Pianos In Folk Music

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 04:27 PM

Johnny Handle was mentioned somewhere above.
I recall one year at Whitby Folk Week, in the original Spa balroom, the "goon squad" were setting out for the evening dance. They were moving a podium on castors with a grand piano to where it was needed.
Johnny Handle was at the time seated at the piano and continued to play throughout the move.
Quack!
Geoff the Duck.

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Emma B
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 04:02 PM

Little Robyn thanks for reminding me about Johnny Handle an 'oldie' but a good 'un'!
I've heard him on a 'joanna' in a noisy bar have everyone singing along to Blaydon Races!

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: GUEST,Curmudgeon
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 03:34 PM

'Plumby'? You're dragging the depths with that one.

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 03:33 PM

Hmm. I'd say that on the June Tabor links, the piano works fairly well. It seems to be unobtrusive and accompanies the songs rather than overwhelming them, which all too often, a piano (or pianist) will do. Harking back to the minstrel tradition, I've always thought that a small, portable instrument such as a guitar, lute, banjo, whatever, depending on the song, is best, but if tastefully done and in the right setting, a piano is--okay.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Doc John
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 03:25 PM

I hate them in folk music and Frank Hamilton just about sums it up the reasons why they don't fit. They always remind me of why I was put off English folk music as a child: a plumby voiced sopranoes singing 'Greensleeves' or 'Blow Ye Winds Southerly' to piano accompaniment.

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: GUEST,The Mole catcher's piano playing Apprentice
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 03:21 PM

try telling that to Beryl Marriott and any number of excellent ceilidh bands currently doing the rounds....discuss

Charlotte (trying to keep her 88's straight)

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: mattkeen
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 03:17 PM

Huw Warren who usually plays with June Tabor is a marvellous player but at the risk of agreeing with some of the mad rantings of Richard, I do think that piano usually doesn't work in folk and I don't know why.

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: PoppaGator
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 03:11 PM

Depends on what you mean by "folk music." As always!

During the century or so immediately before the invention of audio recording, most people's experience of music, in homes and taverns and other places, involved the piano. Where no one able to play was available, there were player pianos. A whole lot of amateur singing-along occurred in gatherings around pianos. To me, that just about defines "folk."

On the other hand, my own current-day experience of the music most of us consider to be "folk" involves more portable instruments. In my (American) experience, the acoustic guitar has always seemed to be the definitive folk-music instrument. But since then, I've learned that some folks consider the guitar to be anethema to their conceptions of folk music: only fiddles, concertinas, and tin whistles need apply...

Each to his own. As always!

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 03:04 PM

Horrid Horrid Horrid on English folk music (1954 def) and even most nu-folk and neofolk.

They can ruin even June Tabor's singing (which is wonderful). They spoil Carol King.

There was a rather good band (I forget who) at Ely 2007 - and then the effing piano came thundering in and ruined it and my friends all laughed 'cos I stood up and said "Soddit it's a friggin piano I'm out of here" and left.

They ruin the two best Fairport original compositions ("Let her go Down", and the one about transportation to America - Virginny).

Irreplaceable for barrelhouse and boogie and boogie-woogie, great in the hands of Eddie Boyd, Champion Jack Dupree, Louisiana Red, and Doctor John - Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard - people who remember they are a percussion instrument - horrid in the hands of Christine Perfect (Chicken Shack) while still trying to play blues. Grand pianos are worse than uprights. Reg Dwight is wholly unlistenable to (with the possible exception of "Border Song", which nearly makes it as blue eyed soul).

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Little Robyn
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 02:45 PM

Johnny Handle in the High Level Ranters. He keeps things bouncing along, using the piano almost as a bass, when he's not playing his accordion.
I've seen him on an old piano that was a semitone out of tune and he just transposed onto the black notes and didn't miss a beat.
But I don't enjoy the semi-classical 'folk songs in evening dress' stuff.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 02:07 PM

it's too heavy to pack around on your back. No strap would work. Capos would be too expensive to fashion. You couldn't carry this on your back while schlepping down a railroad track singing "Goin' Down This Road Feelin' Bad".

