BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,take Islam out of it.
Date: 08 Oct 05 - 01:05 PM

It is intolerance yes, but not MUSLIM intolerance. Islam doesn't preach its followers to murder every non-muslim man /man who is involved with a Muslim. It is people like the person who started this topic who are breading discontentment amongst us. Yes the perpetrators of this attack were Muslims but it is more to do with their cultural priorities before their religious beliefs.

Thanks,
K.M.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 11:05 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/11/LI2005041100587.html

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 14 Jul 05 - 09:39 AM

Welcome to mudcat David.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 07:51 AM

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-1687681,00.html

The hate
Who planted the London bombs? Experts believe a new generation of angry young British Muslims has spawned its own terrorists. David Leppard and Nick Fielding report

Early last year, as Tony Blair struggled through the long and bitter political aftermath of the Iraq war, yet another bit of disturbing news turned up in his red boxes. A discussion paper prepared by senior civil servants, it raised a subject that last week came back to haunt him.

"The home secretary and the foreign secretary," he read, "have commissioned [this] paper for the prime minister on how to prevent British Muslims, especially young Muslims, from becoming attracted to extremist movements and terrorist activity."

The 36-page paper was littered with misspellings, bad grammar and the egregious waffle that the civil service has learnt from new Labour — "We have a 10-point action plan on engaging with ethnic minorities" — but it dealt presciently with the home-grown terrorism that the police and MI5 believe lies behind last Thursday's bomb outrages in London.

Focusing on young Muslims "who were either born in the UK or who have significant ties to it rather than those who have acquired British nationality more recently", the paper spelt out the disillusionment that might turn a Muslim loner into a bomber.

The prime minister read: "Often disaffected lone individuals unable to fit into their community will be attracted to university clubs based on ethnicity or religion, or be drawn to mosques or preaching groups in prison through a sense of disillusionment with their current existence."

The paper continued: "Policy should have two main aims: (a) to isolate extremists within the Muslim community, and . . . (b) to help young Muslims from becoming ensnared or bullied into participation in terrorist or extremist activity."

This was Whitehall's long-term counter-terrorist strategy codenamed Project Contest. As a strategy it can hardly be qualified as a success after last week's outrages, but it certainly identified the problem.

Intelligence experts and Islamic leaders agree that Thursday July 7 marks the bloody emergence of home-grown Islamic terrorism in Britain rather than the arrival of Al-Qaeda's bombers on these shores. The favourite hypothesis of investigators is that the bomb teams comprised a cell of some eight or nine young British Muslims, led by a foreign-born "talisman" figure who controlled and directed them.

"This is a very worrying situation," said M J Gohel, head of the London-based Asia Pacific Foundation which monitors Islamic terrorism. "We're looking at a new generation of terrorists — people who are not directly linked to Osama Bin Laden or Al-Qaeda so they can slip under the net of the security services. These are people born or brought up in western Europe, so they fit in but are infected by Bin Laden's ideology."

His view was echoed by a former radical who sometimes leads prayers at the Finsbury Park mosque in north London where Abu Hamza, the blind hook-armed cleric, used to preach.

"There is a growing phenomenon of angry young Muslims in Britain," said this man, who wished to remain anonymous. "I get many young people who watch Al-Jazeera or Al-Arabiya [the satellite TV channels] coming to me after Friday prayers saying they have seen the atrocities at Abu Ghraib or the defacing of Korans at Guantanamo and what should they do.

"I tell them to study, take care of their own lives, that if they are angry with George Bush or Tony Blair there is no point killing innocent people in Oxford Street. But there may be many more going to crazy people who tell them to take matters into their own hands. There is an absolute majority among Muslims who share the anti-US sentiment of Al-Qaeda and it is easy to harness that."

Who are these young British terrorists and why do they readily fall under the influence of "crazy people"? How are they recruited? How do they operate? What have the police and MI5 done to try to catch them? And are the non-violent majority of Muslim religious activists in Britain the real key to defeating them?

IN THE aftermath of September 11, 2001, British intelligence analysts warned ministers about a new breed of terrorist recruit.

Increasingly, hundreds of young Muslim men, most of them British born, were being drawn to the cause of fundamentalism. Radical websites and imams in mosques in London, Luton, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester were preaching holy war to disaffected young Muslims who were looking for a purpose.

Unlike the September 11 hijackers, the new terrorists did not have a rigid leadership structure. The majority of them had no criminal record and did not appear on any intelligence data bases linking them to terrorism. They were, in effect, "clean skins" and they were much more difficult to detect.

To counteract this danger, Project Contest was born in Whitehall. Its purpose was set out by Sir Andrew Turnbull, the cabinet secretary, in a letter to permanent secretaries at key government departments in April last year. He wrote: "The aim is to prevent terrorism by tackling its causes . . . to diminish support for terrorists by influencing social and economic issues."

Referring to the role played in this by radical preachers such as Abu Qatada (also known as Abu Omar), Turnbull explained: "Al-Qaeda and its offshoots provide a dramatic pole of attraction for the most disaffected."

Of particular concern was that the Islamist terrorist recruiters were targeting the poor and the jobless. An official audit provided to the Project Contest working committee showed that Muslims were three times more likely to be unemployed than the population as a whole.

Surveillance of the Muslim community by MI5 and Special Branch found that extremist groups were also operating within universities to recruit middle-class students. A small group of postgraduates at Imperial College and others at Brunel University in west London were of particular concern.

The paper prepared for the prime minister spelt out the breadth of the problem: "By extremism, we mean advocating or supporting views such as support for terrorist attacks against British or western targets, including the 9/11 attacks, or for British Muslims fighting against British and allied forces abroad, arguing that it is not possible to be Muslim and British, calling on Muslims to reject engagement with British society and politics, and advocating the creation of an Islamic state in Britain."

It stated that "a small number of young British Muslims are known to have committed or participated in terrorism abroad . . . a number of extremist groups operate in the UK and seek to recruit young Muslims . . . and an increasing number of British Muslims, often young, have needed UK consular services after being detained on suspicion of terrorist or extremist activity in other parts of the world (eg Yemen, Egypt and the US)".

