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BS: Who would you save?
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: John MacKenzie Date: 11 Sep 03 - 02:59 PM Well if someone would assassinate Tony Blair, then I MIGHT consider saving him, but it would need to happen before I could be sure!! Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Janice in NJ Date: 10 Sep 03 - 11:45 PM Matthew Shepherd and all other victims of homophobic violence. Jeanne d'Arc and all other people (mostly women) burned at the stake or otherwise murdered for so-called witchcraft. Rachel Corrie and all others who died in acts of nonviolent resistance to war and injustice. Sylvia Plath, Phil Ochs, and all other creative people driven to suicide. All the Jews, Gypsies, Communists, Socialists, gays, lesbians, mentally or physically handicapped people, and other so-called undesirables slaughtered in the Holocaust. Denise McNair, Addie Mae Collins, Carole Robertson, Cynthia Wesley, and all other victims of racist violence. The Quinn Brothers -- Richard, Mark, and Jason -- and all other innocent victims of Ireland's "Troubles." An of course, all those killed in the terrorist acts of September 11, 2001, and the many acts of terror, counter-terror, and warfare that followed. That's far more than ten. Should I continue? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Grab Date: 10 Sep 03 - 11:06 AM Yitzhak Rabin, who could have been the Nelson Mandela of Middle East politics. John Smith, who could have turned British politics into substance instead of spin. Most other politicians were kind of a waste of space to start with, though. JFK was the prototype for Bill Clinton, he just happened to die before public opinion turned against him (as mentioned above, maybe that's an excuse to keep them alive, so we could assess him independent of the personality cult). Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: GUEST Date: 10 Sep 03 - 10:15 AM Joan of Arc, James Dean, Rupert Brooke,Edith Cavell, Jimmie Rogers(The Country One), Pushkin, Rimbaud, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: GUEST Date: 10 Sep 03 - 08:36 AM C Flat, do you also belong to the flat earth society ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: GUEST Date: 10 Sep 03 - 07:26 AM Willie McBride [He was only nineteen, When he joined the great fallen in nineteen-sixteen] The Bonny Boy {at the age of eighteen years, o'er his grave the grass grew tall) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: GUEST,pdq Date: 09 Sep 03 - 12:34 PM Gram Parsons, Tim Hardin and Tim Buckley all died of heroin OD. None seemed like the classic model of a heroin user, but you can die the first time you try the stuff. I believe the people we can save are the ones who are still alive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Midchuck Date: 09 Sep 03 - 07:36 AM DAMN, DAMN, DAMN! I forgot about Gram. Now who do I delete from my list of 10 musicians? I can't think of anyone. And now I gotta add Warren Zevon, so I'm up to 12.... Peter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: GUEST Date: 08 Sep 03 - 11:36 PM Good point Peter T.
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 08 Sep 03 - 09:25 PM Well, since a few people haven't been able to come up with ten, I'll fill in the holes with a few more that I don't think anyone's mentioned. Dave Carter Douglas Adams Gram Parsons Keith Whitley By the way, I firmly believe that though Keith Whitley had achieved country music stardom when he died, he would have gone back to bluegrass eventually. If you were fortunate enough to hear him singing with Ralph Stanley's band in the late 70's you understand. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Sorcha Date: 08 Sep 03 - 07:35 PM Our friend Brent Grover, suicide at 42 Ghandi Not sure about others, esp. John/Bobby Kennedy. Would have 'saved' Jesus if I could be sure he would not have been a martyr and started a cult. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Midchuck Date: 08 Sep 03 - 02:22 PM ...for the folks who would save jesus christ...he served his purpose by being a martyr....otherwise he would have faded into obscurity just like any other cult leader... That's why I would have saved him! Peter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Bassic Date: 08 Sep 03 - 01:28 PM A word perhaps, for all the not so famous people, the ones who have a huge impact on our lives but not as world leaders or as "greats" in their respective fields. I am refering to the people we know personaly who are taken before their time. For me they would be my father aged 63, and Sue the Smallpiper, aged 49. Both had so much more to give, wanted to be around to give it and have been very greatly missed. In order for this thread not to turn into an obituary column, may I sugest that my two choices (a man and a woman), represent all those ordinary, yet extra ordinary people we have lost. Please spare them and those like them a thought. For me they belong up there with the rich and famous. Thankyou. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Amergin Date: 08 Sep 03 - 01:20 PM well...for the folks who would save jesus christ...he served his purpose by being a martyr....otherwise he would have faded into obscurity just like any other cult leader... the same goes for jfk and mlk and malcolm x and joe hill... would we still be hearing about any of them if they had lived? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Sep 03 - 12:57 PM It definitely wouldn't be GUEST... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 03 - 12:55 PM Oh, Guest. Just stop it. How dull. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: GUEST Date: 08 Sep 03 - 12:48 PM Virginia woolf, Alexander The Great, Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King,Emily Bronte,Janis Joplin, Mozart, John Keats, Christopher Marlowe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: GUEST Date: 08 Sep 03 - 12:22 PM Isabel, The thread is becoming a joke thanks to you. Take your prize and go a way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: C-flat Date: 08 Sep 03 - 11:44 AM If Marlowe hadn't died young would we even know Shakespears name? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: GUEST,John Hardly Date: 08 Sep 03 - 11:40 AM Neil Young? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: mack/misophist Date: 08 Sep 03 - 11:37 AM My understanding is that, one way or another, Harold would have died.The Normans had orders to target the leaders at all costs. The real question, I think is 'What if Harold had had more tanists (understudies) to rally the men? The Normans only won by the skin of their teeth and it cost them dearly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Joe_F Date: 08 Sep 03 - 10:30 AM Burns, yes. James Agee. A couple of my college buddies who died in their boots. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Peg Date: 07 Sep 03 - 10:58 PM Do bear in mind that some artists with drug or alcohol problems sometimes go on to best these problems and continue their work...and this might well have happened with the "Js" who OD'ed like Joplin, Jimi, Jim, et al. I do not agree with those who say someone has "peaked" just because addiction problems ahve caused their talents and output to backslide, as this may only be temporary. Robert Downey Jr., Richard Dreyfuss, Norman Mailer, Carrie Fisher, Drew Barrymore, Robin Williams, Ally Sheedy, just a few examples of some who almost didn't make it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: GUEST,Just passing through Date: 07 Sep 03 - 09:42 PM Fermat, long enough to finish his last theorem and see if he proof held up. Sam Cooke. Einstein, long enough for him to learn that God does, indeed, "play dice with the Universe" and to determine if it was really his first wife who wrote the Theories of Relativity. Amy Robsart, long enough to find out what really happened. Christopher Marlowe, ditto. Elizabeth Stride, or any of the others, to find out WHO? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Sep 03 - 09:01 PM Noone's mentioned the Bronte sisters. And it's interesting to imagine how things might have been for the Beatles if Stuart Sutcliffe hadn't died. Of course, it's quite possible a change like that might have meant we'd never have hear of them, because John Lennon could well have been diverted into doing something else. And in the UK political world, it's a real bugger John Smith died like that and landed us with Tony Blair. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: izzy Date: 07 Sep 03 - 08:01 PM Actually that's an interesting point (and coincidence) about Archduke Ferdinand. We were discussing him in a recent English class at university (my teacher in that course is second-generation Croatian) and I was the only one who could say who he was and why he was important. How frightening is that? My mother, who is a college teacher, also says she's had some students WHO HAVEN'T EVEN HEARD OF HITLER. Sort of makes you wonder whether, through ignorance, we will be doomed to repeat our mistakes. Spot on with Jacques Brel. What a songwriter, what a satirist. It's worth learning French just for him (unfortunately the translations don't really do it--Le Moribond versus Seasons in the Sun, ugh!!) I think (pet theory of mine) that if Harold hadn't been killed he might have been able to rally the Anglo-Saxons and we wouldn't have had to put up with an aristocracy based on ideas of Norman ethnic superiority for so long. Anybody ever read an unsettling short story by Kipling called "The Tree of Justice", which deals with an idea like this? Speaking of people who died before we really got a sense of their true potential, I often wonder what Rupert Brooke would have done after the war. He was a supreme example of the syndrome that makes icons out of people who are reasonably talented and die young. Sorry for the long and rambling message, but this thread is beginning to get interesting... Cheers, Isabel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Raedwulf Date: 07 Sep 03 - 07:35 PM I dunno about 10... I might get there eventually... In the meanwhile, I'd agree with Harold Godwinsson & Wilfred Owen. Hmmmm... How about Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary. The agitators who killed him & his wife managed to assasinate the one bloke in the regime who had both the power & interest towards helping them. WWI might have kicked off anyway at some point, but the world would have been a very different place, I think, if FF had lived. Don't know whether it would have been better, just very different... Oh & on the subject of Jesus, there is a well argued theory ("Jesus the Man", by Barbara Thiering) that says he didn't die of crucifixion, but lived into his 60's. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: harvey andrews Date: 07 Sep 03 - 07:22 PM Sorry peter but; John Lennon Buddy Holly Harry Chapin Steve Goodman Kate Wolf Stan Rogers Phil Ochs George Gissing Jaques brel Mozart I was driving back from france today and on the radio they played "American Pie" and then pointed out that it was Buddy's birthday. He would have been 67. I had to pull over, choked up. The journey we never made....How can you be 60 and yet 15 at the same time? It still hurt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Midchuck Date: 07 Sep 03 - 06:08 PM Well, a lot of mine have been said already. I need two lists: Musicians: Stan Rogers Kate Wolf Steve Goodman The news had come by sometime back, when a rider stopped to say, Big North, young Kate, and the Goody boy had up and passed away... - Christopher Shaw; "The Year of '88" Hank (the real one) Elvis Janis Joplin (Yes, both of them were pretty well burned out well before they died - but I think of the burning out process as part of the dying. You can commit suicide with drugs either with one big dose or a lot of little ones.) Clarence White (and not because of his electric rock stuff - although there was nothing wrong with that either) Buddy Holly Waylon Jennings John Duffey (Yes, they both lived into their 60s. But I'm in my 60s, so I consider dying in said decade premature. And I miss both of them. To be continued. Peter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: GUEST,pdq Date: 07 Sep 03 - 06:04 PM Steve Goodman fans will note that he is gone and B.B. King is still here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Peter T. Date: 07 Sep 03 - 05:56 PM Oh yes, Wilfrid Owen, to be sure. It is also a real pity about Christopher Marlowe. Thinking about Don's thought, I think it is likely that Percy Shelley would have worn out his welcome if he hadn't drowned. He was, however, changing somewhat (The Triumph of Life is unfinished, but it is hard to see how he would have finished it). John Lennon had really worn out his welcome, it is hard to see that he would have become less strident and boring as time went on. I think Janis Joplin died on schedule, but what an amazing talent, I am still sad to think of her dying so young. Meanwhile: I would like to have had Bix Beiderbecke sober for a few years. Puccini for another five months to finish Turandot!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: izzy Date: 07 Sep 03 - 01:39 PM I recently lost a family member to cancer, and it is likely that it could have been avoided had she not smoked, ate properly, exercised, etc, since it didn't run in the family. So it is sometimes partly preventable. And no I don't want a 'prize', just a little of the respect I try to accord other people. May I ask why Mudcat allows anonymous postings? This feature is hardly ever used except by people who have the wrong motives --i.e. they have something controversial to say and they don't have the guts to put a name or nickname to it, or they want to wreck other people's discussions. Maybe I should start another thread about this... Back on subject, Wilfred Owen is somebody else who was lost much too early, if anyone is interested. And I agree about Harold. Cheers, Isabel |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: mooman Date: 07 Sep 03 - 12:01 PM I could pick many and agree with many of the suggestions so far. From my side... - Jo-Ann Kelly (someone I met all too late) - John Smith - All the unsung special people who made a positive contribution in this world and passed on either because of that or before their time. Peace moo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Amos Date: 07 Sep 03 - 11:23 AM Wow, misoph!! Most refreshing post to date! Thanks, A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Rapparee Date: 07 Sep 03 - 09:37 AM Actually, I'd like Jesus of Nazareth to drop around and filter what he actually said from what it's said he said -- straighten out the New Testament. I fantasize about the comments: "Whoa, dude! I never said nothin' like that! And that, yeah, I said it, but not in those words. Yah know, whoever edited this sure messed it up. And looky there -- I never even went there!" And so on. If JC had lived longer it would have interfered with the Christian redemption. (Something about term limits for politicians just occured to me -- if a public life of three years was good enough for Jesus of Nazareth....) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: izzy Date: 07 Sep 03 - 07:51 AM I meant Nick Drake. That's what comes of trying to post messages at 11 at night. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: GUEST,Wolfgang Date: 07 Sep 03 - 04:50 AM Rabin, for him living longer might have made a big difference Lumumba, for the same reason and I add Jesus from Nazareth, though I think with very different reasons from others who have named him. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Zoot Date: 07 Sep 03 - 04:22 AM Harold Godwinson (1066) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: mack/misophist Date: 07 Sep 03 - 01:22 AM It's more interesting to look at the lists already here than to compose my own. Don't forget, death can be a good thing. Dr. King had pretty much done his life's work when he died. I suspect he's worth more to the world as a martyr than a living man. Princess Di - A nice woman. Nothing more. Over-rated. John Lennon - I cried. But his work was almost certainly done, also. T E Lawrence - I don't think he would agree. Lincoln - A difficult call. If he hadn't been elected, the war might not have happened. Slavery was dieing economically, anyway. Buddy Holly - Who knows. I don't really care. Bruce and Brandon Lee? - Get real. Bessie Smith - Immortality wouldn't be enough. Stan Rogers & Hank Williams - ditto the above. Percy Shelly - Lived far too long. All thud and blunder, moke and smirrors. van Gough - It was a pity but give him his rest. Mozart - see Smith, Rogers and Williams. Schubert - Good but over-rated. If given another chance, he'd probably find a way to kill himself. AND NOW........................................... Jesus. I don't think he existed. If he did, the good he caused may outweigh the evil. And then again, it may not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: maire-aine Date: 07 Sep 03 - 12:10 AM Will Rogers (American humorist) Wilkie Collins (English author) all the astronauts |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: GUEST Date: 06 Sep 03 - 11:55 PM John Lennon and Jesus. That would be an interesting discussion... Lennon would win, mind. 'God' seems to be increasingly silent as science moves on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: GUEST Date: 06 Sep 03 - 11:41 PM I defy anyone to come up with a more unusual list! Isabel, Well given that one entry on your list is still alive, and another two died of cancer, and hence don't qualify according to the rules laid out above, yes your list is the most 'unusual' Do you want a prize? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 06 Sep 03 - 11:07 PM To answer Don's question, I think Jim Morrison falls into that category. In fact, he was well on the way there when he died. The Doors' music is still very popular, but I think Morrison, had he lived, had the potential to do things that would have made people never want to hear his music again. In a younger vain, I think Kurt Cobain of Nirvana would have eventually driven his fans away too. And, with apologies to Peg, Janis Joplin was so burnt out by the time she died that I have a hard time believing that she could have seriously accomplished much else. She had definitely peaked and was not gonna come back up again. Bruce |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Peg Date: 06 Sep 03 - 10:40 PM oh yes, Lal Waterson, good one. I have been discovering her genu=ius of late. Fine fine sparrow...fine, fine horseman. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Don Firth Date: 06 Sep 03 - 10:31 PM Hmm. Here's another thought probe: of the list of people whom you would like to bring back because what they accomplished while they lived gave an indication of how much more they could have contributed had they not died prematurely (careful, here it comes), who can you think of who probably would have totally it screwed up, managed to negate their earlier accomplishments, turned out to be nothing more that a flash-in-the-pan, and eventually died in obscurity? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Jeri Date: 06 Sep 03 - 08:56 PM This is a tough one. I don't know what would have been different if the public figures named had lived longer. Some of what they accomplished was because they died young. They're remembered because they died. People who followed them did certain things because they died, and the world changed. I'd pick people I knew. Even then, who's to say I'd be doing any good just because I saved myself the pain of losing them once. I just don't know... (BTW, Nic Jones lives.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Rapparee Date: 06 Sep 03 - 08:26 PM mg, there are a whole lot of guys I'd like to have seen come back from 'Nam -- better'n 58,000 of 'em, in fact. And that don't count the Vietnamese, North and South. Or the Laotians or Cambodians or Australians or . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: Amos Date: 06 Sep 03 - 08:23 PM ISabel: Yes. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: izzy Date: 06 Sep 03 - 07:58 PM And OBVIOUSLY Martin Luther King Jr. Hasn't anyone mentioned him yet? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who would you save? From: izzy Date: 06 Sep 03 - 07:57 PM Kenneth Horne, Tommy Handley, Little Titch, Marie Lloyd. T.E. Lawrence, Nic Jones, Sandy Denny, Peter Bellamy, Lal Waterson, Royston Wood. I'm sure there's lots more.. anyway, I defy anyone to come up with a more unusual list! |
