you?" I ask you, are you saying because I would like to see unity in Ireland and the end of British rule that I am not entitled to an opinion ? I see from your previous posts you defend the role of your government in Ireland and support the military role and defend them. Not knocking you mate, that is your prerogative. Faults can be found in both our nations, but you guys had the rule of law on your side (your law) and what they done to the Irish nation over 800 years is shameful. Your nation supported the Free French during the 39-45 war, were they terrorists or freedom fighters ? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Dec 08 - 07:23 AM Yes and I stand by it. I made Oakville tell the truth, except that the real Oakville felt no shame for the lies he told. When the victim of a lying attack by a Guest, why should I not fight back when the mods did nothing? Presumably you support the lying Oakville. Tell us why. (Please delete along with troll) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Dec 08 - 06:26 AM That is the trouble John. Try to talk about the wants and needs of people trying to live their lives right now, and someone immediately harks back to events of a hundred years ago! Since you bring it up, back then Sinn Fein, campaigning for home rule, could hardly get a vote and not even enough support to remain solvent. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: John MacKenzie Date: 05 Dec 08 - 05:55 AM Ah Keith, you are on a slippery slope there mate. If the wishes of the majority had really mattered to the British governments, Northern Ireland would not have come into being. Irish Home Rule, 1867-1921 |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Dec 08 - 03:46 AM Comrac, are these the loyalist bombs you refer to? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7761981.stm Nasty, but hardly comparable with the large roadside IEDs that have been planted to try to murder police officers. You are scathing of Sinn Fein and hopeful for the new group that you say is democratic, but will they be a challenge to Sinn Fein in a ballot? Do the wishes of the majority matter to you? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: John MacKenzie Date: 04 Dec 08 - 07:37 AM Well Comrac, while I agree wholeheartedly that Ireland should be united, I would like to know your answer to this question. If the UK and all it's appendages and institutions left the 6 counties tomorrow, what would happen? John 'XG' |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: GUEST,Comrac Date: 04 Dec 08 - 07:01 AM Thanks stigweard. There still remains a number of things that need addressed and are being ignored. This week we saw a number of primed bombs discovered in a loyalist area. The police said they belonged to a Loyalist paramilitary group. The first minister is yet to put pressure on loyalist paramilitary groups to disarm. Unionists just put the boot into republicans. I think it is safe to say Sinn Fein are now out of the equation as republicans. No one can believe how they were so manipulated over the past few years. Divide and conquer is what I call it. British Sinn Fein are being pressed at every corner and folding to every demand of unionism. Yes people are moving on, but to see Sinn Fein slap the backs of their buddies on the policing board is hard to watch. Policing is still an issue. The Special Branch and Special Powers act are still in place and the memory of their deeds towards the nationalist community are still fresh in the minds of many in this community. The world is changing, Korea and China are becoming world powers and Europe will at some point have to stand as one to compete. When this happens borders will fall. If people believe British Sinn Fein will ever fight to achieve unity of the island, they are misguided. At the Anglo- Irish meetings in Dublin and Belfast it is no longer Westminster that speaks on behalf of British interests in Ireland, it´s British Sinn Fein. Well after all they pay their wages and they sit in a British Assembly. British Sinn Fein are now being taken to task at community level by a new group called Eirigi. This group is democratic and although small in number I feel they are the only voice of Republicanism in Ireland today. To be honest, many have been sickened by the approach taken by British Sinn Fein and simply don´t care anymore. Just for a moment imagine the Labour Party in Britain turned it´s back on every principal it once stood for and implemented the policies of the BNP. That is what it amounts to. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Stu Date: 04 Dec 08 - 05:22 AM "Sinn Fein are not the British puppets in power, they are in fact distrusted and disliked by the English - apart from the very unelectable left wing elements of the English system." I'm not so sure about this - Mo Mowlem certainly didn't distrust or dislike SF and I'm not sure everyone in England thinks like this (speaking as a member of the unelectable left). Truth is, here in England we've been on the arse end of a 30-year propaganda campaign and a large number of people don't see the other side of the story (and until I came here and met people like Divis neither did I). What happened in the North was a war; I've known people from both sides of the conflict and there is no doubt that's how it was viewed. Building peace means talking to people whom you might not ordinarily have wanted to even look at, but there it is. Comrac: Take some heart that I think your story is beginning to get through to the British public at large. Recent films and articles in the papers are beginning to tell a side of the story people have not been able to engage with before, and this process will continue as the years progress. Now is the time for a peaceful route to a united Ireland, best of luck in achieving it. It will happen eventually. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Dec 08 - 04:31 AM A report from Queen's University, Belfast. The author of the report, Professor Orla Muldoon, from the University of Limerick, said some things had remained the same. "As you might expect, Catholics in Northern Ireland are more likely to describe themselves as being Irish, while Protestants are more likely to describe themselves as British," she said. Almost two-thirds of those who responded to the survey identified themselves as either British Protestants or Irish Catholics, she said. "There was, however, an increase in the number of people who identified themselves as being Northern Irish, with around one in four opting for this label, compared to around one fifth in previous surveys," she added. Within the Northern Irish group, about a third described themselves as being equally British and Irish. "They did not see Britishness or Irishness as being mutually exclusive and rejected the notion that these identities are opposites. "That indicates a shift away from the traditional national and religious identities that underpinned the Troubles," she said. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7760240.stm |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 17 Nov 08 - 08:03 PM Thank you, Comrac. Hope it helps to bring you peace. If everything else fails, rely on hope! Cheers DeG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: goatfell Date: 17 Nov 08 - 12:57 PM That is the differance between Scotland and Northern Ireland, I vote for a party that wants Scottish Freedom from Westminster, but unlike NI we theSNP don't want any weapons involoved, because we have seen the things that were going on in NI. weapons out of politics |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: GUEST,Comrac Date: 16 Nov 08 - 06:35 PM Interesting and well written account there David el Gnomo, thanks for sharing with us. After reading it the words of my old man came into my head, "There is always someone worse off than yourself". It is hard to believe what those people went through during the European war, and even worse to think it happened in living memory. Old men start them, young men die in them. Good nght and have a great week. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 16 Nov 08 - 06:13 PM Sorry to hear what you went through, Comrac. My Dad and his family came here from Poland after WW2. His parents were Zachary Polakow, from Kropotkin in Russia and Elizabeth Federow from Bialystok in Poland. They lived in Russia when my Dad and his younger sister were born. then, during one of Stalins purges, my grandad Zachary was interened in a prison camp for being a Russian Orthodox priest. Grandma Elizabeth was evicted from the house and told, as a foreign national, to leave Russia with not a penny to her name, a young son and a baby daughter. She made her way back to Poland, living off what she could find and sleeping in hegerows at night. They were eventualy reunited when Zachary was freed and joined her in Bialystok. Then came the Germans. They destroyed most of the city and turned where they lived into a gheto for Jews and dissidents. They somehow survived that until Rusia changed sides and threatened to annexe eastern Poland. Caught between two evils they could do nothing but leave their home, land and families to start a new life, first in Italy and then in England. The war that cost them everything was as a result of politics. The stupidity of politicians. Maybe even the idea of a united Europe with token borders? Did they blame anyone? The Russians? The Germans? Funily enough, no. They made a good life here. Zachary died of a lung disiese, possibly brought on by conditions in the Soviet labour camp, in 1964. Elizabeth lived until she was well into her 80s and loved England as her home. My Dad is, thankfully, still with us at 85 and has the most optimistic attitude I have seen on anyone. OK - The British did some awful things in Ireland. Don't forget it. You will never forget what happened to you. But until you can put it behind you, as millions before you have, and look to the future instead, what chance is there of peace? As for Sinn Fein. Well, they are politicians. A very easy scapegoat and one whom I suspect have done more good than you will ever admit to. Why replace the politicians who are local to you and did fight for your rights with a beurocratic and distant European model? Like I said before, whoever you vote for the government always gets in. Cheers DeG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: GUEST,Comrac Date: 16 Nov 08 - 05:53 PM Logic in your words WLD. At least our folk music won't let us down ! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 16 Nov 08 - 05:27 PM Comrac, do you want another generation going through what you suffered? Sinn Fein are not the British puppets in power, they are in fact distrusted and disliked by the English - apart from the very unelectable left wing elements of the English system. I suspect SF is making the deals it feels it has to make - the best it can make. Exploring the situation and, wresting as much power as the interstices of the system offer. And there many such interstices in any democratic system. In truth, was the armed struggle doing anything except screw up peoples lives? The first time in England we knew that SF represented more than a small outlaw element (that's what the media told us) was when Bobby Sands won that election. There was no arguing with the results of the democratic process. Democratic process proves the point much more potently than the bomb and the bullet. Life is a disillusioning business. I gave most of my life to trying to find some small place in English folk music. Folk music rampant is stuff that people don't watch on BBC2, BBC4, or listen to very much. Dance tunes that people don't dance to. Songs with tunes that no one in the street knows, with choruses that bore more thoroughly than the bloody boring verses. My struggle was a failure. It cost me much more than I can ever admit - moneywise, relationship wise, family wise, every bleeding which way.... at least you seem to have a movement with members you can relate to. If you take up arms, theres no guarantee of winning. That's where bravery comes in. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: GUEST,Comrac Date: 16 Nov 08 - 04:47 PM Just for a moment imagine you felt in your heart you were prepared to take uparms for what you believe in. Everyone in the community you live supports this cause. You open the Republican News and Sinn Fein tells you what has been going on in every nationalist community in the North of Ireland and how British occupation is wrong and it's police force are responsible for murder in nationalist areas and the unionist stormont government must be smashed. You are 22 years of age and become involved. You receive a prison sentence of 16 years. You join the dirty protest to obtain Political Status in the H blocks. You don't leave your cell for five years (you receive no visits from friends or family). That was a long time ago, you gave your youth, your freedom and a relationship to that cause you believed in. Now Sinn Fein don't want to know you, they call you a dinosaur. They have become part of the very system you fought against and they admired you for, they now sit on a British policing board and tell nationalists to welcome these police officers into your life, even join them. Yes the very same police officers that held you for seven days and tortured you into signing a confession for things you had nothing to do with, (the word of two senior officers was enough to give you seven years for membership.How can you support these very same officers who searched your home, Spat on your childs pillow, passed a happy 30 minutes together searching your daughters bedrooms while they were present and not allowed to leave, and called them and your wife whores. Sinn Fein don't want ex-prisoners in the party,they want "clean skins", great to see young people with degrees doing well for themselves in the party, but they are not republicans, and have no idea of recent history. Peace will come to Ireland, but it will come through a united Europe with token borders, not at the hands of the British, or their "puppets in power" British Sinn Fein. The fight is not out of the Irish nation, it's like a long term relationship you have been in and just found out the person you thought you knew and trusted,turned out to be a lying, cheating bastard. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Nov 08 - 02:05 PM Or the "Irish Union" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 16 Nov 08 - 01:29 PM 'so-called republicans ' that's an unworthy smear. Gerry Adams and his like donated the best years of their youth to internmant camps like Long Kesh. I am sorry to hear that they are not widely respected amongst Republicans. English people feel bitter about all the stuff that went down when he was whatever he was for the provisional IRA. so he would seem to be enjoying the worst of both worlds. Whilst I am sure that there are so called protestant Loyalists quite as intractable and unpleasant as you say, I have met several whilst running folk clubs and giving guitar lessons who have been really nice guys. the nice guys must be in there somewhere, on both sides - and they should make the agreements, then send the arseholes packing. A United Ireland is something worth trying for. perhaps thats what they should call the new country, in remembrance of all the ones who never got to see it:- United Ireland. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: goatfell Date: 16 Nov 08 - 12:21 PM well I'll be civil and say thasme of the things that I said were wrong, but as I said that the IRA haven't any proof only hearsay, so why can't people not give a simple answer to that, I mean it doesn't take someone either with a camera or cine camera to take photies/flim of the procceddings does it, I mean until ALL terrorists groups in not only Ireland but all over the world we can't be certain that this really took place, I mean I can turn around a say that I jumped over the moon or I have swim the English channel, and just because some person says 'aye I was there went it happened. you just can't believe it. I'm not saying that they didn't/did destory their weapons but until there is soild proof, I take that staement with a pinch of salt. that's all Tom Hamilton |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:57 AM Hey people - How can we expect peace in the province if we can't achieve it here? No need for insults from either side of the debate please. If you cannot be civil then please say nothing! Interesting points about Sinn Fein changing their stance. Now, where else have I seen that recently. Let me see, Hmmmm, Ah - New Labour! That's it. The trouble is with political parties is that is what they do. Anything to gain power. And whoever you vote for, the government always gets in:-( I also think it is pretty much the case, as I said over a year ago, that no-one wants to take on these problems. Southern Ireland is basking in Euro culture, why would they want to take on these problems? England certainly don't want to rule a province that costs more to police than anywhere else. Maybe self governance is the answer? As to encouraging the British government to get the Unionist parties to disarm - Many of us have already tried Comrac. I did not get a reply from my MP, but neither did I expect one. Where gangs of criminals from all parts of the UK can carry arms with impunity why do you think that Whitehall will teat the criminals in the north of Ireland any diferetly? Now, do we have a picture of what the peace is like yet? Tentative to say the least? What is anyone doing about it? Cheers DeG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: goatfell Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:28 AM still you haven't answered the question he the IRA destroyed their weapons, as I say all humans on this planet lie. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: goatfell Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:26 AM oh just one final thing, that there will never be peace in Ireland when you have dickheads like you |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: goatfell Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:25 AM Well the reply to that is I just hate Republican/loyist terroist groups, and please I'll wait for your strightjacket, at lest I have the guts to become a member why don't you, or you like the terroists groups just a coward. ah but men can lie, God doesn't, and I hope for your sake the Loylist don't find out where you or your family live or find out if that is your real name or not, maybe it isn't. but then who is to say that you're lying Tom |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: GUEST,Comrac Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:07 AM Goatfell, please use your energy into getting the loyalists to disarm. It was me mentioned loyalists putting a picture of PIRA disarming on their Christmas card, no one said you did. Are you saying the PIRA did not disarm ? are you saying they still hold arms ? Is the words of those respected individuals present at the destruction not enough for you ? Better still, if you have nothing constructive to add, why not go and get ready for your tablets. Or have an early night in your straightjacket. Bye bye. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: goatfell Date: 16 Nov 08 - 10:44 AM http://englishrussia.com/images/estonian_customs/1.jpg this is the russians doing it, and I had a look for photos in the image part of Google and I put in the words IRA WEAPONS DESTROYED and there was none, just hearsay. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: goatfell Date: 16 Nov 08 - 10:33 AM or else you can make a film of them being destryed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: goatfell Date: 16 Nov 08 - 10:31 AM and who metioned anything about Christmas cards because I didn't |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: goatfell Date: 16 Nov 08 - 10:30 AM yes there can, just take a photo of them being distroyed I mean, a pile of them and then another one being distroyed, I mean they can do it with cars and other things then why not weapens |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: GUEST,Comrac Date: 16 Nov 08 - 06:22 AM Sinn Fein, CIRA, RIRA and eirigi are brewing to face eachother down at street level. It's at a point were someone will either get whacked or die as a result of a street fight and then it will boil over. Republicans cannot accept so-called republicans sitting on the policing board and working as British ministers. It is too bitter a pill for many to swallow. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 16 Nov 08 - 06:11 AM 'It won't go back to war, but the fear of republican facing republican in a fight is a reality.' please explain. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Peace in Ireland? From: GUEST,Comrac Date: 16 Nov 08 - 05:36 AM Unionists will NEVER fully accept nationalists in government. The term "I wouldn't have a catholic about the place" still holds firm in many places. The armed struggle is over, that is fact. There are a lot of sore republicans out there who placed their faith in Sinn Fein only to see them do a complete U turn on just about everything they once stood for. It won't go back to war, but the fear of republican facing republican in a fight is a reality. It really is very fucked up. |