BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Alison M
Date: 21 Dec 06 - 03:13 PM

Keith A, it is not all the IRA's fault. Loyalists/Unionists have killed plenty of innocent people and the British played a part in this too. Loyalists have used no warning car bombs, for example in Dublin and they marched with the Orange Order Parade this year and held up posters of the dead loyalist convited murderer Robert Mc Connell, who kill many innocent Catholics with no warning car bombs and they said "the Catholics can clear up their own blood and that is the way it is going to be for now on in Ireland." If I could find this statement online I would have posted a link to it on here for everyone to read.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 01:45 PM

Peter,
sorry if my post above sounded as if all of it was a reply to you alone.
Only the first part was as a reply to your question.

The rest if it was general.
Best wishes
Divis.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 01:29 PM

Peter, I have seen two letters from the office of the Historical Inquiries Team. For obvious reasons I can't state publicly the names of those who signed them (not that the names would mean anything to you anyway). Both signatures made my blood boil. I know both of them (not personally ) and without sounding paranoid it was like a kick in the teeth to know these two individuals are to be part of this team. Both well known home grown ex RUC. I cannot or will not be pulled into saying anything more about either of them or the contents of the two letters.

Regarding actions referred to here carried out by members of the Provisional IRA prior to the Good Friday Agreement,the British government will not be pursing them through the courts seeking custodial sentences. Legislation to drop prosecutions for offences committed before the signing of the Good Friday Agreement was introduced by the British Government.


These were agreed by the two governments during Weston Park talks. They agreed not to pursue the prosecutions of those involved in so called crimes committed before April 1998 (take that one up with your government).

The PIRA were not appointed Guardians of law and order whereas the British army and police were. That is the big big difference.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 01:13 PM

Keith well spoken, our army shoots 14 gunmen in Londonderry and we are accused of murder, the British Army`s behaviour has been exemplary where ever we we went.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST,Keith A
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 12:38 PM

Yes we should be trying to move forward and no, blaming each other all the time does not achieve that Alison, but still your republicans keep starting these threads.
Defending their community?
LOOK at the numbers that they killed
Causing suffering IS what they did, with their car bombs in town centres etc., etc.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 12:37 PM

Are you Orville to Divis's Keith?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Alison M
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 12:26 PM

Divis would not be proud of any suffering that has been caused in Ireland by the PIRA. He is proud of them for defending their communtity from the UDA, UFF, LVF, UVF, and any other loyalist/unionist paramilitaries that exists or existed including the British UDR. I feel that all of us have played a part in the troubles. We are all to blame for what has happened over those years, which includes all the IRAs, all the loyalists/unionists, and the British too. We should be trying to move forward towards peace in Ireland. Blaming each other all the time does not achieve that. No one can undo the past events except try to build new bridges of peace for the sake of the children's future who live in Ireland. I know it can be difficult for some people that have lost relatives to move forward.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST,member
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 11:58 AM

f???? of Terribus

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:30 AM

I have read several of your apologies.
You say that you are sorry for the suffering caused by PIRA, but then you say you are proud of them for causing it.
That is worthless.
If I am so ignorant of your campaign you should be able to overcome my arguments easily.
This is a global forum. You can not expect to retrict discussion to your own countrymen. You have frequently pontificated on English matters.
There are no members putting the Loyalist case. We are your only opposition but you would prefer none?

I am rather lowly to speak on behalf of the army, but I turn down no reasonable request.
I apologise for wrong doing by any soldier in Ireland
By wrong doing I include robbery and unlawful killing.
Any guilty soldier should be prosecuted and I would help in that if I could.

Now will you say the same about PIRA volunteers?

Now will you reply to Teribus' points?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:25 AM

Divis, I thought there was some merit in your first post, but Teribus challenged it on several points and, as far as I can see, you haven't dealt with any of them. For instance, if Teribus is right (IS he?) you were flying a kite in the way you described the status of the hitorical inquiries team.

Teribus, in answering shaneo's claim that Ireland is the third richest country in the world per capita you said: "I actually happen to live in the third richest country in the world , and guess what it ain't fuckin' Ireland."

So what country would that be then, Teribus? Ieland's GDP outstripped Britain's several years ago. With his reference to "per capita" we may assume Shaneo had in mind GDP. But if you're measuring richness in more general terms, it's hard to ignore the Economist Intelligence Unit, which consistently puts Ireland among the top coutries in the world for "quality of life," and the UK many places lower down the list. (They use a formula which embraces factors such as incomes, health, unemployment, political stability and job security.)

