The Weekly Walkabout

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:53 AM

...so we won't be enjoying Little Hawk playing the penny like a skylark, then!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:40 AM

I have attempted to master the pennywhistle on a couple of occasions. I got about as far as the front hallway entrance. I should think that true mastery of this instrument could only be achieved by practicing relentlessly for a period of several months or perhaps even a year. If one reached the point where one could play Mozart accurately and with style on the Pennywhistle whilst hanging upsidedown suspended by one foot over a pit of alligators and still never miss a single note, well...then one would have arrived, as it were.

This I have not done. Nor do I expect to. For one thing, alligators are expensive. For another, the result wouldn't really be worth the effort, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:30 AM

"there's nothing in the least bit traditional about chromaticism" (IB)and I never said there was; I said, rather, that I enjoy playing the tenor recorder (brought back as a student, folk, as well as early music, instrument, early last century, mainly by English and Germans - we now have both English and German fingering), and listening to others play the penny whistle. (My total repertoire now invloves 6/7 keys - I only transpose when the score goes below middle C - the tenor's lowest note.)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:29 AM

This thread is becoming mostly just an excercise in various people trying to "one-up" the other and score some kind of petty verbal victory over them. The only respect in which it's unusual is that WAV is on one side and almost everyone else is on the other side. Other than that it's the normal vain and endless trail of ego-jousting that we see going on all the time on contentious threads here.

Nothing to get excited about, in other words... ;-)

So, may I join the fun too and take a petty shot at someone?

Ahem. I shall now take a shot at Foolestroupe.

****

Foolestroupe, the Leonard Cohen song is not 'First we take Manhattan, then we take New York'. It is 'First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin'.

And if I may paraphrase your own remarks to WAV (after correcting your many typos):

There are far too many widely educated people here - in almost ANY field of knowledge (since many people apart from professional musos (?) also have music as a hobby, while earning their pay from Street Sweepers to Rocket Scientists) to tolerate people like you, Foolestroupe, from just 'making it up as they go along'.

You are rapidly digging yourself into a hole of ridicule and no respect, mate!

Truly, it is better to keep one's mouth closed and be thought a Fool, that to open it and remove all doubt!

****

Heh! Now, wasn't that petty? Oh my, but it was such fun. MMMM...mmm!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:01 AM

I said, just above, Mondotim, that we don't know where the recorder was invented, but, for centuries it has also been known as the English flute (here, e.g.), and I have it as one of my INSTRUMENTS OF (OR CLOSELY ASSOCIATED WITH) ENGLAND.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 11:00 AM

WAV - there's nothing in the least bit traditional about chromaticism, on the contrary; the chromatic tempered scale has been used in the oppression and subjugation of indigenous musical systems & cultures the world over (including those of the British Isles) so what sort of bland boring corporate global musicality are you representing by playing an instrument which a) in in no way shape or form traditional to traditional English music and b) which represents the very music system by which other world & ethnic musics are so ruthlessly impoverished. There is nothing either traditional or English about this instrument; it is vile, unnatural & perverse, and plastic to boot, so donate the fecking thing to your nearest charity shop and invest in a nice Clarke's C (the original key) or one of Dave Shaw's more developed versions of the Clarke's concept, still manufactured, I believe, in County Durham...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: mandotim
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 10:34 AM

Er... WAV, how do you define an 'English' tenor recorder? Given that the recorder is generally supposed to have originated in central Europe, then developed from the Renaissance to the Baroque version before entering wider use in England and the USA? I'd be interested in your research on this, as my brief enquiry suggests that the recorder isn't really an English instrument at all, depite the fact that you play one.
I look forward to your reply, since you ducked my last question on another thread.
Tim

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 10:07 AM

I do indeed try to play like I sing, and sing like I play, Foolestoupe - good or bad at it, that's my thing, within the English tradition. And, in my opinion, the (chromatic) tenor recorder is a bit better for this task than the penny whistle, which I enjoy listening to others play.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 09:41 AM

", quite the opposite happens in fact, cultures become enriched, new and exciting music, dance and art comes into being"

Damn - now WAV can't play 'the English Penny Whistle' - because its ancestor was a corrupting FOREIGN INFLUENCE...

Well if he plays like he sings...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 09:32 AM

... whereas in your ideology (as far as I understand it from your previous posts), all English people should be playing the same English musical instruments, singing the same style of folk songs and hymns, dancing the same English dances, only visiting other nation's cultures as an onlooker.

