The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 04:54 AM

Manitas,Yes ,but by excluding women [being male only],it means women are denied the right to dance with a particular team,should they approach a male only team,however good a dancer they are,their application is not going to be considered on merit.
consequently Male only sides are losing the oppurtunity to include good female dancers,and possibly improve the standard of their dancing.
I am not a Morris dancer,that does not stop me from enjoying morris danced well,.
earlier in this thread I was asked why it concerned me as I was not a Morris dancer, [what a weak argument],that is like saying if you are not a singer or musician,you cant appreciate good singing and playing.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 04:21 AM

Morris teams don't choose their members. Dancers (or would-bne dancers) choose the team.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 10:55 PM

Greg Stephens, The Morris ring does not cause me a problem.[Iam not a female morris dancer]
In every other form of traditional music,judgements are made on merit,people are employed regardless of sex,they are employed because of their abilities,.
A very good argument, could be made that male morris sides,are not getting the best dancers,because they are using gender as a way of choosing their members.,
At the moment that is their prerogative,but it doesnt mean That the public are necessarily enjoying Morris dancing of the highest standard as a result.
THE Morris Federation has among its aims the maintaining and improvement of standards.
The Morris Ring,states that it wants to encourage Morris dancing, preserve and maintain the history and traditions of Morris Dancing.
Open Morris, believe in morris dancing for all,and that Morris should be fun.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: GUEST, Mikefule
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 01:57 PM

The Morris Ring is a private members' organisation, and anyone who disagrees with it, or who has an unfavourable opinion of it, is entitled to choose not to join.

It is an umbrella organisation for Morris dance clubs that are all male. That is for historical reasons, and remains the case largely for social reasons, and because the pace of change in an organisation devoted to a traditional activity is likely to be slow.

My own team, Dolphin, has been in the Ring for many years. We get a lot out of it, not just meeting other clubs at events all over the country and abroad, but also as a source of information, publications and equipment. The Ring has massive archives of photographs and film, and has published or facilitated the publication of many books, tapes, CDs and videos, all of which help to keep the morris alive.

As a member of a Ring side, I enjoy the "all boys together" atmosphere of a Ring feast. It's puerile, sometimes, but it's fun.

But I have only come across one or two so-called "misogynists" in 24 years in the Morris. And one of those has a wife who dances in a step-clog team that is closely allied to his own Cotswold side.

Dolphin have a long history of association with women's and mixed sides. Several of our members are or have been married to dancers from other North West and Cotswold sides. We regularly dance at mixed events. We organise events and invite mixed and women's sides.

It simply isn't an issue, and hasn't been for 20 years or more.

There is no more misogyny in the Ring than in any other group of men with a similar age profile. The Ring doesn't seek to discourage or prevent women from dancing. I have been to several Ring events where women have been at the top table.

I see more prejudice against the Ring than I find within it.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 01:31 PM

If it is not possible to discuss something controversial,This forum would be very boring,.
Through discussion it maybe possible to change and alter opinions,and learn.
if you want to discuss the Morris federation,Start your own thread and discuss it.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's hea
From: treewind
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 12:59 PM

"I started this thread ,to see what peoples opinions were,quite a normal thing for a discussion forum."

I call bullshit.
Why did you not start a thread enquiring with equally wide-eyed innocence about the state of health of the Morris Federation, for example. Or Open Morris? Why only one organisation?

Richard's right of, course. As with several other threads you started, the sound of distant axes being ground is deafening. I'm really not sure what the agenda is in this case. Other than standard troll motivation - pick on something controversial and watch the fun as everybody picks fights with each other.

I won't be fooled again.

Anahata

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's hea
From: treewind
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 11:39 AM

Bad Border?
Send'em all to a Shropshire Bedlams practice.
That should wake them up!

Anahata

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 11:13 AM

good point, morris -ey.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's hea
From: Morris-ey
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 11:11 AM

The only thing I object to is Morris dancing done badly. And so much is done badly by so many. I don't care who does it – male, female, mixed, provided it is danced well.