EU subsidies obviously kickstarted the Celtic Tiger,but you are mistaken to think that those are what makes the difference now. Ireland has developed a hugely successful knowledge-based economy, and seen through a relatively painless switch in emphasis from agriculture to service industries. Ireland is also much more open to international trading than the UK. Factors such as these mean that Ireland is attracting colossal inward investment in its own right, and EU subsidies are a relatively small part of the whole mix. (Most EU countries, including the UK, benefit from subsidies of one sort or another.)

Just a detail, Teribus, but Stalker was a deputy chief constable, not a chief constable.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:55 AM

Nice self exposure of yourself yet again Keith.

If you had read the header of the thread you would see I called it " British Collusion. The North of Ireland". As on any thread concerning Irish affairs you and Teribus come in and create "Well-orchestrated chaos" to take peoples minds of the subject.

You have read my apologies above, any chance of reading yours ?
You wore the British army uniform, so that places you in a postion to voice it or from your friend in the green apron.

I do not require any "special treatment" Keith, but the big difference between us is you have to search the net for information concerning the campaign, I have only to use recall.

As many members on this site are aware, it's a subject you clearly know very little about, you were never a serving soldier in Ulster, your friend only really warmed up the ovens in a barracks kitchen.

I continue to receive many pm's from members asking me to ignore you and let you continue to dig a big hole for yourself. When it comes to any thread about the North of Ireland you know absolutely NOTHING!!!

Above you will read an excellent post from Dave. It amazes me how you can think this to be your specialised subject Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:58 AM

Divis you start this thread and then say you will not debate.
What is the point?
Are you so unsure of yourself?
You just want to start a thread to make a point but can not defend it?
Pathetic!
Of course if you complain about the behaviour of the other side your own behavior will be thrown into the balance.

Remember I agree with all your aims, I just happen to think that the bloody murderous methods of the paramilitaries have delayed all your aspirations being met.

And if you tell lies to score debating points, expect to be exposed when you are caught out.

What gives you the right to special treatment?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:38 AM

I too support our soldiers and despise the IRA.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:24 AM

If only people would, Divis, if only they would. Once everyone accepts that, then maybe these threads will never be started again? Perhaps rather than recriminations, accusations and counter claims, we would be happier if all mention of the past crimes, of both Britain and Ireland, were consigned to the past? I can well undertand your bitterness and the passion which drives you but someone needs to draw a line somewhere or it will go on forever. Both the British government and Sinn Fein / PIRA have made a lot of concessions. Whether one has made more than the other can be discussed until the cows come home but why not just move on from where we are. Everyone? Please?

I have had enough of the current fighting so, in the spirit of the season, I will add no more to the threads in question. If anyone wants to PM me please feel free and I will happily shake the virtual hand of anyone who I disagree with or who disagrees with me. In the interim may I wish you all a very peaceful and relaxing Christmas.

Cheers

DtG

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:21 AM

As is your right to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:19 AM

I announce my support and respect for all members of the British Army who had to serve on home ground - probably the worst scenario for any soldier.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 07:57 AM

For what reason would I wish to debate issues concerning Ireland currently on this site with either Teribus or yourself Keith ?

You constantly refer to me as a liar and once you get your audience you repeat like a parrot every silly point they bring to this site.

As for Teribus, Christ if I was still practising in a hospital I would have the Diagnosis done by now.

Then your little army of supporting "Guest posts" arrive, ah that's another matter.


Regarding the facts and figures you throw at me from time to time, these bores the ass of most members.

We fought a war here in Ireland, we fought for our right to unite Ireland. I do not accept the British presence in Ireland and never will. I am a republican, do you understand that ?

I am sick repeating myself to you, I said the movement offered sincere apologies and condolences to the families of victims (non-combatants). I also said we acknowledge the grief and pain of the families of the combatants -- police, soldiers and loyalist paramilitaries -- killed during the violence.


Has your British army/government ever made such a statement ? Answer NEVER.


You single out cases such as McConville. You ever acknowledge acts of murder by your British armed groups here in Ireland. And you wonder why I don't reply ?


You can talk, fire figures, call me names but you will NEVER EVER understand what it was like at ground level.


To put this in a nut shell, there are a few members here that hate the Provisional IRA.

