BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 23 - 05:47 AM

Bloody painful listen on the Today programme this morning. Mishal Husain had the spluttering, stuttering, clunky, meandering, hesitant Starmer on the back foot all the way through the interview. Hopeless. Worrying.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 08 Dec 23 - 10:13 AM

How dare Braverman suggest that I am a racist bigot like her BNP/UKIP/EDL/NF/Britain First or other group of neo-nazi s**m chum she needs to court to win their votes by claiing she is nly speaking on behalf of the 'people of Britain'

I demand a personal apology from Nick Robinson for failing to apoligise on line for Braverman's suggestion that as a British National I am racist filth by association.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 08 Dec 23 - 09:48 AM

> Cruella played it well with Nick Robinson this morning even
> with his going for her jugular

Of Livia, Caesar Augustus's missus: "I heard a snake bit her, and died."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Dec 23 - 09:52 AM

Every answer was the same too. That part of the press conference was highly-orchestrated. The whole thing reeked of a last-ditch, desperate appeal to his own party, especially those on the right.

Labour are supposedly going to vote against the bill. I'm not aware that Starmer has yet had the courage to say that he'd ditch the whole Rwanda farce. I think he should grow some cojones and say that he will, and tell us what he'd do instead. He can't keep letting the Tories say that "Labour hasn't even got a plan" at every turn.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Dec 23 - 07:17 AM

It is worth noting that every question from the media was basically the same, though. They are aware this press statement is not going to actually make things easier for Sunak.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Dec 23 - 06:41 AM

Nice dog-whistle news conference from Sunak. Come on you hard-right. Get on board. Let's keep the merry-go-round a-spinning even though I said it won't. Can't you see I'm a desperate man with Cruella snapping at my heels?

By the way, is there a person in the house who can run the country...?

Cruella played it well with Nick Robinson this morning even with his going for her jugular (rather him than me). She kept her cool very nicely whilst saying nothing. We all know what she's up to!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Dec 23 - 04:13 AM

The resignation of Jennick has set the proverbial cat amongst the pigeons. On "Newsnight" it was speculated that Sunak might make the vote on the new bill a vote of confidence to try to force it through.

On my reading, that would be a tactical error. The right wing are convinced the Conservatives will lose the next election anyway, so their thoughts are not on the party winning the house, but themselves holding their own seat. And they judge the mood of the public is for stronger action on this bill, so they see their best hope lies with voting against it, whether Sunak makes it a confidence vote or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Dec 23 - 01:24 PM

I see Bozo is blaming the WhatsApp app for losing all the messages from the early part of the pandemic. This enquiry is one of the best bits of comic fantasy I have come across in a long time!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 12:47 PM

The 80/20 rule is more properly: The first 90% of the work takes 90% of the available time. The last 10% also takes 90% of the available time.

Meanwhile, back at the point:

> It happened because Starmer is listening to focus groups of
> swing voters.

That was Tone the Clone's single point of failure, which is more properly called following from the front*. We're stuffed.

* I'm sure I've mentioned this before: it's what our cat does when he thinks there's food in it for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 12:43 PM

Probably not extreme enought nowadays Nigel!

What percentage of wealth is owned by what percentage of people?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 09:21 AM

Seems you corrected while I was typing.
The new version requires the boss to be on a multiplier of 1,000 of his average workers pay. That still seems a little extreme to use as an example.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 09:17 AM

Nigel. If 999 people earn 100 per week and 1 person earns 1000 a week, the average pay for that 1000 is 199.90 a week.

999*£100 = 99,900
+1,000 = 100,900
/1000 (total people) = 100.90 per week average

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 09:02 AM

Sorry Nigel. My apologies for poor arithmetic! No excuse but I do have a man here turning the power on and off and I was distracted! If 999 earn 100 and 1 earn 100000 it should have been of course. Mea Culpa

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 08:49 AM

Nigel. If 999 people earn 100 per week and 1 person earns 1000 a week, the average pay for that 1000 is 199.90 a week. If the 999 ask for a pay increase, we are told that nearly 200 a week is plenty and the workers are holding the country to ransom.