Just because cultures mix, doesnt necessarily mean that any culture is lost, quite the opposite happens in fact, cultures become enriched, new and exciting music, dance and art comes into being.

We should all celebrate what is local to us, but traditions change and evolve. Traditions that dont evolve often die out.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 09:11 AM

...till we all blend into the one boring capitalist culture, IB?...not if I can help it - I really do love the world being multicultural.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 08:47 AM

(without "twisting the facts")

Okay then - misreading them and (deliberately?) misunderstanding them to fit your increasingly perplexing ideas on Englishness. Scholarship doesn't start, or even end, with conclusions, WAV - just the facts, which need constant analysis, understanding & scrutiny, an approach not altogether conducive to harbouring pet theories which, obviously in your case, just get in the way of seeing things as they actually are.

I do not doubt that the tin whistle as we know it today is essentially the idea of Robert Clarke, but to call the tin whistle an English instrument would be as absurd as calling the Saxophone a Belgian one. The key to this lies not in the hardware, rather in the cultural software that gives musical instruments their meaning and identity. When one thinks of tin whistles, one immediately thinks of traditional Irish music, the jigs, reels & airs to which the whistle is naturally suited; just as when one thinks of Saxophones, one thinks of African-American jazz - the playing of John Coltrane, John Gilmore, Rahsaan Roland Kirk et al, whose work would be inconceivable without the ingenuity of the inventive Belgian, just as their work would have been inconceivable to him! In other words - Adolphe Sax came up with the hardware, but it took the genius of the African-American musicians to give it its musical voice, without which I dare say the saxophone would be as obscure as the rest of his innumerable musical hybrids and inventions.

Your nice multi-cultural world doesn't consist of isolated cells festering away in their indigenous ethnically pure in-bred idylls, rather a seething mass of collective interactivity, diversely manifesting & cross-pollinating across the planet as human history, both cultural and political, collective and individual, takes its wondrous course.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 08:03 AM

What that website says is VERY different from

""And the penny whistle evolved, in England, from the English flageolette""

That is only YOUR conclusion as to its meaning WAV.


http://www.thewhistleshop.com/catalog/whistles/inexpensive/Clarke/blackclarke/clarke.htm
"was a talented amateur musician and played a wooden whistle. He developed the idea of copying his whistle but used tinplate to do so. He made the block in the mouthpiece out of wood "

Your link says
" Early in the 19th century, English-made whistles started to appear with the six finger hole arrangement that we see today (also some with the traditional thumb hole and keys). In 1843, Robert Clarke of England made the first "Tinwhistle", borrowing the design from a wooden whistle that he owned. "

Now you may well believe that means that 'the tin whistle was an English invention'...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 07:45 AM

I thought it was my fellow goatee from your earlier post, IB. I found the site where I'd read about the whistle, whilst looking for an instrument 3 years ago - here (without "twisting the facts").

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 07:40 AM

"And the penny whistle evolved, in England, from the English flageolette"

And there WAV goes again... ever heard of 'The Boy Who Cried Wolf'? It ended up that nobody believed him.

Look, I'm not making this up, you know.

There are far too many widely educated people here - in almost ANY field of knowledge (since many people aprat form professional musos also have music as a hobby, while earning their pay from Street Sweepers to Rocket Scientists) to tolerate people like WAV from just 'making it up as they go along'.

You are rapidly digging yourself into a hole of ridicule and no respect, mate!

Truly, it is better to keep one's mouth closed and be thought a Fool, that to open it and remove all doubt!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 07:26 AM

And the penny whistle evolved, in England, from the English flageolette

The key to this one is in the name, WAV, which Generation (still?) use, somewhat confusingly, for their whistles. In any case the penny whistle most certainly did not evolve from the Flageolette, which is an 18th (?) century contrivance albeit of a similar lineage to the internationally ubiquitous whistle flute of which the British penny / tin whistle is but one manifestation. I have an early 20th century German example (in E!) of a tin whistle made in the traditional manner still used by Clarkes. Once again, WAV, you're twisting the facts to fit your tiresome nationalistic theory, thus casting your academic credentials into further shadow. There are English Jew's Harps too, very distinct in their rather robust construction, albeit dating from the 19th century, and quite possibly known as Trumps; just as in Italy they're known as Scacciapensieri, in Germany Maultrommel etc. etc. In any case, the penny whistle, like the Jew's Harp, is no respector of national boundaries.   