If I hate anything it is bad Border - the dance of the lazy and the inept who think all you need to do is black your face, wear rags and shout a lot. Bad Border – the easy option; Bad Border – the style that is displacing all others.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: skipy
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 10:17 AM

I'm going to form "Crossover Morris Federation Ring" where men can cance morris dressed as ladies!
Skipy

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 10:06 AM

There is no hidden agenda ,no axe being ground,neither have i sneered at anyone,I have stated earlier my views on Morris dancing,End of story,.
Treewind,I started this thread ,to see what peoples opinions were,quite a normal thing for a discussion forum.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: greg stephens
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 09:35 AM

Come on, Captain Birdseye.The vast body of people in this country do not support Manchester United, do not buy Arctic Monkeys records, do not live in London and never take holidays on narrow boats. Yet all these minority activities seem to carry on uninterrupted and perfectly successfully.
If you wish to make a point about the Morris Ring, or members of Pigeon Fanciers clubs, or any opther minorty grouping, then spit it out, don't really on hints and sneers.The Morris Ring happens to exist to promote an activity both you and I have no particular wish to get involved with. This does not cause me any problem, but it apparently does to you(I say apparently, because all your comments are slightly veiled).So, if you have a problem, what exactly is it?

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: GUEST,Strad
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 09:30 AM

Is women dancing Morris the reason for all this wet weather??

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: Snuffy
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 08:56 AM

Does this mean that the position of Waitrose is not healthy, because there is a sizeable majority that either prefer other supermarkets, or can not reach a branch? And what of Sky TV? Esso? Barclays? Mercedes?

Not having over 50% of the market does not mean the body concerned is failing and near to collapse.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 08:54 AM

Yes, it has bothered me too that there is a hint of a hidden agenda, an unclear subtext, and possibly the distant sound of an axe being ground - but we can not yet see or hear what it is all about.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: GUEST,Neovo
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 08:22 AM

Did I say you had made inflamatory statements? I can't recall naming names.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's hea
From: treewind
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:49 AM

Why does the "health" of one of the morris organisations concern you so much?

Anahata

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 07:22 AM

Neovo,noin my opinion its not healthy,because there is a sizeable majority ,that either prefer not to be in it ,or are excluded from it.
At no point have I made inflammatory statements.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: GUEST,Redwing
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 06:52 AM

Nice sentiments, Neovo. Sometimes I feel it's a shame that the our varied forms of dance all got filed under the banner of "Morris" because it has led to "rules" which may (emphasise "may") apply to one form of morris being forced on another one to which has no link whatsoever and hence no relevance. I also tend to suspect that the "men only" dictate that the Ring championed had more to do with the attitudes and preferences at the time that Cecil Sharp was around collecting the dances and reviving them with teams of university students than true "tradition". But that's just my gut feeling.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: GUEST,Neovo
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 06:13 AM

I'm not sure that membership numbers is the same thing as health. If those teams that are members support the aims and philosophy of the organisation, attend events and enjoy each other's company etc is it not healthy?

If we're talking about the Ring's attitude to women dancing, which we seem to be, as a member of two NW women's teams I have noticed over the last few years a softening of attitude and Ring sides enjoying the company of groups of all types from the other two organisations. These things will take time and inflammatory comments from whatever point of view will not bring change any quicker. The Ring sides that won't dance on the same bill as women will find themselves invited to fewer and fewer events though.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's hea
From: MBSLynne
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 06:12 AM

Yep, I agree too. There's definitely something intrinsically masculine about some morris dances and the way some sides dance them....and very nice too. As I said before, there's room for both, or all. Nor do I think any individual side should be forced to accept the opposite sex into their side. We need some all-male sides, we need all-female sides and if people enjoy dancing with mixed sides, then we need them too. There's surely no good reason that the different types can't perform in the same places at the same time though?

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: Jess A
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 05:37 AM

"and I have heard females express the opinion that there's something about morris done well by fit young men that creates an excitement that just doesn't happen with women doing it. "

absolutely agree. I love dancing morris and think there's room for everybody to do it whatever way they can, but if I'm in the audience then I'd rather watch a fit men only side than a women's side however good. Sides which currently spring to mind for cotswold are Dog Rose, Hammersmith, and Bristol...
....but I'd rather watch a good women's team or a good mixed team than a half arsed bunch of fat old men ambling around & not getting off the ground, naming no names :)

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: LesB
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 05:39 PM

Most of us now have bellies that dance of their own accord.
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's hea
From: treewind
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 05:26 PM

"the hooligan aggression that goes with sexual competition (which is what is being ritualised, isn't it?) in the whacking of their sticks."

I'm glad somebody has raised that subject at last. Yes, there is a lot of that, especially in Border morris but in Cotswold too, when it's done right, and I have heard females express the opinion that there's something about morris done well by fit young men that creates an excitement that just doesn't happen with women doing it. You can't ignore that aspect. (Women dancing Swaggering Boney? does not compute)

Because of that, it's important that some good all-male sides remain, though I doubt that many Morris Ring teams have got the right stuff any more, unless they have succeeded in recruiting a lot more younger dancers.

