BS: British Cars!

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: banjoman
Date: 01 Feb 13 - 06:37 AM

|and of course the RR Silver Spoon - a 3 wheeler with loads of mod cons - heating direct from the exhaust pipe

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 11:39 PM

Banjoman, you left out the Thrashwell Snailby!

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: GUEST,giovanni
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 03:13 PM

One of my Ginetta G4s crossed the Atlantic to a guy who raced it in California. I would guess it's still racing and should be winning.

Am I sad I sold it? - yes probably, but I now own a wholly English Chevron, many of which are winning races all over the world, so all is not lost.

You can still buy a new, wholly English, Chevron and it will win races straight out of the box.

Also a new Ginetta, wholly English. The rights to their best known models (G4 and G12) were sold to Japan, but the cars are still made in England under licence.

But I still think that for a car to be really, really good, it needs a 3 pointed star on the front.

g

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: banjoman
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 06:56 AM

When I worked for the AA many years ago, we had names for our favourite?cars which we attended to on a regular basis such as
The Vauxhall Shove It (Chevette
The Hillman Jinx
The Daimler Holts (Half Daimler half Holts Filler)
The Rolls Canardley ( Can hardly get up the slightest hills)

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 30 Jan 13 - 01:02 PM

Nope. Springs (and shockers).

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jan 13 - 11:22 AM

We always used to say that. Didn't you?

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 30 Jan 13 - 11:20 AM

I did a DIY mod on my two MG Midgets and the MGB GT: Got a coffee jar, quarter filled with water/anti-freeze, drilled a small hole in the lid, strapped it securely inside the engine bay and fed a tube from the radiator overflow to it, tube taped tightly into top of jar. Hardly ever had to top up the radiator as was normally the case (beacause the overflow pipe discharged onto the ground!).

Interesting times.

PS. Suspenders, Richard?!!

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jan 13 - 09:50 AM

Some people wondered why others could not work out how to put a sort of wellington boot on the mini/1100/1300 distributors. Worked fine.

Not a lot of B in the Marina. The 1800TC had what was largely a B engine but the box wasn't. Front suspenders were more Minor. Rear, Minor-like but single-leaf.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jan 13 - 09:20 AM

The Morris was cute, tho...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Jan 13 - 05:42 AM

Some say the Austin Marina (British Leyland, with quite a few MGB mechanical parts shared) was one of the worst British cars sold in North America.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Allen in Oz
Date: 30 Jan 13 - 03:42 AM

My worst car...a Morris 1100. If it even looked like rain, it would not go . The distributor was located at the front of the East West engine and subject to rain water coming straight through the grille! Aaaaargh

I used to say that it was no wonder the British lost an empire, they had forgotten even how to make a car

Still, I love the dear old country

AD

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 10:10 PM

IMHO the only time the yank tanks had any cred in the UK was when Jack Sears brought his 7 litre Galaxy over and was beating the 3.8 Mk II Jags round the faster circuits. He couldn't do it on the Brands short circuit though.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 08:58 PM

The Cyclone was a baddest of the bad...

427 c.i./425 h.p. Put slicks on the rear and turn low 11s right off the showroom floor... That is bad, bad, bad...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 08:54 PM

Most all the muscle cars were models of the brand crudely packed with go fast shit.

Pontiac: Tempest-LeMans-GTO
Chevrolet: Chevelle-Malibu-SS
Buick: Special-Skylark-GS
Olds: F-85 -Cutlass- 442
Ford: Fairlane- GTA
Mercury: Comet-Cyclone

And of course the Camaros, Firebirds, Mustangs, plus a proliferation of Mopar badges and models.


And Richard.....No one here gave two shits about handling in a muscle car. Beat me thru the corners? Sure. Pound your ass down the straights............Truthfully I loved road racing but the cost/reward in this country was never there. Believe me though, a lot of us were and still are fans. But sports car racing in the midwest never went anywhere. Like we say, Dirt is for Racing....Asphalt is for getting there.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 07:18 PM

Wasn't the Pontiac GTO actually a LeMans, or Tempest package Model in the beginning?

