Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Big Tim Date: 22 Oct 01 - 04:19 PM Martin, I have a copy of the original! Only cost me IR £15 recently: try Cathair Books website.(Dublin) |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 22 Oct 01 - 06:53 AM Big Tim So she did - I have copy of the reprint edition of the journal and can suddenly see a photograph of the woman in my minds eye...! I think there was a tribute to her on her death. Regards |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Big Tim Date: 22 Oct 01 - 04:59 AM Charlotte Milligan-Fox (1864-1916)jointly edited, with Herbert Hughes, the early issues of the Journal of the Irish Folksong Society, first issued in London in 1904. She has an entry in "Dict of Ulster Biography" (1993). |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: MartinRyan Date: 22 Oct 01 - 04:50 AM Alice Alice (!) L. Milligan and Charlotte Milligan Fox were daughters of Seaton F Milligan a North of Ireland Methodist businessman and antiquary. Charlotte, in particular, was a collector - she publisehd Annnals of the irish Harpers based on Buntings collection. Alice was more literary - and more politically involved. Wrote plays, poetry essays etc. Whicch just leaves the question of "E. Milligan"! Regards p.s.Source is the Dictionary of Irish Biography. |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Alice Date: 19 Oct 01 - 09:35 PM On a web page of John McCormack's recordings, I found other references to "Milligan":
Foggy Dew, The ("A' down the hill I went one morn...")(E. Milligan/C. Milligan Fox, arr. Spencer Clay)B 12767-1 (3 January 1913)
By the Shortcut to the Rosses (Nora Hopper/Old Irish Air, arr. C. Milligan Fox) BVE 41546-1, -2 (13 January 1928)
So there is an E. Milligan and a C. Milligan Fox...
I also found this reference on a web page for poems by Ethna Carbery (Anna MacManus), Click Here who died in 1902 : "Mrs. C. MILLIGAN FOX is arranging to have the greater number of the poems in book fitted with airs from Petrie's collection." Alice
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Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Alice Date: 19 Oct 01 - 08:51 PM Zena, Thanks so much! Yes, I'm aware of the Anner, from another song, "She Lived Beside The Anner". "Sighed" fits, too... thank you. This version of lyrics recorded by John McCormack has "Milligan-Clay" next to it on the cover. The piano accompaniment was by Spencer Clay, so I am assuming the lyrics may have been by "Milligan" and the arrangement by Spencer Clay. I've searched but have not found "Milligan". Anyone know? Alice |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 19 Oct 01 - 04:25 PM Big Tim Wouldn't surprise me if that "P O Neill" was by way of a freudian slip! I'll see if I can check it elsewhere. Regards |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Airto Date: 19 Oct 01 - 09:56 AM There is a river Anner in Co. Tipperary. Sounds to me like you've got it right. |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE FOGGY DEW From: GUEST,Zena Date: 18 Oct 01 - 08:51 PM Here is a set of lyrics I found at http://www.blackbeers.rdsor.ro/foggydew.html. I don't know what their source is. This version is very similar to that sung by McCormack. Where McC has a different word, I've placed it after the one in the text separated by a slash (eg. word in text/McC's word). Alice, I think your awkward 'spied' in the last verse is in fact 'sighed'. My version here says 'signed' but I think that's just a typo. Also, in this version there's a line in the first verse given as 'Sweet Anner's verdant side'. It certainly sounds like this is what McC says, but it doesn't mean anything to me. Does anyone else have any ideas about this line? If anyone has any info on the history of this song before 1913, it would be greatly appreciated :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A down the hill I went one morn,
Go hide your blooms ye roses red
