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BS: The Debates
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Riginslinger Date: 28 Sep 08 - 09:53 AM Moving right along--now that McCain has gone to Washington and saved the financial bail-out, his number ought to start shooting up. People will now be able to understand the many points he was trying to make in the debate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Joe Offer Date: 28 Sep 08 - 03:47 AM Well, Justin, this is a folk music site, not a Democratic Party site....but I would venture a guess that the vast majority of American folkies are Democrats. It's worthwhile to have your opposing opinion expressed here so that the masses don't get too doctrinaire - but remember that you are a guest here, and you are expected to behave yourself. -Joe Offer- If you wish to contact me, do so by e-mail. joe@mudcat.org |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: GUEST,Justin Urquart Date: 28 Sep 08 - 03:17 AM Please don't tell me you believe he will do it Amos. It isn't go'a happen. In fact, Bobert would make a better choice with his 14,000 posts ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: CarolC Date: 28 Sep 08 - 03:14 AM Such as... I think we're already in the process of establishing some new traditions. I see ever larger numbers of people turning away from the greed, selfishness, jingoism, triumphalism, and outright racism that have been the core of our value system for centuries, and they're gravitating more towards a sense of collective responsibility, and toward behaving consciously, sustainably, equitably, and with integrity. These values don't have to be imposed on people. All the time, more and more people are embracing these values on their own. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 28 Sep 08 - 03:00 AM Right now the slim chance he doesn't have is 6 points ahead. Hmmmm.... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: GUEST,Justin Urquart Date: 28 Sep 08 - 02:54 AM I wasn't aware this was a Democratic party site. Oh well come November a all of you will just have to accept the count ! I really don't see Obama having a slim chance Kat do you ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 27 Sep 08 - 10:17 PM From Forbes: "Obama vs. McCain: Early Results Winning a debate is no guarantee that a candidate will win an election, and online polls open to all comers are flawed at best. That aside, as of last read, and with over a quarter of a million responses, Barack Obama leads John McCain 51% to 35% in response to a post-debate MSNBC poll on who won tonight's contest. Only 6.4% respondents agreed with my earlier assertion that the debate was basically a wash. Obama is already ahead of McCain in national polls and in the electoral college forecasts, but he'll need to keep working hard; under some scenarios, John McCain could come out ahead by taking just a few strategic states in which he's polling close to Obama. –Steve Kichen" |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 27 Sep 08 - 08:56 PM Well, I did watch the whole thing. But I've already said what I think. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 27 Sep 08 - 08:42 PM As always people always seem to think their favoured candidate did better. The bits I saw they both came across as pretty wooden. Not surprising, the way these debates are set up is so ponderous. And I suppose the fact that most people are never going to watch the whole thing, but rely on sound-bites must on the one hand make them terribly anxious to avoid anything that could be yanked out and make them look silly or cocky or whatever. And on the other hand they have to drag in pre-packaged and over rehearsed bits they hope will be used as sound-bites. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Bobert Date: 27 Sep 08 - 08:14 PM "Well, your flag decal won't get you into heaven anyymore..." Nuff said about this rediculous argument... Face it, folks, John McCain who has saddled mimself with a Roller Derby Queen for VP and is running as a Bush supporter ***had*** to win big last night... He didn't... Throw in a campaign built around subterfuge, he is running out of time... Oh, and as for the new GUEST... Me thinks he/she ain't all that new... Too bad there isn't a way to track some of these GUESTs because they feel they can just say wahtever comes into their little pea-brains and when they have completely been shown to be mental midget assh*les they then just pick a new handle and keep on firing their narrow minded venom... Must be nice... I've posted over 14,000 times here and that is the body of my work and I stand behind each and every one of those posts which means... ...whereas I might get a little rowdy at times I had better be prepared to accept "personal responsibility" for everything I post... Not so these revolving door GUESTs who wouldn't know "personal responsibility" if it bit them on their ass... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: kendall Date: 27 Sep 08 - 07:19 PM Regarding that flag on the tail of the plane thing, there was no choice in removing it. That is a trademark of the company that owned the plane, and they had to remove it. It's this right wing crap that keeps circulating like a turd in plugged up toilet that pisses me off. The truth is not enough for you birds, so you make up lies. Spirited discussions are good for us, but spreading lies serves no purpose at all. There was a time when lies took too long to run down, but now, thanks to snopes, google and Yahoo, it is a matter of minutes to learn the truth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: DougR Date: 27 Sep 08 - 07:04 PM Carol C:"We need some new traditions and values." Such as ...? (It's pretty difficult, though, to create new "traditions" isn't it?) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Riginslinger Date: 27 Sep 08 - 06:30 PM "THE ABOVE IS FALSELY ATTRIBUTED TO BILL COSBY!!!!" We need to find out who came up with it then. It's brilliant! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: kendall Date: 27 Sep 08 - 05:10 PM Bill, I didn't know O'Bama was Irish, I only do that to piss off the racists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: katlaughing Date: 27 Sep 08 - 05:04 PM THE ABOVE IS FALSELY ATTRIBUTED TO BILL COSBY!!!! Check SNOPES for the Truth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Sep 08 - 04:50 PM I HAVE DECIDED TO BECOME A WRITE-IN CANDIDATE. HERE IS MY PLATFORM: (1) 'Press 1 for English' is immediately banned. English is the official language; speak it or wait at the border until you can. (2) We will immediately go into a two year isolationist posture to straighten out the country's attitude. NO imports, no exports. We will use the 'Wal-Mart's policy, 'If we ain't got it, you don't need it.' (3) When imports are allowed, there will be a 100% import tax on it. (4) All retired military personnel will be required to man one of our many observation towers on the southern border. (six month tour) They will be under strict orders not to fire on SOUTHBOUND aliens. (5) Social security will i mmediately return to its original state. If you didn't put nuttin in, you ain't gettin nuttin out. The president nor any other politician will not be able to touch it. (6) Welfare - Checks will be handed out on Fridays at the end of the 40 hour school week and the successful completion of urinalysis and a passing grade. (7) Professional Athletes --Steroids - The FIRST time you check positive you're banned for life. (8) Crime - We will adopt the Turkish method, the first time you steal, you lose your right hand. There is no more life sentences. If convicted, you will be put to death by the same method you chose for your victim; gun, knife, strangulation, etc. (9) One export will be allowed; Wheat, The world needs to eat. A bushel of wheat will be the exact price of a barrel of oil. (10) All foreign aid using American taxpayer money will immediately cease, and the saved money will pay off the national debt and ultimately lower taxes. When disasters occur ar ound the world, we'll ask the American people if they want to donate to a disaster fund, and each citizen can make the decision whether it's a worthy cause. (11) The Pledge of Allegiance will be said every day at school and every day in Congress. (12) The National Anthem will be played at all appropriate ceremonies, sporting events, outings, etc. Sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes but a vote for me will get you better than what you have, and better than what you're gonna get. Thanks for listening, and remember to write in my name on the ballot in November. God Bless America !!!!!!!!!!! Bill Cosby!!!!!!!!
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Alice Date: 27 Sep 08 - 04:37 PM From fivethirtyeight.com, Electoral Projections done right Why voters watching the debate thought Obama won: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/ "Specifically, by a 62-32 margin, voters thought that Obama was "more in touch with the needs and problems of people like you". This is a gap that has no doubt grown because of the financial crisis of recent days. But it also grew because Obama was actually speaking to middle class voters." |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Sep 08 - 04:31 PM Including the drama that went with it(if McCain would make it), I thought it rated a C+, as far as political street theater. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: katlaughing Date: 27 Sep 08 - 04:15 PM So, BillD, didja check out that song, yet? There are a couple of Mudcatters in that video, too! Amos, any more stats for us, just the facts, ya know?**bg** |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Rapparee Date: 27 Sep 08 - 03:56 PM Justin, if Obama wins will you accept it? By the way, I did not and will not watch the so-called "debates." Years ago they degenerated into a question and answer session which only allows the candidates to answer in sound bites and to interpret and insult their opponent. They are NOT debates in the true sense of a debate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: katlaughing Date: 27 Sep 08 - 03:56 PM Billdarlin'...O'Bama IS Irish! Click Here. Be sure to scroll down to Guest, Sharon's post with the youtube link. Shay Black sings it at the Starry Plough in Berkeley! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 27 Sep 08 - 03:32 PM Justin: By the way, Obama did not take the American Flag off his jet, you right-wing ditto-headed blatherskite. He simply moved it -- to the port quarter, I believe. As for a lack of patriotism, if you interpret the current state of the United States as the result of patriotism I feel sorry for you and your delusions about what patriotism consists of. Because it is in fact not healthy for the country to operate on knee-jerk pushbutton hatred, as you seem inclined to do. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: GUEST,Justin Urquart Date: 27 Sep 08 - 03:17 PM Same old story. when George W. Bush was elected president you couldn't accept it. When John McCain IS elected president you will come this shit again. So many of you seem to think this guy Obama is the "Second Coming" and he has the solution to all our problems. Hmmm, Somalia, Zimbabwe, Chad, Ethiopia, and Southern Sudan come to mind. When the nation votes please accept it. Now please explain what this word Democratic means to you ?