The paper cited an intelligence estimate that the number of British Muslims engaged in terrorist activity, whether at home or abroad, or supporting it, was "less than 1%" of the UK's Muslim population of 1.6m. But that suggests that up to 16,000 may be involved — a numbing figure.

It went on to explain why these thousands of potential terrorists remain below the security radar: "Whilst many have grown up in Muslim households, a significant number come from liberal, non- religious Muslim backgrounds or only converted to Islam in adulthood. These converts include white British nationals and those of West Indian extraction.

"By and large most young extremists fall into one of two groups: well educated — undergraduates or with degrees and technical professional qualifications in engineering or IT — or under-achievers with few or no qualifications and often a criminal background.

"The former group is often targeted by extremist recruiters circulating among university-based religious or ethnic societies. Among the latter group some are drawn to mosques where they may be targeted by extremist preachers; others are radicalised or converted while in prison.

"However, a significant number of young radicalised British Muslims have been recruited through a single contact, often by chance, outside either of these environments. Such individuals are encouraged to maintain a low profile for operational purposes and do not develop the network of associates or political doctrines common to many other extremist Islamists."

One former radical insisted last week that recruitment is no longer taking place in mosques or Islamic organisations — which are now largely under the control of "moderates" — but in pubs, discos and casinos.

The exporting of home-grown jihadis — and their fanaticism — was confirmed in Iraq last month by a senior insurgent commander, "Abu Ahmad", who revealed that about 70 volunteers had arrived from Britain. Two had been killed fighting alongside him against American troops.

One of these, a 22-year-old known as Abu Hareth, had been born in Britain of Iraqi parents. He was killed in fighting in Falluja in April last year.

"When the battle intensified and due to his lack of military experience I asked him to take shelter in a basement. He refused my advice and told me off for asking him to hide and he said, 'I will hold this against you when the day of reckoning comes for you tried to prevent me from attaining martyrdom'," Abu Ahmad said.

Two brothers — Ammar, 22, and Yasser, 18 — arrived in Iraq from Britain after the fall of Baghdad in April 2003: "They could not wait to go out and fight and kept on asking when they will go into battle."

After about a month, Ammar was killed fighting American troops: "His younger brother Yasser, who witnessed Ammar's death, surprised us by shedding tears of joy and praising Allah for his brother's martyrdom."

The commander continued: "When we returned to our base we asked Yasser to return home, telling him it was enough that his family had lost one son; it would not be right if the second son was also killed and that there were others who would fight on his behalf here.

"But he refused and told us: 'What would I tell my mother? She will not accept me in the house for when she bid us farewell she told us either to return victorious or to achieve martyrdom. I cannot return. I have to finish off what Ammar my brother started here, and anyway I do not want to leave my brother all alone in this land. I want to be buried with him'. And he began to cry."

Abu Ahmad said that having been ordered home, Yasser wrote a letter revealing that when he had arrived in Britain his mother had celebrated on hearing about Ammar's death — "ululating with happiness and calling her friends and relatives to tell them the good news. She distributed sweets and juices in celebration to all those that came to pay their respect".

BRITISH politicians, civil servants and counter-terrorism specialists have been trying to tackle this fanaticism through a mixture of hearts-and-minds projects and increased policing.

Project Contest has led to new laws to curb the immigration of radical imams to Britain and to the controversial proposals, now before parliament, to outlaw incitement to religious hatred. Other initiatives included more government funding for moderate Islamic newspapers, television and radio stations. Measures to create "Muslim friendly" workplaces with more prayer rooms were proposed as well as special mortgages that would enable Muslims, barred by the religion from paying interest, to buy their own council houses.

At the same time, more resources have been allocated to detecting and preventing terrorist attacks. The sheer size of the pool of potential recruits has presented the police and MI5 with an enormous challenge, however.

After the September 11 attacks it quickly became apparent that the intelligence services were woefully understaffed. Eliza Manningham-Buller, who was made director-general of MI5 in October 2002, ran a successful Whitehall lobbying campaign to win funds for another 1,000 officers, a 50% increase in MI5's staffing.

The Metropolitan police special branch SO12, which carries out covert security operations against terrorism, also underwent a rapid expansion, increasing its staffing to more than 800 officers.

In the aftermath of the attacks on America there was, in the words of one senior police officer last week, "a huge intelligence gap". But in the past three years, he added, that gap had closed significantly as the understanding grew of how Al-Qaeda operated. By the beginning of this year there were some 2,500 Special Branch officers spread across England and Wales, with more than 700 in Scotland.

Since September 11 there have been more than 700 arrests of terrorist suspects. Critics of the stepped-up security point out that there have been only 17 convictions — and just three of these were linked to Al-Qaeda related activity.

That, critics said, suggested an over-reaction by the authorities. But insiders say that the figures reflected a deliberate policy. In the past, counter-terrorist operations against the IRA's bombing campaigns would see suspects being followed for months before sufficient evidence was gathered to arrest them.

The IRA had a relatively small number of known operatives whose movements were relatively easy to track. But Al-Qaeda and its affiliates posed an unspecified, mostly unknown and little understood threat of a catastrophic attack in which thousands of people might be killed.

In those circumstances it was decided that no risks would be taken: policing was designed to disrupt and destabilise terrorist activity before it could result in the loss of lives. That meant arresting people as soon as they became known as terrorist suspects. The priority was not gathering evidence for any future court case but protecting the country from attack.

Recently, senior police and intelligence officials became confident that they had "broken the back" of the Al-Qaeda threat to Britain. With the apparent closing of the "intelligence gap", a more relaxed mood of confidence began to percolate throughout the intelligence community. Earlier this year the security services began to talk about reverting to the old IRA policy of letting suspects run before launching raids to arrest them.

At the same time as this new arrest policy gained ascendancy in Whitehall security circles, analysts began to observe a change in the type of suspect being arrested from foreign-born to British. Trials at the Old Bailey next year will reveal that the majority of the defendants are British citizens.

The vast majority of suspects now on MI5's watch list have no previous involvement with terrorism. And not being watched at all are the army of "clean skins" or "lily-whites" whose existence is suspected by the authorities but who are still unidentified. It is these invisible young men who may have formed the backbone of the terror cell that struck the heart of London on Thursday morning.

