BS: Here we go again in London

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:43 PM

I hope it turns out that the shot man actually was something to do with the bombing. It's been announced that he definitely wasn't one of the four men identified from CCTV cameras from yesteday's incidents.

"Met Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said officers fired after the man was challenged and refused to obey police."   That's a bit worrying - there was a recent trial of two police officers who shot a man who failed to respond to a shouted challenge and turned out to be deaf. And they weren't even sitting on him at the time they shot him, as appears to have been the case in Stockwell.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:38 PM

Didn't try to arrest the youth? If I had twenty police CHASING me and YELLING at me, I might think it a tad proper to comply. Try to arrest?... oh, it's a joke... you are yanking my chain... hehehe... sorry... I take some posts too seriously... sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST,average american
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:33 PM

Blair has been staging himself excellently. He can put into words what The President can barely pronounce.

I think you Brits are well served by Blair and in trying to create a notion of righteous cause and effect ("Blair's chickens coming home to roost") between the English actions in Iraq and the attempt to kill civilians in the London underground is either shameful or small minded. In other words, some of you are saying that terrorists are okay when you agree with their stated cause.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:24 PM

Hi gnu...Still no details as to whether dead man was terrorist or just afraid of police,could have been ordinary criminal.

Strange how the police didn't try to arrest the youth.

I suppose we'll get all the details in time...

Blairs chickens are sure coming home to roost.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:22 PM

As a Londoner I hope you don't need reminding.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:21 PM

No sweat. Just don't run when they (politely) ask you to stop.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:11 PM

Remind me never to jump a turnstile in London.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:04 PM

ake... I heard he was only shot five times... me, if I had been on him and he tried to detonate his bomb, I would have shot him six times... if I only had six bullets.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 03:33 PM

Exactly! They should be called terrorists, plain and simple. To identify them by race or religion, stereotypes innocent people of the same race and/or religion.

BTW David, Carol is right. South Asians or Pakistanis or more closely related to Aryans. That is if you buy into the old racist theory of three distinct races. Genetic reasearch, however, has proven that there are no distinct races and that we all came from the same African mother.

Skin colour, hair and facial features are the result of environmental factors related to migration. We all belong to the human race.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 03:29 PM

Well said Barden.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: The Barden of England
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 03:16 PM

So, we pull out of Iraq and all in the garden is roses.
In your dreams! These people are not true muslims, nor Christians, nor Jews - they are terrorists through and through, who have been brainwashed by people who don't offer themselves up to the same fate.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 02:58 PM

Possibly significant ommissions Ake,
he ran onto the train wearing a thick jacket, from close to where failed suicide bomber fled yesterday.
We now know he was not one of the 4. Police say incident is related.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 02:47 PM

Police challenge young "asian" in London tube station, young man tries to escape on stationary train.

Several plain clothes officers follow the man onto the train and shoot him six times in front of terrified passengers.

Muslim leaders call on police to explain the death, alleging a "shoot to kill" policy.

The beat goes on ...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: jacqui.c
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 02:38 PM

I personally know of Muslims who are British and white, Turkish, black (African origin). Islam is a religion shared by many racial groups, not a racial designation.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 02:35 PM

Ellenpoly, i am sure he did not mean harm by his remark. Back then things were simpler. Mr grandad used to call his shipmate 'darky' but his darker friend used to call him 'whitey'.

These were the days before Political Correctness became the new fascism and criminalized words.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 12:36 PM

The Goverment is trying to avoid the arguement that Blair's involvement with the Iraq War is causing the recent terrorism at home.
UK officials are saying that the terrorists* are South Asian Muslims and not the Arab Muslims from Iraq.

The distinction doesn't fly in my book, but the political Orwellian re definitions are flying fast and furious lately.

*Frankly I think it is too soon to say who did what.
Perhaps the issue of guilt will remain clouded forever.
Some people still think it is too soon to say who shot JFK.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 12:29 PM

I heard not too long ago, an elderly British gentleman I was teaching use the term "Fuzzy Wuzzies" !!! I didn't dare ask who exactly he was referring to, but it did show that some things die hard here in the U of K.

;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 12:22 PM

It's a British thing. We don't use that term Asians) in Australia for people from the sub-continent. We just call them by the name of the country they come from.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 12:15 PM

I don't think the people who are from Pakistan (who are being called "Asian" in this thread), are technically considered a separate race from Europeans. Asians from countries like China and Japan are technically considered a different race from Europeans. Some Muslims who are technically considered Asians are those from Indonesia. I believe that people from what is now Pakistan can technically call themselves "Aryans", or at least descended from "Aryans". I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion so the discussion can get back to the subject of the situation in London.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: MMario
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 12:10 PM

Is this a British/UK thing? I don't think I've ever seen "Muslim" and "Asian" used as identifiers for the same person.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 12:07 PM

A warning to teens who jump the turnstiles in the subway.