Thank you. -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 27 Sep 08 - 03:14 PM Time's Joe Klein calls it a narrow victory for Obama: Obama emerged as a candidate who was at least as knowledgeable, judicious and unflappable as McCain on foreign policy ... and more knowledgeable, and better suited to deal with the economic crisis and domestic problems the country faces. On ABC, George Stephanopoulos concluded: And overall, bottom line, the winner is Barack Obama. He comes into this race where the country wants change, his number one goal was to show that he belonged on that stage...he could hold his own on national security, he did that tonight, he gets the win. Appearing alongside him was George Will, who also said Obama came out ahead: I think Barack Obama came out and looked comfortable and as though he belonged there. So, in a sense, the structure of the debate, indeed, the fact of the debate had to give a mild leg up to Barack Obama. Several positive reviews for Obama. A CBS News instant poll finds: 40% of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Barack Obama was the winner. 22% thought John McCain won. 38% saw it as a draw. 68% of these voters think Obama would make the right decision about the economy. 41% think McCain would. 49% of these voters think Obama would make the right decisions about Iraq. 55% think McCain would. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: CarolC Date: 27 Sep 08 - 02:21 PM Grow cotton on the white house lawn. Hmmm... So we know why that poster won't be voting for Obama. But the rest of us can see that poster's shoes under the white robes. I guess the "traditional values" that poster is referring to would be unapologetic racism. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 27 Sep 08 - 02:14 PM US presidential debate: Early polls give Barack Obama slender victory Barack Obama appears to have won a slender victory over John McCain in the first presidential debate, a vital test for both candidates in America's knife-edge election campaign. By Philip Sherwell in Oxford, Mississippi Last Updated: 6:33PM BST 27 Sep 2008 Two instant television polls and a focus group conducted by top consultant Frank Luntz gave the Democratic senator a lead over his Republican rival among the all-important undecided voters. His apparent victory was not clear cut, however, with some pundits declaring Sen McCain the winner on points just five weeks before Americans cast their ballots. Although the party nomination battles began 20 months ago and the election has already cost more than $1 billion, this was the first time that many Americans will have focused closely on the performance of the two candidates to replace President George W Bush. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 27 Sep 08 - 02:08 PM Two summations from NYTimes contributors: (See full article at http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/): "This first debate between John McCain and Barack Obama reminded me of 1996 when Senator Bob Dole debated President Bill Clinton. Like Bill Clinton, Mr. Obama gave a broader world view and vision about how the world had changed, how we need a president who can handle the complexities of the global financial crisis – one who can relate to the middle class and restore America's standing in world affairs. In contrast, Mr. McCain painted very much a Bob Dole-esque picture of a president steeped in the Senate, in experience, and in tax and spending cuts – one who is concerned about veterans and taking a tough approach to allies and enemies. Both had their moments, but Mr. McCain owned the past and Mr. Obama owned the future. … The First Debate: A Win for Obama By MICHAEL A. COHEN Michael A. Cohen is a senior research fellow at the New America Foundation and the author of "Live From the Campaign Trail: The Greatest Presidential Campaign Speeches of the 20th Century and How They Shaped Modern America." (Full biography.) Any analysis of the first presidential debate in Oxford, Miss,. must begin with a simple question:What was each candidate trying to achieve? For Barack Obama it was all about the half of all Americans who still think he lacks the requisite qualifications to be president. Would he seem knowledgeable and effective in talking about serious foreign policy issues? Would he be able to reassure them that they can trust him with the nation's most powerful job? Would he be able to go toe-to-toe with John McCain. For Mr. McCain, who is trailing in the polls and has had a rough two-week stretch since the financial crisis broke, he needed a clear victory Friday night. Considering that foreign policy is seen as his strong point he needed to portray Mr. Obama as naïve and inexperienced and not up to the job of commander in chief. More important, after his behavior of this past week, he needed to cultivate an air of statesmanship and counteract the growing chorus of recklessness being heard in the national media. On a substantive level, both candidates acquitted themselves