BS: why do we need religion

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:32 PM

Also, Martin Gibson, I take a dump whenever my colon fills up with dung, just like any other animal. No part of me fills up with the need to believe in the supernatural, nor yours either - humans want to have the unexplained explained, but there is no longer any need to find answers outside the natural world. The need was there before the invention of science, but exists no longer.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:32 PM

I don't think there need by a division. It should be a given that there is a spectrum of possible realities vis-a-vis Religolandia, and everyone comes from somewhere on the map. DIversity is a plus in this respect.   Some people turn to religion because it gives them a reason NOT to face up to personal issues. Others turn to it in order to be able to deal with their own lives in a more complete way; still others thing that their lives and their "religions" are a continuous gradient, not a separated set of boxes.

I think the framing of the original question is slightly off, because what it protests against is not the essence of religion but the essence of fanaticism. There is no spiritual truth in fanaticism, whether Eastern or Western; it just isn't spiritual to believe in slaughter or hard and fast categories. At least, so it seems to me. Reactionary responses and categorical imperatives are mandates of the worst the human mind can offer; while genuine spiritual insight would presumably be of the best. Fanaticism is just a cheap excuse for ignorance; spirituality is along-term cure for it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:30 PM

Excuse me, Little aHawk, I beg to differ. I don't "worship" anything. You posted: Then you have the modern atheist. He {or she, adds the pedant} practices a somewhat new religion, based on different perceptions of reality...and he worships ideals and "gods" that make sense to him. In doing so, he stands upon what makes HIM feel secure in an insecure World. What makes him feel secure may be: his own individuality (rugged individualism), his survival skills, his ego, money, property, reputation, fame, acquired knowledge, a law degree, etc....ad infinitum.
He is actually worshipping some of the "false gods" pointed to in many religious texts, but he doesn't realize it, that's all.
Everybody is religious in their own peculiar way.
I am not religious in any way. I have ideals - I don't worship them. I do not feel secure in an insecure world, and that's OK with me. I accept the insecurity. I accept the place of people in the scheme of the natural world, and that isn't at the top of any evolutionary ladder. I don't follow any gods, not even false ones. And I think I'm about as modern as an atheist can be.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Wesley S
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:25 PM

This is another great example of a thread that will appeal to people who already have their minds made up - and if you have to ask the question then you won't trust the answers you'll get. At least - that's my opinion.

We can also ask why some people DON'T need religion. The result will be the same. More of the "us vs. them" thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:18 PM

Ah...now we're back on track. Very good, Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:08 PM

Hang on here just a sec. While I agree wholeheartedly that for some people the driving force behind religion is to fill a need, I would suggest that your question is framed on a tilt. There are those for whom it is a matter of discovery or simple experience of part of the world.

You can squirm on that hook all you want, but for some people experience is a bit richer than plain physical sensations. The "body-is-all school" of thought may dismiss anything not so perceived as "superstition". But to do is to surely make a superstition out of materiality, one which forbids understanding the creative power of the individual. Furthermore, the purely materialist school of thought leaves precious little room for any ethics except profit, and justifies war at will, random destruction, and mud.

A

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 01:02 PM

But, Donuel, that's the only way to be really SAFE! Kill 'em all. Get your neighbours before they get you. Yessirree, Bob! Head 'em up, and smoke 'em out.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:59 PM

If I pre emptively "killed" my neighbor I suppose I would have that old time religious moral values.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Jim Tailor
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:59 PM

I just googled it. Morelle Values:

Risotto Al Sugo di Fagiano e Morelle Risotto with Pheasant and Morelle Mushrooms $13.00.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:59 PM

Heh! That's true, I didn't. But look...if I could have voted, I would have voted against Bush. Several times, if possible.

Well, now I think you and I have completely derailed this thread, Martin. Nice work.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Once Famous
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:55 PM

Possibly.

Probably.

You fucking didn't vote any way, Canada brain.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:53 PM

Yeah? You saying I don't have moral values, Martin?

