BS: What kind of person would do this?

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 12:26 PM

""They should have some regret that things were not handled a whole lot better in the long chain of small events that led up to the final problem...and they should learn something from that. You don't build a healthy society on the principle of vengeance.""

I would love to agree with that, were it not for the fact that the converse also applies. You don't build a healthy society by watching a child do something wrong and say "Aah! That's cute", nor can you achieve success, having given that child the wrong message, by threatening schoolteachers and preventing them from instilling the discipline you should have instilled.

That is why the first practical lesson in discipline is often a cop waiting as they emerge from a bank with a sawn off shotgun.

Sad but true!!

The answer is in educating the parents in bringing up children, but that ain't going to happen anytime soon. So you're left with dealing with the results by punishment, like it or not.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 12:01 PM

Thanks, man.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 11:09 AM

.. just when you were reaching the limits of polite toleration
with your 'bee in yer bonnet' Don Cherry spamming of UK threads..

you write this excellent thought provoking post

which is a reminder just why you are the mudcatter I respect the most..

cheers...

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 11:02 AM

You have to address a whole set of complex issues if you want a society where no one is inclined in the first place to drop a concrete block off an overpass on someone else. You have to ensure that people are:

1. economically secure
2. well educated
3. have a strong sense of purpose and idealism
4. have learned a good set of values
5. in short: are happy!

To address those issues in the first place when organizing a society is a far wiser course than seriously neglecting most of those issues and then meeting social violence with greater institutionalized violence in order to supposedly "stop violence".

This is why the Draconian approach to law enforcement has never much impressed me. Like war, it is probably the least intelligent response to an already bad and previously neglected situation. It's a short term fix, not a long term solution to anything.

Now, there are times when a short term fix may be the only way to go...at that moment. But I don't enjoy the way some people gloat over it when they do it. They should have some regret that things were not handled a whole lot better in the long chain of small events that led up to the final problem...and they should learn something from that. You don't build a healthy society on the principle of vengeance.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 05:38 PM

its called action and reaction, if i walked in to a folk club and started hitting members of the audience , it is not unreasonable to expect someone to hit me back.
if you go around hurling concrete blocks at cars do not be surprised if someone sticks a cross bow in your stomach,.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 05:12 PM

Right, Dick. It has never worked, in fact. Punishment, as I have agreed on several previous threads, is an altogether terrible idea ~ negative, counter-productive, self-contradictory: all the things the well-meaningers have been complaining of for ever. Unfortunately no society has ever thought of a better one.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:54 PM

Trapping a person in the stocks and 'pelting them with sh**' or 'firing a crossbow into their stomach' doesn't sound too far away from lobbing a concrete bollard at folk on a motorway to me."
you are punishing people for being a danger to society, if people didnt go around lobbing blocks at cars, they would not need to be put in the stocks.
that person that threw a concrete block, will not throw another one, after getting a crossbow in his tum.
violence begets violence , get away with your namby pamby rubbish its not working and hasnt worked for years

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:33 PM

As I was walking home tonight I saw a pedestrian in the middle of the road waiting for the traffic to let him through. 10 yards from a pedestrian controlled crossing, in dark clothes. Along comes a police car, blues and twos on, and instead of stopping where he is the pedestrian crosses IN FRONT of the police car causing him to brake. Arrogance and idiocy.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 12:13 PM

""Trapping a person in the stocks and 'pelting them with sh**' or 'firing a crossbow into their stomach' doesn't sound too far away from lobbing a concrete bollard at folk on a motorway to me.""

The same thought occurred to me Eliza.

At least rock breaking would produce something beneficial to society and save the taxpayer some dough.

As for the obsessive Jack Campin camping out on an ambulance service blog (does he shill for a no win no fee shyster, I wonder?), how come he ignores the myriad accidents (remember that word Jack?) which don't involve cyclists or pedestrians.