Ok, simplistic but that is how it seems to work nowadays :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 06:51 AM

"Holding the country to ransom" always makes me laugh. You could level that ridiculous accusation against any body of workers who are fighting for higher pay and better conditions, but, oddly, Tories never level the same accusation against non-doms and other ultra-wealthy people who threaten to take their money elsewhere at the mere hint that their taxes might have to go up.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 06:46 AM

Raggy: Did this scenario also apply to the "Captains of Industry" and the Banking and Financial bureaucrats who received massive pay rises and continue to do so.

I am also against the 'captains of industry' (and bankers) being paid extreme multiples of what the basic worker gets, and believe it has got out of hand.
However, the massive pay rises for the very few do not greatly affect the average (or median) wage, and so are not effecting inflation in the same way.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 06:30 AM

Well, they deserved it Raggy. Dangerous job on the trading floor and screwing people over...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 05:31 AM

"Massive pay rises for the miners would mean higher inflation, and misery for those who couldn't get equivalent rises (and if they could, further fueling inflation)."

Did this scenario also apply to the "Captains of Industry" and the Banking and Financial bureaucrats who received massive pay rises and continue to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 23 - 03:22 AM

We shall never know what would have really happened without Thatcherism though will we, Nigel. We do know that with it whole communities were decimated, workers rights were destroyed and the gap between rich and poor started to skyrocket. Funnily enough, I agree that the NUM had become too powerful for it's own good. What I disagree with is that it was a simple binary choice between destroying them or damaging the economy. There could have been a compromise but, as in your 'other option', we will never know!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 09:18 PM

Dave the Gnome: It is her legacy of "get what you want and fuck everyone else" that did most damage. In my opinion. We are still suffering from it now.
I suppose the other option was to give in to Arthur Scargill and the mine workers (Who thought they could hold the country to ransom because without coal we weren't sufficient in energy, and the steel mills couldn't run.)
Massive pay rises for the miners would mean higher inflation, and misery for those who couldn't get equivalent rises (and if they could, further fueling inflation).
Good job Maggie made her preparations, and chose her battleground.

And unlike those claiming never to have voted Tory, I have voted Labour at a General Election (but only the once).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 08:01 PM

Good piece in the Guardian pointing out that praising Thatcher was a mistake and providing the arguments for that. A word to the wise, Keir Starmer: whoever advised you to praise Thatcher got it wrong
[John McTernan, who was Tony Blair's political secretary]

If Starmer thinks he's appealing to "swing voters," he's deluded because there are hardly any. What he will do by sucking up to Thatcher's ghost is disillusion the people who are already lined up to vote for him, many without much enthusiasm. People like me, who are already preparing to hold their noses. I won't be changing my mind, but there are millions in this country who were shat on, or their families were, by the despicable Thatcher regime. Clumsy move.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 04:55 PM

How many agree with me! Well I don't know, and neither do you, to answer your cod-rhetorical question. Be honest, you say. Well without making it personal I'd definitely say that, in general, lefties are far more honest and principled than right-wingers, who generally tend to be rather self-serving and me-first. Maybe lefties are not the best tacticians. But if you adopt tactics to win an election, instead of just showing the best of yourself and being honest with the electorate, you might just be having to ditch a principle or two. Maybe that's OK, who knows. Do you suppose that Peter Mandelson or Alastair Campbell always told Blair to tell the unvarnished truth?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 02:53 PM

”How many (of the handful who post to this thread) have any idea of what the vast population want?”

I’m guessing none of us can honestly claim that knowledge, RD. But we all probably have a reasonable idea of what we, as individuals, want and I’d suggest that most (though not necessarily all) of us aren’t very different to the majority of the population.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 02:49 PM

Can’t disagree with any of that, Dave. As I said, an arsehole in every other respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 02:25 PM

It is her legacy of "get what you want and fuck everyone else" that did most damage. In my opinion. We are still suffering from it now. Most people are not selfish by nature but Thatcherism made a virtue of grabbing all you can get and turned caring for others into weakness. The rise of populism is the appeal to the selfish.

Well, it's my theory. Probably bollocks but I still like to share anyway :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 02:13 PM

I have the feeling that I am one of the youngest who posts to this thread.

How many (of the handful who post to this thread) have any idea of what the vast population want?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 02:00 PM

…Ooops, hit the ‘Go’ button too soon.

