BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: GUEST,The grand wazoo
Date: 13 May 07 - 02:16 PM

I thought it was only Catholics that pull out.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Joe_F
Date: 10 May 07 - 10:23 PM

> "Please, someone, tell me about *one* ethnic pest zone that has ever    > been healed"

> How about:
> Anglo-Saxons v Norman French
Was there much strife after Harold's defeat, or did the natives just settle down with their new upper class?
> Celts v Vikings
Same question, mutatis mutandis.
> Boers v British-descended South Africans
How well *do* they get along? That's something I've never heard about.
> Highlanders v Sassenachs
Not many highlanders left.
> Finns v Russians
Partition seems to have worked in that case. Likewise Poles v Russians.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 07 - 10:53 AM

Why oh why oh why (Do I sound like someone on points of view?) are people resurecting this thread when there is a perfectly good one on peace in Ireland?

It's almost as if people don't want to believe that the two parties have actual got together at long last. Come on you people. If Messrs Adams and McGuinness can talk to Paisley why can you lot not forget the past and look towards peace in the future?

Is it beyond the scope of anyone who wrote such things of Paisley like "can anyone possibly believe that the Paisley Party will sit and debate with Adams and co like everyday normal governments" or "If he's a Christian then I'm the sugar plum fairy. He just hates the IRA he's a bigot that all." to believe that he is trying at long last?

The biggest problem that I have seen in all the debates about the troubles is that everyone seems to have been stuck in the past. The Bastard Brits starved our people. The IRA scum murdered children in shopping centres and so forth.

We should never ever forget the past and the sacrifices that people made, but to resurect a thread that will cause old wounds to be opened at a time when all other parties are trying to heal the wounds is cynical beyond belief. Will someone please close this one and ensure that diplomats on all sides get the support they deserve. I am not a great respector of any politician but in this case I think they deserve a break.

Many thanks

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 10 May 07 - 10:28 AM

I must admit I too am sceptical about this one. Let's just hope and pray that peace will finally lay on this trouble ground.

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 10 May 07 - 07:39 AM

"Please, someone, tell me about *one* ethnic pest zone that has ever been healed"

How about:
Anglo-Saxons v Norman French
Celts v Vikings
Boers v British-descended South Africans
Highlanders v Sassenachs
Finns v Russians

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Joe_F
Date: 08 May 07 - 09:46 PM

The best of luck to them, but I have to be skeptical. Please, someone, tell me about *one* ethnic pest zone that has ever been healed. Experience seems to show that once you get two or more groups of people who have given each other, over the years, ample reason for mistrust, nothing can be done, because even if majorities on all sides would be amenable to a settlement, extremists hold the balance of power; all they have to do is set off one more bomb, and everything falls to pieces. It used to be you could pacify such people with a heavy hand, but once the lid was taken off (India, Yugoslavia), everything boiled over again. And these days, not even the U.S. Army has a heavy enough hand to pacify Iraq. Partition sometimes quiets things for a while, but eventually it leads to irredentism & war.

I have sometimes amused myself with the idea of forging & leaking a U.N. memorandum concerning a plan to use hydrogen bombs to sink Northern Ireland and the Balkan peninsula into the sea. No sane person would believe such a thing, but I think plenty of insane people would, and they are the ones who most need demoralizing.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 May 07 - 08:39 PM

"Love" will take a little longer to achieve but "peace" is still worth cherishing.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 May 07 - 02:28 PM

At long, long, last it begins to look as though peace is possible, though it will be IMHO a couple of decades before trust can be rebuilt between the segregated areas of catholic and protestant dwellings.

I suspect that two years ago none of us really believed this were possible.

Now, while we are on a roll, what can we do about Afghanistan, and Iraq?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 07 - 02:14 PM

Northern Ireland has a new power-sharing government in an historic day at Stormont.

DUP leader Ian Paisley and Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness took office as first and deputy first ministers as five years of direct rule ended.

Tony Blair and Bertie Ahern witnessed the creation of the new executive.

Mr Blair said that the day's events offered the chance for Northern Ireland to "escape the heavy chains of history" and "make history anew".

