BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 09:58 AM

Despite his perfect English (better than mine) Wolfgang is German.
He may not be following this thread as its stated purpose was for folks to lobby their MPs
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 24 Jul 05 - 07:22 AM

... Here you go, Wolf tracks ...

Let's see how inclusive you are

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 09:15 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 02:17 PM

.... But its still all one way

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 02:13 PM

Refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 06:13 PM

no, youre a bloody fool

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 06:09 PM

I'm not superstitious!

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 06:02 PM

Keith, she's 13
i wouldn't go there if i were you

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 05:54 PM

Skirt and blouse then?
Surely not a twin set!

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 05:32 PM

Are you starting to realise how much open to suggestion you are, Keith?

And I don't even write for the Express...

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 05:30 PM

Well... obscene is as obscene does, in my opinion, Keith.

And I can think of nothing more obscene than the establishment and justice system that you hold so dear to your heart.

What makes you think I'm female, by the way?

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 05:07 PM

Are you wearing a dress?
It's OK
We are all friends here.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:48 PM

he's trying to chat you up Tir

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:46 PM

Either that was the
start of a bad haiku, or
just a bad haiku

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:33 PM

You don't meet many girls do you.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:31 PM

keep to the subject, keith

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:24 PM

This one's for A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD

200!

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:24 PM

John Major.

... at the time of the DSD

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 04:21 PM

Er, who lives in Downing Street?

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 03:57 PM

he's sexist

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 03:30 PM

You are talking about the Good Friday Agreement I take it, Keith... born of the Downing Street Declaration...?

Conceived by Gerry Adams and John Hume?

For which Hume and Trimble got the Nobel Peace Prize?

What are you rabbitting on about?

"It would be highly unusual for a girl to use such obscene language as you use on this forum."

Complete and utter bollocks, Keith.

You don't even judge a book by its cover....

You're not really doing too well on this one, Keith, are you?

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 03:21 PM

What kind of nonsence?
Blair invested huge political capital in the agreement.
The agreement was not signed by the negotiating parties, a vote was taken and carried. Sinn Fein abstained.

It would be highly unusual for a girl to use such obscene language as you use on this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 03:15 PM

"Blair was its chief architect.
(And why did Sinn Fein not vote for it?)"

What kind of nonesense is that, Keith?

I'll tell you something about the Nationalist media.
It's not as 'defensive' as the Unionist media.

Reason being?

We don't have as much to hide

Now, you can take that with your customary pinch of washed and sun-dried Mediterranean sea salt if you wish, but it doesn't change the truth one iota.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 02:52 PM

You were 'SERIOUSLY rebuked' by me for not being discerning enough when you read between lines.

"I wonder how he knows what goes on outside his own neighbourhood"

Very good, Keith.

What makes you think I'm male?

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 12:38 PM

Unionists may well be against the GF agreement.
Why would the British Government be against it?
Blair was its chief architect.
(And why did Sinn Fein not vote for it?)
Is the Nationalist media scrupulously balanced, or do they sometimes play up Unionist wrong doings.

I was SERIOUSLY rebuked by Tir Eoghain for obtaining news through the media.
I wonder how he knows what goes on outside his own neighbourhood.
Perhaps he doesn't. He never writes about anything else.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Jimmy C
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 11:39 AM

No unionist politician will ever take a stand against loyalists paramilitaries, if he/she ever did such a thing they can kiss their voter base goodbye. There is a structered process to publicize as much bad press against republicans as possible and to keep harping on anything that fits their anti-good Friday agreement agenda.

