BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: Pistachio
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 03:22 PM

Please accept another
((((((((((((((((((((Hug))))))))))))))))))))((((((((((((((((((((Hug)))))))))))))))))))) each!



H.xx

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 12:57 AM

I love this website -- thanks for your thoughts and love.....

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 07:29 PM

It seems to me as I look back, the best ones didn't make it.
What that makes the rest of us, I really couldn't say.
But I know that if the tables turned, and it was me they were remembering,
I would not wish them sorrow.
I would want them to be happy.
I would need them to live for me.
And if they had to, shed some tears,
Just a few on Memorial Day.

-David Cowan
Memorial Day

So sorry for your loss.

Ernie

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 05:12 PM

I am so sorry to read of the loss of your friend, TRUBRIT... I wish I had some3 answers... I don't other than to agrre with those who have pointed out the insanity of this war...

Your story took me back to Vietnam and recieving bad news about friends and in my case, a relative...

It is horrific...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 01:42 PM

My post was lost in cyberspace.

Forty years ago, Stephen Pickett died in Viet Nam. I still mourn for him and see his face when I hear these lyrics:

"Or are you a stranger without even a name,
Forever enshrined behind some glass pane,
In an old photograph, torn and tattered and stained,
And fading to yellow in a brown leather frame?"

I share your grief, Deborah. Such a waste.

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 10:12 PM

Thank you,,,,thank you for reading it all and for caring.

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: Beer
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 10:10 PM

Late getting to this post. So very sorry for all the hurt that has come your way.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 10:02 PM

Amos -- thank you so much for doing this. I am totally technically illiterate and can't do the cut and paste job. He was a GREAT kid .... I'm still hurting. Mim (my daughter) and I went to his mum's house on Tuesday and left a poem that Mim had written (see back in the thread) superimposed on a picture of Jason. His mum was not home so we headed off to the cemetary -- and found her there. She commented that she knew Jason would love that place -- it's right by the airport, and the highway and the mall so he has lots of things to hold his attention. Oh dear God - what good did this do?

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: Amos
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 08:09 PM

Picture of Jason

Jason's Story in the Portland Paper

Requiescat in Pacem.

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: GUEST,chief chaos
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 07:50 PM

To Trubrit and all,

This is the first time I have read this post, I don't know why or how I missed it in the past. 4000 Americans, I don't know how many Iraqis or allied forces.

I am an American serviceman and I am crying at my post.

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: Amos
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 09:30 AM

"What the war has done to what is left of Iraq -- the lives lost, the families destroyed, the bodies tortured, the civilization trashed -- was bad enough. But what was done to America -- and the meaning of America -- was unforgivable. And for that I will not and should not forgive myself either."
-- Andrew Sullivan, in "What I Got Wrong About Iraq"

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: Amos
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 09:27 AM

Curveball demonstrates the profound stupidity of single-source intell. THe information he gave Germany then fell into the hands of idiots.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 02:27 AM

I know -- I heard that too.I think if I were in a long wait for a green card, I would say whatever I had to to get me in. I AM a green card holder -- it was easier back in my day...

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 02:08 AM

The obscenity of the war and all of these deaths was brought home this morning when I was listening to NPR. I think it was on the Diane Rehm show (link) today, the first hour, in which the panel got to talking about this one Iraqi who fled Iraq to Germany in about 1999. They gave him the codename "Curveball." He wanted to get a green card there and there was a long wait. He figured out that if he told them a story about something they thought was important they'd put him at the front of the line, so he made up all sorts of stuff about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. They couldn't confirm the stories back in Iraq, but the reporters said they should have checked with his community in Germany. They felt he was pushy and a braggart, and discredited anything he said. Too bad the Bush folks took (literally) this liar's story and conflated it with other lies into a war that has cost so much death and mayhem. Instead, based on the testimony of this one guy, look at what they have managed to do.

