What does 'English' mean?

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 02:16 PM

Well if you will live in Ireland, Captain......

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 01:31 PM

It means you will be hated by many different nations.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 03:22 AM

a third of a joke....

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Gurney
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 02:32 AM

Bill, I don't agree. It is clearer my way, in my opinion.
However, as the comma is a dying device in this day of texting, along with all other types of punctuation and also spelling, I suspect we are both dinosaurs.


I have a program for my cellphone that allows me to type texts out on this keyboard. Sod 'em, I say.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 10:55 PM

Bloodnok: "Are you English?"
Neddy:    "Only by descent!"
Bloodnok: "By descent?"
Neddy:    "I came down by parachute!"

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 07:43 PM

Ah, my dear Gurney...the commas after 'thrown' and 'bowled' are not really required.

"...attempting to alter the trajectory of a thrown, or more usually, bowled object, such as..."

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Rowan
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 06:37 PM

When I looked up the link posted by Q I was surprised to see that almost all of the terms are not only known in Oz but I could count less than half a dozen that I hadn't heard used here.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 03:19 PM

Ooops! This is a BS thread after all, isn't it? My bad.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 03:18 PM

The OP described himself as "new to this forum," but we shouldn't assume that he was completely ignorant of what is customarily under discussion here.

I thought, and still think, that his question related to defining "English" as a description of folk/traditional music, not football. And Joe and the clones apparently agree, since the thread is up here in the music secion, not down in the BS Basement.

After all, defining "English" (as opposed to "British" or, God fiorbid "Celtic") music, "English" traditions, etc., is controversial enough among this group.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 02:53 PM

I am still annoyed at the transparent idiocy of the original question, no offense intended.


A

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 12:17 PM

Back when I used to read US motorcycle magazines, I used to hear that riders used body english to get round a berm. Two nations divided by a common language.(Though not that common nowadays in some rural parts of East Anglia).

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: GUEST,dazbo
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 09:28 AM

Neil D - a popular addiction to flagellation in England amongst the gentry was known as the English Vice. Can't see it's as much fun as sex but then I didn't go to a Public School (or a private school to our American chums)

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Gurney
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 02:02 AM

'English Leave' is a translation from French of what the English term 'French Leave.' That's according to Flanders and Swann.

'Body English' is the urging body movements forlornly attempting to alter the trajectory of a thrown, or, more usually, bowled, object, such as a 10-pin bowling ball.

5 commas in 6 words. Don't think I've ever used so many.



If Rugby and League and Oz Rules and American Football is supposed to be FOOTBALL, they are very badly named. Handball is a foul in REAL football.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 05:47 PM

I was always told that a rugby league player was a union player with his brains kicked out...

(exit pursued by a bear)

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 05:22 PM

I'll accept Rugby Union Football as football, but the other one isn't brutal enough.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 05:17 PM

Georgiansilver, The correct name for so-called soccer football is "Association Football", and danensis, the vaguely similar game you are desperately trying to avoid mentioning is "Rugby Union Football".

Rog

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: danensis
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 04:12 PM

No. we play football, rugby league, and another game which is vagueley similar to the latter.

John

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 02:05 PM

Hey 'Q'...the English play rugby football and soccer football.
Best wishes, MIke.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:27 PM

There is that peculiar byway of language called British, or English 'humor.'

A lot of the old chestnuts here, plus some that were new to me:
Best of British

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:14 PM

Surely English merely means 'Born in England'.

Rog

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 11:53 AM

Football in England? I thought they played soccer.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 11:25 AM

I suspect that the originator of this thread was probably thinking in terms of the appointment of the new "English" football coach, and has realised from the intelligence of the replies that he's in the wrong forum. He certainly doesn't seem to have any intention of following up his query. Still, it's been an interesting exchange of views and information.

Andrew

PS - Thought for Paws

I did say 'approximately'

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 04:43 AM

No interest in the replies from John Simmonds?

I thought that the British were generally pushed west and north by the Celts when they came to what we call the British Isles about 3 centuries before the Romans turned up.