A down the hill I went at/one morn, Zena |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Big Tim Date: 10 Oct 01 - 02:10 PM According to Soodlum's "Irish Ballad Book" (which is admittedly full of mistakes) the song was written by Father P.O'Neill (not Charles). Can anyone verify the priest's name accurately and does anyone know anything about him. It's a great song. |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: JedMarum Date: 10 Oct 01 - 09:51 AM Mudcatter, Guinnesschick (aka Karen) sings this song beautifully with Eammons Kitchen. It's a great song and always pleases audiences, who rarely understand much of the history behind the song (Eammons Kitchen plays in the US). |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: GUEST,Irish Bard Date: 10 Oct 01 - 09:35 AM Hi Folks, a few months ago I had to write an essay on the subject "The Foggy Dew". Leprechaun, if you give me your e-mail address I will send this essay to you. There's lot of information on 12 pages. It's about the song "The Foggy Dew" and the easter Rising Dublin, 1916. SO if you are interested in reading it leave your e-mail address here or write to drzonk@web.de Greetings The Irish Bard |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: GUEST,Born Again Scouser Date: 09 Oct 01 - 06:44 PM This is one of those great songs you never seem to hear of any more. I first heard it on an LP my brother gave me for Christmas in 1969. The LP was 'A Touch Of The Blarney' by Noel Murphy and as it was on the 'Music For Pleasure' (!) label I assume it was a couple of years old even then. I played it again a couple of weeks ago. Murphy always seems to me to be one of those people who didn't quite get the timing right. If you listen to the record now (and that song in particular) it's as moving and as powerful and as powerful as anything I've heard by Christy Moore. Like Christy, Murphy lived in England at the time. unlike Christy, he stayed there. By the late 60/early 70s he was probably the biggest draw on the folk circuit in England, mainly becuse of his reputation as a hilarious stand-up entertainer. I'm guessing now and I'm probably wrong but I think it would have been a lot harder for Murphy to establish himself as a purveyor of the sort of political material Christy became known for in the mid-late 70s even if he had wanted to (it's perhaps not so easy to sing about the evils of the British Army when your next-door neighbours son might be a British squaddie). So Christy became the darling of the Left and Murphy ended up playing to an ever-decreasing audience of golfers and piss-artists who didn't wnat to hear him sing so much as see him falling about playing the pissed-up paddy until Shane McGowan came along and stole his act. Last I heard he was living in the West Country having moved away (not before time) from the crawlers, no-marks and talentless hangers-on that had come to comprise most of what was left of the folk scene in West London and the Richmond and Twickenham area in particular (not you, Derek). I still think he's got a great album in him somewhere. Someone ought to do something about that... |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE FOGGY DEW (several songs) From: DonMeixner Date: 08 Oct 01 - 11:26 PM Here is everything I could find on the Foggy Dew Some of the Songs Titled FOGGY DEW
'Twas down the glen one Easter morn
Right proudly high over Dublin town
Oh, the night fell black and the rifles crack
'Twas England bade our Wild Geese go
But the bravest fell, and the requiem bell
Ah, back through the glen I rode again, --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Over the hills I went one day, a lovely maid I spied
Over the hills I went one morn, a-singing I did go. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, a wan cloud was drawn o'er the dim weeping dawn
But the sudden sun kissed the cold, cruel mist --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I was a bachelor, I lived all alone
One night as I lay on my bed
All through the first part of that night
Supposing you should have a child
I loved that girl with all my heart
Again I am a bachelor; I live with my son --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I was in my prenticeship
And so my true love and me,
You've done the thing to me last night,
Now he's married her and taen her hame, Don |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: GUEST,Ryan Date: 08 Oct 01 - 11:06 PM It's my understanding that "Sud-el-Bar" is actually 'Sedd el Bahr' and was indeed part of the Gallipoli campaign. |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: GUEST,Conor Date: 15 Jun 01 - 10:29 AM In the North of Ireland (around Belfast at least) The word Hun is often used as a derogitory (sp) term for a protestant, in a similar vein to Taig or Fenian when describing a catholic... |
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Require Words and Guitar Chor From: Sandy Paton Date: 29 Dec 99 - 01:31 AM Since Brian mentioned it was for an "Irish Night" that he needed the song, I thought he might be looking for the old rebel song in which "the English huns, with their long range guns, sailed in through the foggy dew," rather than the song about the bachelor and the serving maiden. What say you, Brian? |