There is definitely a concentrated effort to whitewash any wrongs conmmitted by loyalists, this is obvious this past few weeks - so what else is new? -- it has been like that for decades.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 02:34 AM

Loyalists have been using thier weapons albiet on each other in the last number of weeks, killing two people and injuring others, almost everyday there is a Loyalist shooting incident, are there calls for Loyalist decommisioning by any of the polititions who are obbsessed with Republican guns which are silent, I think not! Decommisioning is a ruse, it's another hurdle placed in the way of the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement, surely the silence of guns is the most important achievment that way, lives are saved and some sense of normality can be retained.I listened yeaterday to Peter Robinson of the DUP waffle on at prime minsters question time about SF not condemming the rioting by nationalist youths, he barely touched on the fact that a young man was murdered by Loyalists in his own constituancy, a few hundred yards from his offices, if decommisioning was so important to him and his party, would he not be screaming the house down to take the guns that murdered that young man off the streets, instead he consentrates his energys on nationalists throwing stones! Time will tell if the decommisioning issue will be resolved, but if it ever is I am quite positive another hurdle will be thrown in the way of progress by Unionist/British securocrats/polititions to once again thwart peace on Irelands shores once and for all.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: ard mhacha
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 02:02 PM

Given the degree of complicity that Britain has in the activities of loyalist paramilitary groups, is is no wonder that there appears to be a minimal level of concern in the PSNI,the Northern Ireland Office or London when loyalists begin to kill each other in sporadic feuding.

It is logistically convenient for the British that people who have been active participants in a prolonged process of collusion should be wiped out.
Dead men tell no tales.

Future historians may be able to trace how the majority of those who carried out so-called deniable operations on the urging of securocrats have simply been rubbed out, some even dying while held at her Majesty`s pleasure.

That is also why it is very difficult for anybody with an ounce of logic in their heads to accept or understand the basis of the current propaganda and public relations campaign directed against parts of the republican community by those same securocrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 11:40 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 11:28 AM

Sorry you feel like that.
Good luck with your campaign anyway.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 11:26 AM

Didn't think that "Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW" was a Republican slogan, Keith.

This thread will dry up when Loyalist weapons get the same amount of media attention as ALL the rest do.

Then will this thread become irrelevant.

It's just a couple of days chat to you, Keith.
It's a fucking reality for us.
I will not ask you to keep that in mind, because you don't probably give a shit, anyway
(... your browser getting all of this?)

As for you being 'duped'... for God's sake, Keith you couldn't be duped into a discussion about Loyalist weapons, never mind furthering the Republican Cause.

No!
You had a blue hippopotamus in the corner of your sitting room, and you were trying to get us to prove that you didn't see it.

You take Piaget to new levels altogether

I'm not impressed

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 09:06 AM

It had dried up long before 3rd July. Count the number of unsuccessful attempts to refresh it.

Since then, this sub thread that you hate has generated 61 posts, and only 14 are mine.

But you should be happy. This thread achieved positive results. MPs lobbied by post and the profile of your grievance raised. That is unique for a BS thread.
Then, after it reached it's natural conclusion, this debate kept a Republican slogan on the Main Forum page of Mudcat for a couple more weeks.
And I was duped into helping you do it.
Nice work!

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 06:25 PM

"You have your own opinion I understand"

Ahhhhh, so what is it that you have been expressing, then?

We know the craic a bit more over here, Keith.

You people, on the other hand get it served up to you along with your boiled egg and toast in the morning, and you never question any of it

It'¨s nice when its all put into little boxes and wrapped up for you, isn't it.

Saves you from thinking

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 06:12 PM

... and this thread will not dry up, Keith.

It'll be brought back up so as people can be reminded.
Don't worry about that.

This subject will not go away

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 06:10 PM

The original discussion 'dried up' because you insisted on diverting the subject of the discussion: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW

You were replying to something you only thought was implied.

I don't have to remember, Keith. I can read

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 06:00 PM

You haveyour own opinion I understand, but as for taking up the thread;
1 The original discussion had dried up.
2 I was only replyng to others, initially Brendy (3rdJuly, remember?)

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 05:55 PM

... and you've just taken up most of the thread tripping out about it

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 05:47 PM

Well you're wrong, Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jul 05 - 10:07 AM

I agree with virtually everything in those last posts from Brendy and Victor.
Justice for all victims.