And as for the English Tittyfuck, Catspaw, in England it's commonly known as Spanish Sex (hence WAV's where does the rain in Spain tend to fall? presumably), or, as famously immortalised by Glen Miller, String of Pearls. In Tyneside I've heard it referred to as a Longbenton Tit-wank.

Insane Beard, aka Sedayne.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 07:25 AM

French flute

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 06:59 AM

What color is an orange? How long do you cook a 3 minute egg?

Or did you mean it doesn't rain in Spain since rain is purely and traditionally English?

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 06:52 AM

Frankly, Spaw, I'd heard of the "French horn" but not the "French flute" you mention; and I don't pardon your French...where does the rain in Spain tend to fall?...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 06:43 AM

"To Foolestroupe: many in classical music still refer to the recorder as the English flute, and the transverse flute as the German flute (even though we will never know the "who?" or "where?" of their invention). And the penny whistle evolved, in England, from the English flageolette."

Complete bullshit. The last time those terms were in any popular use Cornwallis was going belly up at Yorktown. Not all things are English and as a matter of fact this includes you and the entire Flute family. The only nationality much used in combination with "flute" anymore is "French flute" which is another (and far less popular) way of referring to an open hole orchestral flute.

But as you seem to need to make all things English and of course better (not to mention original), perhaps you could expound upon: the English Blowjob, the English Buttfuck, the English Handjob, the English Jack-off (actually, that's you), the English Tittyfuck, etc.........................

btw......How do you do something inside a shoestring? I'd say its a typo......Or is that yet another illegal change to one of your posts?LOL

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 05:50 AM

Given all that, I doubt the word-changing will happen again, thankfully.
"There have been times when I thought that maybe WAV was deliberately doing the stuff he does here just for laughs...in which case he probably wouldn't mind people making fun of it, but lately I'm not so sure if that is the case. It gets a little hard to figure out exactly what is going on here" (Little Hawk)...I admit to attempting some humour in my Blurb
("The style is mostly direct; and the substance informative, humorous and didactic"), but, basically, I'm someone GENUINELY heavily against our status quo, who is try to do something about it, in a shoestring.
To Don, I do read everything you post, and do agree with SOME of it. But reading your last few, you seem to think I'm stupid for not agreeing with you on everything; i.e., you're not just talking down, but talking a long-way down to someone who has achieved 4 tech. certificates and a Degree in Humanities.
To Foolestroupe: many in classical music still refer to the recorder as the English flute, and the transverse flute as the German flute (even though we will never know the "who?" or "where?" of their invention). And the penny whistle evolved, in England, from the English flageolette.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Stu
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 04:26 AM

"Perhaps stigweard, Don Firth, irishenglish, Foolestroupe, and others should simply look the other way when someone is obviously drowning, and if he doesn't explicitly call for help, just let the bugger drown. Would that satisfy the peanut gallery?"

Ah, another post from some anonymous tosser hiding behind 'guest' sniping.

Well, read the threads listed again dicksplash - I've got far more respect for WAV who at least puts his name to his work than I'd ever have for some poltroon stirring the shite without committing any solid view to the discussion. Many have offered some excellent advice and offered well-meant support on the other Glastonbury thread to WAV, regardless of whether he listens or not.

As for bullying - well, that's not my intention but I will offer an opinion on work displayed for public consumption by such a shameless self-promoter as WAV. Whoever changed the word in WAV's poem is as big a pillock as you get on these boards, even the ever-present trolling gutless guests.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 09:47 PM

"It's only the really bad singers who buy into the kind of arbitrary, nonsensical ideas that you seem to cling to."

Don, you've heard of my "B-graders" theory of life? The A graders have the talent and knowledge, the B graders have only the persistence...

"they are having a great old time picking on "the dweeb""

Now I don't like Lenard Cohen as a general rule, but I do love 'Fisrt we take Manhattan, then we take New York'. I don't mind a lot of WAVs poetry. I haven't been criticising it. But when he starts on the 'ignorant B-grader crap' about technical stuff I have a passing interest in, and a lot of others have even more experience with, I have been merely trying to educate him. As he has demonstrated, he insists that he knows more than us. Listening to him perform, say his critics, reveals that he doesn't - even though he alleges that he has won 1st prizes for doing things his way.