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Require Words and Guitar Chor From: SingsIrish Songs Date: 28 Dec 99 - 03:36 AM You can request it from Prof's Traditional Irish Music pages....select Music Map on the navi bar, then Songs... http://www.prof.co.uk/irish1.htm Tell him SingsIrish sent ya.... Mary |
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Require Words and Guitar Chor From: Sandy Paton Date: 27 Dec 99 - 10:41 PM Brian: around here, you'll have to be more specific. Which "Foggy Dew" are you asking for? |
Subject: Require Words and Guitar Chords From: BrianBhoy Date: 27 Dec 99 - 07:05 PM Help!!! Can anyone help me with the words and guitar chords for the tune The Foggy Dew??? I need it for an Irish night and would appreciate any help!! Thanks, Brianbhoy |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Pete Peterson (lutrine@itw.com) Date: 30 Jun 98 - 11:32 PM Sud-el-Bar was one of the battles in the Gallipoli campaign, in 1915; so was Suvla Bay. At least I think so-- just got out my Amer. Heritage History of WWI to check and found Suvla in the indes but not Sud-el-Bar. It certainly SOUNDS Arabic (or Turkish) never thirst PETE PETERSON |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: leprechaun Date: 30 Jun 98 - 02:15 AM Thank you mm, Martin and Brad. |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Brad Date: 29 Jun 98 - 12:23 AM The Wolfe Tones sing this song (Down by the Liffeyside) on their 25th Anniversary CD set. Brad |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: mm Date: 27 Jun 98 - 07:31 PM re: Huns The English used to refer to the Germans as the "Huns" during the Great War (World War I). In Ireland this was turned back on them; I remember a song of my youth called "Down by the Liffeyside", one of the less politically correct versions of which had the lines: "And we'll have little children And we'll rear them neat and clean To shout 'Up de Valera' And to sing about Sinn Féin. [A small piece escapes me here] "And we'll spike the guns Of the Saxon Huns Down by the Liffeyside". |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Wolfgang Hell Date: 26 Nov 97 - 10:56 AM She sings no such verse on the "Long Black Veil" CD with the Chieftains. Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Nigel Sellars Date: 25 Nov 97 - 09:37 AM Perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me, but I recall yet another verse sung by Sinead O'Connor with the Chieftains that talks about children and wives. Only heard it once, but it certainly struck me as different. Any one know? |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: dick greenhaus Date: 24 Nov 97 - 01:28 PM Thanx Martin- I forgot these; and I've always loved the Perfidious Albion line. |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Martin Ryan Date: 24 Nov 97 - 11:34 AM Two further verses to the "revolutionary set". They fit as third and last of the set in the DT.
O the night fell black and the rifles crack made perfidious Albion reel
The above are taken from a (very) secondary source. A few bits sit awkwardly to my ear. I'll see if I can confirm them. Still think "The Maid of the Moorlough SHore" is the best set to this lovely air! Regards |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Alice Date: 16 Nov 97 - 01:55 PM Dick, the one word that I thought was awkward that McCoramck sang was in the line..." Then SPIED in my arms... " at the end of the song. I listened with headphones over and over, and it could only be that word he is saying. If anyone has a published copy with the lyrics saying something else, I would be interested in seeing it. I looked it up in my largest dictionary to see if there may be another meaning, and I can only interpret it as watching from the concealment of his arms. Thanks. Alice in Montana |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: dick greenhaus Date: 16 Nov 97 - 11:35 AM Thanx Alice- I guess my memory faileth. I'll correct the McCormack reference in the database. |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE FOGGY DEW (from John McCormack) From: Alice Date: 15 Nov 97 - 11:03 PM Dick, this caught my eye because I have an old RCA, 1958, recording of "John McCormack Sings Irish Songs", reproducing his early recordings. I checked the database, and the love song version you have there is different than the one he sings on the record. The recording is January 3, 1913. I transcribed the lyrics. THE FOGGY DEW