Like you, RD, I’ve never voted Tory, I voted ‘Remain’.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 01:54 PM

”I am 65. Is there anyone younger than me posting to this thread?”

Not Guilty, m’lud. 76 at the last count.

I’ve long thought that her election success in the 1979 GE was probably the first time we saw the result of a ‘Personality-Politics’-driven campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 01:46 PM

And people voted for her.

Nowadays the worrying thing is that fewer people turn out to vote.

I am 65. Is there anyone younger than me posting to this thread?

I doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 01:36 PM

Thatcher had some personal qualities that, if possessed in equal measure by others of a different political stripe, would be regarded by her detractors as desirable and laudable - she was determined, had the courage of her convictions, knew where she wanted the country to go politically, and had a plan to get it there.

In every other respect, she was a complete, absolute, and utter arsehole.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 01:19 PM

"By the way, isn't it amusing that right-wingers always assume that we lefties have "an agenda"

By the way, isn't it amusing that some of tbe older left wingers always presume that younger (not much younger) have "an agenda"

I have never been a member of any political party, just like the vast majority of the UK population.

You spout your cause. Be honest, how many of the population agree with you? Most people just want to improve their personal circumstances. They have little interest in party politics.

Again, I have never voted Tory. I voted remain.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 12:57 PM

My not mentioning Attlee has nothing to do with any "agenda" you might be ascribing to me (by the way, isn't it amusing that right-wingers always assume that we lefties have "an agenda"! We're reds and what more do you need, eh!) Attlee did a great job for the country after the war but his administration ran out of steam and let the Tories back in after six short years. Starmer will be PM only because the Tories are losers, and my money is on him surviving for far less time than Clem.

Incidentally, Thatcher was a great admirer of Attlee. What a shame that the three of them aren't contemporaries. What a love-in that might have been!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 11:28 AM

He is also fond of Attlee. Perhqps that does not suit your agenda.

I agree that his fondness tor Thatcher will not go down well with all the older voters.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 11:14 AM

I never refuse cookies and I still couldn't read it. Anyway, as John Has Spoken, perhaps we can get back to Starmer and Thatcher. I note that he also mentioned Blair as another of his heroes. So we'll be invading Gaza once he gets in.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 08:18 AM

Yes Dave, I saw DMcG’s post - although there are some people whose posts I choose to always ignore, there are others whose posts I always read, and DMcG is one of the latter. Another good post, of course. On the topic of emails and ‘Junk/Spam Folders’, I make a point of checking my Outlook Junk and Bin folders pretty much daily.

”Moral and relevance of the tale: IT systems are tricksy and just because things work for you does not mean it works for anyone else.”

Absolutely correct. And equally true in reverse. ;-)

BTW, although since retirement my IT skills aren’t as up-to date as they could be, I do have a career-long involvement with IT alongside my accountancy activities, beginning in 1968 aged 21, as a COBOL programmer and company analyst on IBM 1902A Mainframe, through Burroughs VRC programming, user of one of the original IBM PCs (no Hard Drive, just two floppies, Lotus 123 - oh, what fun we had!), a number of years as de facto computer dept. manager whilst officially the Management Accountant, and trainer for the company’s finance, planning, and production IT systems. So, whilst not claiming to have the expertise of some of us here, including yourself, I do believe I have a reasonable modicum of understanding of IT ‘stuff’.

And that puts the issue of Links to bed AFAIC. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 07:55 AM

Just a little more on my theory about cookies. I tried following the link on my Desktop using Firefox and can read it fine. If I use a private window, which doesn't allow any tracking, following the link in the same way doesn't allow access. I suspect that there is something in The Torygraph's coding that stops people who do not allow tracking reading their stuff.

It's the last link of their's that I shall follow!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 07:46 AM

You're welcome, John. See DMcG's comment as well.

The number of new systems I have stopped or delayed the roll out on because they cannot be used in a number of circumatances is very high indeed. Occasionaly we would have to use the old phrase 'not supported' (doesn't mean it will not work!) on this browser or that kit. The old 80/20 rule ofthen applies. If it works 80% of the time with 20% of the effort, why spend another 80% effort to get it working on the other 20% !?!