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Once Famous
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:51 PM

religion did not elect george Bush

People with moral values did.

Deal with it.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:50 PM

Possibly. I think what really elected him was 2 things:

1. Diebold voting machines.

2. The fact that the average American won't vote for a man that appears to be more articulate and intelligent than himself! Kerry was a dead duck, cos he wasn't just plainfolks enough to get elected in the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: ard mhacha
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:46 PM

Don`t forget religion elected George Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:46 PM

Yes some do some don't.
My older son with challenges created an imaginary friend Mr. Prott.
My younger son did not create an imaginary friend.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:40 PM

Admirably stated, Martin. And much briefer than what I said. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Once Famous
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:38 PM

Guest, nosey

Do you take a dump everyday?

why do you bother?

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:37 PM

Religion is basic to human existence...

Catholics (at least some of them) believe in the organized religion of Catholicism. As such, that means that they believe in a long-established set of social and cultural traditions going back almost 2,000 years, which they have usually acquired from their families and their communities. So what's unusual about that?

Muslims are much the same. So too are Buddhists, Janes, Taoists, Confucianists (that's a philosophy), followers of Zen, Protestants of many denominations, Jews of various varieties of Judaism, etc....

It's a question of being born into a social fabric and assuming that it is normal, that's all. People generally do that.

Then you have the modern atheist. He practices a somewhat new religion, based on different perceptions of reality...and he worships ideals and "gods" that make sense to him. In doing so, he stands upon what makes HIM feel secure in an insecure World. What makes him feel secure may be: his own individuality (rugged individualism), his survival skills, his ego, money, property, reputation, fame, acquired knowledge, a law degree, etc....ad infinitum.

He is actually worshipping some of the "false gods" pointed to in many religious texts, but he doesn't realize it, that's all.

Everybody is religious in their own peculiar way.

If you ask why people need religion, you might as well ask why they need music, or hairstyles, or clothing styles, or politics, or philosophy, or logic, or any other common thing that people have.

Everybody does a whole bunch of things in an automatic way, not knowing why they do, mostly because they saw and heard other people doing it while they were growing up! That's what's so funny about it all. A philosopher is someone who notices how funny and arbitrary it all is and talks about it. Most people are too busy or just plain oblivious to bother with philosophy.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Jim Tailor
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:36 PM

Maybe, just maybe...

because there is truth in one, or the other, or all of them.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Wolfgang
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:29 PM

Interview with Churchill (2004)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:07 PM

Actually, this is a very interesting question. There is a guy here at UVa who writes articles, among other things, about how "religion was the real hijacker on 9-11" and the dangers of religious thinking in general, for men in particular whose evolution includes lethal raiding in groups. I'll find links if I can. His main thesis is that we can no longer afford the luxury of tolerating superstitious thinking. I'm beginning to agree...

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 12:02 PM

....besides, it keeps temptation in check (sometimes) and helps maintain a semblance of order, for if there were no divine punishment for knowingly doing wrong, more people would be tempted to surrender to pure hedonism.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 11:59 AM

For comfort and solace.

It helps to believe there's a divine purpose in pain and suffering - that at the end of it all there's a just reward for those who've lived a proper life and borne their disappointments well, and a fitting punishment for those who haven't. It's a relief to believe that we're not alone when it feels like we're all alone.

It helps to lessen the fear of dying. It takes the edge off the nagging remnants of doubt that at the end of life all our trials and tribulations may have been for naught, and nothing but a return to an empty void is the only thing that awaits us.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 11:48 AM

Some people need it and some people don't.

If that were the end of the discussion, with no ifs and buts, the world would be a saner place.

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 11:44 AM

Sheesh!

Subject: RE: BS: why do we need religion
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 11:42 AM

Because it starts and maintains contentious threads like this one.

Subject: BS: why do we need religion
From: GUEST,nosey
Date: 15 Feb 05 - 11:35 AM

In this day & age why do people still feel the need for religion, I really am interested to know the thoughts of mudcatters on this subject. WHY OH WHY OH WHY?????????????????/