YOU WILL BE MET WITH DEADLY FORCE

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 11:59 AM

that was supposed to read, "and what race are the muslims who are NOT asian that you know". sorry

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 11:58 AM

"...No-one knows if this man was Muslim or not"

Yes, we do. They were Muslims.

"I know many Muslims who are not Asian. Muslim (Islam) is a religion, not a race"

And what race are the muslims who are asian that you know?


"I know even more Asians who are not Muslim. Don't confuse the two".

Yes, thank you for repeating my earlier point, in which i said,

"Please don't get the idea that it is 'asians' who are to blame for these attacks, asian has a very broad meaning, and i tire of the media using the name asian to describe these attackers".

I agree, and that is why i tire of the media always describing the rioters in Bradford as Asians, when they were Muslim, and the same with the recent terror attacks, to call them asian is to criminalize every asian group, when the motive behind these attacks is not the fact that the killers are asian, but they are muslims who believe their faith gives them credence to kill.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 11:53 AM

dianavan you have confused me now, what it is that i said that is confusing you?

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 10:07 AM

Right, mate. When I say halt, I mean HALT! (Yeah... I know... not PC.)

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Kaleea
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 12:08 AM

Whoever the evil ones are, whatever flavor of human they happen to be, my thoughts are with the British people and the other peoples of the world who have had to deal with the results of evil ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: LadyJean
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:17 PM

I've gotten half a dozen emails from bloggers today, assuring me that the bombs were set by the CIA to make sure that congress made the Patriot Act permanent. Now I wonder why the CIA would set bombs in London to promote and American bill. I do get very very tired of conspiracy theories. But I hope the London catters stay safe.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 09:43 PM

"you shouldn't be afraid to say asian, but please bear in mind it is muslims who are terrorizing not asians"

I am no more afraid to say Muslim than I am to say Asian, but again, I will only say it if I know it to be true. No-one knows if this man was Muslim or not. I know many Muslims who are not Asian. Muslim (Islam) is a religion, not a race. I know even more Asians who are not Muslim. Don't confuse the two.

I envy you your ability to know a persons religious affiliation and ethnic background without a) meeting; b) seeing; c) hearing and d) being told by that person.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 08:18 PM

Police are now saying the UCH incident was not connected to the bombings. Police are calling them 'exploded bombs.' Two men arrested and later released. One man on tube who had an exploding backpack legged it off the tube and got away despite people trying to stop him. Confusion reigns supreme.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 06:58 PM

David - Seems to me that you are contradicting yourself. From the "more Muslim intolerance" thread:

"The reason i refer to Asians in Keighley as Asians, is because to call them Pakistanis is untrue. They are not from Pakistan, they are from the UK, they are born in the UK. I am of course reffering to second, third generation UK born. The asians grooming young girls in Keighley are born in the country. First generation pakistanis, from my experience deplore the way their children behave, westernized to the extent they have no roots, and when it comes to drug dealing, the elders condemn this fully.

I think it is a bit hasty to claim to know what ethnics 'prefer' to be called. I also think it is irrelvant, as i'm not going to tiptoe on cobbled stones in order not to offend. Unless someone was calling someone a vicious name of abuse then i would speak out, but aside from that, it is irrelvant."

I am confused by your messages. Is this whats called political 'double-speak'?

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 04:47 PM

i agree liz, you shouldn't be afraid to say asian, but please bear in mind it is muslims who are terrorizing not asians. Please don't get the idea that it is 'asians' who are to blame for these attacks, asian has a very broad meaning, and i tire of the media using the name asian to describe these attackers.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 04:33 PM

Always remember, the people doing the bombing, and the racists and sectarians stirring away in the aftermath have a shared agenda. They both want to set people against each other on the basis of religion or "race".

Responding to those kind of posts just encourages them to keep coming back. If we could all resist the tempttion to reply to them, but instead could just scroll past them and ignore them, they'd drift away soon enough - and if they didn't, so what, it's just graffiti.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:51 AM

Fuck off Guest... I am not afraid to say Asian, when I know it's the truth. Same as I'm not afraid to say Chinese, African, Nigerian, Lithuanian, Martian or Cretin when appropriate.

It's morons like you that make me far angrier than any attempt to bomb innocent people does... because morons like you BREED the contempt that these terrorists hold for life.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:46 AM

That's precisely why I left a word out. I don't know what colour, creed, race or inside leg measurement he was. I just reported what the BBC were saying and my own suggestions from that report.

