BS: smoking in uk pubs

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Scrump
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:12 AM

The bad news, though, is that patio heaters aren't energy efficient, and contribute to global warming.....

You're right - I believe these are particularly bad for the environment and should be banned, IMO :-)

According to an article on the BBC website, a patio heater emits as much CO2 in 2 hours as a car would emit all day (see here).

I wonder what effect all the smokers are having on the environment, and what benefit it would have if they were all to give up? Are there any figures?

The main problems with introducing the smoking ban are

(a) that it affects people other than the person doing it, a message which seems difficult to get across to smokers, who often compare it to drinking, breastfeeding and other things; and

(b) the status quo is always difficult to change - it's always more difficult to remove a privilege than introduce it. I would call smoking in pubs a privilege that is about to be withdrawn, rather than a "right".

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:09 AM

Smart bugger CG :-)

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 09:38 AM

Aye, hard to have smoking without flaming!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 09:31 AM

Thats really up to you Strollin' and I never implied that you did, but IMHO this thread was heading into serious flaming. I was as guilty as anyone. We all have our opinions and I have very strong views about smoking, just like you and that won't ever change, but this thread is going nowhere if we are all f'ing and blinding at each other.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 08:39 AM

Telling hard truths has never killed anyone.

If the way we tell hard truths has the effect that people keep on smoking, when they otherwise might have given it up, is that really true?

Or is the idea of the diatribes to give those indulging in them personal satisfaction, rather than to help other people give up smoking?

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 08:30 AM

I don't regret anything I've said, Villan.
I believe in straight talking. I tell it the way I see it. If other sensitive souls find it hard to take then that's a problem for them. Maybe they need to grow a skin or, better still, take a good look at themselves and their own effect on others.

Telling hard truths has never killed anyone. Smoking kills hundreds of thousands, including thousands who have never smoked in their lives.

If, in someone else's view, I'm a bastard twat, so be it - in the 60 years I've been around, I've been abused by experts and I don't give a flying f**k. At least I'm true to my own standards.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 08:11 AM

I gave up and smoked my last cigarette on New Years Day 1983. My ex-husband had been advised to stop and I felt that it would be unfair for me to keep on smoking.

There was a period of time when I would have walked on broken glass for a cigarette but the real cravings only lasted for about six months and then it was more habit that was making me miss smoking.

It helped that I had real withdrawal symptoms - stomach cramps were the worst- and had a very uncomfortable week getting past that. That kept me from starting again, the thought of having to go through that extreme discomfort was enough to keep me tobacco free.

After a while the thought of starting again just made me 'taste' that cigarette and THAT made me feel ill. I went through a long period of being fiercly anti smoking but then got to a little toleration, especially since my best buddy at the time was a smoker (luckily of roll ups, which don't have quite the pervasiveness of tailor mades). Since Kendall and I got together the idea of going out with him to anywhere where smoking is allowed is a no no. He lost his voice as a result of the habit and, if you've heard any of his CDs, you will know what a loss that was.

Nowadays there are so many aids to stopping smoking and the financial savings really do make it worthwhile. Best of luck to anyone out there who is trying to give up the weed.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 06:12 AM

And if it's the nicotine people are after there are other ways - snuff for example.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 05:51 AM

Have sex instead LOL That will also get you fit :-)

30 years since I stopped and do not have any desire or craving to start again.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 05:32 AM

Good words, Guest.
I hve to confess that one of the reasons for my intolerance of smoking now is because I am an ex-smoker, and realise just how strong a hold nicotine can exert. I still sometimes smoke in my dreams, and there are times - say on a crisp winter's night with a fine whisky - that I crave a good cigar.
It is one of the strongest addictions known to man, and it took the death of a very dear friend from a disease that was entirely smoking-related to persuade me finally to kick the habit - even though both my parents had gone to their deaths prematurely because of smoking.
But, as Guest wisely implies, the carrot is oft-times more effective than the stick - so to anyone browsing this forum who is trying to give up, good luck. The cravings last for six minutes at most, so distract yourself for just that short period and you've taken another step.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 04:54 AM

the last post (no pun intended) from villan has been the one of the best in this thread. MCgrath also touched on it.
Encourage people, some of whom are your friends, to give up give them support rather than castigate them, love is always better than abuse.

It is hard to tell what people put in text is exactly what they mean, but some posters have made it very clear that they wouldn't support someone giving up but they will knock them for not doing so.