There are a few member here that will never forgive the British Army for their actions whilst serving in Ireland (me included).

The two will never meet, so accept it.

I repeat my support and respect for all volunteers of the Provisional IRA.

Divis

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:47 AM

OK Teribus - Thanks for addressing my questions. I may not always agree but I will always welcome well presented and reasoned arguments.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:26 AM

Still waiting GUEST

Still waiting for you to come up with anything, anything at all that supports you point of view, anything at all that refutes any of the points that either myself or others have made on this thread. That after all is what "debate" or "discussion" is about.

Still waiting GUEST - but believe me I am not holding my breath.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:18 AM

Has Teribus finally lost the plot & now suffering from delusional fantasies?

Why the hell is Teribus preaching to people about peace and democracy one moment and attacking them the next ?

Isn't Teribus preaching peace & democracy, like Jack the Ripper teaching me respect towards women, or like Stephen Hawkins teaching me to breakdance & gangster rap?

He ignores democratic opinion to wage a verbal war against the Irish along with his groupie. He deliberately manipulated intelligent debate to undermine other members by deception. Now I see he is attacking the people of South West London ?

Teribus clearly wants to end any hope of peace in Ireland by walking backways.

Get over it lad.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:13 AM

Divis, does "you both" include me?
I did not contribute to this thread.
I admitted having no knowledge of this subject.

Now, consider how you appear, apparently unable to answer any of Teribus' points.
To dismiss his concise arguments as a rant is a cop out.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 04:44 AM

Dave the gnome - 19 Dec 06 - 12:59 PM

Odd though it may seem, very few of the crimes committed involving loss of life during the period 1968 to 1989 were ever investigated.

Now on one hand you have the paramilitaries and their supporters baying for Enquiries into this incident or that incident, but when it comes to anybody wanting to look into what they did, it's hands off.

What was Den's dearest wish in that other thread:

"It is time for truth and reconciliation from all corners for without it there is no foundation from which to build the future."

But for the likes of Divis and Ard and their Irish-American followers "from all corners" does not include the "side" that they supported even although they were responsible for two-thirds of the deaths.

In the case of Jean McConville and the others who were "disappeared" on the orders/approval of the likes of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, the PIRA are guilty of war crimes. Now if Sinn Fein can stand on any political platform and demand that the likes of Pinochet be tried, they can hardly excuse themselves, but that is typical of their hipocrisy.

Here again are the figures:

British Security Forces - 362
Irish Security Forces - 5
Loyalist Paramilitaries - 1020
Republican Paramilitaries – 2056
Unknown/Unattributed – 80

Take a look at the lives lost to the paramilitary groups - all died needlessly. By the end of the eighties, certainly by 1994 the PIRA had "been fought to a standstill" - Note DtG that is not my appraisal - That was the exact expression used by Martin McGuinness to describe their status. When the Good Friday Agreement came about as a result of John Major taking up the IRA's offer (Remember the Downing Street Declaration was made in a response to an offer from the PIRA) McGuinness just could not for the life of him understand why the British Government would offer such terms.

I think that you are definitely barking up the wrong tree when you compare the likes of the paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland to the resistance movements that sprung up in Europe during the Second World War. Those resistance movements tended to restrict their attacks to their enemies, the PIRA launched their attacks indiscriminately on the population they claimed they were "protecting". Of course amongst themselves they could justify that because then, as now, if put to the vote the vast majority of the people of Northern Ireland would still vote to remain part of the United Kingdom. The PIRA never had any mandate whatsoever from the people of Ireland to wander around killing anybody, and guess what DtG they can NEVER offer any proof to the contrary.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 04:41 AM

I head into the countryside of Spain for one day and return to see yet another thread destroyed by Well-orchestrated chaos.

If this is all you have to offer there is little point in trying to discuss or debate any matter with either of you.

Just for one short moment in time, consider how you both must appear to other members who visit threads like this.

If these rants and thread drifts are your answers to this very serious subject, I feel sorry for both of you.

Guest post all you like, it does not annoy me.

Divis

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 04:09 AM

That clock is still runnin' GUEST - 19 Dec 06 - 02:19 PM

Cat got your tongue? Hands trapped in a drawer?

Come on!! Anything at all to support your statement???

