Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Tattie Bogle Date: 27 Mar 17 - 01:15 PM No, I'm not knocking it! Love the original tune and it has been known for some of your folk musicians in Captain's Bar in Edinburgh to do their version of it, just improvising on the chord sequence - as was suggested further up the thread might have been Pachelbel's idea! In answer to Mr Red, I used go to a songwriting workshop with an indie band musician: seems they DO start with chords first, (any sign of a predictable sequence and they'll throw in something totally obtuse!) then hang a tune on the words, then think what words they might to it. Complete reversal of my usual songwriting, where words come first, then tune, then what chords fit with tune! |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Mr Red Date: 27 Mar 17 - 04:47 AM If you are going to get inspiration, osmosis and all that jazz, Pachelbel is a good tank to be immersed in. IMNSHO. Chord progression? Is that not the flavour? Any song writers/composers out there who haven't had inspiration after a recent visit to a Folk Club or session? No? Really? I don't believe you! |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Bugsy Date: 27 Mar 17 - 04:40 AM "SIMILAR" that's the clue. So is 'Meet Me On The Corner" Lindisfarne and "Farewell to the Gold" Paul Metzers. CHeers Bugsy |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Jack Campin Date: 26 Mar 17 - 07:57 PM This is rather addictive in a sick sort of way. The Warped Canon Page |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Tattie Bogle Date: 26 Mar 17 - 07:16 PM Funny how old threads re-surface! 'Twas me that suggested looking up the "Pachelbel's Rant" video on YouTube, which Becky did, back in 2008. I also suggested trying Ivan Drever's "Long December Night" - just listen to the instrumental intro and interludes in this: remind you of anything? (2 of my favourite musicians, by the way, especially Duncan's fiddle playing!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dytj_JfG1Ug |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 26 Mar 17 - 02:52 PM fancy that! all these years Ralph's been playing it wrong! the scallywag! |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: GUEST Date: 26 Mar 17 - 12:15 PM Oops - my last post - I have the two mixed up - the top progression with the funky II(7) chord is Streets ... sorry for the mix up. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: GUEST Date: 26 Mar 17 - 12:13 PM Pachelbel: I - V - vi - iii - IV - I - II(7) - V Streets: I - V - vi - iii - IV - I - IV - V Almost identical - the 7th chord is different in Streets. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Stanron Date: 13 Nov 15 - 01:55 PM One of the reasons the chord sequence is successful and used so often in different ways is that it is based on a formula. Fifths and seconds. C to G is a fifth, G to Am is a second, Am to Em is a fifth and Em to F is a second. F to C is a fifth and C to D is a second. After that the pattern breaks to achieve resolution. The human ear is so attuned to music that this kind of pattern is recognised even though most people could not define the pattern. Another example of a dual interval pattern is Hotel California. That is fifths and thirds. Am to E is a fifth, E to G is a third, G to D is a fifth and D to F is a third, and so on until the pattern breaks for resolution (usually in bar eight). The use of patterns in chords can be reflected in melody. Pachelbel is better at this than McTell but McTell was definitely better with words. With a bit of experimentation you can make up your own chord sequences using interval patterns, there's no guarantee they will be original. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: GUEST,Boo Date: 13 Nov 15 - 10:56 AM If the chord sequences don't sound identical you probably need to work on your musical ear a bit! |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:44 AM there are no down and outs in Belper. its quite posh. they even have a delicatessen nowadays selling french loaves and stuff like that. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: GUEST Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:25 AM Re "Boulevards of Belper" - sorry I was in error, this traditional tune dates from around 1971 not 1671. There is still a club in Belper me duck - must admit I've never been there. Website: http://www.geocities.com/geoff.deighton@btinternet.com/index.html |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Art Thieme Date: 09 Mar 08 - 06:58 PM I never knew than Taco Bell had a cannon! Overkill if you ask me. Frank, Without really thinking about it, there probably are 2 or 3 songs in my own repertory lurking with the same progression. Thanks all for your good input. And no offense intended to Ralph McTell. That's for sure. Art |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Big Mick Date: 09 Mar 08 - 05:43 PM Yeah Frank, but until guys like you and Art put it to the post, it isn't gospel.........