People like our Jack seem to forget that drivers are pedestrians too.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 09:59 AM

Trapping a person in the stocks and 'pelting them with sh**' or 'firing a crossbow into their stomach' doesn't sound too far away from lobbing a concrete bollard at folk on a motorway to me.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 07:17 AM

A broken windscreen is an indication of the force with which it hit the cyclist or pedestrian. That's why it's important to know.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 06:28 AM

Oh, for god's sake Jack. Some people get hurt in normal car prangs of the sort that happen in traffic every day ~~

~~ so in Jackcampinland that makes it all right for yobboes to stand on bridges and aim deliberately and with full volition to cause malicious damage to the vehicles passing below & injure their occupants, does it?

Where the hell are you coming from, please?!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 06:15 AM

No, it doesn't say 4 people need ambulances - and it doesn't say that in the third incident the cyclist was hurt at all.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 05:50 AM

Last entry in that BBC blog:

2354: Adrian Brown at the London Ambulance Service control room Two more calls just come in - a cyclist and pedestrian outside Barts Hosptial, N19, and a two car crash in Upper Holloway. Someone has a broken humerus bone - that's the large upper arm bone.

And another call just in about an incident in Farringdon between a car and a cyclist, with reports of a broken windscreen. Ambulance on its way there.

In two paragraphs, four people badly enough hurt to need an ambulance, and whoever's writing it up thinks it matters that a car has a broken windscreen.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:45 AM

I think I see some possible causes. In a feral society, the capacity to harm others is a tool to assert one's own position, and in most cases I suspect this type of miscreant both exists mostly within a feral society and feels disempowered by society at large (compare the fact now emerging that the UK rioters were largely inspired by hatred of the police).

Thus demonstrating the ability to harm others results in an increased sense of self-worth for the rock-tosser (or tosser for short).

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:19 AM

"They told you that a motorist destroying a child's life doesn't matter. "

You don't know what news media I follow, you self-righteous prick, so leave that off right now.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Penny S.
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 06:43 PM

It's quite possible that they don't actually take account of there being any person in the cars. I had my car spat onto once - sun roof being open. They only got the windscreen, thank goodness, and that it was only spit. I think that was the challenge of the hole. I made a point for a while of changing lane if possible when I saw someone on the bridge.

And I got hit by an egg thrown from a van oassing me on an ordinary road in Gloucestershire. It damaged the paintwork. Combined speed less than 60, I think.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 06:21 PM

It could be anger, but it could also be stupidity - someone who wants to watch things fall and cars get smashed, without regard for the people in the cars. I think that is the difference between the psychopath and the sociopath.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 05:55 PM

eliza , imprisonment is costlyand tends to introduce them to more hardened criminals , no the stocks are fairly good, and i reckon that the lad that got the crossbow in his stomach wont do it again.
the cause , who knows, boredom perhaps, or excitement and doing smething wrong and getting a power kick at the same time, i dont know i am guessing.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 05:48 PM

jack Campin is quite sound when he is talking about and explaining modes, such as mixolydian and dorian, in my experience on any other subject else, he is away with the faeries or up barking creek without a paddle

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 03:57 PM

Two instances of this sort of crime reported in Scotland tonight. Does this mean there are actually fucking copycats for such evil?

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 02:49 PM

""Most "accidents" are caused by carelessness, stupidity, recklessness and overweening confidence, not misfortune. Driving recklessly, especially while ratrunning through residential areas, is quite as criminal as dropping a concrete block from a bridge.""

You will of course be able to supply evidence as to that assessment that "MOST" accidents are the fault of drivers, rather than kids darting out into the road, or stupid halfwits who are lost in a world of their own with a phone clamped either to one ear or to a pair of thumbs.

"Careless driving" is so called because it is unintentional, else it would be called "reckless", or "dangerous", and is obviously a lesser offence than attempted murder.

You and the rather sick Mr Campin need to get, first your facts, then your priorities right.

I try hard not to be involved in accidents when I'm driving, yet twenty years ago I had a pedestrian go from my bonnet to the roof and land on the road behind my car. He was running across a London street to catch a bus and didn't even notice me. According to the policeman in the car behind me, who almost ran over him, I was doing twelve miles per hour and he reckoned the pedestrian was travelling much faster.