well. In a political vacuum, this debate would seem like a tie. But as any fan of baseball knows, the tie goes to the runner. Well, in politics, the tie goes to the candidate who has the momentum and right now that candidate is Barack Obama and from that perspective the debate was an important tactical victory for him. … |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Amos Date: 27 Sep 08 - 02:04 PM "his campaign has been so chock full of excitement, however, that the debate lost some of its normal most-important-moment-in-history sheen. The real tension, after all, had been getting McCain there in the first place. A simple trip to Mississippi turned into a saga featuring many, many rapidly changing story lines: * Cancel the debate! * Maybe cancel the debate! * No debate unless Congress passes a financial rescue bill! * No debate unless Congress has a plan to pass a financial rescue bill. * Oh, what the heck. After all that, when the wandering debater finally showed up Friday night, he just looked like a smallish, grayish, slightly grumpy guy with a grizzly obsession. To be fair, it had been a very long week for McCain, what with ruling out the debate, ruling in the debate and returning to a Senate from which he has been AWOL so long that it's believed his desk is now being used to store janitorial supplies. He raced there in answer to the crisis call, after a brief detour to New York to deliver a desperately needed speech on fossil fuels at the Clinton Global Initiative. He could not have sounded more filled with passion about service and country and the need for his leadership. Then he joined President Bush, Obama and members of Congress in a White House meeting that his campaign had orchestrated, where he sat in near-silence as a bipartisan consensus fell apart. One thing we now know for sure. Electing John McCain would be God's gift to the profession of journalism. A story a minute. Imagine what would happen if a new beetle infested the Iowa corn crop during the first year of a McCain administration. On Monday, we spray. On Tuesday, we firebomb. On Wednesday, the president marches barefoot through the prairie in a show of support for Iowa farmers. On Thursday, the White House reveals that Wiley Flum, a postal worker from Willimantic, Conn., has been named the new beetle eradication czar. McCain says that Flum had shown "the instincts of a maverick reformer" in personally buying a box of roach motels and scattering them around the post office locker room. "I can't wait to introduce Wiley to those beetles in Iowa," the president adds. On Friday, McCain announces he's canceling the weekend until Congress makes the beetles go away. Barack Obama would just round up a whole roomful of experts and come up with a plan. Yawn." NYT Columnist |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Donuel Date: 27 Sep 08 - 01:59 PM Justin McRacist, you are right that, "Public opinion on Bush has been manipulated mostly by..." every fucked up unamerican, undemocratic, unconstitutional travsty he has done and allowed to be done in his name." |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Sep 08 - 01:09 PM Ein volk! Ein Reich! Ein Fuhrer! Many foreign (and domestic) "enemies"... Well, we have ways of dealing with them, don't we? Ask a few hundred thousand dead Iraqis about that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Ebbie Date: 27 Sep 08 - 01:03 PM JustinUrquart, would you like the whole nation to be as racist as you? Would that make us a better, stronger society? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Sep 08 - 01:01 PM Hey, it worked in Berlin in 1936...why shouldn't it work in America? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Bill D Date: 27 Sep 08 - 12:54 PM (ummm.. Kendall.. Obama isn't Irish... there is no apostrophe in his name.) Justin... you have parroted all the slimy rumors about Obama. That is not data, it is fear-mongering. Anyone who shouts "America...wake up!" after swift-boat type innuendo cannot BE debated. Their mind is clogged with slogans and lies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: heric Date: 27 Sep 08 - 12:52 PM It would be good to have the questions prepared by the minor candidates. (Couldn't have them in person, though.) --- I wish Lehrer had asked each candidate the important questions with the intro: "When you light up the hills of Pakistan . . . " --- The first question, repeatedly asked, was not fairly stated. It was "Will you sign this bailout?" The only defined bailout - the two page proposal - was rejected by all recipients a long time ago. "This bailout" is not something that currently exists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Sep 08 - 12:42 PM Damn right the USA is addicted to war. That is the defining characteristic of the USA and it is why it's the most feared country on Earth at the present time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: kendall Date: 27 Sep 08 - 12:33 PM I won't make a prediction, but if the voters concentrate on issues rather than ethnicity O'Bama and Biden will win. This country is addicted to war. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: kendall Date: 27 Sep 08 - 12:30 PM Dream on! Now, give us some facts to back up what you said about O'Bama's foreign attachments. What you quoted sounds like typical right wing crap to me. Bush wasn't to blame for Katrina? he didn't show his puss for a week! Same with this latest crisis. No one knew where he was. 9/11 he sat dumbfounded with a child's book in his hand when he was told about the attack. It was a while before someone told him how to act. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Ebbie Date: 27 Sep 08 - 12:16 PM The McCain camp is making a big deal of Obama saying various times that 'John' was right. I think that Obama acknowledging when he agreed with McCain was the mark of a negotiator, a person who reaches across the aisle. If I recall correctly McCain not once granted Obama the same courtesy.Instead he would condescendingly say things like of course, everyone knows that. "Nine Times"? Versus Zero? http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09/26/john-is-right/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: GUEST,Justin Urquart Date: 27 Sep 08 - 12:12 PM Bill, McCain will win because Obama is an obominable candidate. I can not believe how many of Obama's past relationships tie back to Kenya, Syria, Middle East, Malcolm X, Farrakan, and Frank Marshall Davis, known communist. America must wake up. Obama would be the worst president since Jimmy Carter. Some responses here talk about Bush and the increased national debt. What if 9/11 never happened? You democrats remember 9/11 don't you? No president besides FDR ever faced such an attack, so Bush - like FDR - went on the offensive. Doubtful Al Gore, if elected instead of Bush, would have done the same thing. Maybe like his mentor, Bill Clinton, after the first Trade Center attack - he'd launch ONE cruise missle and blow up a camel in a desserted training camp. That really showed 'em, huh? Public opinion on Bush has been manipulated mostly by the liberal press. Katrina is a perfect example. Bush gets blamed when the New Orleans mayor and governor of Lousiana both sit on their hands while the storm approaches and hits - then point the finger at the federal government. The media all but accused Bush of calling in that hurricane too. Yes, national debt has increased under Bush - but you pay less taxes. Imagine if unpatriotic Obama got elected. (Anyone notice he took the painting of the American flag off his jet???) You'll see change for sure - but it will be the change left in your pocket after the democrats raise your taxes -and they will because they ALWAYS do and Obama said so in his OWN WORDS. God help us if he's elected. John McCain will win the election. The Democratics no longer have Hispanic voters in their pocket. The Mexican-American community has come of age. As the oldest and most dominant group in Hispanic America, they are no longer poor, uneducated and are extremely patriotic. They have the largest number of veterans and the largest number of children in Uniform. They are also conservative Christians and detest the politics of the left wing Democrats. Those Americans who love their country trust McCain. and those Americans who fought the Black community for community funds in the 60's and 70's don't trust Obama and the Black leaders that are pushing the BLT agenda again, ever Stevie Wonder is getting in on the act. Chicanos will not vote for a Black Muslim Candidate. We know their history too well. Obama and his liberal cohorts will fade into memory. American WILL NOT see Cotton planted on the front lawn of the White House come November or re-runs of Roots on television. Of that be assured. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Bill D Date: 27 Sep 08 - 11:28 AM Justin Urquart said: "Clearly you fear a republican victory." oh indeed! We have 8 years of republican mess already. Another few years and we will have a military draft again because a volunteer army will not be able to fight all the battles the republicans are itching to fight. We will have about a 7-2 conservative majority on the Supreme court, allowing conservatives to impose their 'values' on everyone else. We will further increase the gap between the rich and the poor, while 'free enterprise' manipulates the markets to benefit the upper 5%. and the finances? and the rescue? We will have more lying in government, aided by more cronyism, self-deception and pure incompetence. We will have only lip service paid to most environmental issues, with 'change' in policies driven only by the possibility of certain business interests making money on it. We will have even less respect in the world at large as we invade, insult or ignore any country we think we can bully. I could go on..... Why yes, Justin...I certainly do fear another Republican victory. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Azizi Date: 27 Sep 08 - 11:27 AM Correction: Likelihood Of Another 9-11: O-56.82% ; M-43.18% |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Azizi Date: 27 Sep 08 - 11:22 AM http://www.mediacurves.com/ found that 61% of Independents believed Obama won the debate, while 38.89% favored McCain as the winner. On each of the eight topics, Obama was a clear winner among Independents, with his highest score coming on the Iran issue - two-thirds of Independents thought he won this question. -snip- The topics polled were [Percentages of Independents]* Financial Recovery Plan: O-60.76%; M-39.24% Economic Plan: O-55.95%; M-44.05% Government Spending: O-53.39%; M-46.61% Lessons Learned From The Iraq War: O-59.52% ; M-40.48% Sending More Troops To Afghanistan: O-56.86% ; M-43.14% Threat of Iran: O-61.82%; M-38.18% US Relationship With Russia: O-66.67%; M-33.33% Likelihood Of Another 9-11: O-61.11% ; M-38.89% Who Won The Debate: O-61.11%; M-38.89% *Percentages