BS: Racism in the UK media

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Oct 12 - 05:04 AM

How about, Up With Noggin The Nog, a much underrated early tv animation.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 02 Oct 12 - 12:40 PM

Alright Keith, but if you start a thread called Down with the Nig Nogs!

You will disappoint me greatly......

cheers

al

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Oct 12 - 02:44 AM

Backwoodsman, I agree to differ with anyone, not least Jim.
(at least until everyone realises that I am right about everything!)

But, when I disagree with Jim about anything, he drags out the accusations of racism whatever the thread.

Al, why didn't I think of that?
Dear Jim trots out yet another grovelling, humbling apology but is unable to promise to stop doing it, so I will deploy your standard response at the first opportunity (later this morning?).

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Oct 12 - 01:32 AM

Keith, I think we were sting at the same time.

Both of you - the ability to agree to differ is a sign of a well-balanced, mature adult. Time to give it up and move on, don'cha fink? After all, we're none of us getting any younger, and it could all end today.

Worf finkin' abaht?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 08:00 PM

Okay one last time.

Just supposing you go to word, Keith. Make a document up and keep it somewhere you remember on your computer.

Then if Jim contributes to any thread that you are involved in, you cut and paste, this pre-emptive message.

'Jim, I fully accept that you think I am a racist, and as such worthy of abuse. This is something I dispute and is vehemently denied by several Mudcatters who have met me personally; my family; the members of my church, and my community.

That aside, these are some opinions I wish to express and some facts I wish to highlight and discuss on this forum.

Therefore can we take your opinion of me personally as a given, and have a debate as to what I have to say, nonetheless.'

Just an idea.....

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 05:43 PM

I am a soup man, but turnip is a new dimension for me.
Thanks Kevin.
Backwoodsman, did you miss that I am happy to let it stop here?
Very happy thank you.
You could tell us if you think those signs are "common throughout Britain" or if there is any issue with BPs in the child trafficking horror, but I am done.
Thanks Al.
Thanks Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 03:42 PM

Here is a website with lots of recipes for delicious turnip soup.

I suggest that some of us turn our attention to trying them out.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 03:22 PM

Wasting your time, Al. It's Groundhog Day - always is when those two get going.
When my kids wouldn't stop the "Oh yes you did", " Oh no I didn't" crap, I used to pull their pants down and slap their bare arses. Thankfully, they managed to grow up. Shame the Usual Suspects don't seem to have done.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 03:20 PM

Jim did not just disagree with me about the signs, he said I was lying.
The second thread forced him to retract the accusation (a first) and proved him wrong.
His refusal to admit being wrong made him look silly.
Why does he do it?

On the over-rep, he did not just disagree, he said it made me a racist.
Now everyone knows it is a fact and his continued denial makes him look silly again.

I am done with both.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 12:49 PM

I can't order you to be sensible Keith.

But, bottom line, do these seem like worthwhile and stimulating exchanges of point of view to you?

Perhaps this isn't the forum. When i saw the gypsy thread, i thought - he's calling Jim out.

You might feel like Wyatt Earp, but then again you could be Ike Clanton. The gunfight at the OK Corral was over in forty five seconds. How many years has this nonsense been going on?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 12:04 PM

You seen to be utterly impervious to the utter crassness of, on the one hand whining about being identified as a racist while, at the same time making racist claims on a subject on which figures simply do not exist.
You appear to be attempting to make this another of your 'Muslim prejudice' threads - please feel free - that should put to rest once and for all whether or not you are a racist
You are on your own
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 11:29 AM

No - I didn't overlook your gleeful news which in no way impinges on the culture of 1,000,000 British residents, as much as you might like it to.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 10:35 AM

Divis told me a different reason, but who knows.

Are you asking me to avoid certain subjects because they might cause Jim to explode?
Does he then have a right to call me racist?
Will you not criticise him for that, as you do me for not being sensitive to his sore points?
He is a grown up.

Am I not allowed to discuss with others anything that might set Jim off again?

Jim himself brought up the traveller signs issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 10:23 AM

Jonathan King , and now Jimmy saville ....no word in the media about over represemtation of BBC presenters!..