There are various reasons for believing that they were not Al-Qaeda operatives. Intelligence sources say that the organisation claiming responsibility after the attacks, the Secret Organisation of Al-Qaeda in Europe, has not previously shown up on their radar screens beyond one mention on a website when they were demanding the withdrawal of Bulgarian troops from Iraq.

According to one former associate of Bin Laden, the wording of their statement was unusual. "Their description of the Prophet and also referring to an Arabic nation was not part of the culture of Al-Qaeda," he said. "I think the attack was carried out by admirers of Bin Laden, not associates. He has become this kind of iconic hero to a lot of disgruntled people. They have probably never met him or anyone close to him."

Other sources pointed out that Al-Qaeda is now a loose umbrella organisation since the post-September ll crackdowns and many extremist groups are using the Al-Qaeda handle. "Everyone is flying in the air when they talk of Al-Qaeda," agreed one former member now living in London. "We can't say who is a leader, who is not, so there is an open window for anyone to claim they are."

THE ROOT of the problem in the eyes of many foreign security operatives remains London's reputation as a haven for extremists.

"It may not be the moment to say it," said a defence ministry official in Paris, "but London is paying for its mistakes, for allowing all those radical organisations from Saudis to Pakistanis to set up shop in London, put out newsletters, make recruits and gather funds to finance their activities."

Young men from Algeria and Morocco, including members of Islamist armed organisations, came to Britain in the early 1990s to escape persecution by the security forces in their home countries. They were granted asylum and some have since lived on welfare. Supporters of the Armed Islamic Group, known then as the GIA, used mosques such as Finsbury Park and Brixton, in south London, to raise funds to buy guns and bankroll a terror campaign that cost tens of thousands of lives in Algeria. They engaged in blackmail, drug dealing and credit card fraud to support their fundraising in London, Manchester and Birmingham.

In April 1994, after raids on GIA suspects in Paris, police found documents said to be "GIA communiqués" sanctioning the murder of Algerian police officers. Fax numbers were traced to London addresses in Southall, Mile End, Brixton, Finsbury Park and Richmond. A French investigating magistrate came to London to try to interview eight of those linked to the documents. But he was apparently blocked by the British authorities.

The French were so concerned about the role of the GIA and other groups in London that they authorised illegal spying operations against them in London — without telling the British.

Reda Hassaine, an Algerian journalist who came to Britain in the early 1990s, ended up working for MI5 and French intelligence, reporting on radicals inside the Muslim community. But Hassaine believes that despite huge efforts, the government and the security forces have been been far too complacent in dealing with the threat.

For more than a decade, Hassaine says, Britain has been a "soft touch" for Islamist radicals who used it as a fundraising and propaganda base to launch attacks in Algeria and elsewhere: "The groups here now are much more independent of each other. There are plenty of them and they've been here in London for a long time."

One former Algerian jihadi may hold the answer to the terrorist threat. When he was 24, Abdullah Anas reached a turning point in his life. A member of the Muslim Brotherhood and an imam, he had been brought up on stories of the long war for Algeria's independence from France. Now he decided it was his turn to take up the gun for a cause: in his case, jihad.

Anas travelled to Peshawar in Pakistan and then walked for 40 days to northern Afghanistan. He lost most of his toenails, but "I felt I was reborn when I first got there . . . Even though I was sick for 10 days, I was so happy to be walking along with my Kalashnikov and with my brothers".

He fought there for eight years, becoming close to Bin Laden. But he was eventually disillusioned. "I am proud God chose me to be part of that holy war. I went there prepared to become a martyr. But it was very sad for me to see that once they had liberated their own land, they were unable to build their country. It was a big lesson for me," he said last week.

"I realised that Muslims can win the battle, but can't stabilise afterwards and win the peace. I saw it with my own eyes. I saw the same in Algeria, where my father and grandfather fought for freedom from the French, but once we had it, it fell to pieces. The Muslim fighters know how to die, but not how to live."

Anas was among the wave of Algerians receiving asylum in Britain. He learnt English and now works as a company secretary and teaches Arabic and Koranic studies. The board of trustees running Finsbury Park mosque since the overthrow of its radical regime regularly invites him to preach to congregations of 1,000.

His message is both outspokenly Muslim and adamantly against violence. London is a safe haven for Muslims, he says: "In some ways London is the closest thing we can get to the society described by the Koran. God said, I created you as many nations, tribes and languages. That is what we have here. None of us should seek to impose our views or values on the other."

He says this way of relating to life in London, as set down by the Prophet, is not simply a choice: "It is an obligation. We are part of this society and I tell my congregations that this is why I want them to know what the Prophet himself did.

"Anyone targeting this society is my enemy. They are targeting me and my family as much as anyone else, no matter who they are."

He added: "Like many Muslims I am angered by what the Americans are doing in Iraq or the Israelis do in Palestine. But injustices must be dealt with by scholars and politicians, not by hotheads.

"These recruiters and terrorists, they are simply trying to use the anger of the young for their own agenda. Of course there is anger, but these criminals are trying to pervert it. I am not a hypocrite or an agent either of the United States or Bin Laden. This is my religion, what I believe in."

Additional reporting: Matthew Campbell, Hala Jaber, Christina Lamb, Robert Winnett

TURNIG FROM BRITAIN'S YOUTH CULTURE TO ISLAM'S CERTAINTIES

The biggest division among Britain's youth is no longer class, it's religion. For one group there is MSN, the X-box, T4, Jay-Z, Diamond White, Pot Noodles, Maybelline Great Lash mascara and sex. For the other there are five daily prayers, hijab, arranged marriages, a lifelong relationship with Allah and the spectres of honour killings and terrorism.

"We try not to separate ourselves," said Nirma Muslim, an 18-year-old Leicester schoolgirl. "But I have to admit that the majority of places me and my friends go are Islamic."

Is it that Muslim children have become more religious than their parents? Professor Akbar Ahmed, the world's leading authority on contemporary Islam, first noticed a shift towards militancy here in the 1980s. "The Muslim generation of the Sixties were more interested in making a name for themselves on the cricket field or in the literary field but now the equivalent generation want to make a name for themselves by going out and fighting a physical and violent jihad in the name of Islam."