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 12:19 PM

Don,
I agree with most, but I'd rather see IP live longer (as long as he walks the present way) for a very simple reason:

This man with his hardline track record is at present an insurance against more extreme Loyalists shooting down all agreement or compromise as many of them would like to. He's needed to bring a majority of Protestants to step upon a way the Nationalists have gone first.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 11:06 AM

Paisley's attitude is exactly that of his predecessors, who were the root cause of the troubles. For the protestant, loyalist, hardliner it's about supremacy, and that will continue to get in the way of peace at least until this evil man dies.

I pray that day will soon come.

I am totally convinced of the sincerity of Sinn Fein and the Nationalists, and, rather than destroy Stormont, I would give control to them, and see Paisley having to go Cap in hand to Gerry Adams, for recognition of his party.

In my book turnabout's fair play.


Just my two penn'orth, which will doubtless be shot down in flames
Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:54 AM

Well he did pull out JimLad, but not quick enough

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:47 AM

Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams meet

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: jimlad9
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:40 AM

Its a pityy Paisleys father did not 'pull out' 80 years and 9 months ago!!.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: GUEST,GUEST FROM UK
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 10:21 PM

Paisley is nothing more than a fat blubbery waist of humanity fortunatly he is getting old, and we wont have to listen to his bigoted rants for much longer the day he is no longer in a position of power. will be a great day for Ireland.When he is no longer in the picture then the real peace can start, "HE" is the fly in the ointment, the boil on the backside , the spanner in the works he is an old fool who is part of the old order who needs to step aside for the new to come in

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: folk1e
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:21 PM

He may have been right but we have seen Paisley and Addams at the same table .......... POWER OF THE PEOPLE!

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: GUEST,USA
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 08:47 PM

Refreshed for me myself

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 06 - 04:17 AM

Where is ard mhacha, he repeated in Thread after Thread that Paisley and his Party would never agree with any of the Nationalists, he was right.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 11:42 PM

The secret weapon of London is .... hungry immigrants...

See YouTube for on the street confrontations, its already begun!

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley
From: catspaw49
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 11:39 PM

That's funny Peace! Back in the day, I had a Tie and Cumberbund by the same name as well! Do you think they were related?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley
From: Peace
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 10:43 PM

Me gran' had a shawl by that name.

Subject: BS: Paisley
From: GUEST,ron edwards
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 09:24 PM

Paisley pulled out , like his Da should have

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: GUEST,ron edwards
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 09:21 PM

Paisley pulled out like his father should have

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Shiamsa
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 08:18 PM

I always felt that the utterings of Ian Paisley since the 1960's were the greatest recruiting campaign the IRA could have wished for. Really insulting towards Catholics, and a look at his website confirms this.   But of course he was only the latest in a long line of bigoted politicians going back to the 1880's who maintained control by agitating against Catholics. The irony is, that if they had not been so uncompromisingly against Home Rule, the 1916 Rising would never have come about, and a united Ireland might have remained, after Home Rule, a relatively loyal part of the British Empire. Thus Carson died a defeated and embittered man. Paisley might follow in his footsteps.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Alison M
Date: 31 Oct 06 - 07:30 PM

If Ian Paisley Junior replaced DUP Ian Paisley, would he not have the same views? Earlier this year Ian Paisley Junior denied that Unionists had a paramilitary, but William Frazer from FAIR said Unionists do have a paramilitary called UVF. One of them is lying! By the way, hi Divis!

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 20 Oct 06 - 09:33 AM

And he calls himself a Christian, I;m a Christian and the bible says you must turn the other cheek.

If he's a Christian then I'm the sugar plum fairy.
He just hates the IRA he's a bigot that all.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 10:44 AM

Either that, or Blair's just waiting until Ian Paisly hurries up and dies. That approach almost worked with Sharon and Arafat. He may look and sound like a member of the undead, but he can't be immortal.


Can He?

ARRRRRGGGGHHHHH.....