According to Jack Campin I would be as great a criminal as those dropping concrete on cars, which says quite a lot about his mental capacity.

Incidentally, I am one of those proles (proles DO drive cars) and the pedestrian was a middle class civil servant in bowler and pinstripes. I suppose, in Jack's twisted view that might make him fair game.

As to the A12 would be murderers, it makes me wish for a return of the old punishments, such as breaking up rocks for hardcore. Ten years of that would cut the cost of building and render the recipients much less likely to re-offend.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 02:36 PM

I've had two in 35 years, both of them minor, and both of them my fault. As I said, most "accidents" are nothing of the sort, and I'm amazed that some of the buggers survive. April to September, round this area, there's a serious motorbike accident every weekend on average- all caused by stupidity. The victims mostly themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 02:32 PM

The two cases reported in the link Virginia gave occurred within forty minutes of each other, more than eight miles apart. It seems pretty evident that whoever did it was using motorised transport, most likely a car or van.

The assumption that it was some nasty little kids doesn't actually sound the most likely explanation.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 02:19 PM

Yes, one could of course exterminate them with a death sentence. One could imprison them for a long time to protect the public. One could attempt to treat them in a psychiatric institution etc etc. But the question was "What kind of person would do this?" not, "What would you do with them if they were caught?" I maintain there are many of these people around, manifesting their sickness in different and equally dangerous ways.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 02:14 PM

Never had a prang in all your years of driving, Paul? My, what a fortunate fellow!

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 02:12 PM

I am not favouring any particular form of punishment or treatment (even if one could identify and catch them)
but i am put them in the stocks and throw sht at them. I am sure that this little idiot will not do it again after having a cross bolt in his belly

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 02:01 PM

I think the perpetrators are psychopaths, not sociopaths. They act without any care for their victims. Little Hawk's comment was a good one. These are what I used in my teaching days to call The Unloved. Strangers to love, attention, care and affection, abused and neglected, they have no concept of others' needs or suffering. They are indeed angry and extremely dangerous. I am not favouring any particular form of punishment or treatment (even if one could identify and catch them) But loved and cared-for humans do not do these things.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 01:43 PM

Most "accidents" are caused by carelessness, stupidity, recklessness and overweening confidence, not misfortune. Driving recklessly, especially while ratrunning through residential areas, is quite as criminal as dropping a concrete block from a bridge. The only difference is that one criminal hopes to cause damage, and the other hopes he/ she will not cause damage (especially to their own vehicle), but takes no care to justify that hope.

But as I pointed out earlier, attacks of this nature on trains are a very frequent occurrence. it's only the underlying intrinsic safety of the railways that makes them survivable.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 12:43 PM

Jack ~ Sorry, but you are right out to lunch. You equate unfortunate motorists who have the misfortune to be involved in accidents, which NO motorist seeks or gets involved in deliberately, if only because of the effect it would have on his insurance, and the possibility of prosecution if the police think any dangerous or careless driving involved ~

even if, in your fevered imagination, as a bourgeois brute he wouldn't mind killing a prole brat or two ~~

with the deliberate attempts of definitely criminal and antisocial people to cause wanton damage to vehicles and injury to their occupants by purposely aiming missiles.

Idiotic!

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 12:34 PM

jack the sailor, someone who is pissed off with having rocks thrown at their car.
I cant say I approve, however it will probably to be prove an effective deterrent.people who throw rocks at cars should be put n the stocks and have shit thrown at them

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Penny S.
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 12:31 PM

There was a case on, I think, the M23, in which a lorry driver was killed, I think almost instantly. I can't remember if the crash also caused injury. I remember appeals for information.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 12:28 PM

This is interesting reading:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16030644

A live feed of road accidents around London. Most of them pedestrians and cyclists assaulted by people with cars. Think any of those incidents are going to make the national news? Another injury much worse than anything inflicted by the guys with concrete blocks:

London Ambulance tweets: Staff are taking the boy involved in an RTC in Enfield straight to the major trauma centre in Tower Hamlets with head injury #crash24

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 12:13 PM

You didn't get to see that news item yourself, did you?
I followed your link.