An example: Hammersmith Morris Men were in the ring, until they got thrown out for reasons I won't detail here, except to say they were carrying the time-honoured tradition of misrule a bit too far for the Ring's delicate sensibilities. But they remain an all-male side, because they know that if you have a mixed team you tend to recruit more and more women and fewer men, and you end up with an all-female team if you're not careful, because your average young English bloke doesn't want to dance at all anyway and thinks it's "girly". But if you have an all male team and you dance well and with enough masculine vigour you can recruit young men, and Hammersmith did regularly, because they can make it look good in a macho and blokish sort of way. A few years ago I was going to practices and danceouts with Hammersmith Morris for while, and and I know how much effort they put into their practice sessions, not to mention the post-practice drinking. The epitome of "work hard, play hard" - and I found it bewildering, exciting and exhausting.

Now, it's not that Hammersmith disapprove of women dancing morris - they like nothing better than to invite female and mixed teams to their pub tours and dancing weekends, far more fun for obvious reasons... but they prefer to keep their own dancing as men's stuff, and nobody accuses them of prancing about like fairies, not even when dancing Adderbury Sweet Jenny Jones.

(disclaimer: I haven't seen Smiffs recently. I may be out of date - I hope they haven't got old and decrepit in the last 10 years)

Anahata
(by the way, do any men do belly dancing? I just wondered....)

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 05:04 PM

morris ring has approx 152 members,open morris has approx 92 members,the morris federation has approx 405 members,so 497 sides do not wish/[or are excluded from] to be in the morris ring.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: Penny S.
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 04:51 PM

I went on a course on teaching folk dance some years ago, and failed to have a discussion about two issues. One was women's morris. I was told, shortly, that women have their own ceremonial dances. I was not given any information about how to get in touch with any groups doing them.

The other was having boys dancing together in folk dances, which was verboten, without explanation. As it is stated in the books of the EFDS on the subject, the reason is obvious. Not to me, with a class overheavy on the male side, doing the sort of dances which down't demand delicate hand holding.

The people concerned couldn't see the paradox.

Then they taught all of us a sword dance of the knot forming variety.

Penny

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 04:30 PM

I once played electric guitar for a morris side at a morris ring day in 1985 or so. I received many bigotted looks and comments - quite uncalled for.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 03:30 PM

Viewed from the perspective of performance rather than politics or promiscuity (which, to be honest, I might, if my memory serves me, prefer) there is a definite difference in the way most women's border sides that I have seen dance from the the way the men's sides dance. The former tend to go "tap tap" politely whereas the latter tend to display more of the hooligan aggression that goes with sexual competition (which is what is being ritualised, isn't it?) in the whacking of their sticks.

But there again few garland dancers convey the idea of the come-hither display that I believe to be the heart of garland (well, what do you thing the hoops with the little red bow at the top middle are supposed to symbolise?) and perishing few female Irish dancers convey the curiously Roman Catholic tension between restraint and sexual display that sems to me to be the key to their art.

And I think I've only ever seen one molly dancer who conveyed the insanity and threat (something about the unrecognisable in confrontation with the unforgivable), the ranting psychotic nature of that form. You sometimes see it in the eyes of the kings for a day in the urban street, up on speed and feeling invincible until the comedown. You don't often see it in dancers concentrating on their steps and moves. The information that follows is second hand so I hope it is right. Oddly, he was an East Anglian lad, of several generations, in a side mostly composed of students or recent graduates. He alone in the side had not been to university and I strongly felt that he alone was in touch with genuine roots..

That's the trouble with traditions, the aspic can get in the way of the true flavour....

Or was it the true flavour?

In case you were wondering, I'm sober.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's hea
From: Greg B
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 02:06 PM

Sounds to me as if some of the lads place authenticity over
having a bit of crumpet with their ale.

Misplaced values.

I once squeezed out some tunes for an all-female Morris
side which was quite keen to have male musicians.

Scheduling conflicts prevented a long-term relationship
with the side, whose musicians seemed none the less to be
'tired but happy.' Nutting girls and all.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: Jess A
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 01:45 PM

hehe I think if the boys want to play I'd rather watch from a safe distance :) and dance of course!

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: ClaireBear
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 01:45 PM

I've often thought, if there weren't already an adequacy of morris confederations, it might be fun to start one for mixed teams called "The Morris Mõbius" -- whose slogan would be, of couse, "We're all on the same side."

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's hea
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 01:39 PM

I agree about Bromyard - indeed Annie Smith of Sheffield City Morris was probably the first female member of a Morris team ever to do Bromyard and that was not all that long ago. They were not sure whether to give her a ticket or not because she was female and part of a morris team. (Drummer).