Let's look forward the ban is comming in let's support people who are trying to kick their addiction (because that's what it is)

signed

A smoker who has now stopped for seven years but not entirely sure I have beaten it.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: skipy
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 04:40 AM

Hi, Villan, we all kissed & made up last night so all is o/k.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: skipy
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 04:38 AM

100 (a day!)
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 04:20 AM

Skipy
>>Villan, for goodness sake, he bowls into here calls all & sundry "Bastard twats" & you want to embrace him.
<<

We all say and do things that later when we reflect on it, maybe wished we haden't or maybe have toned it down.

Guest Concearned did apologise, and it seems will join and is on the folkie scene.

I am all for forgive and forget.

Anyway Skipy if you went 11 years without smoking, you can do it again. It just requires a determination to stop. You will also feel all the better for it. So give it a go again.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 07 - 03:58 AM

I live in the West of Ireland in a town where all the pubs are small, one roomed affairs. In general they are run on small profit margins.
The smoking ban has been in place now for a couple of years, has worked like a charm and is here to stay. The effect it has had on custom is very much swings and roundabouts; some people have stopped coming in, but others have increased their visits because of the additional comfort. Overall, it has had no adverse effect whatsoever.
It has been accepted wholeheartedly by smokers and non-smokers alike (with a few, begrudging exceptions - but you salways get them).
As a non-smoker I no longer get sore eyes and shortage of breath while enjoying a pint; my clothes don't smell like somebody else's old ash-tray the following morning and, best of all, the risk of my lungs being turned into lace curtains has lessened considerably.
I could, of course, give up the pint, the company and the music that my local offers so that people can continue their anti-social, unhealthy and eventually fatal habit, but somehow that seems a little unfair.
To those who suggest smoke-free areas in pubs, a letter to a newspaper summed it up beautifully:
'Having a smoke-free area in an enclosed building is like having a pee-free area in a swimming pool'.
Good health,
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:25 PM

The difference is, beer is good for you.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: skipy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 06:18 PM

Divorce! way back in 1981.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 06:15 PM

11 years impressive - what started you off again?

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: skipy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 06:03 PM

I gave up once for 11 years!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 06:02 PM

Skipy

You don't need resolve to carry on, because it's what you do anyway. It would take resolve to stop (as would, one day, I'll stop drinking beer...).

Kitty (who doesn't smoke, but does drink beer)

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: skipy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:53 PM

Take care.
Regards Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST,concearned
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:46 PM

Villan, I thank you. I will and I am.
Good night and God bless.

Skipy...........Same to you.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: skipy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:45 PM

Jacqui, I was hoping to stop but this crap has given me the resolve to carry on, I am actively increasing my smoking!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:37 PM

Skipy - you could always stop smoking. You have time between now and July. Just think of the money you would save!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:30 PM

Smokers don't notice that their clothes are impregnated with the smell of stale cigarettes, or that they reek of smoke.

I've come home from folk clubs and sessions in smoky pubs, and my clothes, skin and hair smell of stale cigarette smoke. I lost my voice at Whitby festival on the first day one year because I was singing in a smoky pub.

I'm looking forward to 1 July.

The bad news, though, is that patio heaters aren't energy efficient, and contribute to global warming.....

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: skipy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:22 PM

Villan, for goodness sake, he bowls into here calls all & sundry "Bastard twats" & you want to embrace him.
I to am really saddened to hear / read what you have been through and hope that it is all behind you now.
Regards Skipy.
Oh & by the way even though you have been quite vitriolic in this thread, I DO respect your point of view, it is just that my life will alter totally in a few months & I will no longer be able to be involved in a lot of local associations & others will lose out too.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:13 PM

Sorry to you as well, I thought you were a smoker, and if anything I was trying to make you see sense. :-)

No need to be sorry about my troubles. I am 8/9 years down the road from that horrible discovery. However, I wouldn't like anybody else to have to suffer.

Well I know one of the three and he is a very nice guy, but like me is anti smoking.

One of the problems is that a forum like this can often in text give the wrong impression.

One of the other problems, is that gueats come on this forum so often and incite and most of us do not take kindly to that. Basically they are wind up merchants. Us members stand up for what we beleive.

However based on your last post, you don't seem like one of those Guests.

Why don't you join Mudcat. Are you a performer or part of the folk scene?