I think that those defiant sisters were the reason the McCartney bandwagon got started though.

Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Brendy
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 07:32 PM

Keith, you are a classic example of someone with absolutely no lateral thought whatsoever.

After arguing the toss as to what I meant by the comment I made, introducing that link, I can tell you that more than any 'bandwagon' or somesuch, (because I think that any violent death; especially among the working class, should be a cause for outcry), its the unevenness of it all that I object to.

I was asking a rhetorical question, incidentally Keith. Every year various people get invited to the White House on St Patrick's day, for numerous reasons; Unionist politicians included.
Generally speaking, it's a big PR affair.

.. for the President of the US, that is.

Now I'm all for big PR affairs...., as long as everyone gets a fair shot at it. I know full well there will never be a chance of the family of that other guy getting to the White House, Keith.
Not for any reason.
(Why didn't I say 'The Late Late Show', instead?)

The Progressive Unionist Party notwithstanding their incredible promises of tax breaks, better hospitals, balh blah, were they to get in the driving seat, are spending most of their time these days fighting the International Monitoring Commission which '... recommends actions of political vetting against PUP members and those in society that are merely 'suspected' of having links with the PUP, or paramilitaries.'

Now there is a party with a few skeletons (some fairly live ones at that) in it's cupboard.
And basement.
And attic.

Sinn Féin, (who have gone through most of that process by their own volition) coverups will either be proven or disproven, and all along they have asked for openness. You can tell me that intimidation may be rife, and I could ask you to prove that too.

You have regurgitated the contents of several newspapers, and a few satellite TV news channels in your last number of posts, Keith, and you've just about managed to contradict yourself on a few occasions, to boot

There is one thing you must remember here, and that is the 'wider picture'

You don't see that with a pin-hole camera, unfortunately.

Get out of that mindset you are in, Keith, and embrace the injustice served (and that still is being served) upon the Nationalist population of the North of Ireland.

Tiocfaidh said that there are only 5 million of us.
I have always been of the opinion that sectarianism divides the working classes, and the sooner we get rid of all this irrelevant stuff like hating somone solely on the basis of their religion, the better off we'll all be.

We can't get rid of that kind of reasoning til we find something else in common.
And we can't find that commonness until there is equality.

There is no equality, Keith.
In any of it....

You don't seem to understand.

B.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: victor1
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 05:03 PM

On that Keith allow me to point out the cover up by the PUP in respect of the murders by thier military wing the UVF,Jameson Lockhart and Craig McCausland in particular mr McCausland a 19yr old and by all accounts totally innocent man both of whom have had little or no publicity nor calls for justice, justice for all is what I'm saying rather than chosen Justice for political gain, many many innocent lives have been lost in the conflict in Ireland and Britain but the calls for justice have been few and far between, Robert McCartneys murder was wrong and deserves justice regardless of Sinn Feins approach on the matter but that should apply to all those murdered, be it by Loyalists, British army, RUC, IRA, or state sponsered killers JUSTICE for one JUSTICE for all!

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 04:39 PM

I am not surprised Victor.
Killing is all too common.
In the mcCartney case, it was the cover up by Sinn fein that made it so different.
I tried to say that earlier in the thread.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: victor1
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 04:19 PM

Thanks Keith,

May I pass comment on the McCartney case, of all the people who were at the scene of the crime against Robert McCartney besides those involved in his murder, the person with the most knowledge of the events was the very person Robert was trying to protect his friend Brendy and on that particular note your comments above are most appropriate "What ever you say say nothing" given that his friend died protecting HIM one would have thought the very least he could do is speak out, he though has been strangely quiet and may be hiding more than he's prepared to reveal about the events of that awful night. By the way there have been 3 young Protestant men murdered by those from thier own community since Robert McCartneys death one of those a few hundred yards from the home of Robert but little or nothing has been said about justice for thier bereaved loved ones, not by the polititions nor the McCartney sisters nor the Irish,British,European or American governments all of whom(with the exception of his sisters of course) jumped on the Murder of Robert McCartney for political gain rather than Jusice for Robert.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 02:44 PM

Yes I will give over, unless someone again makes a post I can't agree with, like Brendy did.