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 07:02 PM

While the rest of the world, in countries that had bends in the roads, roared with laughter.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 06:54 PM

Ferrari GTO? Pontiac copied? Damn right they did!

And when Pontiac copied it there was a great furor sent up by the sports car set as if the name was sancrosanct or something. A few years later the only GTO that the average guy knew was from Pontiac. In the great unwashed United States, we didn't care what it meant, where it came from, or any printer's error. Matter of fact, we didn't even use GTO.....it became the "Goat."

"Geeziz man, did you see Zudo's Goat? He put in a new Crane roller.....Wait'll ya' hear that fucker!"

And the Goat became the force that led to the real muscle car era that filled our lives and roads with ground pounding, roaring, unrefined, Detroit Iron..........Big Rats, Hemis, Bosses, 440 6-packs, 455-SHO's, the 396 thrashing machine..........Engines that created huge amounts of power and drank gas in monstrrous gulps. They passed everything else on the road but gas stations.   They were found coupled to solid transmissions that coped with the power and transferred it thru Posi and Detroit Locker rear ends. Much of the factory equipment was better than aftermarket and often even more bulletproof.

For a car guy, it was a high point of the creation and never matched before or since. Most certainly the cars today are more refined, handle better, are far more fuel efficient, and extremely reliable but not a one, not even the most powerful, will give you the same thrill and heart pounding pleasure that the Muscle Cars did.

Ferrari GTO? We didn't care. We had the Goat and it was America......not just American made. It was America......and we loved it.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 06:03 PM

""Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Ed T - PM
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 09:08 PM

Ford Consul""

How one forgets some of the best times!

The third car in on that page is a Ford Consul Capri of 1961 - 1964 vintage.

In 1973, I bought a Hooper GT Capri second hand and owned it for nearly five years. It was the Ford of Britain GT tweaked by Hooper, who specialised in motor sport

From Wiki:- In February 1963 a GT version (also 116E) was announced. The new GT engine, developed by Cosworth, featured a raised compression ratio to 9:1, a modified head with larger exhaust valves, an aluminium inlet manifold, a four branch exhaust manifold and, most noticeably, a twin-choke Weber carburettor - this being the first use of this make on a British production car. The same engine was announced for use in the Ford Cortina in April 1963.

It had bright orange high gloss bodywork, with a matt black roof, which meant that I was pulled over by most of the traffic cops in Kent on a twice weekly basis. The only visible sign of its unique nature was that the five stars of the 1500GT Ford were replaced by a solid chrome bar in the centre of the grill. It had high lift cams and polished ports and two twin choke Webers, all of which lifted the rather meagre 78 mph top speed to a more respectable 91mph, as well as considerably reducing the 0-60mph time. It also had highly capable 9" disc brakes on the front.

It was written off, while parked, by some (probably drunk) idiot early in 1978, who mistook it for a clear road, then buggered off.

Ah well!

I would have had to get rid of it anyway, as my kids were getting too large for a back seat suitable only for toddlers and legless dwarves.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 02:32 PM

I should point out that the correct name of the "XKE" was "the E-Type Jaguar" and that the name "MGB GT" is full of meaning (unlike "Ferrari GTO" which was a printer's error and did NOT mean "Gran Turismo Omologato") - which did not stop Pontiac promptly copying it.

True, however, it is that the "33" part of the "MG 8/33" did not refer to the BHP (which would then have been stupendous for a fiscal 8 hp car) but to the oil pressure at revs when hot and new.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 02:14 PM

""Maybe not fair, but funny:)

The Laws for British Sports Cars""

He missed the most important law of all. I'm not sure of the precise wording, but it went (and most likely still does) somewhat as follows:

Every British sports car shall be manufactured with not less than four, and not more than six, leaks, such that every person in the vehicle shall have wet knees, ankles, or feet immediately upon some careless passer by spitting on the pavement (sidewalk). The extra leaks shall allow ingress of water to the spark plug leads, ignition coil, or distributor cap, causing frequent stops to lift the bonnet (hood) and apply dry cloths.