I am long retired now but still have multiple browsers on Android, Windows and Linux devices to check out if one works where another doesn't. The ones I lack are Apple devices - Simply due to cost!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 06:41 AM

”BTW - I think Steve uses an iPad (Correct me if I'm wrong). Probably with the default Safari browser. They are a law unto themselves”

That’s exactly what I use, Dave - a 2017 iPad (which I originally bought because the software for my DJI Drone wouldn’t run on my 2012-vintage iPad!) and the standard Safari browser. I find it at least as easy to use for interweb-surfing as my year-old Dell Laptop (Win 11 and either MS Edge or Firefox) and far more convenient.

Your previous post was very interesting, and I hadn’t actually considered the different behaviours between the various browsers. Thanks for the info.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 06:33 AM

DMcG quoting from the John McTernen article in The Guardian.

"That’s why Starmer shouldn’t give the Tories any quarter. A simple two-line manifesto is all he needs: “Get them out. We will fix it.”"

That made me smile. "Get them out and We will try to fix it.", might be more honest.

Meanwhile here in Kent we have one Labour MP. She won in Canterbury in 2017. The constituency had been represented by a Conservative since its creation in 1918.

From KentOnline


"Last week she was said to be under investigation and not among the Labour Party’s list of approved candidates despite being selected by the local party group, according to reports.

KentOnline has tried speaking to her about the investigations but the MP has not responded to our requests for comment.

Meanwhile, the Labour Party itself also refused to comment when approached by KentOnline regarding Ms Duffield’s selection."

I know she is not everyone's cup of tea, still it does seem a little strange.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 06:04 AM

The comments that Starmer made in praise of the blue-rinse 80s country-wrecking harridan in that awful newspaper have been all over the media in any case this weekend. Thatcher single-mindedly tried to destroy the trade unions and Starmer is single-mindedly trying to destroy the left. Similar sentiments in play, so no wonder he's in love with her ghost. As we've seen from the actions of rail workers, nurses, junior doctors, hospital consultants and teachers, she failed to kill the unions, and he's going to find the left coming back to bite him.

I'm iPad only these days, Dave. As for me and links, there's a mottled history on this forum of frivolous, time-wasting links, links to stuff 45 minutes long, links to irrelevant YouTube songs that are supposed to make some political point or other, links that don't work, links that take you to a paywall, links that only people in the linker's country can see and, worst of all, posts containing links that are unsupported by any comments from the poster. Those last ones I consider to be lazy and bad-mannered and I never look at them. If I see something interesting I'll tell you where I saw it and post a relevant clip/comment on it. If you can't handle that I feel sorry for you, and criticising me for such a tiny peccadillo whilst simultaneously having nothing to say about the topic in hand is, frankly, childish.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 05:35 AM

Very off topic, but on the IT-literacy angle. I wrote a website for a group of shanty singers I am with, which launched around three weeks ago. One of the things it can do is email a setlist to everyone taking part in gigs.

Roughly half of the recipient's systems put it in the spam folder. The other half are quite happy. I have sent it to a spam-assessment site and it is 100% clean/not spam in its opinion. My ISP asserts all the Internet configuration is correct.

It gets to me fine, which is a shame because otherwise I could investigate. I don;t have access to their machines to try to find out why they think it is spam.

Moral and relevance of the tale: IT systems are tricksy and just because things work for you does not mean it works for anyone else.

Oh, and for me, the articles being discussed are behind a paywall.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 05:21 AM

BTW - I think Steve uses an iPad (Correct me if I'm wrong). Probably with the default Safari browser. They are a law unto themselves

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 05:13 AM

The access to the Telegraph article is very client dependent. On my tablet, using Chrome, I could read it. On my desktop, using Firefox and clicking the link provided, I could read it. On my desktop using Chrome, it was blocked. On my desktop using Edge, it was blocked. It also seems to depend on whether you accept or reject cookies but I couldn't be bothered testing all the combinations.

Once you understand that not all browsers and devices act in the same way you can understand that people who can read it and people who cannot read it are not doing anything different, but their equipment is. There is no right or wrong here.