"should simply look the other way when someone is obviously drowning, and if he doesn't explicitly call for help, just let the bugger drown. Would that satisfy the peanut gallery?"

Well this is more a case of some silly ignorant bugger standing in water up to his neck and refusing to shut up or sit down and drown...


"do you mean Irish music played on the English penny whistle"

This reveals someone who is not widely musically educated, sadly...


"breathing-type exercise I do: i.e., going through a 2-octave chromatic-scale on the tenor-recorder/English-flute, which takes about 40 seconds, on one breath."

1) Well for a start, the process of voice production/projection also involves the vocal chords. Playing a wind instrument to train vocal production is really only a sort of 'one handed voice exercise'... :-P
2) If you want to play the 'ball clanker singing games' I mentioned before, get serious and try to last at LEAST a minute... physically watch on closeup opera singers breathe while singing...
3) "tenor-recorder/English-flute" Bloody Hell! how creative!!! it's really called a 'fipple flute' as distinct from a 'flauto-traverso', and a recorder - with its origins in Europe (Purcell, Bach, Telemann and Vivaldi etc)- is no more deserving of being called an "English Flute" than any 'flauto traverso'... and a Tenor recorder (unless WAV can provide documentation to prove his claim) is no more prevalent or common than a Treble in England than anywhere else in Europe...

This also reveals someone who is not widely musically educated, sadly...

"Quavery voice, very iffy sense of pitch, no breath support, raspy quality in the voice."
"I think its more the sound of a cow with a Dachshund up its ass"
"Unless you want to be an object of pity and ridicule, for cryin' out loud, don't put your singing on the internet until you can at least sing on pitch and hold a steady, firm tone that doesn't wobble all over the place!"
"If you're going to do this, [and insist on boring/annoying your betters] you may as well learn to do it right."

Well said Don (and others).

~~~~~~~~~~~
"Catspaw would make a bullocky blush"

As as Aussie who knows a bullocky or two,

That statement is full of Bull...
~~~~~~~

"I started out, actually believing in principle, some of his notions."

So did I.

"But his posts and threads become more about self promotion of his beliefs he has written about on his website. Whenever any of us challenge him on specific points, most of the time he does not respond, or quotes ad infinitum from the same website, which is not really answering the question."

And he tries to put down any help from the experienced as only "misunderstanding his 'theories'".

"maybe WAV was deliberately doing the stuff he does here just for laughs...in which case he probably wouldn't mind people making fun of it, but lately I'm not so sure if that is the case. It gets a little hard to figure out exactly what is going on here."
"I had the impression he was just amusing himself."

But it's what he's doing with the other hand that is worrying some of us...

:-)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 07:45 PM

I changed it to "Pennine" in the first message, as requested. I can't imagine that a moderator would change it to "Penile." Could it be you made a typographical error in the first post? Could it be you made a Freudian slip?
Can't say I know anything about a "weekly allotment," either.
The previous thread was getting hit by a steady stream of Spam, so it was closed. It should have been identified as "closed due to Spam," but it wasn't. Sorry about the omission.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,What a peculiar world!
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:44 PM

Perhaps stigweard, Don Firth, irishenglish, Foolestroupe, and others should simply look the other way when someone is obviously drowning, and if he doesn't explicitly call for help, just let the bugger drown. Would that satisfy the peanut gallery?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:40 PM

So it wasn't Penile then? I thought WAV might be straying into some seriously surreal psycho-sexual imagery with that one, but you're quite right to be pissed off with this sort of tampering; shame on the perpetrators (moderators?).

Otherwise, WAV - your post of 4.45 today is priceless; good to see such vivid antipodean colloquialisms aren't being lost in your rush to repatriate.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:24 PM

If he is not interested in exchange of knowledge and information then why offer it to him?
I would take

"SHAMELESS SELF-PROMOTION."

as being somewhat tongue in cheek. But I would not take is as an invitation to critique, or to discuss one's muse. His poems are self admittedly simple and easy to understand. The simple choice on the part of the reader would be to enjoy them or not.

I see where you are all coming from and will certainly admit to having been there myself, part of the pack on the playground LH describes, throwing a barb or two of my own.