No Keith I'm saying some people are prickly on certain subjects You know...Hitler on Jews, Thatcher on Unions, Scargill on Thatcher, J Edgar Hoover on Dillinger.....

The likelihood of getting a sensible argument, if you have divergent views is negligible. Therefore neglect it. Find some area , you can talk about.

Incidentally Divis e-mailed med told me he was leaving Mudcat, because you were doing his head in. I was sorry to see him go, and I would be sorry to see you go.

You do remind me a bit of me when I was a kid. I used to drive my dodgem car the other way from what all the other cars were going - so that it would crash violently. The dodgem man used to sling me off for not playing nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 09:15 AM

Just replying to Al.
Is that allowed Jim?
I must not "rattle your cage" or I will deserve more abuse from you.

I posted on some media racism earlier.
Did you miss it?

The Times last Monday.
"The Times has published several articles about a pattern of crimes across northern England and the Midlands involving groups of men, largely of Pakistani heritage, and the sexual abuse of white girls aged from 12 to 16."

Do you still deny there is an over-representation Jim?

The Guardian this time.
"There is a small minority of Pakistani men who believe that white girls are fair game," Warsi told the London Evening Standard after the jailing of nine men for their part in a child sexual exploitation gang. "We have to be prepared to say that. You can only start solving a problem if you acknowledge it first."

Warsi, who is Britain's first Muslim to have a full cabinet seat, spoke out after the nine men from Rochdale were jailed for a total of 77 years at Liverpool crown court last week for sexually abusing young girls. The victims, the youngest of whom was 13 when the abuse began, were passed around the group of men for sex after being plied with food, alcohol and drugs.

Vaz, the former Europe minister who is now chairman of the commons home affairs select committee, said he did not believe the crimes were a "race issue".

But Warsi, who was prompted to speak out after her father condemned the abuse as "stomach-churningly sick", took a different view in her Evening Standard interview. "This small minority who see women as second class citizens, and white women probably as third class citizens, are to be spoken out against," she said.

Still deny it Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 08:56 AM

"Why do you post so little asking Jim to stop calling me a racist?"
I really think I've just about had enough of this pathetic whining.
If you are not able to defend your own ideas, please stop trying to involve others.
Al hasn't done a half-bad job in trying to put a stop to this farce, with no help from you, not even a glimmer of recognition of your own role in our arguments.
This thread is not about me or you - it is about racism and the media.
If you have nothing to say on the subject, please allow others who might have to do so.
Your behaviour is becoming embarrassing
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 08:35 AM

Divis Sweeney Re: Thanks 17 Oct 2005 04:07 PM   
   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message:
Dear Keith
Thats the problem with guests, they don't understand us ! Of course we cut hell out of eachother, but isn't why we come here. Proud to say I have never walked away from computer angry. As long as you understand me and please Keith never take offense at anything I ever say. Yes that guy this morning seems too serious for us ! Thought I had to say something.
Best wishes and look forward to your next go at me !
Seamus Sweeney

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 08:32 AM

Divis and I had opposite views on Irish Republicanism.
We debated it endlessly.
On pm we were friends.

Whatever we are discussing, Jim always starts accusing me of racism.
Are you saying he can't help it?
Are you saying it is my fault because I disagree with him about how common a sign is?
Are you not blaming the victim?
Why do you post so little asking Jim to stop calling me a racist?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,al whittle
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 08:14 AM

the sanctityof Jim is not really the issue - I'm sure there are many witnesses to his miracles.

The subject under discussion is these deranged exchanges; first with Divis, now with Jim.

I don't think its a line of defence that would stand up in court - its not me, its the fireworks's fault. i just lit the blue touch paper...

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 06:30 AM

It is called discussion Al, and is what the forum is for.
We debate our differing views.
You and I expect to be challenged when we post our thoughts.
Why must St. Jim never be challenged however silly his posts?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 05:42 AM

the absolute truth about anything is hard to determine Keith - why is your starting point what Jim thinks - an old chap - not even living in this country?

Why do you give a shit about what he thinks? He's entitled to his thoughts over there in Ireland.If you draw enough attention to yourself - he will probably give his thoughts about you.