And I understand you also are going in for the jig competition!! Good luck to you and your musician whoever he may be.

Now, how are you about all-male punk rock heavy thrash metal bands?

Should they not allow women in? :-)

Dave

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: Jess A
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 01:30 PM

As said I think elsewhere in the above thread, there seem to be a fair few individuals and/or individual sides who are anti-women dancing the morris (I've been on the receiving end of this a few times but, to be fair, not often, while dancing with Pecsaetan).

The Morris Ring itself as an organisation certainly doesn't seem to have a problem the whole thing in my experience - although we are an all female Cotswold side they've been helpful, supportive, and downright complimentary when we've had contact with them. And so for that matter have all the Ring sides we've ever had anything to do with. We've danced out with lots of them at different events and they've pretty much all been lovely and friendly too.

I wish I could understand what the individuals who are against women dancing are objecting to, but I've never had a discussion with anybody about it where I could detect much of a thread of logic in their argument, and when it comes down to it I can't bring myself to care that much. I love the morris and I'm going to carry on dancing it regardless.

I am awaiting Bromyard with a certain degree of amusement, where, to my knowledge, Pecsaetan will be the first women's cotswold side ever to dance at the festival. Hope we'll go down well.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: GUEST,Redwing
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 07:40 AM

Only a couple of years ago I witnessed a women's NW team - and a very, very good one from the North West itself who have already been mentioned - subjected to some extreme rudeness from a men's "North West" team from the midlands who were Ring stalwarts with a very anti women stance. I was appalled at this, it did morris no good at all.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: Bernard
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 06:59 AM

For what it's worth... members of Bolton Folk Dance club and 'Haywain' ceilidh band were amongst those who re-formed Horwich Prize Medal Morris Men in the early 1970s, and their wives/partners were miffed about not being able to join.

A women's garland team was formed as something of a protest, which went on to become Rivington Morris - who founded the Women's Morris Federation.

As I was a member of Haywain, and we played for their first appearances during some of our ceilidhs, so I suppose I'd qualify as being one of their first musicians...!

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's hea
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 06:56 AM

Anyone want to see the true face of Morris Dancing.

Go and watch Greg and Derek Wood at the Jig competition at Sidmouth.

Fantastic father and son duo. (Father cycles the Tour de France hill climbs for a hobby and won Mortimer's "Oaken Thigh" competition).

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: TheSnail
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 06:21 AM

MBSLynne

I'm not sure it would be great to have men in garland sides!

Really?

http://www.coconutters.co.uk/photoalbum2/gallery.htm

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's hea
From: MBSLynne
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 06:08 AM

We're really talking about two different things here.....the rules and regs and health of the Morris Ring, and the attitudes of individual sides and individual dancers. Personally I think there's room for all and they should accept each other's decisions and preferences as far as membership of their sides goes.

Simon you're right about the age thing. The side with which my son dances used to be very dubious about dancing out with women's sides but had little choice, since the garland side I danced with was formed of and by their wives! Nowadays said morris die has become a lot younger, on average with many of the members aged between 15 and 30. They have also become noticeably less bothered by the women thing.

Love Lynne
Just a quci thought....though there is no actual restriction, as far as I know, on men dancing with women's sides, I'm not sure it would be great to have men in garland sides! To each his own.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 05:38 AM

Malcolm,thankyou for your help.
IanC,Thankyou for your information.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: IanC
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 05:22 AM

Relations between the 3 organisations are actually pretty good.

From the point of view of insurance, they do things jointly anyway.

The ring will eventually go co-ed ... there's just a few old farts resisting it at the moment. The Ring sword team I dance with ocassionaly dances with women dancers in the set (and Rapper is a bit of a contact sport).

I agree with Malcolm that all 3 organisations thrive pretty well. I doubt many new sides will join the ring though until they change their rules.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's hea
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 04:42 AM

DID YOU KNOW that an anagram of "Prime Minister Gordon Brown" is "Tepid, worn, boring morrismen"?

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 04:39 AM

Simon Care, MBS lynne,has given example of morris ring sides refusing to dance out with a woman garland side.
They may not be forbidden,but the attitudes of some of their members[Lynnes example] Indicates a lot.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 07:26 PM

Well, Dick; if you are already sufficiently informed to pronounce upon the accuracy or otherwise of my guess (you have, after all, made plenty of your own), then you didn't really need to start the thread, did you? I'd suggest that you contact the relevant organisations directly if you want a detailed breakdown of their membership figures over the last 20 years. I have provided links to their websites; you can find contact details there. Do let us know what they have to say, won't you. It would be mildly interesting, though whether it would be as gratifyingly controversial as you seem to hope remains to be seen.