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: skipy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:03 PM

Reveal yourself, coward!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST,concearned
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 05:00 PM

Sorry for your trouble Villan. I don't smoke and I am for the ban.
The sanctamonious attitudes of "The Three Twats" does, however, give me cause for concearn.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 04:42 PM

And when you get Cancer of the bladder like I did through smoking.

You will love them going up your willy with a camera etc and cutting the growth out and the Chemo in the bladder delivered in the same way many times, and the years of going back to be checked to make sure it hasn't come back and again the camera stuck up your Penis. Also the pain and anguish that it brings to your family and the pain and anguish that you feel wondering if you life has come to an end.

Think on GUEST Concearned - don't think that you won't get it.

I think you are the stupid bastard twat that thinks you are invincible.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 04:35 PM

Aye, and one of them was an oncologist. A smug one, at that.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST,concearned
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 04:25 PM

Then there were three!............Bastard twats, that is!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 04:20 PM

Nah, we'll just put a kink in his oxygen tube when he's got terminal emphysema. Watch him drown in his own phlegm - that'd be a larf!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: skipy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 04:10 PM

What a very sad person you are, seek some help.
Best Regards for a speedy recovery.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST,concearned
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 04:07 PM

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

I'd rather stand next to a bar full of smokers than Strollin'Johnny or skipy. What a pair of bastard twats. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: skipy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 12:27 PM

LOL
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 12:14 PM

Just a turn of phrase to express disgust Skipy!
I'd refer to them as 'buggers' - but it might be taken by some as even more offensive! LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: skipy
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:57 AM

Why the comtinuing insinuation that smoker's parents never married?
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:43 AM

ROFLMAO!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:18 AM

I thought getting a twat in the mouth was called muff diving?

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:12 AM

Certainly is for the dirty-bastard smoker who gets twatted. LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: GUEST,concearned
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:02 AM

Is not a "twat" in the mouth also a health issue especially in a strange pub??

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Stu
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:52 AM

"but to be dominated pisses me off"

Hmmm - so it's OK for a smoker to dominate everyone in a pub by physically assaulting them with your carcinogens? Perhaps you would prefer just being able to twat them in the mouth when you go in for a pint?

Truth is, this isn't domination of smokers by non-smokers - it's a health issue. The sooner poor hard-done to smokers get that into their heads, the better for them and everyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:45 AM

Hehe...

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:17 AM

>>
Even I will start going back to the pubs when the smoking stops with my children<<

LOL I will rephase that.


Even I will start going back with my children, to the pubs when the smoking stops.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:15 AM

>>i see even train stations are band<<

Never heard of that Band - are they good?

I don't think you are dominated Fisheye. Lets just say that the majority (non smokers) have actually won against the minority.

Even I will start going back to the pubs when the smoking stops with my children.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: fair maiden of nottingham
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:10 AM

i agree with the segregation, but to be dominated pisses me off.
if a publican employs smokers behind the bar, it should be his choice to allow....as a none smoker you have the right not to enter the pub,
now us smokers have no rights...i see even train stations are band.

hell St.Pancras is in the open air. so where next.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 07:32 AM

McG, come and sit at one of the outside tables at Starbuck's in Lincoln High Street - you'll soon revise your opinion on whether outdoor smoking's a filthy habit. Dozens of cigarette stubs littering the floor around the tables (despite the ash-trays ON the tables), burn-marks on tables and chairs, those butts which are stubbed out and left in the ash-trays to mingle with spilt coffee and wet napkins stink beyond words, ash all over the chairs, and a foul stench of stale tobacco about the area.

Smoking is disgusting. As are its proponents.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 07:06 PM

Outdoors I don't see smoking as a "filthy habit". Liable to be unhealthy, but that's a different matter. Keeps the flies off.

Pipes are a more civilised way of smoking - cigarettes are a convenience smoke, analogous to convenience foods, and in both cases these have tended to displace older and better ways of satisfying the same appetite.

Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 04:24 PM

I stopped going to pubs over ten years ago because I developed an allergy to 'raw' cigarette smoke...that is direct from the cigarette not after inhalation. I smoked from the age of eight until I was 43 yrs old but developed the allergy some 5 yrs after giving up. If I go to a pub/club where people are smoking...even if I don't have a drink...I wake in the morning with what feels like a hangover. So....banning smoking in pubs...for me...is great as I love dancing in those local pubs that allow it and I can go to all the Folk Clubs without fear of hangovers unless I drink too much...which I never do!.