Me personally, I don't ask his thoughts about me. I advise you not to, by not rattling his cage.

Hint; the subject of what he perceives as persecuted minorities is inclined to set him off.

But you knew that, eh...you old divil!

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 04:00 AM

Back to the topic.
The Times last Monday.
"The Times has published several articles about a pattern of crimes across northern England and the Midlands involving groups of men, largely of Pakistani heritage, and the sexual abuse of white girls aged from 12 to 16."

Do you still deny there is an over-representation Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 03:53 AM

I did apologogise Jim.
You start accusing me, and I refute the accusations.
I am sorry that happens, but only you can stop it Jim by not starting it.
Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 03:26 AM

Far from apologising for, or even acknowledging his part in our disputes, which have ruined thread after thread, Keith seem intent on provoking more.
I'm grateful for to you Al for attempting to mediate here - a somewhat thankless task, but I fear you are wasting your time and, should you follow this garbage up, you will find yourself equally sucked into yet another black hole - please leave it.
As it seems that Keith, far from apologising for past misdeeds, intends to continue on the course he has set himself; I suggest he is left to it.
The topic here was 'racism in the UK media' - if anybody thinks they wish to continue on that theme, I suggest they do so and not allow another thread to come crashing down in flames.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 02:57 AM

I've never seen one. You've never seen one. Lotsa people never seen one.

Whatever the truth, we're not exactly tripping over the buggers, are we?

When I said that I was called a liar.
Why should I let that stand?
Why is it "bonkers" ever to disagree with St.Jim, or show that he is wrong about something?

And above all, why does that make it OK for him to constantly call me nasty, abusive names?

not all Keith's fault. Theres a lot of people like him.
Like what Al?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 02:07 AM

I've never seen one. You've never seen one. Lotsa people never seen one.

Whatever the truth, we're not exactly tripping over the buggers, are we?

For God's sake Keith. there's no discussion there, much less an argument. If Jim says he's seen lots of them, he's obviously looked in different places from us. that's quite likely as he's spent time hanging out with gypsies.

If I saw a group of caravans coming down he street, he'd probably see one outside my house.

If you engage in this nonsense much longer, you will go bonkers. none of us want that, old friend!

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 01:22 AM

Al, Jim raised the issue about the signs, saying they were common throughout Britain.
When I said I had never seen one, he said I was lying and he said it in big, red capital letters.
Was that acceptable?
Should I just roll over again?
I had no way of knowing if contributors would say they were common or not.
I could think of no other way to settle the disagreement, but whatever I do is wrong, and Jim is always the victim.
Right?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: ollaimh
Date: 01 Oct 12 - 12:40 AM

yeah imagine instutional racism in the uk? who'd a thunk.

the uk is agrueablly the most bloodthirsty militarist nation in human history, having made war in almost every corner of the globe and committed genocide in ireland against north american natives and ran the slave trade for a considerable period of time, to only name few. as i have said many times there are many fine things about uk culture and people but the society is based on racism and class bigotry all wrought by centuries of militarism. they call it the military industrial complex in the usa but i prefer just military capitalism.

the first step to real change is to recognize the truth and to stop the delusional self righteousness of the most imperialist culture in history

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,al Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 08:31 PM

Perhaps you you wouldn't need to refute those accusations if you didn't start threads like the no gypsies here signs being common.

Starting the thread was only going to flush out Jim, and you must have bloody well known it, cos i certainly did. Its a bit like wearing a Birmigham City rosette and scarf at Villa Park.

Reminds me of my Aunty Rose = those protestants, they walk down our street!

I suspect if you'd lived in Liverpool at the time , you would have known which streets to walk down. And god knows we've all been pounding the pavements of Mudcatville long enough, to know that much about each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 05:04 PM

OK Jim.
I apologize to this forum for refuting Jim's constant accusations of racism.
When the accusations stop, I promise faithfully to stop refuting them.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 04:51 PM

"So you are still claiming I have made racist posts Jim."
Read what I said Keith - there is no reason for me to repeat anything.
This is about your needing to apologise to the members of this forum
"If he was a real Socialist,"
I don't think I've met a "real Socialist" who was a blazing homophobe who wants to send all immigrants back to where they came from and would dare suggest that mass (and very sane) murderer should have been listened to as his arguments were valid - a candidate for the salt mines I would have thought
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 04:36 PM

So you are still claiming I have made racist posts Jim.
That outbreak of peace did not last long did it!