Why? "Unlike American Muslims, British Muslims tend towards a much closer relationship with their motherlands and live in more detached communities. Because of globalisation, technology, and the media, they also have a sense of being a 'global Muslim'."

Zubair Patel, a 19-year-old Muslim of Indian descent studying for his A-levels at Regent sixth-form college in Leicester, thinks a generation of young men and women now of university age were shaped by 9/11.

"If you dressed like a Muslim at that time, people would hassle you in the street. It forced us to look for an identity and ask, 'Do I want to be in the mainstream or do I want to say I am Muslim?'" He started wearing the shalwar kameez (with a Burberry sweatshirt and a Prada beanie).

"I am not one of those Muslims who take part in the whole western thing, like drinking and drugs," he said. "Those people get portrayed as the moderate Muslims — like that's what you should be like if you're living in Britain."

"Some people get tempted to join in," said his friend Rabi Miah, 17. "But you have to look within yourself and decide that instead of a club you go out for dinner with your friends."

Zubair said: "I've been back to where my parents grew up in India and in their neighbourhood they had two mosques. Here we have four mosques on our street and an Islamic boarding school on the corner. They had two scholars, Leicester has 165. England has given us a greater chance to become more devout than our parents."

"It's sad in a sense, though," said Nirma. "Although we were born and brought up here, we are not experiencing Britain."

"But what's the alternative?" asked Zubair. "Going clubbing and getting high?" He confessed: "I'd like to find it within myself to go up to any non-Muslim on the street and say, 'This is who I am. Who are you? Lets have a chat'."

"It's harder to do than it sounds, though," said Rabi Miah.

As a child, Na'ima B Robert liked carol singing but never thought of herself as religious. "I was nominally feminist, and when I went on a trip to Egypt after a really wild summer before my second year of university I was bothered by the women in hijab. It was only when I asked one of them why she was covering up that it hit me. She said, 'I want to be judged for what I say and what I do — not what I look like'."

A year later Na'ima converted to Islam. A year after that she had guardians arrange a marriage. She felt liberated by her religion, and joined a growing number of Islamic feminists who feel hijab frees them from having to rely on beauty as their primary currency.

"Anyone who's ever smelt the reek of vomit on the side of the road can understand a little bit of the sense in the Koran," she said. "But more than that Islam answered the biggest question you have as a young person, 'Why are we here?'" Her friends and family were less pleased with her transformation. "My father was very upset. He felt like he would lose his daughter to Islam. Socially, my university friends and me were left with little in common. My religion is not something you do for two hours on a Friday. It's holistic and hard to sustain when you're not around people who help you."

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,Interested
Date: 10 Jul 05 - 07:45 AM

http://www.panthic.org/news/124/ARTICLE/1516/2005-07-10.html?sid=b593fe491022386a1e6e6c61549ff4ef

Muslims Sentenced For Religion Bias Killing
Sunday 10th July, 2005
Fauja Singh - Panthic Weekly Staff

London, UK (KP) - Two Muslim men were jailed for life for killing of an innocent Sikh man wrongly targeted because they did not like relationship between another Sikh man and a Muslim women.

Major Singh Gill was murdered in cold blood at his shop in the West Midlands, after being attacked by six Muslims. This week his to murderers received prison sentences. Shimraz Kahn, 35, got a minimum of 18 years Waheed Akhtar, 22, was given 15 years.

Stafford Crown Court heard how Mr Gill was killed by the two Muslim men, Shimraz Kahn and Waheed Akhtar, who believed Mr Gill's son to be having a relationship with a young Muslim woman.

Two others were found not guilty. It is believed two other suspects fled to Pakistan. The court heard how Mr Gill, 45, a Sikh and father of three was attacked in his shop in West Bromwich by six men. Mr Gill, of Duke Street, Wednesfield, died in the hospital of head injuries sustained during the attack at his Cost Cutter shop on Pemberton Road.

Prosecutor Anthony Barker, QC said Mr Gill was the victim of a deliberate and planned killing. He described how this was a planned attack on this innocent Sikh business man. "Some men had clubs, iron bars and hockey sticks and inside his shop the shopkeeper was clubbed to death," he said. "Yet the people who killed him had set out to kill someone else. They killed a perfectly innocent man who had done absolutely nothing."

He said the story behind the killing was complicated but involved the relationship of a Sikh man and a Muslim woman. It is thought that the groups of Muslim men did not like the fact a Sikh man having a relationship with a Muslim woman secretly for over a year.

Mr Akhtar, of Essex Street, Walsall, who was given 15 years, had claimed he was sitting in a van outside the store when the attack happened. Mr Kahn gave his address as Bloxwich Road, Walsall.

Two other accused, Fiaz Ali, 30, of Croft Street, Walsall and Raja Hussain, 24, of Bloxwich Road, Walsall were cleared of the attack.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: jpk
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 06:56 PM

ps have a nice day an god bless all

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: jpk
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 06:55 PM

you mention hate crimes;are not most vicious crimes,hate crimes, and here in the us. it is far easier to make a crime to be race motivative, if it is white[sic] on black[or any other so called minority],than if it is the other way around;or is this more of the price for embracing diversity[is it one more way to divide us into ever smaller easer controled groups],[seems so to me,they say we have to accept diversity(make more divisive,divide,seperate,spread out,split up).are they setting us up for stalins last laugh,to defeat us from within,think of the old military stratigim of divide and conquer,is it working here. hmmmm could be maybe so,weather planned or not hmmmm!

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 06:35 PM

Congratulations Liz The Squeak :-)

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 06:10 PM

I have no broadcastable opinion on this subject - I just wanted to get post 300!!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 05:17 PM

Still can't answer any questions GUEST! lolol.

Here are a few facts about searchlight for you too. :-)

Gable is a convicted burglar. His staff writer Manny Carpel did time for arson, and has a number of convictions for sickening violence too.

DAVE ROBERTS Editorial board member of Searchlight magazine and criminal

Roberts joined the editorial board of Searchlight magazine in 1974 and infiltrated political organisations for Searchlight throughout the mid 1970's. Infiltrating some lunatic fringe organisations led him to being convicted at Birmingham Crown Court of conspiring with others to burn down an Asian restaurant. He was only given a suspended sentence, which he later served as a result of a criminal conviction. Despite such events, Roberts continued to work for Searchlight for some years.