Meanwhile, all three websites have lists of current member and associate teams that you can look at if you are interested. That won't tell you much about the state of play 20 years ago, when many of those teams didn't exist, but you may find it easier to start at the present and work back rather than the other way around. Remember that a lot of teams are started up by young enthusiasts and fold after a few years as work and family responsibilities (not to mention health and fitness issues) intervene, so a proper statistical analysis will require quite a lot of work. I'm sure that it would be a useful exercise if you are up for it.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: LesB
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 06:40 PM

Simon, correct me if i'm wrong, but ring sides with female musicians can't attend ring meetings, (unless they leave their musician at home).
Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: melodeonplayer
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 06:05 PM

Sorry, maybe i can be arsed.

The Morris Ring is just an umbrella organization that decides to have "men only sides". - Get over it!!!
Mens Sides with female musicians are allowed membership.
Ring sides are not forbidden from dancing out with womens sides.

If i wanted to start an organization for Morris sides aged between 16 and 40 then would it be any different......I think not.

All three morris organizations work very well together on many aspects and even ran a joint day of dance this year . I was there with my team, Moulton and we danced out with many good teams from all three groups.

cheers
simon care

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: Alan Day
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 05:48 PM

I had to contact the Morris Ring about six months ago with regards to recordings by a particular concertina artist thay have the rights for.
Firstly I found initial communication very difficult, the link above would have been very useful, but I went down many routes before I managed to get the contact number and proper Email address. I found the organisation very helpfull ,very cooperative and willing to offer advice.I will be in touch with them again in the future.
Al

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: melodeonplayer
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 05:35 PM

I wanted to say "what a load of ill-informed bollocks" but i really can't be arsed!!!!!are

Simon Care

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 04:16 PM

If anyone can provide details of the Morris rings membership 20 YEARS AGO,and its membership today,I might get an answer.
Malcolm your statement[I doubt if there is a lot of movement of membership between the three]is uninformed guesswork ,If it isnt and you are well informed,I would appreciate your time in passing on these membership figures.
Marje,I agree with you,but would go further and say that I enjoy seeing women dancing the morris,and mixed morris sides,and men dancing the Morris,if the dancers are good dancers.

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 03:48 PM

This is really all very old news. Don't mistake the attitudes of individuals for those of organisations. If an individual team chooses not to dance with another, that is up to its members; the Ring is just an umbrella organisation and has, so far as I know, no rules concerning that. It merely restricts its membership to all-male teams. Who does or doesn't get invited to dinner afterwards is presumably a decision made by the individuals organising the event.

Morris isn't my subject, though inevitably I know a lot of people of both sexes who are involved in it. Dick may find the following helpful in forming an opinion based on what is going on today rather than a quarter of a century ago:

The Morris Ring was founded in 1934, the original member teams being all from the Revival. The Women's Morris Federation was founded in 1975. In 1980 it decided to admit mixed as well as women-only teams, and in 1982 became open to all. 'Women's' was dropped from the name in 1983. Meanwhile (1979), a third organisation, Open Morris, was founded to counter the single-sex policies of the other two.

All three organisations continue in, so far as I know, perfectly good health; and on perfectly good speaking terms with each other. As (again, so far as I know) the only national organisation until 1975, the Ring naturally lost members to Open Morris and, later, the Federation; but over the last 20 years everything seems to have settled down and I doubt if there is a lot of movement of membership between the three.

Given that ceremonial dance teams (whatever they dance) typically have a quite short lifespan and I would guess (though others will have to confirm or deny that guess) that the majority of teams currently dancing were founded less than 20 years ago in any case, then if they have joined any of the umbrella organisations, they will probably have gone directly to whichever one best suited them (or may indeed be attached to more than one).

http://www.themorrisring.org/

http://www.morrisfed.org/

http://www.open-morris.com/

Subject: RE: The Morris Ring - know this organization's health?
From: Marje
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 03:20 PM

What I find far from fine is when, as Lynne points out, some Ring sides will not even dance at or attend an event when other mixed or female sides are attending. That, to me, is an unacceptable and insulting attitude towards others who dance the morris. There's no parallel here with, say, choirs, who generally enjoy hearing other choirs with a different gender profile and sharing big musical events together.

I'm not sure quite what answer Dick was hoping for when he asked the question, but it would not trouble me at all to learn that the Ring sides were declining in popularity and on their way to social extinction. Unless they change their attitudes, that's what they deserve.

Marje