I was in my local market when I heard the news, listening on my radio headphones; I was appalled by the racist comments that were being made by certain stallholders before we even knew what was happening, they won't be getting my trade again. And I will not incite anyone else to racist comments by jumping on Mr Bandwagon and shouting the odds about what race, religion or colour the pursued man was.

A man was chased out of Warren Street Tube. There is a report of an internal memo to be on the lookout for a particular man. It may not be the same man, but as the hospital is practically on top of the station, it's highly possible. No-one on the BBC has mentioned what race, colour or creed the chased man was.

Please don't let this thread go the same way as the previous one... let's just keep this for people to check in on.... like we did last time.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:41 AM

Well said memory of martin gibson, notice Liz the Squeak post, people dare not even say the word 'asian', though even that is misleading, as we are talking specifically muslims here who are orchestrating these terror attacks.

Is that racist to say, of course not, it is fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST,Truthful Memory of Martin Gibson
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:31 AM

Who did it this time?

Mohammad?
Abdul?
Osama
Someone named Patel?

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Cobble
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:27 AM

The police asked television people to switch of camera's outside 10 Downing st, just before Blairs press conference, dont know why though.

          Cobble.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:16 AM

well. I'm logging off & I'll be off to bed soon.

BBC world service coverage is great, so is reception, sometimes it gets noisy on my cheap radio.

guest, thanks for info about injured man.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST,bob
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:12 AM

"look out for...man"

What word is missing?

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:12 AM

sandra they won't be reporting much on the injured man as it is believed he was the guy carrying the exploding back pack. They won't be identifying him, they'll be hoping the others can be found with info he gives.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:07 AM

Manitas, CatsPHiddle and myself are accounted for and safe. I stood in the street and shouted out 'Thank you God, for making me such a lazy cow!!' Had I been arsed to get up, I would have been at work this morning and making my way home from Warren Street Station at just about the time the explosion happened.

Most people are just pissed off that they can't get home.. the cricket is still going on (England are trailing.....) and my work colleagues are stuck in the office..... I work in a tower block not 100mts away from Warren St. Tube.

As of 4pm: 4 attempted explosions, 3 tube, 1 bus. Smaller and nowhere near as much damage than 2 weeks ago and situation under control. Oval, Shepherds' Bush and Warren St stations, the bus is in Hackney Road. A man was being chased out of Warren St, but don't know in what context. The bus had its windows blown out, backpack found on the back seat of the upper deck. University College Hospital next to WS has been cordoned off which is possibly the result of the "lookout for .... man" comment.

Stay safe, people.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:06 AM

BBC news - services suspended on 3 underground lines, one confirmed casulty, but no info on this person's injuries.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:04 AM

On another lighter note, the police earlier asked Londoners to be on the look out for ' a man with wires sticking out of his shirt.'

At least this time they kept all the passengers on the trains and buses together and started taking witness reports. Last time a lot of the walking wounded obviously left the scene. Practise makes perfect.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:03 AM

Blair quietly urged "EVERYBODY REMAIN CALM I REPEAT REMAIN CALM!".

In the spirit of rumor mongering I wish everyone a great day

28 DAYS FROM TODAY !!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:00 AM

Just arrived from the US this morning. Got safely in at Micca's about an hour before the incident. I'm grateful that it was no worse, but hope that's the end of it.

Allison

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST,bob
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 10:59 AM

Sorry yes, i didnt realise there would be so many guests. thanks sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 10:57 AM

Londoners told to resume business so long as it doesnt involve any travelling on tubes. More stations closed in last ten minutes. Large areas of road blocked off. Getting home is going to be interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Highlandman
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 10:54 AM

Looks like a minor, inept attempt at a copycat event... whatever happens, Londoners, here's wishing you the best, and don't let the bastards grind ya down.
-HM

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 10:53 AM

"If he is an innocent tourist he has one hell of a day out"

Thanks GUEST, I needed a small chuckle.

(I didn't get caught on the underground this time, but my flatmate did. He was evacuated from Westminster station.)

"Situation under control...one confirmed casualty, not a fatality"

And that's the latest at 3:51

Subject: RE: BS: Here we go again in London
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 10:50 AM

Hello, Bob, welcome to Mudcat

if you type your name in the Guest window we'll know which posts are from you

I'm currently listening to Tony Blair praising Oz. I wonder if Little Johnny will speak next. BBC World Service says it is a joint news conference.

Police spokesman says 4 small explosions or attemped explosions, but significant none-the-less, & advises folks to resume business.

sandra