Oh, down the hill I went one morn, A lovely maid I spied. Her hair was bright as the dew that went, Sweet banners seldom ride. And where go ye, sweet maid, said I, And she raised her eyes of blue. And smiled and said, The boy I wed, I'm to meet in the foggy dew. Go hide your clothes ye roses red, And droop ye lilies fair. For you must pale for very shame, Before a maid so fair. Said I, Dear maid, will you be my bride, She raised her eyes of blue. And smiled and said, The boy I wed, I'm to meet in the foggy dew. Oh, down the hill I went one morn, A-singing I did go. Oh, down the hill I went one morn, She answered sweet and low. Yes, I will be your own dear bride, And I know that you'll be true. Then spied in my arms, and all her charms, Were hidden in the foggy dew. In the album notes written by Max de Schauenesee, it says,"McCormack, in his long association with the phonograph, made more than 580 records, and was one of the most successful singers to place his art on discs... as a bel-canto stylist of the Italian school, he kept the undeviating vocal line advancing on an uninterrupted breath-stream, as one word melted into the next in a caressing legato. Therefore, it may seem almost paradoxical to claim that McCormack's every word stood out crystal-clear against the musical backgrounds." It is true, that in spite of it being a rough, scratchy sounding 1913 recording, the words he sang were clearly communicated. Alice in Montana |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: leprechaun Date: 13 Nov 97 - 01:56 PM Thanks everybody. As always, I've been rewarded with more than I hoped for. Now I'm wondering where to get recordings of the John McCormack songs. My grandfather's name was John McCormack, and to get the English off his trail, he changed it to McCormick when he fled to Canada around 1910 or so. |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Martin Ryan Date: 12 Nov 97 - 12:13 PM Dick Thanx. There's another verse or to to the "revolutionary" set- I'll forward them later. Regards |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: dick greenhaus Date: 12 Nov 97 - 10:41 AM Hi Martin- The McCormack recorded version is the one with the verse ending: "Young man, she said, the boy I'll wed I'm to meet in the foggy dew." I'm pretty sure we have it in the database. dick |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Martin Ryan Date: 12 Nov 97 - 04:22 AM Sud el Bar was in Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq).WW1 According to Cathal O'Boyle's "Songs of the County Down", the song was written in 1919 by Canon Charles O Neill, a catholic parish priest in Down. The air "belonged to an old love song, recorded in 1913 by John McCormack". I'm not sure what that last refers to - although the air is certainly used (with slight differences) for "The Banks of the Moorlough Shore" - which is a beautiful love song! "Brittania's sons" was definitely the original, BTW. Regards |
Subject: RE: The Foggy Dew From: Benjamin Bodhra/nai Date: 11 Nov 97 - 07:18 AM Hey ya Leprechaun, The term Hun is used a lot just to describe a bloodthirsty warring people or person, so yes in the view of the Irish republicans the English were Huns. Also the fact that the English are Anglo-Saxons, Anglelandt and Saxony being part of Germany and Denmark. But the phrase Britains sons is one I have found more common and it is more appropriate I think. Sud el Bar was a battle area in WWI, but having just done a quick check of my history books I can't find a good reference to it. It is in the Middle East and I'm sure that Australia was involved as that is why I would have a reference in my mind. I think it was in Egypt, maybe the same time and area as the Beersheba charge. Don't quote me. Sla/n Benjamin |
Subject: The Foggy Dew From: leprechaun Date: 11 Nov 97 - 01:27 AM In the lyrics of "The Foggy Dew" is a mention of Suvla and Sud el Bar. While reading about Gallipoli, I finally found out where and what Suvla was. I still have yet to locate Sud el Bar. I'm assuming it was a battle field in WWI or the Boer War. Another interesting lyric in The Foggy Dew is sometimes read as "Britannia's HUNS with their long range guns..." The reference to Huns seems strange, in that England was at war with Germany at the time of the Easter Rising. Other versions say "Britannia's SONS with their long range guns..." This makes more sense to me. If anybody has any insight into the Sud el Bar reference, or the huns/sons reference, I'd be after knowing more. |
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