No, the British (Pritani, Brettoni etc.) were the "Celts" who were there when the Romans arrived, and also after they left. (What Celt meant, apart from language, is a matter for debate.) They may have displaced an earlier population, and they may have merged with them, or there may simply have been a change of culture over some hundreds of years. DNA evidence suggests both continuity and immigration.

The English got their name from the Angles, but it doesn't mean that every Englishman was an Angle- the probability is that the immigrants mixed with the indigenous population in varying degrees. Then of course Norses of various flavours came along and added to the Micks (sorry, mix) and changed the language again. And so on.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 08:18 PM

Well . . . you did have to ask, didn't you?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 08:14 PM

The first reference to 'english' for putting side spin on the cue ball is in Mark Twain, 1869, "Innocents Abroad." "You would invariably put the 'English' on the wrong side of the ball." No explanation of where the term came from. The book is probably online, if anyone wants to look. Page 116 of the first edition.

The stories by Rupert Hughes, comprising "The Dozen of Lakerim," members of a fictional athletic club, serialized in Century Magazine and in the children's magazine "St. Nicholas," reached every corner of North America. A story in 1898 described a billiards game in which the hero used 'english,'
Information from The Oxford English Dictionary, complete edition.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Rowan
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 07:43 PM

Cobra put the finger on the ethnicity aspect with
so to be English is in fact to be a descendant from any/ all of the following - Angle Jute Pict Celt Hun Norman Saxon Roman Viking and latterly Polish Romanian Indo-Chinese Arabic African Afro-Caribbean etc etc etc

But that description also applies to many who were born in Oz (and, I dare say, many other parts of the Commonwealth and even the US) who would never call themselves "English".

When Guest Dazbo asked
why is spin on a pool ball (or baseballs) called english? Peace wrote an excellent answer which included Visitors from England showed Americans how use spin, which explains why it is called "English" in the United States but nowhere else.

But it's called "English" in Oz, possibly because of Walter Lindrum but it probably predated him.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 07:36 PM

Boiled vegetables.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Amos
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 05:28 PM

"Blue Clicky Thing" was coined by Rick Fielding, and quickly decayed into "Blicky".



A

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 04:04 PM

If you want a good Breakfast ask for a full "English"

Gerry

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 03:55 PM

Corollary to the meaning of "english" that has to do with puting enough spin on a ball to alter its trajectory is the related term "body english" whereby a person's bodily movement after releasing a projectile is performed in hope of influencing the direction of flight. Also known as "follow-through." Further thoughts?

All that other ethnic and geopolitical stuff, I'll leave to others. It's interesting enough, but I have nothing to add...

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: open mike
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 03:20 PM

We often say here two countries seperated by a common language,
or something to that effect when realizing linguistic differences between Yookers (U.K) and Yoosers (U.S.) (mudcat slang terms which
go along with "Blicky" meaning blue clicky (clickable link)...another "new" word invented by mudcatters as far as i can tell..

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: open mike
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 03:14 PM

It also is a term in ping pong referring to putting a spin on the ball.
In Swedish there are dances known as Engelska ...a duple-meter rhythm "imported" from Britain in the eighteenth century, ...

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 02:36 PM

"England is a country ..... south of Scotland." (Richard Bridge)
"Geographically, ..that part of Britain bordered (approximately) by Hadrian's Wall and Offa's Dyke. (Crane Driver)

H'mm.   OK, I live 20 miles north of Hadrian's Wall, and north of some bits of Scotland. Due north of me is another 50 miles of England before reaching Berwick-on-Tweed.
In a village where the long-term inhabitants speak one of the closest languages to Angle left in Angle-land - a mixture of Geordie, pitmatic, and Northumbrian. The kids are bi-lingual - they understand "proper" English, and will use it if they have to. But their native language is far more colourful.

English?....not really, not like Surrey or Somerset or Shropshire.....
Scots?....certainly not.....but Edinburgh is closer than London by far.

Welcome to the Border marches

Paws

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 12:52 PM

Many who call themselves English do not want to be thought of as British, and want to be called European even less.

I am English. I am also British and European and proud to be each. Being European doesn't make me less British, just as being British doesn't make me less English.

My dad was half Scottish, my wife is half Polish and my brand new grandson is half Ghanaian but we're all English.

I'm happy to put Citizen of the World alongside all my other layers.