As for WAV, I am finding myself admiring his restraint and composure. I shall try to take his patience as a role model. I hope the Moderators soon see fit to correct the vandalism of his poem and that they will take measures to see that such "hacking" does not occur in future.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:20 PM

Oh? Well, perhaps. I had the impression he was just amusing himself.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:12 PM

Right from the beginning, the postings from WalkaboutsVerse and the numerous threads he has started all belong under the heading of "SHAMELESS SELF-PROMOTION." This is not a person who is interested in the interchange and exchange of knowledge and information that is one of the major hallmarks of Mudcat. He is interested only in feeding his ego and blowing his own horn.

Not that he has much to be egotistical about!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:05 PM

Jack, what is happening here is that a gang of Mudcat friends have gathered, just as in a schoolyard, and they are having a great old time picking on "the dweeb", as they have decided to treat WAV in that fashion here.

Kids love doing that, and most adults have not grown up nearly as much as they think they have...so they love doing it too.

That's what is happening on WAV's threads.

If you recognize it as a form of hazing or bullying...well, you are quite correct. It begins at a certain level on the part of a handful of people, then other people jump on the bandwagon, and it accelerates. If those people are all each other's friends, well, then they think it's "okay" to do that and they figure that the "dweeb" deserves everything he is getting. They are emboldened by each other's support.

There have been times when I thought that maybe WAV was deliberately doing the stuff he does here just for laughs...in which case he probably wouldn't mind people making fun of it, but lately I'm not so sure if that is the case. It gets a little hard to figure out exactly what is going on here.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: irishenglish
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:02 PM

JTS, look not just at this thread but the following threads-Glastonbury Folk Festival, English Cittern, English Folk Degree, English Country Dancing Please for some of the clues about why some of us question WAV. He was posting his poems for a long time on the walkaboutsverse thread, it has now been switched to this one. The switching to penile is juvenile, and should be changed however. I started out, actually believing in principle, some of his notions. But his posts and threads become more about self promotion of his beliefs he has written about on his website. Whenever any of us challenge him on specific points, most of the time he does not respond, or quotes ad infinitum from the same website, which is not really answering the question. I wrote a long response to him the other day on the Glastonbury thread. Despite all that, he sent me early birthday greetings, which I thanked him for, because see, the thing is-we might like to banter with him the same as others on here that we disagree with, if he would only answer directly, and not with a cut and paste from his website!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 06:00 PM

It does seem to me that this person's work has definitely generated a certain level of hostility, personally I see no harm to it and, at least, he has the bottle to post his work on the net. There are far worse things out there than the poetry of this person.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:59 PM

One endeavors to be helpful, Jack. That's one of the nice points about Mudcat. I have often benefitted from the knowledge of other Mudcatters, and whenever possible, I like to return the favor.

I assumed that WAV, an obvious neophyte, could benefit by some suggestions and advice. And you will note that I am not the only one who offered such.

But obviously, the effort is fruitless. And unappreciated.

Don Firth (with better things to do with my time)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:49 PM

Lord Batman, I think he is saying that some one substituted "Penile" for "pennile" on his post without his permission. It was I that attributed the motive of mockery. I could be wrong, perhaps it was spellcheckery and different dictionaries were used.

In answer to Don Firth's post. Did wav ask for the the spew of "knowledge" and mockery that I see on your post and on this thread?

the work identified as "Poem 136 of 230: LANCASHIRE SUNG SIMPLY" seems to be a simple little word picture of lancashire. I frankly do not understand the hostility that posting it has generated. If he were to post all 230 of the poems here would anyone be harmed? At the very least the venom and mockery would, presumably be vented more quickly.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:35 PM

Is the person saying that someone has deliberately and with malice aforethought hacked into this website and changed the wording of his posts and the spelling of his words?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Gene Burton
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:34 PM

"...straightforward and to the point"

Oh, come on. "Mamalucca"; "Jadrool"; "Gezeez"? None of these are even words. There may be an internal coherence there; but if so I'd say he's pretty backed up. Is he entirely well?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:30 PM

". . . my traditional one-breath-per-line phrasing."

That's just bloody ridiculous, WAV. That's like saying that the structure (line length, meter, and rhyme-scheme) of a poem have more importance than its meaning, in which lies its story (if there is one) and its imagery. And meaning and imagery are conveyed, not by following some arbitrary notion such as "one breath per line," it is conveyed by phrasing. And traditional singers do not limit themselves to that "one breath per line" nonsense. Where in blazes did you get that notion? Certainly not by listening with your brain engaged.