MICHAEL COHEN (Searchlight photographer, shareholder in Searchlight

Publishing Ltd and criminal. Involved & found guilty of the 1963 burglary alongside Gable and Roberts. He also pleaded guilty to the W.H. Jonesbreak-in with Carpel.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 04:51 PM

bnp nazi links.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 04:43 PM

Also, i asked YOU questions many posts ago, here they are again? Fair is fair, it can't all be one way. lol

A few questions for you.

1) Do you think most muslim fathers support mixed relationships?

2) if there was a referendum on having a multi-cultural state, do you think it would be a yes or no vote.

3) Do you believe anti-white racist attacks occur in the UK? If so, can you please name me one?

4) Are you able to answer the points raised in the post i posted sometime back above? Or are you unable?

5) How many BNP members have you met?

6) The letter you posted from BNP to John Tyndall banning him from speaking. We stopped him speaking, and he has also now expelled. What did you want us to do? Keep him in? The guy is an old nazi, so we expelled him! Do you have a problem with that?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 04:41 PM

Brucie, i have answered questions again and again on the convictions, some real some not, of bnp members in this thread and on the previous thread. As for criminal convictions, i could also ask a few on here who have refused to answer MY QUESTION about why they quote searchlight editor gerry gable, a man convicted of robbery as a reliable source of information on the BNP? Will they ever answer the same question you have asked me, and of which i have answered in the past.

You are not fooling anyone by trying to dodge the the issue at hand, which is muslim intolerance. To be quite honest, i think this thread is running its course, albeit it is with me anyway. lol.

Most of us agree that intolerance, from whatever background should be challenged, and most of us agree, in regard to the subject, i.e muslim intolerance, that it is only a MINORITY of muslims who purport the more extreme sentiments, and most of us agree that Keighley is seeing a racist network of Muslims grooming young white girls into drugs and prostitution, hence the local Labour MP Ann Cryer citing it as an 'asian problem'.

I don't actually agree that it is an asian problem because i think to call it an asian problem is generalizing and demonizing a whole people in one go.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 02:36 PM

You have not yet addressed the question of why so many of the BNP have criminal records--some to do with rape, robbery and hate crimes. Tell us about that, David.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 04:27 AM

Grooming is of course a crime that takes place worldwide, however, we have enough problems here in the UK, and these close to home problems, been close, they can be tackled. It is not in my,or many of us, remit to actually do something about grooming taking place in the Far-East, but it is within our scope to act upon something on our doorstep.

SO it is not narrow, it is just realistic, people have an interest in this nation, it is the nation we pay tax so we believe it would further and better this country, clearly that does not happen.

You cite the example the 14 year old Iranian girl who was 'seeing' a young german. Yes, it's one of those examples, i mean, i disagree completely with a 14 year old girl seeing a German 22. It is a disgrace. ANother instance of perverts running amok.

The reason i refer to Asians in Keighley as Asians, is because to call them Pakistanis is untrue. They are not from Pakistan, they are from the UK, they are born in the UK. I am of course reffering to second, third generation UK born. The asians grooming young girls in Keighley are born in the country. First generation pakistanis, from my experience deplore the way their children behave, westernized to the extent they have no roots, and when it comes to drug dealing, the elders condemn this fully.

I think it is a bit hasty to claim to know what ethnics 'prefer' to be called. I also think it is irrelvant, as i'm not going to tiptoe on cobbled stones in order not to offend. Unless someone was calling someone a vicious name of abuse then i would speak out, but aside from that, it is irrelvant.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 10:54 PM

David - You have a very narrow perspective on the world.

Grooming is a crime that takes place worldwide. It is not the specific domain of any single group of people. In Vancouver, it is has been found that the girls that are targetted are the most vulnerable for a variety of reasons. Often they are from single parent families or impoverished families.

I know for a fact that a 14 year old Iranian, girl in Germany was "seeing" a young German that was 22. When her family found out, she was put under "house arrest" by her grandmother. Her uncles walk her to and from school daily. It wasn't about race or religion, it was about the age difference.

Since when were people from Pakistan called Asians? I thought Asians were this sort of huge group of people from China. I know that the people in Vancouver do not like to be referred to as Asians. They prefer to be called Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, Balinese, etc. Why don't you call the men from Pakistan, Pakistanis?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: jpk
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 05:00 PM

try this on for size,one great way for hard core muslim extremest to reduce copetition for the avalible nuber of wivies/aka slaves,is to convince the weak willed mebers around them to carry out there suicide warfare[vast majority of bombers being male]it reduces the number of competores for the supply of females.                      the same thing appers to be taking place here in the u.s. with a relgious [flds] spliter group from the mormon church[more rel. fanatics]centered around grant utah i think[have to go back and look it up]not near as drastic as the muslim fanatic[only brainwashed exile] but all to the same ends.power begats corruption,this set of cases nothing more than weak men lording over women through fear being the end goal weather we realize it and admit it or not

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 02:37 PM

"Returning to the issue, i don't think we should be targeting any ONE group which displays intolerance to another group, i believe we should be targeting all groups that display intolerance."

I agree, David. That statement has us on the same side of the issue for the FIRST time.

But then, that's why the BNP is being targeted here. It displays intolerance. So why do you belong to them?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 02:23 PM

The police investigation into grooming has resulted in one conviction and eight people, white and Asian, being charged with offences ranging from rape to indecent assault.

Colin Cramphorn, the chief constable, said white and Asian men had been arrested following a two-year investigation and the matter was one of child protection which had nothing to do with race, despite the claims of the far right.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 01:49 PM

Shame? What, shame that my grandfather fought against nazism? Why, do you have a problem with that? I certainly don't. Can you answer? I don't suppose you will?

Of course i am struggling at times, on the other hand i am happily recieving enough PM's of support, including a new member who is joining and getting involved in the BNP's folk music project. On the other thread i was involved i have been personally invited to sing at a hull folk club :-)

As for the actual debate here, i have made my stance clear, i.e asians grooming white girls into drugs and prostitution is simply unacceptable.