It generally is played so loud that it drowns out acoustic voices. You need sound reinforcement to carry it (not folklike).

It sounds the best on show tunes, some pop tunes, some originals, and some blues ala
Ray Charles or rock ala Jerry Lee Lewis. Elton made it sound good on his first album.
A Bachrach song needs a piano IMHO.

Folk? It's hard to integrate it into an acoustic ensemble. It sounds good in a Contra-Dance band, though. Keeps the dancers on their toes (so to speak). I think of Yvan Breaux with Heritage who really made that thing talk for dancers.

It's great for jazz. Chord changes sophisticated and smooth and sets that mood.

In folk? I believe in simplicity. Sometimes an "um-plunk" sound best for a song because it doesn't get in the way. Simple piano tends to sound like "Chopsticks" but simple accompaniments on the guitar or banjo are more appropriate for folk songs.

Lieder or semi-classical arrangements of folk songs work (but not for "purists") but they don't sound folk-like. Schubert was kind of classical-folky. Many of his tunes became German Volklieder. Gotta' have Gerald Moore (great piano accompanist) and Fischer-Dieskau though. Nicht folky though.

Folk is accessible and I believe that the guitar and banjo are more accessible than the piano (which is so musically capable that in the hands of a beginner, it is most unwieldy).

There is a nightmare of four or five pianos playing folk music together although that number works fine with some guitar an acoustic string players.

88 versus 6, 5 or 12 (or 4) sort of says it. (Oh yes, 36 for autoharp)

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:53 PM

And this one June Tabor

And this one June Tabor

Blimey, to think that about 16 years ago, I saw June Tabor live, and didn't like her at all. How time can make you change your viewpoint. I am pleased to say. :-)

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:47 PM

(I'm speaking of instrumental bands here, not solo singers who use piano backing because that varies so much depending upon the artist): I don't like them 95% of the time because they're so often unimaginatively played by people who simply bash out the same three vamp chords, which dominates tonally and doesn't take any real skill to do. I like keyboards to be subtle, interesting, to be able to carry the melody instead of ONLY chording along, and to not take over.

Pianists I like (these are only the ones I can think of off the top of my head at the moment, so this is not a comprehensive list - there are others too):

Micheál Ó Súilleabháin

Kevin O'Reilley (??I think that's his name) in the band North Cregg

Paul Machlis, who plays sometimes with Alasdair Fraser

Another Irish fella with a very straightforward name - so straightforward I can't remember it, Pat Something? He just put a record out a few months ago which has been aired on Irish radio.

Reg Hall, as Dick has already mentioned.

There are certainly more - but sadly they're outnumbered by piano accompaniments that I hate. Never heard Belinda but she sounds like one of the good 'uns.

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:47 PM

I like this one June Tabor

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Leadfingers
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:43 PM

I personally do not like piano accompaniment for traditional tunes !

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:42 PM

Ah! But hev ye ever heard 'Old Brown Dog' by Ralph McTell? - A work of pianistic art and the song just wadn't be the same just on guitar.

That's the ownly one that springs te mind immediately but give uz a minnute and aah'll find more

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:37 PM

It depends on the context - in Cape Breton fiddle music a piano is just the thing. For a sea chantey not so much.

Dan

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:35 PM

Bruce Hornsby and Ricky Skaggs recently released a CD. The bluegrass community generally thought it was "no part of nuthin' " but I liked a lot of it.

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Emma B
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:33 PM

An out-of-tune battered pub upright piano was always the focal point of the earliest singing sessions I remember as a kid.

....and, you can put your beer on them too:)

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:32 PM

it depends how they are played.
on one of my albums Cheating The Tide,I had a superb pianist called Sam Richards.
I think they can also work very well in Ceilidh Bands[ eg Reg Hall].Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Maryrrf
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:31 PM

Count me as one that doesn't particularly like them although they can sometimes work. Usually not my taste.

Subject: RE: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:30 PM

They are much better than Banjo's :-)

I think its great to hear somebody playing piano and singing a folk song.

Subject: Pianos In Folk Music
From: Banjiman
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:24 PM

I don't like 'em.........discuss