Why can we not comment till after the trial though?
Because some of you dare not discuss the cover up before the trial?
"What ever you say, say nothing" ?

And of course, it may not all come out at the trial. It would be a recklessly brave witness who testified.


Welcome Victor.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 12:47 PM

"Dave T G you old cynic, the amazing thing about the mcCartney sisters is that they had no political connections outside the Nationalist movement. They achieved what they did alone.

That has to be the most un-informed statement of this century, Keith.

Nobody wants the McCartney case to go away (except perhaps to another thread...)

Remember that the case is still being investigated, and if there has been any covering-up, I'm sure it will be sorted out when the trial begins.

It'll be time enough for everyone to comment then, Keith

Lots of events are intertwined in our everyday, and hypocrisies are self-evident. You are the one who really brought the subject up here.... probably to avoid addressing the relevant points of this thread

Will you give over about McCartney, now?

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,victor
Date: 18 Jul 05 - 12:01 PM

Agree totally with the sentiment of this thread, unfortunately my mp is a Loyalist from the DUP as such I don't think he would take much notice of my e-mail, though I will send it anyway :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 05 - 12:53 PM

I was wrong, not just Tam but Dave O did also mention McCartney on 26th May. No one picked it up, the thread died, and nine days later Brendy mentioned it again and I replied.
So Guest and others I really am not the one that brings it up except by replying to others.

Brendy did not just mention the White House, but a murder victim's family being invited there. Who else but McCartney?

Dave T G you old cynic, the amazing thing about the mcCartney sisters is that they had no political connections outside the Nationalist movement. They achieved what they did alone.

Man dies in pub brawl, no story.
Victim's family and local Nationalist people accuse party officials and candidates of colluding to cover up murder and intimidate witnesses, and all in the run up to an election, that would make headlines anywhere in the world.

No wonder some of you wish it would go away.

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Tír Eoghain
Date: 17 Jul 05 - 06:54 AM

"It's got to be a case of Unionist and Loyalist politicians standing up and being proactive about what is emanating from their community...."

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: GUEST,Midnight toker
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 05:20 PM

I'll tell you this for nothin. I would prefer to buy my weekly 20 spot off a Proddy gang, than any of your Yardies or Nigerians.

Better the devil you know, in my opinion

Maybe next can we talk about where all the heroin is in NI, who pushes it, and who refuses to even discuss the idea of pushing it.

Ethics in drug dealing?

Where else would you get it?

Subject: RE: BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jul 05 - 04:34 PM

I refer back to the answer I got from the NI office.

"We cannot force paramilitary organisations to decommission - but it is vital if Northern Ireland is to have a peaceful future that the decommissioning is completed and there is a cessation of all paramilitary activity thus stemming the rise of mafia-like culture that threatens to replace it.

The decommissioning of paramilitary weapons is only one element - although a vital one - in the process of taking violence out of politics in Northern Ireland permanently"

Am I the only Englishman (Polish/Russian/Welsh/English if truth be known!) that can see that the McCartney case has been deliberately forced into the news by someone (I am not even going to attempt to say who) who wished to see the Republican politicians disgraced by this?

OK - I will happily admit that

IT WAS NOT THE KILLING BUT THE COVER UP THAT MADE MCCARTNEY'S CASE DIFFERENT.

but does this not show the whole fracas up for what it is? It was simply an example of "the Mafia-like culture" that is threatening to replace sectarian violence. This realy does smack of the ones-I-would-not-name-earler (Sorry caught up in Harry Potter at the moment) clutching at straws to try and prove that the IRA have not de-commisioned? To try and justify the fact that they have not?

Call me an old cynic but...

Sorry. Can't think of the but. Just call me an old cynic.

Cheers

DtG