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 01:36 AM

Guest 10 42
Some people here get annoyed by people changing the subject.
We know who did the 7/7 bombings and it was not the government.
We even have their Al Q. suicide videos.
But thnk you for adding to the list of crackpot conspiracy theories I gave earlier.
Guest 10 24
He was not talking to himself but to specific, named contributors who appear not to be able to answer.
Some of them have told lies on this forum about a member of this forum. (Balham)
That is not acceptable here.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:42 PM

POWER: At half past nine this morning we were actually running an exercise for a company of over a thousand people in London based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning, so I still have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up right now.

HOST: To get this quite straight, you were running an exercise to see how you would cope with this and it happened while you were running the exercise?

POWER: Precisely...

(Statement made on BBC Radio 5 by Peter Power, Managing Director of Visor Consultants. Statement made on the day of the July 7 bombings in London. Talk about getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar. And if the British government would do this to its own people, then...)

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:24 PM

Does he always talk to himself like this?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:08 PM

Jaysus the silence is deafening

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 09:49 PM

Hey BALHAM haven't heard anthing from you yet

Anything by way of fact to offer at all???

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 09:43 PM

Clocks still runnin' GUEST - 19 Dec 06 - 02:19 PM

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 09:35 PM

Clocks runnin' GUEST - 19 Dec 06 - 02:19 PM

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 09:33 PM

Eh? by the bye Lads you've all gone miles off topic just to attack me - And quite frankly I couldn't give a toss - because I certainly did not de-rail the train - but note that, as usual when confronted with fact, the Oul' Republican Cause is fuckin' speechless - No counter arguement whatsoever. Big surprise!!!

Hey guys points made - Awaiting your response

What were the figures again:

British Security Forces - 362
Irish Security Forces - 5
Loyalist Paramilitaries - 1020
Republican Paramilitaries – 2056
Unknown/Unattributed – 80

Come on, all you "Noble Sons of Erin" all you "Plastic Paddys" over there in the good old US of A - Justify those figures. Tell me just exactly how and why those people had to die.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 09:18 PM

Shaneo - 19 Dec 06 - 02:21 PM

"the third richest country in the world per capita"

Eh Shaneo, I actually happen to live in the third richest country in the world , and guess what it ain't fuckin' Ireland. Without EU subsidies Ireland would be lost. Let's hear your counter arguement on that.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 09:10 PM

GUEST - 19 Dec 06 - 02:19 PM

"Straight jacket required for our friend and member dear old Teribus.
He insulted the people of Balham here in London and called them all sorts of names. Teribus are they not English ?

So Ireland and Balham are all full of bad people then Teribus, what about the Welsh or Scots ?"

Once again I will ask you to provide any evidence of the above.

Please quote any postpost of mine where I have, "INSULTED THE PEOPLE OF BALHAM AND CALLED THEM ANY SORTS OF NAMES"

If, as I know for certain you cannot do this, then dear Guest please with the best will in the world please fuck off, fuck you and the horse you rode in on - You know damn well that you cannot provide one shred of evidence to substantiate your outrageous accusations.
The ball is now firmly in your court - Please "Cut and Paste" any post of mine that substantiates your claim - If you cannot do so within the next 24 hours please have honesty and integrity to admit as much and never post here again.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:49 PM

Then why shaneo does it also have the fastest rises in racist and homophobic attacks, especially racist attacks on children and also an escalating drug problem that is pushing the tiles off the roof?

Why can it not enjoy its upsurge economically and stop injuring anyone who doesn't wear the correct shade of skin?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:48 PM

in the middle of the ocean I mean a desert island.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:24 PM

I so wanted to say that myself Keith!

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Shaneo
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:21 PM

Yep stuck on an island , with the fastest growing economy in Europe and being the third richest country in the world per capita ,


Not a bad place to be.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:19 PM

Straight jacket required for our friend and member dear old Teribus.
He insulted the people of Balham here in London and called them all sorts of names. Teribus are they not English ?

So Ireland and Balham are all full of bad people then Teribus, what about the Welsh or Scots ?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 02:14 PM

Er, they are stuck on an island Tom.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 01:28 PM

these people are stuck in the past and cannot look towards the future.
so just leave them there, stick the Republican and Loyalists on an island and then the rest of the world will live 'happyly ever after.