DC

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 12:08 PM

Yes, that's a sort've aberration on the part of local councils, supuermarkets, etc -rapidly putting up signs in E.European lingoes; I never noticed it happening with previous migrant influxes

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 11:23 AM

In bowling (keggling, not cricket) it is the space to the left of the head pin for a right handed bowler.
    In (American)personal ads it is used to express an interest in fantasy games involving disciplining or being disciplined. I'm not sure why.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 10:46 AM

Come and live in The Backwoods of Lincolnshire Liz, you'll HAVE to learn Polish or Lithuanian because there are more of 'them' than 'us' here nowadays! They're even putting up bi-lingual road-signs in Polish and English around Boston :-)

Having said that, there's a group of 'em running a hand-car-wash near me, they work like hell and do a fantastic job for not much more than the 'automatic' car washes that knock seven bells out of your body-work. Good on 'em!

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 10:43 AM

Such will be the case for a long time because you don't have to be a member to start a thread.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Amos
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 10:41 AM

To the French un chapeau Anglais means what "a French letter" means to the English.

But, I am sorry, but this is a really dumb question without any context or any indication what the asker wants to know...or that he has done the minimum search into ordinary references.

A

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 10:34 AM

It means never having to learn a foreign language!

LTS (joking!)

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 10:26 AM

"Billiard equipment improved rapidly in England after 1800, largely because of the Industrial Revolution. Chalk was used to increase friction between the ball and the cue stick even before cues had tips. The leather cue tip, with which a player can apply side-spin to the ball, was perfected by 1823. Visitors from England showed Americans how use spin, which explains why it is called "English" in the United States but nowhere else. (The British themselves refer to it as "side".) The two-piece cue arrived in 1829. Slate became popular as a material for table beds around 1835. Goodyear discovered vulcanization of rubber in 1839 and by 1845 it was used to make billiard cushions. A two-to-one ratio of length to width became standard in the 18th century. Before then, there were no fixed table dimensions. By 1850, the billiard table had essentially evolved into its current form."

from

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:dQ1pCJctsv8J:www.doolysproshop.com/poolhistory.php+pool,+english,+history&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 10:24 AM

Because to have called it "the land of the rising sun" would have made the expression hard to say and confusing to use. Hey, kid, put a little lower-right land of the rising sun on the cue ball and bring it back here for . . . .

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: GUEST,dazbo
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 08:42 AM

why is spin on a pool ball (or baseballs) called english?

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: GUEST,redhorse at work
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 08:12 AM

To a Frech or German engineer it means an adjustable spanner

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 07:38 AM

I thought that the British were generally pushed west and north by the Celts when they came to what we call the British Isles about 3 centuries before the Romans turned up.

Many who call themselves English do not want to be thought of as British, and want to be called European even less.

I'm not sure that I like to be thought of as English either, it seems a bit too vague. Who can think of Northumbrian's, Salopians, Kentish men, Men of Kent etc. as all being part of the same race?

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 07:30 AM

A person who, while travelling abroad, carries teabags and jar of marmite.
McGrath's definition"everyone born in England" is currently the liberal line, and it has much to commend it; but many undoubtedly Scottish, Welsh, Irish and Cornish people were undoubtedly born in England, and I am not sure if they would all agree with him.
   Possibly a very tricky a word to define, much like "folk".

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 07:17 AM

I once read a history book by Paul Johnson--it was called "The Offshore Islanders" in the UK and "History of the English People" in the US. It was generally a good read, but he confused me in the first chapter in the way he used the words "British" and "English"--not as synonyms or even as overlapping terms. He used "British" to mean "Celt" and "English" to mean "Anglo-Saxon."

After I figured out what he meant, I had to re-read that chapter to make sense of it.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 06:48 AM

Particularly us backwoods types LOL

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 06:45 AM

Simple - it means 'A supremely superior human being'.

Subject: RE: What does 'English' mean?
From: Stu
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 06:42 AM

".... so to be English is in fact to be a descendant from any/ all of the following - Angle Jute Pict Celt Hun Norman Saxon Roman Viking and latterly Polish Romanian Indo-Chinese Arabic African Afro-Caribbean etc etc etc"

Excellent!