I refute that I have ever made a racist post, I am no racist, and I think you should stop making these ad hominem personal attacks on me.

I will continue to be polite and courteous in my posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 04:19 PM

"Committed Socialist" my arse!

If he was a real Socialist, he might have some understanding of the meaning of real equality and perhaps a clue about how to attain it.
There's a literary reference in Scotland which says "Ye need smeddum tae be richt coorse or richt kind"

Keith has it...Jim does not.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 03:20 PM

definitely not a tory, I should have thought, or a lib/dem....

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 03:15 PM

That should, of course, read
so they could substitute "You're only saying that because you're a committed Socialist". for honest argument
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 03:06 PM

This has nothing to do with your racism Keith - your posting history (right up to your most recent) deals with that far more eloquently than I ever could.
I have apologised - not to you - for the fact that our arguments have destroyed more worthwhile threads than I care to remember and both of us bear responsibility and are obliged to apologise, if for no other reason than in the hope that it doesn't happen again.
So far you have avoided taking any responsibility whatever for your part - I will await with interest to see if you have the good grace to do so.
Al
I was interested in your analysis of my politics.
"committed socialist,"
Am I? Two rather nasty little post-McCarthyites gave me a grilling not so long ago, no doubt so they could substitute honest argument for "You're only saying that because you're a committed Socialist".
My arguments throughout my time on this forum have been humanitarian ones; never trailed my coat for any particular political philosophy, not on Mudcat anyway.
"disciple of Ewan Maccoll"
I always admired MacColl's dedication to workers' causes and his basic humanity, but I found his political theory a mixed bag at times.
One of the most pleasant times of my life was the month or so I lived with them while I found a home in London, much of which was spent sitting in the garden with Ewan arguing the toss about Ireland, Trotsky and the Soviet Union - when I should have been looking for a flat and a job - happy days!.
You are right about the Travellers though - quite horrific to be close to the last respectable brand of racism - still going strong after centuries, if not millenia of persecution
No offence taken you understand, one out of three right isn't too bad.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 02:06 PM

All I have ever claimed is that most of these offenders are BPs.
The debate was because some folk denied that obvious truth.
Jim still does.
That does not make me abusive to him, but it has made him very abusive to me.
But that is all over now.
Thanks.
Anything I can do in return?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 01:13 PM

The majority of serial killers are indeed from the majority population, as are sex offenders.
When the majority of offenders are from a minority group, you have to wonder if there is a link.

Jim, I thank you for your conciliatory promise to stop calling me a racist.
Is there anything I can stop doing in return?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 09:57 AM

Foget it Al - I'm sure you've got the message by now.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 08:43 AM

'fools'.....Keith, Jim was trying to be conciliatory. The BP community is a big place. most serial killers are white Englishmen. Would you say there was a connection there with our community. I don't think so.

Can't you see why a statement like that would make a bloke like Jim angry....committed socialist, disciple of Ewan Maccoll, spent years working with a much maligned minority group...think!

Respect peoples sensitivities.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 08:41 AM

Jim, I genuinely do not know what it is that I should stop doing.
Just tell me.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 08:33 AM

I am accused of racism, and I refute it.
On the subject of child trafficking, I have posted very little.
My whole case on the 2011 thread was that it was foolish to deny a link with the BP community.
I only found myself repeating it because fools kept denying it.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 07:50 AM

Come on Keith - you won't admit to even a modest bang! A controlled explosion....?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 05:39 AM

Cop on Keith - we've both behaved abominably on this forum and the fact that you won't put your hands up and recognise it indicates that it's quite likely to happen again
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 04:58 AM

I do not bang on about it Al.
Very few of my posts are about that issue, and I never start the threads.

What has "naused up" all these threads is Jim accusing me of racism, and me refuting it.
Jim, if you would just stop accusing me, I will immediately stop refuting.
Now Jim, what is it I do that you object to?