Happy Christmas

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 12:59 PM

Fair enough, Teribus. I still think it is worth investigating though. IF the British government did colude in these murders someone needs to be brought to justice for it. I think to say that all deaths need to be investigated is a bit wrong. I could be barking up the wrong tree here but wouldn't bringing the PIRA soldiers to trial be akin to trying members of, for instance, the French or Polish resistance after WW11? The official oppressors in that case, IE Nazi Germany, were held attributable for their crimes but murders and acts of sabotage by the resistance were lauded as a good thing? Just my opinion of course but I do think that there is something very wrong with Government backed murder. I agree that it does need proving of course as innocence should be assumed until proven otherwise.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 12:52 PM

Brilliant! If I wore a hat I would take it off to you.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 12:28 PM

Singularly "On Topic"

Divis Sweeney's opening post is as disingenuous and riddled with contradictions and outrageous hypocrisy.

"As many of you are aware I have been involved with a team of International lawyers over the past two years looking into evidence of British security forces collusion in the North of Ireland."

Well we can only take your word for it. I would have thought, however, as you, and your team of International lawyers, are still at the gathering, sorry, looking at evidence stage, that at least one of them would have had the experience and savvy to advise you against going into print on an internet forum to discuss the matter.

"The evidence they found implicates the British security forces in direct collusion in 74 out of 76 murders. Their report is only the latest of many other reports which implicate the British government and its agents in the murder of our people."

"Their Report" as you provide no link or reference to it, can say whatever you want it to say. Do you honestly expect me, or anyone else, just to take your word for it??

"Implicates the British Security Forces", these is not the words a lawyer would use, they are not specific enough Judge Peter Cory in his report identifies sources of possible and probable collusion individually.

In 2001 agreement regarding inquiries into six "high profile" cases (including the Finucane case) was reached, provided sufficient indicative evidence was shown to exist. Apart from the Finucane case there are three others in the North of Ireland and two in Ireland. The Finucane case will be subject to an Inquiry that is beyond doubt. The form and conduct has yet to be finalised, the setting up of the Inquiry was initially delayed to complete the police investigation and prosecution of the man responsible for Finucanes death. This trial was concluded in 2004 and a sentence of 22 years resulted, under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement of course it is highly unlikely that 22 years or anything like that will be served. They are now in the process of setting up what form the Inquiry will take and who will conduct it. Senior British Government Officials are discussing this with Judge Peter Cory at present, at least that is what he reported to the US State Department.

The other investigations referred to by Divis:
Barron - 1974 Dublin-Monaghan Bombings
Cory – 1989 Finucane Murder plus the five other cases
Stalker – Irrelevant he investigated the Shoot-to-Kill Policy not collusion
Stevens – Investigated the murders of Lambert and Finucane

The similar conclusions reached tend to indicate individual and unit collusion there is, at present, little or no evidence to suggest that such collusion came about as a directive from senior levels.

As reported to the State Department of the United States of America by Judge Peter Cory, Britain has agreed to conduct Inquiries where independent preliminary investigation shows indications that evidence exists. This tends to directly contradict Divis Sweeney's statement that the British Government has refused to instigate public inquiries and considering the number of investigations that have been carried out somewhat belies the charge of obstructing the course of justice. Maybe Divis can explain McGuinness's qualifications on testimony before the Bloody Sunday Inquiry, or the lack of co-operation on the part of the PIRA into the Omagh Bombing - that's obstruction of justice Divis.

Who or what organization is charged with looking after the Internal Security and Intelligence affairs of the United Kingdom will be decided by the British Government and no-one else.

Divis announces that – "We now have the PSNI sponsored "Historical Inquiries Team".

And that team has the task of investigating the following:

"Its sole job is to re-examine all deaths attributable to the security situation here between 1968 and 1998."

According to this these guys will have their work cut out for them. Deaths between 14th July 1969 and 31st December 2001 were attributed and claimed as follows:

British Security Forces - 362
Irish Security Forces - 5
Loyalist Paramilitaries - 1020
Republican Paramilitaries – 2056
Unknown/Unattributed – 80

Hey Divis - Republican Paramilitaries – 2056 – WOW, at least you can tell this team about the gun that killed 14 year old Kathleen Feeney, and possibly help them bring her killer to book, as you and he were "brothers in arms". Hey Divis being neighbours you may even know one of the four women and eight men that dragged Jean McConville out of her bath on the 12th December 1972 - Jean's eldest daughter Helen knows four of them.

Another of Divis's contentions with regard to the Historical Enquiries Team was – "This team is not independent but a unit of the PSNI which must itself be investigated as a major player in these atrocities."