This shall collectively be passed off with a shrug, a smile and a comment about the joys of open air motoring.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 09:32 PM

From the last site I linked to:

"It is unwise to pay too much, but it is worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money – that is all. When you pay too little you sometimes lose everything because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it cannot be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better."
John Ruskin (1819-1900)

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 09:23 PM

Maybe not fair, but funny:)

The Laws for British Sports Cars

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 09:15 PM

Someone brought up the Morgan... I liked them... Back in my day there was a Morgan club that sponsored an auto-cross and so I went to participate in my VW Karmann Ghia and there were at least 20 of these beautiful cars... I don't know much about them other than they have/had a belt holding the hood down and that they seemed to have a certain frame flex to them when raced...

Very nice lookin' cars, tho...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 09:08 PM

Ford Consul

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Stanron
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 07:46 PM

Got to say I love this thread too. My first car is later than some of the classics here. Mid 70s I bought an old Ford Anglia for £30. Two months later it cost over £100 to get it legal. Just about everyone saw me coming. Including the 'friend' who persuaded me to swap it for a Ford Zephyr. But I loved that car as well. I look back fondly to the days when a Haynes manual and a simple socket set was all you needed for trouble free motoring.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: framus
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 06:37 PM

Great thread which I've just found! Need time to read it all, then I'll come back and blether.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 05:54 PM

Auto history timelines

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: oldhippie
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 05:11 PM

to EBarnicle: It was a 4/4

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 07:44 AM

Shows what tricks memory can play. I've just checked and it was a 1935 two door with 12 volt electrics. The 6 volt monster was an earlier possession.

All else is essentially correct.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 07:31 AM

Back in the seventies a mate of mine had a land rover fitted with steel bumbers. If anyone cut him up he never bothered to take evasive action...

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 07:27 AM

Austin Cambridge!!!!

One thing it did have. A swift single pull on the starting handle would get it going on the coldest morning.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 07:22 AM

In the mid sixties, a friend gave me a 1939 Standard 9 h.p. because it had packed up and he couldn't get it going again.

Two quid for an ignition switch and a new 6 volt battery, and it was a perfectly good little runner.

Of course the 6 volt system was woefully inadequate, and the dynamo (remember them?) took 20 miles to put back the charge used in starting it. The lights enabled others to see me at night, while leaving me in complete ignorance as to what might be lurking beyond their 20 yard range.

It would take between ten and fifteen seconds to reach its top speed of 55 mph, but would then cruise happily at that speed until it ran out of fuel.

Under the side lift bonnet was an engine which looked like a small suitcase with four spark plugs sticking out of it, and there was enough room to step in and work on it.

The brakes were abysmal, with a 30mph stopping distance of "maybe" (not maybe fifty or sixty feet, just "maybe").

This was balanced by spring steel bumpers front and rear, which were quite capable of completely removing the front end of the currnt models, which I proved when somebody travelling in the opposite direction made a sudden right turn in front of me. He had a three inch wide, six inch deep groove right across the front. Took out both headlights and his radiator, a total write off.

I had to polish out a small scratch in the curled offside end of my front bumper.

Sad to say, I was dumb enough to put it in as part exchange for a Wolseley 6/60 (posh Aistin Cambridge).

Probably worth a lot of money today!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: GUEST,Jon Dudley
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 06:36 AM

Well I'll be blowed. Such a lot of motoring knowledge from Folk fans! There's no reason why there shouldn't be of course, but I've always kept a bit quiet about my motoring obsession - you know, rural idylls, bucolic scenes, horses and carts, oxen even...now I can 'come out'. Richard's earlier list is hugely comprehensive and his namechecking of one of the most underrated British cars of all time, the Daimler Majestic Major, is proof of his appreciation. Now an engine from one of those in the Daimler Dart would have given it 'E'-type performance. We're split in our family between support for British and French manufacturers, with Alvis and Morgan being the Brit representatives....