It needs to be said twice--it is obscene.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 01:53 AM

Just a comment - yesterday was one year to the day that my daughter's ex boyfriend, my other daughter's friend, my friend, was killed in Iraq. The paper had a whole page of pictures of people who had Maine connections and were killed in Iraq.....somehow we don't seem to be much further forward, do we.......

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 10:05 PM

I did fourteen years in the Service , and only knew ONE guy killed in action - In the Mutiny in Aden in 1967 ! NOT a close friend , he sang in the WRVS Folk Club at Steamer Point , but I can still remember how I felt when I heard he had been killed ! No One with half a brain wants to go and fight a war ! Let alone do any Anti Terrorist stuff !

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 09:47 PM

WE have paid, now, over 3500 American men and women lost -- permanently -- as a result of Bush's catastrophic misjudgements in Iraq.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 04:56 PM

Amen! Gary Trudeau was recently running a series of strips just listing the name of those killed -- it was startling to see our two S. Portland names in the column........made it more real. I'm still so totally pissed off I can't stand it.......

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 04:09 PM

I like what Woody Guthrie said:

I AIN'T A GONNA KILL NOBODY

"I took a bath this morning in six war speeches, and a sprinkle of peace. Looks like ever body is declaring war against the forces of force. That's what you get for building up a big war machine. It scares your neighbors into jumping on you, and then of course they them selves have to use force, so you are against their force, and they're aginst yours. Look like the ring has been drawed and the marbles are all in. The millionaires has throwed their silk hats and our last set of drawers in the ring. The fuse is lit and the cannon is set, and somebody is in for a frailin. I would like to see every single soldier on every single side, just take off your helmet, unbuckle your kit, lay down your rifle, and set down at the side of some shady lane, and say, nope, I aint a gonna kill nobody. Plenty of rich folks wants to fight. Give them the guns."

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 10 May 07 - 02:24 PM

Very moving ...

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 May 07 - 03:16 AM

Hi Mim, your mother's got good reason to be proud of you. War sometimes takes the best of what we have away from us. I see my older brother from time to time but still he's never really come home to us either. The saddest song I know calls those gone cause of war "The Flowers Of The Forrest". I sometimes think that the battle refered to in that song hasn't changed the feeling of loss over the past centuries. A whole generation of youth gets tossed away like yesterdays trash & no one speaks or sings for them. Thank you for speaking for one. You have a gift for putting those feelings into a poet's pen, keep at it we all need some one who can speak for those that no longer can.

The first 3 lines was a wonderful way to set up the rest of your poem.

When the news first hit
All I could hear
Was the blood in my ears

stay with it you are a natural.

Good luck
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 06 May 07 - 08:46 PM

Hello - This is Mim, Debs (TRUBRIT) Daughter...my mom was letting me read this post to see the different responses people left about Jason. It has been a very hard few weeks but it helps a little to know that there are so many other people out there who are thinking of Jason and holding his memory for us. I guess maybe i feel like the more people are thinking of and loving him...the more...alive he is in all of us. I have been showing the poem i wrote to everyone i can think of who cares to read it. Its the least i can do - and maybe in the same way, the most i can do.

anyway, thank you all for your support and kind thoughts during these times. Please keep thinking of Jason and all the other young men and women who are over there risking their lives every second and every day.

We will miss him and love him and remember him forever.

Mim

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: Alice
Date: 04 May 07 - 12:42 AM

I am so sorry to hear about Jason. Please pass on my sympathy in your loss of this young man.

Alice in Montana

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 03 May 07 - 08:56 PM

I am going to pass on all your wonderful words to her.........I am so proud of her....she uses words to cope -- I think she is brilliant, but again, I would have wished for any topic but this for her.......

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: GUEST,SINS at work
Date: 03 May 07 - 11:11 AM

Wish I had waited until I was home to read this. I am crying.

Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: jacqui.c
Date: 03 May 07 - 10:09 AM

Wonderful words Deb - you should be proud of her.

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: mouldy
Date: 03 May 07 - 05:21 AM

You are doing very, very well.
Do not apologise for what you express when you write. At a time like this all your feelings and emotions seem to whizz together into a kind of unholy soup, and you just have to let time start and separate things out.