Only because I provided it. The news media you normally follow didn't. They told you that a motorist destroying a child's life doesn't matter.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 12:03 PM

Yeah we did.........right here around Columbus too.   We had somebody shooting at cars all over town, I guess this type of sociopath eventually gets around to the Washington DC type of a few years ago. We live in a society filled with nutjobs and there ain't one helluva' lot we can do about preventing it.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 10:16 AM

Whoa- some of you seem to be jumping off of those bridges to some pretty bizarre conclusions. Sourpuss Bluesman anticipating the malady of social workers freeing hooligans, someone else bringing microwave kitten - sheesh. The oddest thing about the first article was that they photographed the rock, commented it was probably from someone's garden - like a photo of a lost dog, wondering if the owner will recognize it and come forward?

There are sociopaths everywhere, and every so often communities go through spates of this stuff. "Kids" who do this kind of thing know they shouldn't be doing it, so age is no excuse. Probably 15 years ago now someone on the west side of my town killed and injured several people by dropping rocks from freeway over pass bridges. There probably was a copy-cat component to it. This is in contrast to freeway shooters who set up in a blind near a road and take out drivers at will. Then the activity that may have the entertainment value of seeing a destructive collision (concrete on glass) escalates from the targets being the cars to the targets being the drivers. Ohio had one of those a few years back.

I'm glad you got home safe, Virginia.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 08:59 AM

What kind of person would do this?

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 07:45 AM

"You didn't get to see that news item yourself, did you?"

I followed your link. I was knocked off my bike the other week. The driver was a young Asian male. That must mean young Asian males are targeting middle age white cyclists by your logic.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: GUEST,I Don't Know
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 07:20 AM

Just seen a £3000 reward has been offered for information, anyone likely to tell on friends. I still doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 07:14 AM

WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE WOULD DO THIS? They come from the same sad stable as those burglars, reported today in "The Daily Telegraph", who "cooked" a kitten to death in a micro-wave during the course of their criminal goings on.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 07:02 AM

Essex police fear 30 incidents of rocks being thrown from A12 bridges

There's no reason to make any assumptions about age or the class of those responsible. They could be middle aged fat cats for all we know.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: GUEST,Shining Wit
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 06:56 AM

The people who do this are killers, plain and simple. They do it in the full knowledge they could kill someone.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 06:39 AM

Jack where do you get all that from that news item.

You didn't get to see that news item yourself, did you?

The kid was far more seriously injured than anybody has been in this series of concrete attacks on cars, and it was deemed not to be news. It never is.

A couple of years ago a bunch of kids went through our village in the middle of the night scratching cars and smashing their lights - that made the national British news, though there was no chance whatever of anybody being hurt at all. If somebody with a car is a victim it's like Jeremy Clarkson was running the news desk.


Do you think middle class drivers are targeting working class kids?

Yes. They know they can get away with killing them so they don't bother taking OBVIOUS precautions. They don't give a shit.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 05:30 AM

Indeed, very glad you were OK Virginia Tam.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: GUEST,I Don't Know
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 05:19 AM

Glad you were alright Virginia Tam. News reports say it is being treated as attempted murder. Doubt they will catch anyone, seems to have been well organised.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 05:06 AM

Bet they came from broken homes and their mothers took in washing and the odd milkman too. Never tasted steak until they were 20.

If they are caught they need not fear, social workers are always on hand to fight their case and blame society for failing the little bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Silas
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 03:49 AM

Patsy - have you any idea how many motorway bridges there are?

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 03:22 AM

I remember a spate of concrete being thrown from bridges in the 70s. At the time rightly so it was acknowledged that this was a despicable cowardly act of vandalism. There is no excuse for this and whoever is found doing something like this should be locked up for a very long time. The police now should do more and patrol all motorway bridges to prevent anything like this happens again.

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Silas
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 03:02 AM

Was rather wondering that m'self?

Subject: RE: BS: What kind of person would do this?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 01:25 AM

Jack where do you get all that from that news item. Do you think middle class drivers are targeting working class kids?