What was it you said, John? "A bit of IT-literacy is always helpful". As someone who worked in high-end IT design, support and testing I thing the phrase "A bit of IT-literacy is dangerous" would be more suitable.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 04:08 AM

I think John McTernen's article in the Guardian today makes some excellent points. Here is an extract

It happened because Starmer is listening to focus groups of swing voters. But the brutal truth is that there are no swing voters left – when support for the Tory party has fallen to 25%, there is no longer a pond to fish in. You’re convening groups of voters who are undecided whether to vote Tory, stay at home or opt for Nigel Farage and the Reform party. Sure they have views on what would make them listen to Labour – but they will never switch.

The priority for Starmer is to talk to the 45% of the voters he has won over and to reassure them that he is the change they want to see in the world of British politics.
...

That’s why Starmer shouldn’t give the Tories any quarter. A simple two-line manifesto is all he needs: “Get them out. We will fix it.”

“No complacency” is a crucial position for any political party. But the most dangerous complacency of all is to take your own voters for granted. None of the voters who are currently supporting Labour are wavering because they are worried that Starmer is insufficiently respectful of Margaret Thatcher. They want the Tories out. Labour needs to make that its rallying cry.

I am very much of the opinion that Starmer has worked very well and hard to turn round the massive gap from the 2019 election, though greatly helped by the incompetence of the government that won.

But there comes a point where he needs to be speaking to the people most likely to vote for him, not just the people in the middle. It is a glib over-simplification to say Corbyn mainly spoke to those who would vote for him anyway. Starmer hasn't made that mistake. But he is at risk of not talking to them at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 04:02 AM

Have you actually got anything at all to say about Starmer's praise for Thatcher?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Dec 23 - 02:30 AM

”two of us, Geoff and I, have both said, quite correctly, that you can't read that article unless you subscribe.”

Then you did something wrong. I repeat - I am not a subscriber, I seldom read anything the Torygraph has to say and I certainly wouldn't pay to read it, but I Googled it, found the piece, read the whole thing, and created and posted the link.

A bit of IT-literacy is always helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 23 - 08:25 PM

That last sentence brands you as an archetypal Tory, Nigel. Good for you!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Dec 23 - 07:51 PM



I never claimed to be glad of the alignment. That's just in your narrow mind.
I don't believe that Thatcher "wrecked this country's industry" but she did restrict the power of the unions to stop industry from moving forwards.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 23 - 07:05 PM

"Probably just Steve" my arse, Nigel! I should think that probably four, maybe five people (I'm not counting) here have discussed this, and two of us, Geoff and I, have both said, quite correctly, that you can't read that article unless you subscribe. I'm not at all surprised that, in your case, you're pleased that Starmer aligned himself with the woman who wrecked this country's industry (especially in Wales, Nigel!) and who engendered the culture of the spiv.

Anyway, cheers for subjecting me to the Torygraph piece. I mentioned the Broadcasting House interview earlier. Did you listen? He got far more of a drubbing from Paddy O'Connell than he got from the Telegraph, which latter must have thought that it was their birthday when he spouted his Thatcher nonsense. Do have a listen and report back if you dare.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Dec 23 - 06:46 PM

For the benefit of those who claim an inability to read the Telegraph (probably just Steve) here's the full quote:

From the Telegraph 02/12/2023

"Sir Keir Starmer heaped praise on Margaret Thatcher for effecting “meaningful change” in Britain as he launched an explicit appeal to Conservative voters to switch to Labour.

In his most audacious bid yet to woo centre-Right support, reminiscent of the New Labour years, the Labour leader accused the Tories of a “betrayal” of their promises to control migration.

In a shift from his staunch opposition to Britain’s departure from the EU before becoming leader, Sir Keir added that the Conservatives have “failed to realise the possibilities of Brexit”.

Writing for The Telegraph, he praised Thatcher for “setting loose our natural entrepreneurialism” and warned that public was again fed up with politicians “hectoring”.

His intervention is likely to fuel Tory MPs’ concerns about disillusionment among many 2019 Conservative voters with the Government’s approach to key areas such as immigration, inflation and crime.

It comes as Rishi Sunak prepares to decide how radical an approach to take with a new law to secure deportation flights to Rwanda before the next election.

A plan – a radical version of which would allow ministers to ignore the European Convention on Human Rights with regard to asylum – could be finalised within 24 hours and put to the Cabinet as soon as Tuesday."