It's hard for kids to deal with the subject of death at the best of times. We were all immortal at that age, weren't we? But when it happens to somebody from their own circle, and in such a cruel manner...

Your daughter has used the gift she has to make a beautiful tribute to this young man. She(and you)should be proud. It is a sad fact that, like my husband, Jason was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that leaves a lot of "if onlys", which it does not do to dwell upon.

He had a wonderful send-off, by the sound of things, and you should feel pleased that you all did him proud.

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 02 May 07 - 11:42 PM

Thank you.........; my daughter ( I think, at least) is a wonderful writer and she certainly had a topic here.........

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: Pistachio
Date: 02 May 07 - 06:03 AM

Your daughters words are stunning - Please thank her for sharing.
It is clear that young Jason made an impact on the many people around him.

"The only measure of your words and your deeds
Will be the love you leave behind when you're gone"

sorry if this is a misquote but it seems so true in this case.
H.

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 May 07 - 12:52 AM

WOW! I am without words...so very, very eloquent. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 01 May 07 - 10:30 PM

I post this with some trepidation -- if you think it is maudlin, or badly written or whatever, please just pass it by ......but I wanted to share these thoughts from my daughter on the death of her friend in Iraq - read earlier post. And on a day when it was announced 104 Americans (and God knows how many Iraqis) died in April her grief is out there being multiplied .... just wanted to share.

When the news first hit
All I could hear
Was the blood in my ears
And the rain on the windshield
As the whole world cried for you.

At first there was denial
As I thought to myself
No way, it's not true
Not him, not now, no way
And I just kept holding my breath,
Waiting ...
Waiting for that phone to ring
Waiting to hear your laughing voice
Waiting for the punch line
Cause I know you, and this must be a joke,
Right?

And then there was the guilt
Because I should've called
I should've written
And I should've made time
Because now - no matter how loud I scream
You will never hear me
Never again
But when we have the time, we don't use it
And when we don't all we can ask is why

And then came the memories
Flooding over me
Swelling from the bottom of my mind
The nights, the days, and all the inbetweens
And I hear your voice in the back of my head
But I can't make out the words.

And then I cried
I cried for the guilt
And I cried for the Anger
I cried for the denial
And I cried for our choices
I cried for the memories I miss
And I cried for the memories we never made.

Then there was reality
As I sat at home alone with the tears pouring down
Realizing, the punch line has long since passed
And there are no jokes left to tell.
Realizing that you are gone
And we are supposed to move on.
But how do we do that?
When there are no more second chances
No more attempts to get it right.

YOu told us you would never leave
That you were always near
And I know that even though you're gone
Really, you are here.
So I live on with your memory
Sleeping close to my heart
And I listen to the whispered words - stirring in my chest.

Now I realize just what it was you meant -
Because your soul is so bright and brilliant
That you could never die.
But instead, you live on, strong as always
In each and every one of us
For everyone you ever touched
Has a piece of your soul burning within them
And through my tear filled eyes
I look and see our friends
And I see that they are shining
And I know you are within.

Jason Swiger. You are my hero - I miss you.

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 11:45 PM

My daughter who dated this young man has written a stunning poem..I have asked her to permission to post it. If she allows me I will post it tomorrow -- one of the strongest anti war sentiments that I have read.......

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 05:32 PM

Again - thank you all.......if any good comes out of this kind of crap, I feel like a changed person.....not sure what I can actually DO but have been told there is a war protest gathering coming up shortly, in MA I believe I was told. I'll be there. My daughter was organizing everyone (she is her mother's child after all!!) for a gathering this week -- she says she is DETERMINED never to let too much distance grow between her and people she loves .... so I guess that is positive too.

This is such a great forum -- I needed to talk and say what I was feeling-- to receive such support, some from people I know well, and some from people I don't know at all, is so special........

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 09:53 AM

She may believe there is a reason
why God such trials will allow,
but charges Life with high treason
for Jason is an angel now.