Look, would you rather me hate people? It seems you are more offended that i DONT hate people? What, do i not fit in with your stereotypical image of someone patriotic?

Stop embarrasing yourself. Also, i have never quoted Nick Griffin! I don't know if you are the same person, as you hide sadly behind GUEST, but if you are the same person who thought Nick Griffin was already in prison, i suggest you get your facts right, and try to at least keep up with current issues.

Again, you snipe, but facts are facts, many Keighley young girls are subjected to grooming by asians, (albeit a minority of asians) and until that is combatted there will be a problem.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 12:29 PM

"The tragedy is like most decent thinking people, we all hate nazi's, that is not the discussion. I hate Nazi's because for one, my granfather and other relatives fought against that tyranny, and two, if Hitler woul d have had his way my neice would have been in a concentration camp."

Have you no shame..? sorry trick question....obviously you don't because in one paragraph you are quoting Nock Griffin a known Nazi that leads the Politcial Party that you Organise and when it suits you change tack and use a family members as a tactic, bloody hell is there nothing you would stoop to!
Tell you what you, you are one mixed up Rascist.
I was going to come and give you hand to dig a hole but you Know what...your doing fine all by yourself you plonker.

Nobody,literally Nobody here gives a toss about what you think...but your struggling with that aren't you lolololol
You realy are embarassing yourself on here now. Not that I don't enjoy that but the humanitarian in me is urging me to let you know.
Sod it David, read your posts back to yourself...your disappearing up your own arse mate.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: DavidHannam
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 12:06 PM

I suppose in truth, this is part of the problem. Without wanting to digress too much from the main issue here, i.e muslim intolerance, which i have highlighted in the case of Keighley where young asians are grooming young white girls into drugs and often prostitution, the problem is, well, for one, no-one seems able, either through mental inability to actually challenge my points, questions etc, and to disguise that fact some resort to what can only be called infantile 'name-calling', hence nazi, fascist etc.

The tragedy is like most decent thinking people, we all hate nazi's, that is not the discussion. I hate Nazi's because for one, my granfather and other relatives fought against that tyranny, and two, if Hitler woul d have had his way my neice would have been in a concentration camp.

Returning to the issue, i don't think we should be targeting any ONE group which displays intolerance to another group, i believe we should be targeting all groups that display intolerance. Many people happily attack white people for intolerance, and where that intolerance takes place, by all means attack it, of course, but we also need to attack intolerance displayed by other groups, or else feelings fester on both groups, one feels it is not equal to the other in treatment. We should not be afraid to critisize any group for fear of a bashing over the head with the 'you are racist' stick.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: DavidHannam
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 11:58 AM

Brucie, you seem to be struggling. hahaha

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: DavidHannam
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 11:56 AM

C'mon Guest, can't you muster the brains to reply to my below email i posted? Or are you struggling?





Guest Wrote:

"I don't disagree or agree because I honestly cannot unpack that statement. What do you mean by Asians? Thats a pretty broad brush you are using. What do you mean by white girls?"

Jeez, i mean by Asians as in ASIANS who are the pre-dominant ones grooming young white girls in Keighley, i.e asians second, third generation offspring from original asians from pakistan!

What do i mean by what girls? Are you completely stupid, what do you want? shades of pale?

Guest wrote:"If they are girls, where are their parents? Is there a law against grooming?"

Where are their parents? Their parents are elswhere whilst outside Keighley schools asians wait outside in cars to groom young girls! Or are you blaming parents for asians waiting outside school gates? You seem a very hateful person if that is what you are suggesting?

Guest Wrote:"Seems to me that parents should be on the look out for this so that their daughters do not become prey and possibly victims. Since when does the government act on something that is so vague. What do you expect them to do, lock up the white girls?"

No i expect them to lock up the aggressors, why would they lock up the victim???? I don't know where you are from, but you seem to be confused about how the system is supposed to work, protect the victim, punish the guilty, that is how it works! Vague? What is vague about a situation the police, media and local mp all accept is happening??????

You seem very determinded to blame the parents of the victims for this grooming? Personally i think that is a little sick, here we have young girls who have often been lured into drug addiction and sexual abuse and you want to blame the parents?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 11:55 AM

In the vernacular, "You pooched it, Dave."

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: DavidHannam
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 11:53 AM

lol, you all seem to not get the point to my message. He was ranting about jews in this letter, hence a 'jew rant'.

Hence, i called him a nazi crank! You get? Maybe many of you are not aware, but nazi's tend to rant about jews, hence that is why they are cranks?

Poor children, must everything be explained?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 11:15 AM

It doesn't take much for him to lose it does it?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Alba
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 10:37 AM

Hey Bruce, "ridiculous Jewish rant"...AND this ridiculos Jewish rant eas made by "an old nazi crank"...
Indeed that says it all. An old Jewish Nazi crank....pricelss.

ROFLMAO

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 10:18 AM

"ridiculous jew rant"

THAT SAYS IT ALL, DAVID.

Little slip there? LOLOLOL

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 08:01 AM

lmao, oh my god, mate, i take it you have read Dr David Michaels ridiculous jew rant and surmised my guilt?

It is actually against party rules to have a couple as organiser and fund holder, lol, no i was never a fund holder, neither my girlfriend.

Have you started listening to that nazi's rants have you? Intersting source you have there! Why don't you actually post the full letter of lies and show him up for what he really is, an old nazi crank.

C'mon, give me some credit, if you are going to attack me, and not bother answer my points, presumably because you can't, then actually give me something remotely based around fact or truth.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 07:51 AM

David you were previously relieved of your duties as Hull organiser of the BNP due to you stealing the funds. The leadership never wanted you reinstated. They did so to appease their scum membership.

What did you spend the cash on? Why did you steal from your members? Is your girlfriend still the treasurer?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 07:34 AM

Erm...yeah, do you want to post this a 3rd time? Or is this as constructive as you get?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 07:31 AM

The police investigation into grooming has resulted in one conviction and eight people, white and Asian, being charged with offences ranging from rape to indecent assault.