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 10:18 PM

Three wheeler or +4?

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: oldhippie
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 08:31 PM

'59 Berkeley - 492 cc motorcycle engine, chain drive, often came home on the end of a rope til we figured out how to put a chain guard on it to keep it from throwing it.

My favorites however were the Bugeye Sprite, and the Morgan.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 07:15 PM

Like I said earlier - Bling on steroids but somehow managing to make a grand job of it.

Anyone want to buy me one so I can check if I really love it?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 12:57 PM

Not too wild about the paint color but the new Bentley looks mighty fine...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 12:10 PM

Rebecca's back!

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 12:04 PM

The new Bentley

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 06:08 PM

In case I gave the impression I know nothing about mechanics - I do know a bit. I just can't remember what the something pot was or what it's purpose in life was.

I did most of my own maintenance on my Ladas - Including setting the timing with a strobe and using a dwell meter to set the points! It was all easy stuff on those engines. They would never have had the timing belt issue - They had a chain that was adjusted by slackening the tensioner, turning the engine round 1.5 times with the crank handle and then re-tightening the adjuster. There was also an adjuster on the distributor in case you used different grades of petrol. Take it up to 50KPH and then floor it. Depending on the result you either advainced or retarded the timing with the vernier adjuster. Brilliantly simple.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 05:55 PM

Funny Huw - One of my best cars was a Rover 218 SLD. Diesel of course so no Carb issues like on yours. I did have one huge stroke of luck - I had it just short of 2 years when the cam belt went and wrecked the engine. Very fortunately it was covered under warranty and I got a new engine, well, top end anyway, in a 4 year old car :-) Lovely car that, apart from the incident mentioned, never let me down.

I mentioned that I had a Montego - 2 litre petrol engine I think. Anyway, every time it was cold it would not start. I mean really cold - less than 0 - After the first time of calling out the AA I found out what to do. There was a bell shaped thingummy atop the engine - A something pot the mechanic called it. Just unscrewed a cap from the top of that and screwed it back again and it stared fine. Unblocked some sort of vacuum apparently. What was that all about? Why just in the cold? Anyway - As someone said earlier. they don't have engines now. Just plastic covers and ports to plug in diagnostic computers!


Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 02:10 PM

That's more like what we call "demolition derby" here, Pete... Enduro is more like racing... The wrecks are not on purpose and no one purposely hits anyone... It just happens...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: HuwG
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 01:52 PM

For some unknown reason, I have always bought British, starting with a Ford Escort (Mk 2) Popular Plus, winding up with the present Rover 25 (OK, that's Japanese to all intents and puposes, apart from the steering wheel badge).

Favourite: the Triumph Acclaim. Remarkable performance, mainly because the chassis and bodywork were very light gauge, which eventually became its downfall. Once corrosion set in, I could not grind away the rusty bits fast enought to keep up with the rot. On one of its last trips, I could see a shower of rusty fragments from the disintegrating passenger door in the rear view mirror.

Least favourite: a Rover 216S. This had a HIF carburettor, with a potentially lethal "feature". It did not like trips to the seaside. Every time I returned from visiting my parents in Pembrokeshire, the float would stick in the chamber. Pulling away from lights was a progression of stutters and rabbit hops. I thought that was the worst of it until I tried pulling off the M6. On the slip road, I took my foot off the throttle and the car accelerated, with a full-rich gurgle from the exhaust. I didn't have much time to hit clutch and brakes, and turn the ignition off to prevent the engine revving itself out of the bonnet (also dangerous; if I had turned the ignition key all the way round in panic, it would have locked the steering).