My sympathies to all, and especially to Jason's mother...

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 07:03 AM

Sorry for your loss Deb, sorry for all the losses, sorry for all of the Jason's that should be home enjoying their youth & future as they should be. I wish I could say something that would make a difference, I wish there were some way that all the friends & families could fill the holes that these losses leave.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 12:44 AM

Crying with you and feeling angry, too. Thanks for sharing.

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 12:30 AM

Thank you for reading it.....

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 12:21 AM

Thank you for sharing this with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew him...
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 12:09 AM

Yesterday was the wake - today was the funeral. It's been a long hard couple of weeks. At the wake, there were hundreds of people -- so many people were friends of my kids that I hadn't seen in a while A pretty crappy way to catch up. One of Jason's friends had been a kid we had taken under our wing and tried to help. Tall, handsome, and just lost -- hugging Jason's mum and it was hard to tell who was crying more. My two daughters in tears, hugging each other -- the older one sustaining and helping the younger one. My bad tempered 18 year old son who currently seems to think of nothing but himself - he was there. Groups of kids hugging each other and promising from this day forward never to let years go by between seeing each other. The coffin didn't look big enough -- surely he was taller than that? - but then I remembered, no -- huge personality but actually a small guy physically. The high school principal was there -- she had been at another wake just two weeks before for another local boy killed. Jason's wife - looking as if she hadn't quite grasped what was going on. Pictures of Jason with his friends including my kids...........

And this morning, the weather supported our mood as it snowed over all of us on our way to and attending the funeral. I planned to drive and meet my children there -- at a work meeting before driving, turned round to see my husband standing there telling me that huge chunks of the city were closed off and if I wanted to go, I needed to go NOW and he would take me. Police cars blocking traffic off for two or three blocks from the cathedral. My kids watching for me when I went inside. Veterans standing outside the cathedral in the freezing cold keeping possible demonstrators away. I am not for the war but I would have cheerfully taken out a protester at the knees if they had disrespected this day......

The funeral was full mass. Many of the younger people, including mine, did not know what was going on for the communion ritual....my older daughter said to me afterwards that she didn't think it was appropriate for the priest to use this as an opportunity to cross sell religion. Listening to the words of the priest and thinking how wonderful it would be if Jason's 'soul' was with his Creator, and he was safe and warm and watching us from a distance, but personally doubting it. Watching the kids -- one of my daughter's friends looked absolutely ill. Watched my daughter's boyfriend, 6'4" - a large lad - crying as the coffin was carried in. One of Jason's brothers had to be escorted out during the ceremony because he was distraught.

And then to the cemetary. The funeral cortege was so long --- we went on the highway, and to my shock, the highway was actually closed off for cars that were part of the funeral party. All kinds of military at the funeral -- both his wife and his mother were presented with a flag -- his mum saluted the soldier who gave it to her. The Last Post - a 21 gun salute. Friends of Jason's going up to the coffin and putting flowers or letters on the coffin. My daughter had been up really late the night before -- writing her letter. She told me she felt so guilty because she was angry with him over a newspaper interview he did one time when he was home and she wouldn't see him that time. I told her -- friends fight. But maybe the way to deal with it might have been to see him and talk to him about concerns..........

Your support and comments have helped me tremendously. I find I am so totally angry that I don't quite know what to do with myself. I understand Cindy Sheehan's reaction to her son's death completely. WHY? WHY is this boy dead.........? End the war, end the war, end the war.....and love people while they are here and with us.

OK - I'm done. No more posts on the subjects. I wish Jason were alive and I was irritated with him (as I often was) as opposed to mourning him .... which is hard.......

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 06:54 PM

We don't raise our children to murder and rape and destroy. We don't raise them to die horribly in mud and muck and deserts and jungles. When are we going to make this clear to the idiots in Washington who go off on patriotic blood baths over and over again?

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:41 PM

Please do, TRUEBRIT. It helps to feel as though we can help even if in a small way by being here and listening.

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 11:11 PM

Possibly one too many glasses of wine --this guy was a good kid. More later....