Colin Cramphorn, the chief constable, said white and Asian men had been arrested following a two-year investigation and the matter was one of child protection which had nothing to do with race, despite the claims of the far right.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 07:27 AM

Yes Guest, of course the police are MORE than eager to accuse the asian community of racist grooming in West Yorkshire at the moment? The police battered by the bludgeon of 'institutional racism' dare not even act on this issue.

Clive White, Telegraph and Argus (Bradford, England), Feb. 26

A 32-year-old man picked up as part of a police probe into teenage girls being groomed for sex by Asian men was starting a two-and-a-half year jail sentence today.

Father-of-three Shabir Ahmed admitted at Bradford Crown Court to plying a 13-year-old Keighley girl with alcohol and indecently assaulting her on moorland.

Garage owner Ahmed, of Belgrave Road, Keighley, has been placed on the Sex Offenders' register for life.

Operation Parsonage, which ran for more than a year, has now closed down and he is the last to face the courts as part of the operation.

In all, ten people were charged with offences ranging from rape to intimidation of witnesses.

The parents of the teenager, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, say they have still not been able to return to work because of the stress and expected the sentence to be tougher.

"After what we have been through—the torment and heartache—it doesn't seem enough," said her 42-year-old father.

Her 36-year-old mother said she feared her daughter might never recover from her ordeal.

"It was a terrible experience. She now has to carry that for the rest of her life. She will never recover properly."

Both say they still recall the horror of seeing their daughter arrive home on the night of the attack in a terrible state.

The court heard yesterday how the teenager, described as vulnerable at the time of the assault in November 2003, returned home half-undressed, with love bites on her and unable to remember what had happened.

Judge Linda Sutcliffe said the girl may have thought she had been raped. She said: "The uncertainty that she found herself in as to what had gone on must have been chilling."

Prosecutor John Worrall said: "The complainant herself is not able to recall anything about the actual assault.

"Her recollection is only as to what happened before the assault itself."

She said she saw Ahmed on Sunny Mount, Keighley, at about 9pm and he invited her into the car.

He bought drink, including a small bottle of vodka, at an off-licence on the way to Riddlesden and then stopped on the moors.

She remembered drinking some vodka and coke, but after leaving the car to go to the toilet she fell and banged her head.

When she returned to the car some of her clothing was removed and Ahmed then indecently assaulted her.

After forensic tests on her clothing, Ahmed was arrested in February last year. He had a previous conviction for assaulting a prostitute.

He claimed the girl had told him she was 16 and at first denied that anything untoward had happened.

Barrister Tahir Khan, for Ahmed, said he maintained that the girl never said she was 13, but he now accepted he must have realised she was a young person.

He said: "The incident occurred at a time when his relationship with his wife had broken down. This is not, in my submission, a man who habitually preys on young girls. This was an isolated occasion".

After imposing the jail sentence, Judge Sutcliffe told Ahmed that he would also have to register as a sex offender with the police for the rest of his life and would also be subject to a period of licenced supervision following his release.

A police spokesman said:"The Parsonage operation investigated claims about older Asian men targeting vulnerable white girls.

"The inquiry had resulted in ten people—nine men and a woman—being charged with offences ranging from rape and indecent assault to witness intimidation."

The special operation had now closed but detectives would still be investigating any other alleged offences relating to young girls being targeted.

And a number of cases of a "Parsonage-type" nature were now being dealt with.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 05:21 AM

The police investigation into grooming has resulted in one conviction and eight people, white and Asian, being charged with offences ranging from rape to indecent assault.

Colin Cramphorn, the chief constable, said white and Asian men had been arrested following a two-year investigation and the matter was one of child protection which had nothing to do with race, despite the claims of the far right.
But last night .

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 04:55 AM

Guest Wrote:

"I don't disagree or agree because I honestly cannot unpack that statement. What do you mean by Asians? Thats a pretty broad brush you are using. What do you mean by white girls?"

Jeez, i mean by Asians as in ASIANS who are the pre-dominant ones grooming young white girls in Keighley, i.e asians second, third generation offspring from original asians from pakistan!

What do i mean by what girls? Are you completely stupid, what do you want? shades of pale?

Guest wrote:"If they are girls, where are their parents? Is there a law against grooming?"

Where are their parents? Their parents are elswhere whilst outside Keighley schools asians wait outside in cars to groom young girls! Or are you blaming parents for asians waiting outside school gates? You seem a very hateful person if that is what you are suggesting?

Guest Wrote:"Seems to me that parents should be on the look out for this so that their daughters do not become prey and possibly victims. Since when does the government act on something that is so vague. What do you expect them to do, lock up the white girls?"

No i expect them to lock up the aggressors, why would they lock up the victim???? I don't know where you are from, but you seem to be confused about how the system is supposed to work, protect the victim, punish the guilty, that is how it works! Vague? What is vague about a situation the police, media and local mp all accept is happening??????

You seem very determinded to blame the parents of the victims for this grooming? Personally i think that is a little sick, here we have young girls who have often been lured into drug addiction and sexual abuse and you want to blame the parents?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 08:18 PM

Thanks, GUEST. All I looked at was the small pictures and my eyesight is the pits without glasses on.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 08:15 PM

Actually, brucie, there was one woman:

1997 - The Sunday Mirror photographed several far right activists attending a Ku Klux Klan meeting at her East London flat.
1997-1999 - leading member of the National Front and for some time its East London organiser.
2000 - Was refused entry to a BNP rally in Milton Keynes because of her KKK past. Within the year she was once again active in the BNP.

I don't blame you for not recognizing her as a woman.

I hope the government prosecutes all of them for spreading hate.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 06:38 PM

Click on individual pictures. It gives info about each.

I notice there are no women or people of colour. Interesting crew you have there, Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 06:24 PM

"Now you really did sound like a shrieking girl". LOL...Girl yes, shrieking...no! I never shriek. I have a very low to medium toned voice. Mellow is the general opinion in reviews.

Rattled...please..don't flatter yourself, you lack that ability.

"can YOU refute my arguments"...yes I can actually but...

Again...boy oh boy, you don't READ to well do you! I am most certainly NOT aiding your Party to use this Forum and in particular this Thread as a Rascist SoapBox. Got it. Good.

Poor, no I am rather well off actually and grateful for it.

