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BS: Americans are truly stupid
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Ron Davies Date: 04 Jan 11 - 11:34 PM "Fairness" doesn't enter into it. I make no claim to validity for my broad-brush assertion --which is to say, it's as valid as the title and thesis of this thread. Can you say "agent provocateur"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Bobert Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:43 PM Yeah, jozz, you on to it... It's all about a bunch of Mao's kids 'n Boss Hog gettin' under the sheets together... ...and when Boss Hog need a little "strange"??? There's always the workin' man... Heck, he used to bendin' over backwards... And the beat goes on... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: mg Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:59 PM Am I reading this right that you respect neither used car salesmen or common fishermen? Or just that they could not be fit for office? mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: josepp Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:54 PM It all ties together, bobert. Kids can't find jobs because we allow corporations to ship them overseas. Then the merchandise comes back here for us to buy--most of it so substandard that you know the corporations engaging in this crap aren't paying these people shit to make the stuff. Then we buy it which convinces the corporations to keep shipping jobs over there. They are making so much money paying shit wages for cheap, shoddy crap. Meanwhile, our best and brightest can't find work which means we are not putting our best minds to work even at menial jobs which means, of course, that we cannot be competing effectively. But if we say, "We are not buying this cheap, shoddy crap that you paid a slave wage for and are now set to reap a 700% retail markup," then they have to stop doing it because it isn't profitable. And we need to do it now because it has gotten to the point where every goddamn thing you see these days comes from China. It didn't help that Bush put us so far in debt to China that they pretty much own us now. If China gets a viable middle class that can buy the shit, it won't matter what happens to our middle class over here. So we had better start making our voices heard and right now. Right now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Bobert Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:30 PM I can answer that question for Eb fir ya, Capt'n... First of all, we don't need to go to the moon and second, remember back when they said we went to the moon??? That was filmed out in the dessert... Never happened... I mean, I was livin' in a rural county in Virginia then and that's what all the farmers were sayin'... But, yeah, all we are doing is penalizin' kids for going to college... You hear it every day... Kid's rackin' up college loans and then graduate and the only jobs out there fir them is workin' at McDonalds??? What the fuck is that all about??? Either we'rfte gonna compete or we ain't... Right now??? We ain't... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: kendall Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:59 PM Ebbie, what do you suppose your Father would have said if you had asked him how many Farmers would it take to put a man on the moon? If I had my way, every A and B student in America would go to college paid for by the government, as long as they kept their grades up. Oh, and I would also forbid invading countries that didn't do squat to us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Ed T Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:57 PM Stop shopping in corporate owned "big box stores" that decide on what you buy and where it is made. Start shopping in independantly owned stores, while there are a few of them left. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: josepp Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:51 PM ////And to top it off we are now in our 3rd decade of right winged bashing of "elites" (i.e. educated)... Here tonight on the news is this Tea Party Repub "car dealer" comin' to D.C. as an elected Congressman... Just what we need... A fucking car salesman thinkin' he can run the show... Great... What next???//// In America, it's unmanly to be intellectual. A real man goes out everyday and gets his hands dirty. He's drivin trucks and fixin engines and unloadin cargo and shootin at terrorists while faggy little pantywaists sit around reading books and pontificating in little snobby voices on the human condition while sipping tea. My ex-brother-in-law was pissed off that his son became a professional artist and musician because he came right out and said it is "not manly." It might be rooted in Christianity which holds that a common fisherman became the first pontiff. Never mind that it is impossible that a common fisherman could have fulfilled such an office. "Peter wasn't some book-learned, elitist snob--he was a blue-collar working class man and that's why Jesus chose him!" And they really believe that shit. ////Reduce the demand for crap and there will be less crap.//// Right. It means we the consumer hold the real power in this country. The greedy bastards at the top will give us anything we want if we show them we are willing to shell out for it. So we must take that initiative. They're going to make ungodly amounts of money no matter what so we have to make that work for us. Stop watching reality TV, stop buying McDonald's and Justin Biebershit. Stop crowding into theatres on weekends to watch over-produced crappy-ass Hollywood carrion. It is up to us. We are the deciders. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Bobert Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:35 PM And back to education... I fully understand what Ebbie was talkin' about here but then again I know more than most about her family... And I knew folks like her father... I worked with them in the 60's building houses... That was/is a cultural thing that has nuthin' to do with the bashing of educated people that the right wing has lived by for 30 years now... We have to stop bashing folks for being educated... If we don't we will end up destroyed by China... I mean, destroyed!!! We have to stop this bleeding... We have to impress upon people that it is their "patriotic" duty to get themselves educated... We have to stop re4warding folks who think it's cool to drop outta school... Are we stupid??? Not yet but headed there at warp speed... There comes a time when you have abused yourself so long that it's too late... The country is "ourself" here and we are beatin' it like a dog right now... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: GUEST,mark-s (on the road) Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:00 PM Right on, josepp, right on. Reduce the demand for crap and there will be less crap. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Bobert Date: 04 Jan 11 - 07:54 PM Righto... Justin Beiber ain'[t nuthin'... Nuthin'!!! But that what they want ***US*** to have... They are just shovelin' shit down our throats... Now I know that folks like Bill D and most of the folks here are way above Justin BarbiDoll and McDonalds because we came up in a time where thinkin' was not the enemy... Those days are G.O.N.E.!!! As for what I would teach in schools... The truth, fir starters... Here in Virginia the history books are filled with revisionist crap... And are we teaching art anymore??? Not likely... Music??? Not really unless you call the monkey-can-learn-it marching band stuff... And literature??? Nope... Really, we aren't educating our kids... We are training them... Not much more... Just like Skinner's rats... Not much more... And to top it off we are now in our 3rd decade of right winged bashing of "elites" (i.e. educated)... Here tonight on the news is this Tea Party Repub "car dealer" comin' to D.C. as an elected Congressman... Just what we need... A fucking car salesman thinkin' he can run the show... Great... What next??? Beam me up, Scotty... The inmates are running the show... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Bill D Date: 04 Jan 11 - 07:18 PM You have a LOT of complaints, josepp...you got a plan? What WOULD you teach kids in school? (in the various grades) (you mind telling us what part of the country you are in?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: josepp Date: 04 Jan 11 - 07:11 PM This is a capitalist system--money talks. Nothing is presented to us on a constant basis unless we buy it. If we buy it, they will keep selling it to us until we stop. If we claim we want more variety, they chop the shit up and repackage it and claim it's new and if we buy it then they will continue selling it. It is up to us to stop buying it. Justin Bieber isn't the best new artist of the year just to annoy the shit out of me--it's because stupid asses are buying into him. I have a coworker whose daughter wanted him to buy some Bieber crap for her and he said no. That's all it takes--NO! But most of us give in and we buy the crap. Then we say, "Well, don't blame me--my kid wants it!" I'm not blaming you because your kid wants it, I'm blaming you only if you gave into the demand. JUST SAY NO! Kids have to understand that they can't just have everything they want. It's up to you as a parent to decide whether they really need that dose of crap. It's just like when I go out for lunch everyday. The McDonald's drive-thru always has a line of cars going out into the street. Who in their right mind would sit there that long to get shitty McDonald's? And who should be blamed for that? McDonald's? Or the dummy who decides to spend his money there to shove the worst crap in the world into his face? It's only shoved down our throats because we keep swallowing. When we stop--they stop because the money isn't there. Whatever you demand, they will obey if they can make their money. So let the dirtbags make their money but make clear they're only going to make it by selling you something of substance and value. But if you give in and buy this vapid, mindless crap then I hold you responsible not the system. You're part of the system--we all are. So let's make it work for us, not on us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Bobert Date: 04 Jan 11 - 06:45 PM No, ****we**** don't deserve either the educational system we have or the TV programin'... What has slowly occurred since the 60s when education was revered is a deterioration of our culture... It has effected everything... But it is be design... The industrialists have gone about doing everything in it's power to never ever allow the people to think... They have manipulated our government, our schools and our art in order to create a less dangerous population to them... In ot5her words, Huxley's Epsilon Nation... But we don't deserve this... IT's just what is being shoveled into *US*... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: josepp Date: 04 Jan 11 - 06:08 PM ///choose your arguments to convince both politicians and kids, don't give them the impression that you are complaining selfishly/// Well I am complaining selfishly!! That's exactly what I'm doing. I don't want to change things selflessly because I'm doing this for your own good--what kind of dipshit would I have to be to think that way? I want to change the way this country educates its citizens because I am personally embarrassed to be an American and seeing this stupid shit. Do we really need to know about Charlie Parker? Hell no, of course, we don't so just shut up, sit the hell down and read your "Pride, Prejudice and Zombies" because I'm certain you will find that way more interesting than anything Charlie Parker ever did. We deserve the education system we have, we deserve the TV programming we have, we deserve the popular music we have, we deserve the political system we have, we deserve the celebrities we have. And if we're settling for that then, sorry, but we ARE stupid. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: ollaimh Date: 04 Jan 11 - 05:27 PM its not stupidity it's ignorance. american culture has been effectively militatized for the last fifty years, and even going back to the first world war. the massive military industrial complex creates a corporate atmosphere that stiffles ridicules and attacks any critique. that has created an anti intellectual culture. people educated and trasined to think critically cannot just swallow the lies and contradictions of american militarism whole. there are genuine american critics , like noam choamsky but they are totally marginalized even thought they are the thinkers of our age. this is part of anglo culture in general. xsince the elizabethean age britain has been on a world wide imperialist campaign. this militarizes the culture. class becomes the civialian rank system and criticism of any intelligent nature is destroyed. after the decline of the british empire and its laissez faire capitalist beliefs the ideas were passed to america. its all about makin money for the military industrial elite. again the once extensively egalitarian american culture has been subverted to become class stratified like britain. this is the militarization of a society which continues to put most of its creative energy into capitalist expansion exploitation and military comntrol of those ventures. in the old days lord salisbury was at least open about it. he used to say of the conservatives"we are the stupid party" all i need to know is god king and country". the spin is a little better now but the tradition is the same. in canada we have the same thing with the tories. they ran an ad campaign against the liberal leader because he had attended and taught at harvard and the sorbonne--proving him to be an intellectual. they don't want people to think. people who think might notice that alberta(the tory heartland) will be a toxic waste land inthe nrothern half and a deseret in the south within fifty years due to massive oil extraction. they are helping the take the money and run capitalists and don't want anyone realizing whats at stake untill its too late and they take their money elsewhere. just as american right wingers don't want anybody noticing the massive profits in iraq to contractors like haliburton, while the amount of money spent on the iraq war could have easily put america into a path of sustainable alternative energy. however self susstainable energy doesn't make haliburton rich, and doesn't bail out little george w when his oil company went broke. but we can't talk about that or we are commies |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Midchuck Date: 04 Jan 11 - 05:00 PM I was offended when I saw the title of this thread. I am now convinced that it is so. From Yahoo news this evening: Acclaimed by critics, scholars, and -- of course -- readers, Mark Twain's "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" is one of the great American novels. The book has been reprinted countless times, adapted into movies, and translated into just about every language under the sun. But should it be updated for today's times? News that the manuscript would undergo some changes sent shockwaves through the Search box. According to Publishers Weekly, NewSouth Books plans to release a version of "Huck Finn" that cuts the "n" word and replaces it with "slave." The slur "injun," referring to Native Americans, will also be replaced. I've lived too long. Peter |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 04 Jan 11 - 04:12 PM josepp 04 Jan 11 - 12:27 PM, I don't see anyone writing that. If you ask me what should be done, I cannot be too specific for the USA, but my general idea is the following (directed at all of us):
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: GUEST,mg Date: 04 Jan 11 - 03:58 PM Everything about our education is not just fine. However, learning who Charles Parker is is not going to raise the general quality by a 10th of a percent. There is education and there is training for job skills, which is urgently needed. So is education. Both are needed. Both are failing many students. For everyone who ridicules an intellectual, there is an intellectual ridiculing (with perhaps more sophistication) the kids in shop class, if you can find shop classes any more. Start with occupational education for each and every student, so that students will either have employment upon graduation, some of whom will pay for further education through these skills, or will at least have skills to barter in a bad economy. Let them know that they really need exposure to Charles Parker etc., provide as much as they can absorb, and tell them that if they don't learn things now, they really should make an effort to in the future... Read Stuff White People LIke..or perhaps its sequal...it talks about the Cycle of White Life..and it is the most profound observation on USA education I have seen..ENglish teachers preparing students to work in law, media, something else and to become English teachers..the Cycle of White Life..or was it the White Cycle of Life or something..too profound to be funny. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Ebbie Date: 04 Jan 11 - 12:31 PM My father was born on the North Dakota plains in 1901. He finished eighth grade and was proficient in arithmetic and 'figuring'. He died in 1995, still sturdy and healthy, except for a too-slow heartbeat. For almost all of his life he mocked higher education- we kids grew up knowing that 'he went to college was a definite clue to a man's lack of good sense and judgment and the ability and humility to work with his hands. "He never worked a day in his life" was the ultimate put down. I was practically 30 years old before I was brave enough to point out to him that hiring an educated - as in trained - plumber or mechanic or electrician saved a great deal of time and money and anxiety. So why not an educated mind? He didn't buy that- as far as he was concerned, an 'intelligent' mind learned everything necessary through his own experience and from the people around him. Having been exposed to that kind of thinking all my life I kind of understand where this new 'thought' is coming from. It is mind-boggling to me, though, that it is still around and seemingly more prevalent than a hundred years ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: josepp Date: 04 Jan 11 - 12:27 PM The general consensus that I'm seeing on this thread is alarmist and that everything in our education is just fine. Would that be a fair assessment? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Ed T Date: 04 Jan 11 - 11:22 AM Would it have been more appropriate to post the word stoopid? Just wondering:) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: artbrooks Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:57 AM He's from Maine - what's he know about English? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Bobert Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:24 AM And yer point, Capt'n??? ***grin*** |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: GUEST,Kendall Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:20 AM I read somewhere that an old Redneck said, "English was good enough for Jesus, so it's good enough for me." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: GUEST,Patsy Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:26 AM I think it is foolish to label a nation as stupid. I can't speak for the USA but there was concern here in the UK that children were not reading enough (according to statistics) therefore reading skills were so say way below what they were a couple of decades ago so the schools started a campaign to nudge children into reading more. But in some towns here i.e. Bristol sadly not all families have the social skills to follow that through. My parents criticised my generation too because we were learning a varied range of new subjects that they hadn't touched on like the sciences and languages instead of just concentrating on to their way of thinking the 'essential' subjects things like reading, writing and arithmetic. To them all the other subjects were a waste of time not to mention the typing lessons which did actually benefit me greatly with the advancement of the computer age little did I know then keyboard skills would lead to IT skills. I wonder if perhaps people just don't have the time to set aside to read a good book. It could possibly be that the way of life has changed not intelligence. Mozart is questionable although a boy prodigy gifted and talented there is a suggestion that he might have leaned towards Asperger's syndrome which could have contributed to making him so musically perfect and ordered. If this is a fact composing might not have been so difficult for him in comparison to another who it might have taken night after night to finish. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:26 AM In a thread named "Ignorant Old People" we have been told that "ignorant" is colloquial for "rude". In the same logic, "stupid" seems to mean "ignorant" here. I think we are mainly talking about lack of education, learning, and appreciation of arts etc. Most young people are actually very keen to learn what their future world is likely to be about. However, "education" is usually defined to be what those in power want the young ones to learn, including manners that do not question the power structure. So youngsters have two points of criticism about the system: a) it may prevent them from gaining a higher social status than their parents ("The Wall"), and b) since the times are a-changing, it may even let them fall off the ladder. Times change rapidly now, and the sense of social stability is crumbling everywhere. Student protests tend to be somewhat inarticulate, but I clearly hear "Give us an eduction that is worth our time, sweat, and money!" It is up to the whole society, notably the mass media, to discuss what this may be and to convince our youth of it. Leave Charlie Parker and Luther Whatshisname to those who really care for them. (Nothing wrong with good potatos though.) Grishka (who has lived in many countries and witnessed similar phenomena; Down Under in the 1980s) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Bobert Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:37 AM Good points, mouse... Yeah, ever since Daddy Bush began his class warfare by demonizing educated people seems that there are way too many people, my neighbors included, who are not only ignorant (uneducated) but ***damned proud*** to be so... Until we turn this around we will continue to slip down the slippery slope of ignorance... (That sound's purdy "elitist" on yer part, Boberdz...) See what I mean??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: GUEST,kendall Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:20 AM The ability to tell if a deck of cards is shy one card is easy if you can count. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: MGM·Lion Date: 04 Jan 11 - 07:30 AM Remember that for every Beethoven, Mozart etc, there may have been dozens as good who went unrecognised. ========== Right, Don. And, as I have posted before, it was at least in part the recognition of something salvaged from all that terrible waste that first attracted me to folk. ~Michael~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 04 Jan 11 - 06:25 AM In my not too humble opinion, anybody who seriously proposes that a whole nation of human beings are stupid (no matter what the evidence put forward in support), is telling more about his level of intelligence than theirs. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: GUEST,Patsy Date: 04 Jan 11 - 06:17 AM Same here in UK 'We doe need no edukishen' is the anthem here but more the 'Just another brick in the Wall' bit and I did wonder what that had to do with the student fee issue, because eduation is what they are after isn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 04 Jan 11 - 06:14 AM ""I'm not sure what you mean. Johannes Kepler taught geometry class for kids. They had schools then."" Of course they did, but only for the children of rich people. The rest were up chimneys, out in the fields, or pinching silk hankies and purses. Hardly likely to find out, let alone achieve, their potential. Today, every child with a talent has at least a good chance of utilising it. Remember that for every Beethoven, Mozart etc, there may have been dozens as good who went unrecognised. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 04 Jan 11 - 06:00 AM "We doe need no edukishen" is the anthem of the pubescent of all nations and times, and never fails to shock their teachers. Sadly, some youngsters actually take it for serious, and some parents refuse to be shocked. "Australia got no culcher" is another boast (!) I heard from people who were frequently caught reading books. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: akenaton Date: 04 Jan 11 - 05:33 AM People are the children of their society, our society is built on greed and selfishness and as a result our driving forces are not education and knowledge, but avarice and materialism. If "education" is such a wonderful thing why did the finest minds in the world not recognise what was happening within our economic system. Of course many of them did, and were happy to contribute to the disaster as long as they were benefiting personally. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 04 Jan 11 - 05:08 AM It seems to me that wilful ignorance, in much of the English speaking world, is connected with the concept of 'coolness' - especially, of course, among the young. Many people seem to regard education, books etc. as 'uncool' (not fashionable) and, therefore, as things to be avoided. I'm aware that I'm on shaky ground here but I would venture that sociologists might describe 'coolness' as a 'meme' i.e. the social equivalent of an infectious virus (feel free to tell me I'm talking rubbish!). If I'm right, do we need to be looking for ways to 'vaccinate' our society against this virulent plague? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: John MacKenzie Date: 04 Jan 11 - 05:06 AM In the US list of Nobel prize winners quoted earlier in this thread, 25% were born outside the US. Considering the population of the US, maybe the percentage of winners is lower than most? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: mousethief Date: 04 Jan 11 - 03:33 AM The problem with these "by the time they're in 5th grade" pronouncements is that they're like assholes: everybody has one. There's no way we can teach all the things all the people want to teach children before they're in 5th grade. Decisions have to be made and things get pared down. Charlie Parker isn't the only great jazz musician that you might want children to know about. And jazz musicians aren't the only great musicians. And musicians aren't the only great artists. And art isn't the only great .... No, it's not sad that kids don't know who Charlie Parker is. Pick any one star in the constellation that defines your taste and knowledge, and ask the same thing. Kids could do nothing but memorize names, rough dates, and one or two biographical tidbits about famous people, and spend the entire time from their 5th to 18th years, and not memorize everyone that every Wynton Marsalis equivalent would like them to. It's not reasonable. Alanabit said, I do not know America, but it is only in Britain that I have actually heard people proudly declare things like, "I don't want to be clever like no f***ing foreigner..." It was also the British who came up with the expression, "Too clever by half". We are a culture which often shows an inbuilt resistance to culture and education. Any teacher will tell you that it is only possible to educate people with the students' permission. I have met thick Americans, for sure, but it is only in the UK that I have met people who take pride in the fact that they have barely progressed past the first stages of evolution! This is true in America, too. In our last presidential election supporters of the pig in lipstick were loudly proud that they weren't no stinking edumacated intellekshuls. Educated people are "the elite" and are to be avoided and denigrated and shunned. And our kids feel it too: kids that excel, that really want to learn and be smart, are more and more the objects of derision and even physical assault. We're beating ourselves back into the stone age, and even when we get there the ones that can actually make clovis points will be beat up for being too smart and "elitist". God help us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Slag Date: 04 Jan 11 - 02:24 AM Some folks, if they play cards long enough, can tell if the deck be shy one card. I can, but not everybody can. So it is with pitch. When you can tell a 440 A from a 443 A or a 444 A, I'd say that is absolutely perfect pitch. PS Don't correct my grammar. I wrote what I intended to write. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Don Firth Date: 03 Jan 11 - 11:12 PM mg, (may I be so informal as to call you "m?"), having heard you sing on many occasions, and having heard some of the excellent songs you've written, I'd say that you could probably manage to struggle through life quite well without knowing who Charlie Parker is. By the way, Charlie Parker is a well-known (by jazz aficionados) jazz saxophone player. Rejoice! Now, your life is complete!! Charlie Parker bears the nickname "the Bird." There was another jazz musician named Charlie Byrd (d. 1999), with whom I am much more familiar. He played jazz on a nylon-string classical guitar, using classic technique. I'm forever getting saxophonist Charlie ("the Bird") Parker and guitarist Charlie Byrd mixed up. Forgive me, josepp, but I honestly don't think that makes me "stupid." After all, I'm familiar with most classical works, I know the plots of many operas, I can sing several hundred folk songs and ballads, both British Isles and America (including Canada), and although I'm not really a blues aficionado, I have heard in person, met, and talked with blues singers Lightnin' Hopkins, Mance Lipscomb, and Mississippi John Hurt (at three different Berkeley Folk Festivals). m (being informal), I've always enjoyed your singing. I wish I were more mobile than I am presently and could get to such events as Sunny Camp and Rainy Camp so I could hear you again. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Smokey. Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:41 PM Be fair, Ron, we didn't have a great deal of choice.. Though it should be noted that the statistics on which this thread is based are quite meaningless without similar statistics from elsewhere for comparison. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Ron Davies Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:35 PM Of course I don't mean "larger number" but "higher percentage". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Ron Davies Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:31 PM Well, let's see. In the sweepstakes of absurdly meaningless and questionable assertions, let's try this. In the US we now have turned our backs on 200-plus years of racism to enough of an extent that we have elected a black man to the highest office--and he is trying--against powerful forces-- to better the condition of most citizens, including those whose interests have not been taken into account for quite a while. In the UK the brilliant voters there have elected a coalition including a party which, unsurprisingly, now promises to cut about 25% across the board in the budget, and tells UK citizens that the "Big Society" can step in--i.e. you have to do progressively more for yourself that the government used to do for you--like it or not. So I wonder where the larger number of stupid people are. Seems fairly obvious--and it's not the US. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Amos Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:12 PM Charlie Parker, a.k.a. "Yardbird" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: mg Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:05 PM I was hoping someone would tell me who Charles Parker was and thank heavens someone just did..I guess a jazz musician. I don't tend to be up on jazz musicians as it hurts my ears so I would never seek out information on them, but if it is information I should know, why has no one until now told me this? mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Don Firth Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:04 PM I watched that particular 60 Minutes program, and although Wynton Marsalis lamented the recent neglect of the arts in public education, he didn't put it quite as harshly as josepp would have us believe. Morley Safer was the interviewer, and here is that part of the conversation (cut-and-pasted from the CBS website): "Does it sadden you that, for the most part, young people may not even know who you're talking about when you say Charlie Parker or Duke Ellington?" Safer asked.Josepp has rather a habit of overstating whatever case he is trying to make. By the way, not everyone can develop perfect (absolute) pitch. That's when someone taps a wine glass and can say, accurately, "That's an F#." Most people, if started early enough, can learn to do it, but some can't. I understand that it's a genetic thing. To be able to make any kind of practical use of having absolute pitch (precisely accurate tonal memory), one must learn that a particular note is called C#. Or G natural. One must learn what the notes are labeled. There are certain disadvantages to having perfect pitch, however. When I was going to the Cornish School of the Arts in Seattle, I met a fellow with perfect pitch who said that he was going to have to move to a new apartment. In the one he was in, the refrigerator buzzed in A and the busses went by in Bb, and it woke him up at night. It was driving him crazy! Most people CAN, however, develop relative pitch. That's when someone plays two notes together and although the person with relative pitch may not be able to tell you which notes they are, he or she can say, accurately, "That's minor 3rd." This is a matter of ear training, and almost anyone with normal hearing can learn to do it. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Bobert Date: 03 Jan 11 - 09:51 PM I like the "heat", Amos... He's got US down... Not you and me, but US in general... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Smokey. Date: 03 Jan 11 - 09:06 PM On pitch: there is absolute pitch and there is relative pitch. Either can be perfect, but perfect absolute pitch is much rarer than perfect relative pitch. I'm not sure perfect absolute pitch can be taught, save where there is a natural ability to be nurtured. Most people have some sense of relative pitch, and that can usually be improved upon with training. 'Relative' is a more accurate term for what I was calling 'perfect'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Ed T Date: 03 Jan 11 - 09:00 PM On reflection, Amos spelled backwards is Soma. "I don't understand anything," she said with decision, determined to preserve her incomprehension intact. "Nothing. Least of all," she continued in another tone "why you don't take soma when you have these dreadful ideas of yours. You'd forget all about them. And instead of feeling miserable, you'd be jolly. So jolly," Soma, Oh, the Soma |
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Subject: RE: BS: Americans are truly stupid From: Amos Date: 03 Jan 11 - 08:51 PM You're speaking in swooping generalities that are a lot more heat than light, Joseph. Why not throttle back and see if you can put some accurate propositions together that are not based on hysteria, which is, after all, not an intelligent way to communicate? Unless, of course, you LIKE screaming at your own reflection... |