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 19 Oct 06 - 02:59 AM

Agreed Al.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 11:31 PM

Not much chance of that DS. Its not the way Blair operates. He's at least ten times smarter than anybody else who has occupied that office in living memory. And to paraphrase Dame Edith Evans , I think you're confusing him with someone who gives a shit....

For the last forty years successive English governments have been putting an avuncular arm round Paisley's shoulder and saying, Come on Ian - be reasonable.....and he's made each and every one of them look like complete dipshits. Blair's not daft, he will keep his hands in his pockets.

Unless MI6 managed to get that picture of Paisley in bed with a choirboy....in which case some underling will be despatched with message - we have your balls in one hand and the potato peeler in the other. Blair will be leaving his smile that he keeps in a jar by the door for another photo opportunity. And he's quite sincere in that.

Unless...I think maybe we're all f---ed, yet again.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Grab
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 08:07 PM

Anti-Protestant? Hardly, when my mum's a Methodist and my gran was active C of E...

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 07:33 PM

If only Tony Blair had the balls to say to him, look Ian too much has gone into this and people want local government and deserve it. Either you and your party take your seats at the table, otherwise we are inviting all other parties to come on board and begin the task without you. I imagine within days they would have their feet under the table.

He was interviewed on local television yesterday and today and he appeared to be loving the attention. He had a smug grin on his face and more or less said, people are watching me, and what I say goes.

Today he asked for another 38 million pounds to be give to the victims groups, and got it. All this money for victims groups, I had family killed during the troubles and within a year the government had paid out compensation,as they did in most cases, so why should more money be poured in ? I am sorry for families who suffered losses, but where else in the UK is it happening ?

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 06:58 PM

Ian Paisley has a mind of any kind? Why isn't this on the news?

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 04:26 PM

On those kind of things I think you'd find Paisley was of one mind with Opus Dei.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: GUEST,ibo
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 04:20 PM

Paisley pulls out? I thought it was the catholics that didnt believe in condoms?

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Stu
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 10:01 AM

"Well Stigweard, in answer to your plea for a younger generation of politicians, I give you..........[?sound of trumpets?!]
Ian Paisley Junior
Giok"

Arrgghhh!

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 06:45 AM

Somebody needs to tell them that Derry's walls are no longer in need of defence!
G

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 06:26 AM

This is anything but an anti protestant thread. The protestant community in the North of Ireland need something sorted out over here as much as nationalists. They have their monthly bills appearing on bank statements like the rest of us.

Progress has been made, If you would have asked me twenty years ago what's the chances of the PIRA disarming and disbanding, I doubt I would even of answered you.

Let's look at the changes in twenty years. The two old parties, the S.D.L.P. (Still don't like protestants), sorry joke. And the Ulster Unionists Party were the two main parties. The swing to the D.U.P. and Sinn Fein came when things began to move, PIRA ceasefire held,prisoners released and North/South government bodies in place.


Nationalists saw it was Sinn Fein who were at the sharp end and could make progress, Unionists felt the D.U.P. were the party that could preserve the union. It was a pity the D.U.P. didn't take the loyalist paramilitaries on board, something the Ulster Unionist are currently trying to do.

Taking guns of people is the easy part, taking their will to use them isn't so easy. The D.U.P. fell out with the U.V.F. over the P.U.P. standing againist them in local elections and David Ervine reminding them of their past involvement with a number of groups with a colourful past.

Sinn Fein don't look towards republicans for their votes, they have now the middle class catholics on board at the expense of the S.D.L.P. Many are young people want bread and butter issues dealt with and the shinners are delivering.

All we hear from the D.U.P. is NO SURRENDER and ULSTER IS NOT FOR SALE. Words that echo fear more than anything else.

There has to be progress made here sooner rather than later and we must remember none of us are without sin.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Grab
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 05:53 AM

For myself, I'd rather they just put this bloody NI Assembly in place, and anyone who doesn't want to turn up to do the governing can be replaced by the guy who came second in the polls. I wish Blair and Aherne had the balls to say "Well Ian, it's your choice - you can share power alongside Adams and McGuinness, or you can refuse and give them absolute power." That'd sort the old bastard out.