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 10:53 PM

Again - thank you!! We just found out the wake is from 2 - 7 on
Tuesday (I suspect they anticipate the whole town will attend - which they probably will)...my daughter asked me today to take her shopping for a funeral outfit on Monday which I am happy to do (imagine saying no under such circumstances......) -- if you all van stand it I will do a day by day rollup.....this guy was a kid

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 09:46 PM

It's always more awful to know someone. So sorry, Trubrit.

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 09:25 PM

Beyond the absolutely insane politics behind this war of choice by Bush and Blair there is the muchly hidden deep sorrows felt by the families and loved ones who are either killed or very badly disabled...

I personally am so sorry for your loss, TRUBRIT...

((((Hugs))))

Yeah, this war really does suck but...

ahhhhh...

...(((((more hugs))))

Sniff...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 09:04 PM

Yes indeed - a most gracious response -- it is just BLOODY AWFUL....it's horrible, it's a waste, it's a crime, and it just damn well hurts so much. Again, thanks........

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:50 PM

A very gracious response, katlaughing.

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 12:43 AM

It's not maudlin. It's how we all feel at some point and we have a right to express those feelings and seek out others who understand and can offer support. Please, TRUEBRIT and meself, don't apologise for feeling thus and for expressing yourselves. You are among friends and we understand. Stiff upper lips won't get much in the way of support or friendship, imo. Being true to yourself and to the ones you have lost by sharing your sadness and anger is an honourable thing and we are blessed by your sharing. And, if we have tears in our eyes then we are human and also full of feelings and it is good that we can empathise.

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 12:33 AM

One day at lunchtime last year, a grade 11 girl came to the staff room in tears, asking to speak to one of the teachers. She was usually a very cheerful, upbeat kid, so I was curious and concerned ... Another teacher told me what it was about later on that day ...

That teacher had taken this girl and some others to a conference for Native youth in Calgary about a month before. As part of the trip, they took a visit to the nearby Canadian Forces Base, and were given a tour by a young officer. He and this girl hit it off, and he took her for a ride around the base in a military jeep ... And that's all there was to it, other than that they probably exchanged a couple of e-mails after that. Anyway, on the day in question, about a month later, this teacher was walking along with a few of the kids she had taken to the conference, and said to them, without thinking an awful lot of it, "Do you know those four Canadians that were killed in Afghanistan by that land mine yesterday? That guy that gave us the tour at the base was one of them." This girl collapsed to the ground, then burst into tears ...

Well, I had a lump in my throat for the rest of the day, and I have a lump in my throat now, thinking of that innocent, cheerful girl, starry-eyed over the young soldier, and him proud of his uniform, his jeep ... Yes, it's maudlin, but it's real, and it's awful ...

Subject: RE: BS: Another death in Iraq -- but I knew this
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 11:09 PM

BigDaddy -- your comment is so fair. Any useless loss of life is something to grieve about. Certainly with this young man, several Iraqi children died along with three other Marines -- the suicide bomber did not differentiate and the soldiers were giving candy to the children. I actually am from a military background - my father was a British military officer and I fully accept that when you voluntarily sign up for something - you must accept the consequences.

But you know - I KNEW this kid. He irritated me at times, annoyed me at times, delighted me at times but I knew him and I just feel so damned angry over the waste.......it is so REAL with someone you know.....my daughters were at a spontaneous gathering to celebrate his life last night. When we were talking about it I said to my daughter -- I just CANNOT take this in -- he CANNOT be dead. And she said, I know what you mean -- I kept expecting him to walk in and ask why everyone was so sad. 24 years old! He stripped all the wallpaper off my spare bedroom in return for a slap up meal of his choice (ribs, as it heppened). He teased me, teased my son and generally contributed to conversation at the Sunday night dinners he so often attended. He's just a loss -- no more or less than any of the other people who have died - but a personal loss to me and my family. And it hurts.

I know I am being maudlin - but I am so sad and so angry. Again. thank you all for your kind words and thoughts.