Someone I once worked for bought a Turbo Montego. He had no idea of economical driving, constantly pressing and releasing the throttle, releasing burps of unburned hydrocarbons from the turbo with every change, and in the process jerking my head back and forth to give a very tiring trip. After a journey down the A1 in which he recorded 20 miles per gallon he went back to a gigantic Mercedes.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 01:29 PM

From the look of the video, those are modern machines, so they have studded tires. It appears that they are doing oval racing rather than Grand Prix style, with 20 or more cars on the track.

While we had mostly SAABs out there, there were a goodly scattering of Corvairs, Porsches minis and others out there. The engines were all modded to allow higher speeds and the exhausts were also modded.

My personal vehicle began life as a '65 SAAB Monte Carlo, with an 850 cc oil injected two stroke. After blowing the engine for the third time, I converted to a 1500 cc SAAB/Ford Taunus engine which was moderately breathed on: 3/4 race cam, enlarged intake and exhaust ports, heavy duty valve springs, custom exhaust, steel balance shaft gear, high capacity oil pump, Weber carb, balanced pistons, etc. We also played with the suspension. It was roadable because it was pre-'72, when the emission standards came in. The inspection techs kept looking for a leak in the exhaust, but there wasn't one.

This car came in second in class in the '72 Monte Carlo Rallye, with me at the wheel.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 01:10 PM

Hey Bobz, over here we call it banger racing, but I don't think it goes on for 500 laps!

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 01:01 PM

Speaking of racing, there's one kinda race that is real fun... It's called Enduro... They go it on a 1/2 mile dirt track in Hagerstown, Md and use "grocery getters"... It used to pay like $5000 for 1st place...

Here's how it works... You get about 50 or so knuckle-heads who have bought old hoopties for a $100 or so, give them a two page rule book on how to set the car up and let 'um go at it for 500 laps... No caution flags unless a car is on fire or the driver is critically injured... When there are wrecks the cars have to stay on the track right where they wrecked so each lap becomes a memory quiz 'cause the track becomes more and more an obstacle course as the day goes on... By the end of the race there are only a few places where folks can try to get around the guy ahead of them before its single file between wrecks... BTW, if and when you wreck yer can you stay in it until the race is over...

Now that's what I call fun...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 12:03 PM

Looks spectacular, EB! Still going on and found a clip here. Can't tell if studs are in use or not.

Never been a big fan of F1 but this stuff all looks great - And the kind of racing that these old British cars would have been good in. Well, some of them... :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 11:06 AM

Them sprint cars look like real fun, Spaw!

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 10:15 AM

Spaw, that ain't ice racing. NEIRA, the New England Ice Racing Association used to [and still may] go out on the frozen lakes all winter long, using the accumulated snow for banks and barriers. When I was involved, studs were not allowed. All the heats were enduros of about 50 miles and the cars regularly got up to speeds of well over 100mph on the straights.

The lack of studs acted as a safety factor, alowing the cars to bounce off each other rather than doing major structural damage and keep on going.

At least that was the theory. I don't recall many cars being retired for major damage. Some of 'em looked pretty rough, though. They did roar, though.

Subject: RE: BS: British Cars!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 09:32 AM

""I once saw Tom Pryce go round Druids like that, Don, (Goodyear tyre test at Brands Hatch, 1975 I think) but I'm not sure it was intentional!""

There were a number of rallycross types who eventually got, but Rod was the first to make it pay.

One rainy Saturday afternoon there was a bunch of bikers right on the peak, just inside the safety fence. They'd been giving Rod some stick during practice, because he had some problem with the car.

Come the first race, he overshot the turn in point by about ten yards, going sideways with his back wheels just on the edge of the grass. Wheels spinning in third on full throttle, he must have delivered a couple of hundredweight of wet mud and grass right over the fence.

They must have heard the cheers as far away as Canterbury.

The method largely disappeared when the Group Bs were banned from rallies, and picked up by the Rallycross boys.

Once the contenders such as Will Gollop changed to the Metro 6r4s,drifting was neither easy nor desireable.

Don T.