***chuckle**. Which is just my way of saying thanks to folks like you, Art, Sandy and Caroline, Miss Jean Ritchie, Mark Ross, Dan Milner, and so many others, for sharing your incredible knowledge with us. Every so often it just needs to be said that you honor us with your presence. All the best, Mick |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Stringsinger Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:15 PM Hi Art, I believe that there are many tunes that follow this progression. "One Tin Soldier" "Streets of London", even "Waltzing Mathilda" can be made to work. You could re-work the Beatles' "Let It Be". "Here's a Song for All the Good People". Even the tune "The Black Flies" could be squeezed into this progression. The progression will work for any dance tune (ala contra) that backs up a fiddler using just a major chord substitution. Richard Dyer-Bennett used the progression for an into to "The Jolly Rogues of Lynn". A lot of pop songs employ this progression-device as they used to for the ubiquitous I, vi minor, ii minor and V7. But what the heck, you knew all this anyhow. Frank |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:06 PM "So this bloke Pachelbel is going round singing a song about his photocopier, and he's nicked Ralph's song." and don't forget nicking tunes from John Tams and Roger Watson.. Charlotte (keeping an eye open for this Pachabel person) |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 08 Mar 08 - 01:58 PM So this bloke Pachelbel is going round singing a song about his photocopier, and he's nicked Ralph's song. I call it despicable - pinching a traditional folksong like Ralph's. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) Date: 08 Mar 08 - 12:06 PM "Both Streets of London and Pachelbel's Canon are based on a traditional tune called Boulevards of Belper, collected by either John Tams or Roger Watson" John Tams and Roger Watson are older than Pachabel?? Good god! they do hold their ages well *LOL* Charlotte (it was on a Monday morning that the gasman came to call) |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: M.Ted Date: 08 Mar 08 - 10:39 AM Don't sell yourself short, Mr. Red-- |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Mr Red Date: 08 Mar 08 - 03:04 AM Mole Catcher! Over-played? never never never. Unless you were using a post ironic pun. A canon, is, by definition, overplayed. n'cest pas? |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Dave Hanson Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:56 AM Perhaps not the sharpest knife in the drawer M. Ted but not pretentious either. eric |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:53 AM This is all about some peoples belief that chord progressions are melodies. Down through the years, I've had lots of people strum chord progressions to me and are surprised that I can't "name that tune". They of course can hear the tune inside their head but to the outside listener it's just a series of strummed chords. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: BK Lick Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:11 AM That canon's pretty darn ubiquitous, for sure. Check out Alicia Keys's "No One" which won Best Female R&B Vocal Performance and Best R&B Song at the 2008 Grammy Awards. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: GUEST Date: 08 Mar 08 - 12:47 AM Think of the passamezzo moderno - G C G D G C G D G -which fits "Boil them cabbage down" for one - it has spawned one way or another hundreds of tunes, and I'd say half of them were deliberately crafted to fit it. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: M.Ted Date: 08 Mar 08 - 12:41 AM You're not the sharpest knife in the drawer Eric the Red--this isn't a criticism of anyone, it is a useful piece of knowledge--if your trying to play any of the above mentioned tunes, it helps quite a bit to know the common root--and, if you were working up your own rendition of "Streets of London", and wanted an instrumental break, it helps to know where you can find a bunch of melodies that will fit-- |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 07 Mar 08 - 11:09 PM I listened to the tune for Streets of London in the Digitrad, and I don't think it has the same chord progression as Pachelbel's Canon. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: The Vulgar Boatman Date: 07 Mar 08 - 05:39 PM Ed, you're a bad bugger! And that's a compliment. Is there still a club in Belper? |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: GUEST, Sminky Date: 07 Mar 08 - 06:53 AM Nick - the correct chord progression for Streets is: C G Am Em F C FMa7 G Ralph himself said so. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: GUEST,edthefolkie Date: 07 Mar 08 - 05:31 AM Both Streets of London and Pachelbel's Canon are based on a traditional tune called Boulevards of Belper, collected by either John Tams or Roger Watson. See first Muckram Wakes album me duck. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Nick Date: 07 Mar 08 - 04:55 AM >>I think the chord progression is also the one in the harpsichord break by George Martin in "In My Life" I don't In My Life - C G Am C7 F Fm C Streets of - C G Am Em F C D7 G |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: GUEST,fogie Date: 07 Mar 08 - 04:06 AM Simon Richie wrote a tune called the Valiant which we used to run Pach Canon on from - a great tune with a descending bass very similar |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Dave Hanson Date: 07 Mar 08 - 02:37 AM To M.Ted, why does it matter, Woody Guthrie, Ewan MacColl and the like never had problems borrowing old melodies for new songs. What a totaly pointless thread this is. eric |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: katlaughing Date: 07 Mar 08 - 12:34 AM Becky, thanks for the link. Spaw, thanks for pointing it out to me. Rog and I just had blast watching that guy. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: M.Ted Date: 06 Mar 08 - 09:31 PM Just shoot me. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Mar 08 - 07:29 PM Same chords don't mean too much in themselves You can play Kevin Barry and The Sash with the same chords as each other. They make a nice medley, if you've the nerve.. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice Date: 06 Mar 08 - 05:25 PM "as folk musicians know full well, even though the melody is a line of single notes, those notes pretty clearly define the vertical harmonies." Ohhh I would think other genre musicians are aware of this too. " P's Cannon" he owned a cannon too? *LOL* Charlotte (the comic view from Ma and Pa's piano stool) |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: M.Ted Date: 06 Mar 08 - 05:20 PM Acorn4-as folk musicians know full well, even though the melody is a line of single notes, those notes pretty clearly define the vertical harmonies. Pachelbel's basso continuo dictates the chords pretty clearly, and, though they often are stated horizontally chords are still chords-- As to the other, when you write music in the folk idiom, the ideas that you use have been used for the last 400 years, so it's pretty hard to find anything "new", and if you did, it wouldn't be "folk". |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Ross Date: 06 Mar 08 - 03:22 PM Lots of other songs based on it too Here's two So Sally Can Wait/Don't Look Back in Anger - Oasis All together Now - The Farm |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: The Vulgar Boatman Date: 06 Mar 08 - 03:05 PM As far as I know, Ralph McTell and Al Stewart devised the tune together, or at least both agreed to use it, and wrote different words to it. Al recorded 'Samuel Oh How You've Changed' before 'Streets' was recorded, though not long before. I played support for Al sometime about 1969, but I can't remember if Ralph's version was out then. As for Pachelbel, look in a dictionary of musical themes and see how many classical themes match each other - there's yards of them. KYBTTS |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Art Thieme Date: 06 Mar 08 - 02:55 PM What the hell has Rabbbi Sol got to do with this! That's terrible thread creep, and you should be ashamed--- and ostracised too. Art |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 06 Mar 08 - 02:19 PM SoL also has the same chord progression as theIrish song "Cavan Girl" Don T. |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: GUEST,Acorn4 Date: 06 Mar 08 - 01:54 PM Just to throw a cat among the pigeons a bit, does a canon have a chord sequence? Pachelbel was a mate of J.S.Bach's dad, and a canon is actually written contrapuntally. ie: horizontal melody lines rather than vertical chords - most of the contemporary composers (except the French ones like RAMEAU who did tend to think chordally) wrote in this way and the chords were only created incidentally when the repeated overlapping melody line created a harmony -a canon is like a bit more complicated version of a round, like we used to sing Frere Jacques or London's Burning at school. Can Ralph therefore be acquitted on a technicality? |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: catspaw49 Date: 06 Mar 08 - 01:40 PM Becky.....Thanks for the YouTube clip......I laughed myself silly and when Karen came home this AM we both laughed all through it again. His other stuff is pretty cute as well, especially the "Friends" thing. Thanks from both of us. Spaw and Karenspaw |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 06 Mar 08 - 12:39 PM Of course, Ralph pinched the tune from Al Stewart - or so some people say! |
Subject: RE: Is Streets Of London truly Pachelbels Canon??? From: Tattie Bogle Date: 06 Mar 08 - 12:29 PM Thanks, Becky, that's the clip I was thinking of. Try Ivan Drever's "Long December Night" then: the intro is stright from Mr P himself! |
Subject: RE: Is Strts Of Lndn truly Pchlbels Canon??? From: M.Ted Date: 06 Mar 08 - 10:53 AM Eric the Red-Actually,yes--I care very much what "Streets of London" is and isn't--as a musician and composer, I spend most of my time thinking about the component parts of all kinds of music(which is probably why I never get anything else done)-- They even teach you to do it in music school--which, for good or ill, is why so much music sounds the way it does-- |
Subject: RE: Is Strts Of Lndn truly Pchlbels Canon??? From: GUEST,Ken Brock Date: 06 Mar 08 - 09:49 AM I think the chord progression is also the one in the harpsichord break by George Martin in "In My Life" |
Subject: RE: Is Strts Of Lndn truly Pchlbels Canon??? From: Dave Hanson Date: 06 Mar 08 - 09:20 AM Does anyone really care if it is or isn't Pachibollocks canon or howitzer or whatever, The Streets of London stands up on it's own mertits, great song. eric |
Subject: RE: Is Strts Of Lndn truly Pchlbels Canon??? From: GUEST,nateba Date: 06 Mar 08 - 08:24 AM Dog years |
Subject: RE: Is Strts Of Lndn truly Pchlbels Canon??? From: GUEST,Suffolk Miracle Date: 06 Mar 08 - 08:07 AM "Will Mr Pachelbel be rising from the grave to claim his PRS fee?" Not unless: a) he invested a few guilders during his lifetime to make sure that his £100 subscription had been paid b) he can persuade people that his date of death (about 1706 from memory) is less than 70 years ago. |
Share Thread: |
Subject: | Help |
From: | |
Preview Automatic Linebreaks Make a link ("blue clicky") |