Leaving it "on the long finger" really ain't an option. If you sign direct rule over to Westminster, the Catholic 50% shout and scream. If you sign direct rule over to Eire, the Protestant 50% shout and scream. The only option is to give them the power between them.

My big worry is that they don't *want* the responsibility. To their credit, whatever they've done in the past, I think Adams and McGuinness are up for it. But I'm not convinced the DUP in general have bought into it enough to back their leader(s).

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 05:45 AM

Well Stigweard, in answer to your plea for a younger generation of politicians, I give you..........[♪sound of trumpets♪!]
Ian Paisley Junior
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Stu
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 05:35 AM

"Yet another anti-protestant and blasphemous thread from mudcat"

Yet another unimaginative, witless and bigoted comment from a guest.

Doh!

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 04:56 AM

I'm not one to sympathize with big Ian, but he is in a bit of a tough spot with some of his own side. Everytime that a Unionist party leader has tried to come to some accomodation with "the other side", he's been deposed by those who were even more hard-line. Remember Terence O'Neill, Faulkner, & more recently Trimble?. The DUP thrashed the UUP at the last elections by accusing them of a "sell-out" to Sinn Feinn. This week, as soon as there was mention of a possible deal in Scotland, elements within the DUP started to raise additional conditions, and members of the UUP accused Paisley of a U-Turn.
Hopefully, there is still room for a compromise that both parties can sign up to.
However, it is clear that some powerful figures within the DUP want nothing less than a return to the good old days, when Taigs knew their place!

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 04:49 AM

Yet another anti-protestant and blasphemous thread from mudcat

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Tootler
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 04:34 AM

The one thing that can be said about Paisley is that he is consistent.

He has consistently blocked any attempts at peacemaking

He has consistently been hypocritical about violence in Northern Ireland

He has consistently refused to make any concessions whatsoever whenever any plan for a settlement in Northern Ireland has been discussed.

He has consistently been a rabble rouser and general trouble maker.

He is possibly the British Isle's most loathsome politician of the the 20th century. (though I can think of at least one other candidate for that title)

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Stu
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 04:29 AM

There are still too many of these old school scrotums still involved in the peace process on all sides, lumbering around with all the baggage they bring to the negotiating table.

Is there a new, younger breed of politicians coming through with the vision and ability to make more meaningful progress on some of these issues?

But hey - we're talking about NI polotics, not fighting, so that's hopeful in itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Oct 06 - 04:15 AM

Paisley pulls out? You wouldn't expect a man of the cloth to use a condom, would you?

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 08:49 PM

Dinosaur is too kind a word for that man. They have the benefit of being extinct...

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 08:24 PM

About time someone finally got it .... LOL.

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 06:54 PM

I myself thought it was a cock-up

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 06:43 PM

"Paisley pulls out"

One can only wish his father had done...

Subject: RE: BS: Paisley pulls out - no big surprise.
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 17 Oct 06 - 03:51 PM

Please read up about "Ulster Resistance", a supposedly 'defensive' organisation founded by Ian Paisley and Peter Robinson among others to resist 'by force if necessary a British sell-out of N.Ireland'. The DUP joined hundreds of these guys in Ulster Resistance marching with red berets in military fashion. A year after the Ulster hall meeting, chaired by Paisley the group was involved in importing a huge arsenal of illegal weapons into the north. These weapons were subsequently divided among Ulster Resistance, the UDA and the UVF. However much Ian Paisley and others may claim to be opposed to such actions the results of the formation of such an organisation in a deeply divided society were inevitable. Dangerous and threatening language referring to 'force' and the paramilitary paraphernalia that accompanied the formation of Ulster Resistance in the Ulster Hall with Paisley himself centre stage chairing the meeting had the effect of leading certain members of that organisation to become involved in the procurement of weapons for the use of force. Over two hundred sectarian killings by loyalists were carried out in the aftermath of that importation of loyalist weapons in the mid-eighties. Yet the emphasis on decommissioning hardly ever focuses on loyalist weaponry and the culpability of Paisley and others in contributing to the very culture which causes loyalist violence.