Ok Ill cut you a break. I won't post again and then ALL the other people that wish to respond to you can come in and get down to Business.

Time for bed as I am off on Holiday tomorrrow. So...I know you will miss me (who wouldn't..:>) but I am SURE there is someone else, maybe a real shrieking girl or Boy even, that will jump right in behind me so you don't get too lonely on this Thread.

Enjoy. Goodnight and don't let the Paranoia bite Mr. Hannam.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 06:22 PM

"Do you disagree that Keighley Asians are grooming white girls?"

I don't disagree or agree because I honestly cannot unpack that statement. What do you mean by Asians? Thats a pretty broad brush you are using. What do you mean by white girls? If they are girls, where are their parents? Is there a law against grooming? Seems to me that parents should be on the look out for this so that their daughters do not become prey and possibly victims. Since when does the government act on something that is so vague. What do you expect them to do, lock up the white girls?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 06:06 PM

Poor fighting 'racism', rattled already. Now you really did sound like a shrieking girl.

Aside from your little tantrum, again, forget others, can YOU refute my arguments? Do you disagree that Keighley Asians are grooming white girls?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,Fighting Rascism
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 05:32 PM

I have never been and NEVER will be your MATE...I wouldn't piss on you if you were on Fire.
Your agruments HAVE ALREADY been refuted.
Griffin isn't in Jail yet then..lol...well it's only a matter of time...let's not nitpick.

What you cite is RACISM...pure and simple.
You don't care about discussing MUSLIM INTOLERANCE. All you see this Thread as is a cheap way to push your Party's rhetoric. As I said pathetic really that this is your Party's way of getting it's message out there but hey any port a storm..lol

I am most certainly NOT aiding your Party to use this Forum and in particular this Thread as a Rascist SoapBox.

Get a grip on what is actually happening within your Party!



Deal with it or not....either way I couldn't give a Rat's arse,
matey..lol

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 05:04 PM

Fighting racism.

Rather than make generalized comments about my posts, which in truth any one can do, why not actually refute my arguments, etc.

I mean, you even thought Nick griffin was currently in prison, i mean for godsake, get a grip on what is actually happening.

If you actually compare the number of posts on here, i.e mine versus others, you will see that more than anyone else involved in the debate, i have generally always been polite, with the exception of Brucie, (but c'mon, brucie loves it too really) and i have always tried to stick to the issue.

The issue been MUSLIM INTOLERANCE. As an example of intolerance, i have cited Keighley where it is accepted by all that mass asian grooming of young white girls is taking place? Or are you the only one who disputes that?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 04:56 PM

Fight Racism wrote:

"Ah Nick Griffin, he is currently serving 7 years at one of HM Prisons for spreading Rascial hate".

Ha, Nick Griffin is NOT serving 7 years at all in HM Prison? My god, try to keep up with the news mate.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,FIghting Rascism
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 04:55 PM

The LAW needs to turn it's full attention to Rascists like yourself David.
You brought up the questions of Education and Degrees...not Bruce Murdoch. You made your personal Life public and slurred another Member (one who you would know nothing about as they did not make their personal information available to you) What you have to understand is that everything you say on this Forum is Public.
You, however, as a newcomer, do not undersatnd that many of the people that post here are very well aware of each other's qualifications and opinions. The amount of very well educated, proffesional people here on the Mudcat is actually staggering.
All of whom have debated and discussed many issues here for Years.
You, however, are under the impression that you are revealing some unknown, awe, shock, horror details which to many of us are plain and simple Rascist hype. We have heard it before though our Jobs and in many other places. You are not telling us froma rascist persepctive that we haven't already heard before!
You may indeed, due to Party loyalty, deflect from Nick Griffin's crimes by shooting the messengers but it will not make the facts of his past, present and most likely future activities go away.
Several educated people have offered responses to your claims.
Instead of looking seriously at these responses you refuse to see beyond your mindset.
You seem to be assuming that Fact can be debated?
What you bring up in the Forum, regardless of when, will be read and then answered according to the feelings of the persons responding. There is no time limit on any particluar statement made on any post here.
You have somewhat changed your style of presenting the BNP's case since you posted in the Music section.
At least there you admitted that some people knew how to give a BNP supporter a hard time.
You haven't even seen a hard time yet down here in the lighter, funfilled BS section.
Your not welcome by many here but you are entitled to post if the Moderators have no objection to the content of your posts.
Do not however think that the past is prologue where Rascists are concerned.
Slur someone 25 posts back on a Thread here and just like heartburn it will return to you thrice fold.
Statistics and fact are very difficult to dispute unfortunately but you seem to be under the impression that if you keep saying No No,No these will go away...
Wrong.
There are a lot more sources available to answer your claims than Google can provide.
You, however, only have a limited amount of sources that support your Party's Rascist agenda. Hence your Party's need to use a Musical Forum's BS section to get your point out there. That is rather pathetic.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 04:42 PM

BTW, David, it seems that when people don't agree with you you say 'they are not addressing the issue'. The issue is racism. You come across as someone who supports racists. Why do you associate with people like that?

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 04:29 PM

"Anything rather than face the issue here eh people? The issue here is not my degree, which i think i mentioned, erm..god...must be ages back, does it really take you that long Bruce to actually think of a retort?"

No, David. It takes me that long to issue the retort in a polite manner. Having done that, up yers.

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 04:23 PM

By the way, mine was not with distinction. doh

Subject: RE: BS: More Muslim Intolerance (2)
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 19 Jun 05 - 04:19 PM

Anything rather than face the issue here eh people? The issue here is not my degree, which i think i mentioned, erm..god...must be ages back, does it really take you that long Bruce to actually think of a retort?

Seems to me Guest would rather post silly articles written by that dubious organisation run by Gerry the Burglar Gable, yes, thats right, Nick Griffin may be looking towards a conviction for standing up for free speech, but what you quote Guest comes right from the mouth of a convicted burglar!!!! haha. it's too funny!

The issue is Muslim intolerance. I have cited the racist grooming of white girls in Keighley, of which we are all agreed. Let us not claim all muslims are the same, it is indeed a minority, but that minority needs to be challenged by the law, but the law is currently backward and completely undeterminded to act!