for Democrats and Republicans were also given on that page. -snip- Additional newspaper reports & online reports about the debate are found in this article: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/27/5947/86693/1011/612234 Saturday Morning Battleground Reaction: The Debate by Kula2316 Sat Sep 27, 2008 at 02:13:11 AM PDT |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: freda underhill Date: 27 Sep 08 - 10:59 AM This article in the washington post is interesting. It analyses misleading "assertions" made by both candidates in the debate, and gives the facts on events referred to. For example: 10:20 p.m. McCain seriously mistated his vote concerning the marines in Lebanon. He said that when he went into Congress in 1983, he voted against deploying them in Beirut. The Marines went in Lebanon in 1982, before McCain came to Congress. The vote came up a year into their deployment, when the Marines had already suffered 54 casualties. What McCain voted against was a measure to invoke the War Powers Act and to authorize the deployment of U.S. Marines in Lebanon for an additional 18 months. The measure passed 270-161, with 26 other Republicans (including McCain) and 134 Democrats voting against it. and 10:29 p.m. On Afghanistan, Obama once again twisted McCain's words when he said, "at one point, while you were focused on Iraq, you said, well, we can muddle through Afghanistan." That was a reference to comments McCain made in 2003 in which the Arizona senator expressed concern, but cautious optimism, about the long-term prospects of Afghanistan. "I believe that if Karzai can make the progress that he is making, that - in the long term, we may muddle through in Afghanistan," McCain said. --Michael Abramowitz |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Ron Davies Date: 27 Sep 08 - 10:51 AM "felt like he had to go on". Not likely. McCain realized that staying in DC would be seen as pointless grandstanding. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Riginslinger Date: 27 Sep 08 - 10:41 AM I wonder if McCain would have avoided the debate if Bob Barr had not volunteered to stand it for him. McCain, faced with the vision of Barr and Obama taking alternate pot-shots at him felt like he had to go on. If the polls swing in Obama's favor now, Bob Barr might be able to claim the distinction of getting the Democrat elected. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: GUEST,bankley Date: 27 Sep 08 - 10:35 AM In Canada there are 5 'leaders' in the debates, The Media tried to exclude Ms. May( Green Party) but relented under pressure... one will end up PM.. probably Harper again... I watched the US debates last night for less then a minute... 30 seconds to McCain, about 25 sec. for Obama... I know that this is where the big money lies... I also know that there are other candidates being shut out... Chuck Baldwin, Ralph Barr, Cynthia McKinney, Ralph Nader... It would be more interesting (and democratic) to let them have their say. Say what you want, these folks can swing enough votes to determine the outcome in a close call... this is some serious stuff... with all due respect, and with the risk of pissing off both sides here, I don't think that 2 sock puppets putting on show solves much.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Charley Noble Date: 27 Sep 08 - 10:28 AM Obama followed McCain's lead in identifying Iran's "Republican Guards" as a terrorist group. They both blundered in that they meant to refer to Iran's "Revolutionary Guards." For those who followed the debate closely, I think Obama did the better job and was more tactful in challenging McCain on his mis-statements. But others will only be assessing body language and characterizing the debate as "bickering" and for those the debate results will not change any minds or decide any "undecided." The further deterioration of the economy should be and is helping Obama but both candidates acknowledge that they will be hard-pressed to fund any major reform programs. Obama, however, was able to prioritize what he would fund, and provide reasons why. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Ron Davies Date: 27 Sep 08 - 10:18 AM "perception" |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Rapparee Date: 27 Sep 08 - 10:13 AM Justin: I was in the National Guard at the time of Kent State shootings. It was a massive breakdown of command and control and both a strategic and tactical disaster. It has been used for years by the National Guard during riot control training as a TRULY good Awful Example. Those involved WERE investigated and tried and found not guilty (not, please note, "innocent") at the time in an atmosphere of "they got what they deserved!" Three years later, when I was LIVING two minutes from Kent State, there was embarrassment over the verdict. It is not the rank-and-file who should have been tried, but the leadership for the multiple failures involved. I shan't discuss this further, but I DAMNED well wanted to set the record straight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates From: Ron Davies Date: 27 Sep 08 - 09:54 AM SRS--It's a matter of pereception. I believe McCain did establish that he knows more about foreign policy than Obama. But Obama established that he does know quite a bit--and that he was right whether the Iraq war was justified, and McCain was wrong. And that we should talk to enemies as well as friends. As to who "won", it was not a clear victory for either. YMMV. |