No matter how long or short the lines of a poem / song may be, phrase according to what the words mean. I have heard hundreds if not thousands of singers of all kinds and genres—including vast numbers of traditional singers—and that is what those who are anywhere from halfway decent to truly excellent do. It's only the really bad singers who buy into the kind of arbitrary, nonsensical ideas that you seem to cling to.

I must know something about it, WAV, because I've made a living singing in concerts, clubs, coffeehouses, and on television since the late 1950s, I worked for eight years as an on-the-air broadcaster, and recently I have appeared at, and participated in, a series of poetry readings by a real poet, Jana Harris, who has several collections of poems published and a DVD (and possible television show) of the poetry readings in the works. I have also recorded—at his request—several poems by Richard Patrick Gibbons (who wrote Sully's Pail—recorded by Tom Paxton—and a number of other songs) for a CD of his poems that he is preparing for release and soon to be put on a web-site which is currently under construction.

Several people here, who have a vast fund of knowledge, have tried to be helpful to you in your stumbling, bumbling efforts, WAV, but you seem to be oblivious and keep right on with the same brainless braying. I'm beginning to think you are beyond help.

You can lead an ass to knowledge, but you can't make him think!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:21 PM

Thanks for the concern and support, Gene and Jack: I have only done level 1, and a bit of level 2, in computers, so I've no idea how - but, yes, someone has definitely hacked-in and changed my spelling, e.g., on the first peom, which I copy/pasted from my site, where the spelling is "Pennine" NOT "Penile". The moderators can, and have, corrected suchlike before for me, and may do so again when they notice these last few posts.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:20 PM

Personally I don't see anything wrong with Catspaw's English, it's straightforward and to the point, no messing about.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Gene Burton
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:13 PM

Philip Larkin for one- if language was an instrument, Larkin would be a virtuoso.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Gene Burton
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:07 PM

"May I ask what is so offensive about his poetry?"

Actually, I've been wondering about that myself. Some of it's actually pretty good. I've certainly read a damn sight worse. You'd have hoped most reasonable people would be capable of judging art in islation from the views of its creator- after all some of the greatest poets of the English language had reactionary views.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 04:58 PM

Am I to understand that someone with editing capability here changed this man's poem, with the intent of mocking him, and though he has asked to have it changed back, no one has?

Am I also to understand that anyone can mock him in verse but that he is only allowed to post one verse a week?

May I ask what is so offensive about his poetry?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 04:45 PM

...Catspaw would make a bullocky blush.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Gene Burton
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 04:35 PM

Catspaw, you really do the English language quite an injustice. I mean, really, what's it ever done to you?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Stu
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 11:26 AM

Thanks for the link Spaw.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 10:47 AM

I'm no monarchist, Catspaw, nor knob-polisher - and where's your kittie litter?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 10:32 AM

Hey Stiggie........THIS THREAD (AND THE OTHERS LINKED AT ITS TOP) has a lot of free info and that's been a part of the "Mudcat Tradition" from the beginning!(:<))

Enjoy! I'm sure none of it will affect Walksaboutactinglikeadipshit but he can go polish Prince Charlie's knob.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Stu
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 10:16 AM

"simplistic but superlative"

That's open to interpretation.

I don't think I've ever seen such good advice freely given on this site - I'll be copying and pasting some of this myself.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 10:11 AM

"(Irish) whistle" (Foolestroupe)...do you mean Irish music played on the English penny whistle?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 09:56 AM

"I said above, Foolestroupe, that I have heard, e.g., some source singers, who, at least mostly, do, indeed, also, take one breath per line; and I've heard poetry recited, well, the same way."

Yep, so have all of us, and like the whistle player I mentioned (ANY ONE has tried to ever teach music can attest to similar behaviour among keen 'know-all' students!) it must be remembered that NOT ALL TRADITIONS ARE TO BE ENCOURAGED...

SOME POETRY RUNS OVER LINE ENDS...

Caesar entered: on his head,
his helmet; on his arm,
his sheild; in his hand,
his trusty sword; walking swiftly.

The way Shakespeare wrote it...

is NOT the same as

Caesar entered on his head
his helmet on his arm
his shield in his hand
his trusty sword walking swiftly.

....

:-)


"To the ignorant fool, all is bliss"
© THE AUTHOR