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 04:17 AM

The problem with your position Keith is this:-

There are areas of the country where the chance of having a muslim as your neighbour is pretty remote. Plus there are people who alive (myself included) who have seen the population of this country go from less than fifty million to where we are now- they've seen the economic make up of the country change (not always to their liking) and they blame it on the immigrants. And it disinclines them to mix with the new settlers and their families.

All in all - it is a climate of ignorance.

From the other side too. People who try and bring the values of rural villages in the subcontinent to to the busy towns and cities of England. Bloody tough on their kids.

But they ain't all scroungers and perverts, and we ain't all paki-bashers.

Keep banging on about the what's seriously fucked up about the present situation is not helping anyone - least of all yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 03:32 AM

Thanks for that Al - can't see a great deal to argue with there (a few points based on different experiences maybe, but nothing serious)
I was an apprentice for a ship repair firm on the Liverpool docks where I saw Catholics and Protestant (not races I know, but the same applies) work together happily - until the shipping coming into the river for repair slackened off. Then it was like a wall had been erected between the two groups; If you were Catholic you didn't get taken on at Cammell Lairds, Protestants didn't work at Brown's. In the present economic climate race is one of the things that will be used to stop us from looking for where the blame for the present situation really lies - while we're at each others throats we're not bothering too much that the bankers are screwing us to maintain their obscene bonuses.   
I'm more interested in opposing the ideas of racism than squabbling with the people who put them forward, though I am aware that this doesn't always come over in my postings, but this is very much a two way street. I realise that the cause of Keith and I constantly nausing up so many thread lies at both our doors and I'm sure the key to our not stopping it is by our recognising that fact and consciously trying not to let it happen again by both of us taking our share of the blame - can't speak for the other team though.
Must try harder.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 12 - 02:58 AM

You are a blessed peace maker Al, but I do not recognise myself in your post.
One problem is that the crime is so cruel, and children have died, that emotions can run away.
Cover ups and secrecy have been a gift to racist groups.
My simple view is that nothing about these people should be concealed.
"Muslims" does not describe them.
"Asians" does not describe them.
Pakistani describes most, but they are a tiny minority of that hard working and law abiding community.
It makes it worse not better to attempt to conceal or deny an obvious fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 07:12 PM

Unlike you Jim, who thinks that England is a deeply racist country. I bloody well know it is.

My wife is very upfront about it, she says things like - I don't care for racist talk in my house. But mainly to my friends that she didn't like anyway.

One night at her arthritis group, they did a stand up comedy night. Everybody had to tell a joke. One lady, who did wonderful work on the committee, told a racist joke. And your heart sinks.

I'm afraid its there in the warp and weft of where we are now. The Daily Mail (that I buy for my sister when she comes to stay) really deeply offends with at least one, and usually more headlines whenever she stays with me. I don't understand how anyone of normal sensitivities can stand to have it in the house.

Racism is more typical of where are, than we are, who feel the way we do. and that's why people like Keith talk the way they do. they don't realise - its every responsible citizens duty to minimise the effect rather than draw attention. In the present climate - its asin of ommission. Not a black sin - as your posts hint.

I can remember also - trying to explain to a GCSE student from a family with Asian roots. His essay on abortion had to discuss both sides of the question - otherwise it was just a rant, not a balanced essay. Resembling something copied from a piece of SPUC propaganda. The student couldn't see it. As far as he could see it - there could be no alternative viewpoint.

Most muslim kids get religious knowledge lessons at the mosque, and they seem to me to get as heavy an anti-liberal shot of propaganda, as my Catholic cousins used to get.

And when the freedoms that have had to fought for are just discarded - our whole culture seen as some sort of morally corrupt and bankrupt entity. You should be disquieted.

not all Keith's fault. Theres a lot of people like him. And the signalsthey're getting, well - it ain't all good news.

Incidentally the BNP, or someone in their ranks, put me on a few websites as well - a queer lot!

Subject: RE: BS: Racism in the UK media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 05:34 PM

missed a bit:
was a little more than a dedication to an idea – disturbing or what - or maybe you'd like to suppost Keith's suggestions - I hope not?
Jim Carroll