Well here's what they (The Historical Enquiries Team) has to say about it: "The Historical Enquiries Team will be staffed by police officers and civilian staff recruited both within Northern Ireland and externally. Command will rest with officers from outside the Police Service of Northern Ireland but who have gained experience of Northern Ireland issues.
It will have two distinct Review and Investigation teams. Exclusively externally seconded officers from other UK police services and An Garda Siochana will staff one team whilst the second will be made up from locally recruited staff."

Now this thing about the number of files and deaths, is presented in such a way as to make the reader think what? That the RUC deliberately misplaced 1691 case files? While I was taking a look at conviction statistics and details for another thread I saw something similar regarding complaints against the police I think it went something like 2600-odd reports covering 4000-odd complaints – Explanation is simple 1 report can cover more than one complaint – as 1 file can cover more than 1 death. But Divis would know that as his "lads" were normally responsible for the really big "mass hysteria" events during the period in question. Unfortunately the period covered HET investigations will not cover Omagh, I say unfortunately as then Divis and his "brothers in arms" could shed some light on that in a genuine attempt at creating justice and closure for grieving relatives. Up to now the organisation of which he is so inordinately proud have shown disgusting contempt for the rights of the families everywhere.

Give us some references so that others on this forum can make their minds up about your so-called "White Team". Or is this the Review side of the set up that I've described above who are in charge of the whole HET set up, made up entirely of outsiders and commanded by Cdr David Cox (ex-Metropolitan Police). Now let's have a little recap here Divis:

You have no problem with the impartiality of Stalker (UK Chief Constable)

You have no problem with the impartiality of Stevens (UK Police Commissioner Metropolitan Police)

So what's your problem with Cox?? What is it that causes you to say that, ". none of this amounts to a genuine attempt at creating justice and closure for grieving relatives but rather a cover up of this catalogue of murder and a disgusting contempt for the rights of the families".

Well Divis, I tell you what, we'll see how this goes, and when it does come to a, "genuine attempt at creating justice and closure for grieving relatives" your lot can come clean with regard to Jean McConville, proclaim to the world that she was NOT an informer, that she was completely innocent, and that your boss Gerry Adams ordered/approved her abduction, torture and murder. Quite a lot of relatives there Divis, after all she had ten children, who you and your neighbours just turned their backs on 34 years ago come Christmas. Your lads, or their spokesmen can then toddle along and accept due process at the International War Crimes Court – two prospective charges in relation to Jean McConville's murder await.

With regard to your obvious disgust at a, "…catalogue of murder and a disgusting contempt for the rights of the families". What were those figures again - Republican Paramilitaries – 2056. Maybe you and your colleagues should have got disgusted a bit earlier, sometime around 1968, there would 3000-odd more Irishmen and women alive now if you had.

I trust that HET will do it's job – It is high time that ALL concerned were brought to account for the crimes that they committed:
Deaths between 14th July 1969 and 31st December 2001 were attributed and claimed as follows:

British Security Forces - 362
Irish Security Forces - 5
Loyalist Paramilitaries - 1020
Republican Paramilitaries – 2056
Unknown/Unattributed – 80

PS Divis: No-one was ever sent over in the guise of peacekeepers. All troops sent over were sent to "Aid the Civil Power", there is a great deal of difference.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 11:20 AM

All.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:49 AM

As long as they aren't soldiers LOL

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 09:57 AM

No Dave.
I was pointing up a difference between Sweeney's position and mine.
I would condemn and help to convict if I could crimes on both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 09:45 AM

Anything to do with the point in question, Keith. Are you saying that the murder of poor Mrs McConville is somehow connected to British collusion with murderers? Or maybe that the British government staged that one as well? Surely that is taking the conspiracy theory a bit too far isn't it?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 08:30 AM

No Guest, I know nothing of this.
I would be surprised if there were no low level collusion.
I will be surprised if high level collusion is proved.
There may be persuasive evidence and important believers, but there is for aliens landing at Roswell, for no airliner hitting Pentagon, for the collapse of the towers being caused by explosives, for MI5 killing Diana, no moonlandings etc.
I think it may be another conspiracy theory.
If it is true I condemn it utterly and will be glad to see the guilty locked up.
If I had evidence i would give it to the police myself.
Sweeney, will you tell the police what you know about the murder of Jean McConville and other atrocities?

Subject: RE: BS: British Collusion. The North of Ireland.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 08:04 AM

No Keith or Teribus ?