BS: Anyone defend US gun law?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 09:32 PM

One is inclined to think that if those in the UK had the kind of access to guns that we do in the US that everyone would be dead in a week. A month tops. Too bad, because we'd miss some of you;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 08:26 PM

> substantially higher than the rate in the United States...

So it's a good thing the savages *are* kept forcibly unarmed, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 07:56 PM

Only took 2.3 seconds to get an analysis of comparative violent crime rates.

There are other pages, but this one says:

"Due to fundamental differences in how crime is recorded and categorized, it's impossible to compute exactly what the British violent crime rate would be if it were calculated the way the FBI does it, but if we must compare the two, my best estimate‡ would be something like 776 violent crimes per 100,000 people. While this is still substantially higher than the rate in the United States, it's nowhere near the 2,034 cited by Swann and the Mail."

It is hard to compare when societies have different definitions and reporting systems. The UK seems to whack on each other more, but do less average damage.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 06:19 PM

If the UK has it right, why is your violent crime rate EIGHT TIMES that of the US?

Hunh? WHAT statistics RE: "Violent Crime" (whatever that is defined as)rate???

And what have firearms to do with it?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 06:13 PM

If the UK has it right, why is your violent crime rate EIGHT TIMES that of the US?

I'd be happier if the likelihood nut jobs could get their hands on guns, and anybody could get their hands on assault weapons was reduced, but this whole "my country is better than yours" stuff is just stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 05:43 PM

Rap, just makes the case even more firmly for not having guns, thank'ee.
In fact, your count is about 2 days' death count on a similar basis in the US - and those events go back up to fifteen years!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 05:18 PM

Zug: 14 dead; Tours, 4 dead, 10 wounded; Nanterre, 8 dead; Erfurt, 18 dead; Freising, 3 dead, 1 wounded; Turin, 7 dead; Madrid, 2 dead, 1 wounded; Emsdetten, 11 dead; Tuusula, 8 dead; Naples, 7 dead, 2 wounded; Kauhajoki, 10 dead; Winnenden, 15 dead; Lyon, 10 wounded; Athens, 3 dead, 2 wounded; Rotterdam, 3 dead, 1 wounded; Vienna, 1 dead, 15 wounded; Espoo, 4 dead; Cumbria, 12 dead...and then there's Utøya and Oslo: 77 dead and at least 209 wounded. Of course, that's not at all current.

Maybe if Europeans were allowed to pack heat these wouldn't have been so bad -- or they still would have happened, just as they might have in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 12:18 PM

According to my wife i am always wrong so I am use to it my friend

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 09:59 AM

Rahere yes but you should see how good the audience is when I play at the coffee shop :)

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 09:31 AM

Irony Ahead:

But since they're not Americans, they're just "exceptions that prove the rule."

End Irony.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 09:29 AM

And how do those incidents compare numerically with the cases of gun violence in the U.S., Rap?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 09:25 AM

I see that a guy in Holland shot up a courthouse today...and then there's that fella who shot up a museum recently....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 08:37 AM

How many guns does the US need
Before they call it a day?
Yes, and how many graves must the families weed
Before they're taken away?

The answer, my friend, is pissing in the wind
The answer is pissing in the wind

How many times must we post this again
Before OldDude learns he's wrong?
Yes, and how many times does someone feel the pain
Of someone killing their son?

The answer, my friend, is pissing in the wind,
The answer is pissing in the wind

Because if the US made love not war
Their women would be peeing themselves in the street,
The size of the dicks they once thought they saw
No more than a small stalk of wheat.

The answer, my friend, is pissing in the street
The answer is peeing in the road.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 02:36 PM

Jack you are a tool but you know that you creep

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 01:48 PM

Meanwhile, you can be the most lethal serial killer in history with a gun in your hand and another armed-to-the-teeth killer pal beside you and it still doesn't save you from getting what's coming to you at the hands of a fellow tooled-up psycho:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/03/16823532-american-sniper-author-chris-kyle-fatally-shot-at-texas-gun-range

I hope the Iraqi resistance fighters who put a bounty on Kyle's head have the decency to pay up towards Routh's defence fund.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 01:53 PM

In the USA, even the National Chamber of Commerce courses & objectives have changed from the original purposes. If an organization which begins as a reasonable interest group is co-opted by self-serving, greedy but clever marketers, it can be very hard to combat them and form counter groups. They use the rhetoric of their saner origins and distort the meanings until they are almost 180 degrees from the beginnings.

The NRA is a paradigm example.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 12:59 PM

I think you'll find that the courses & objectives of the two organizations in question have diverged a bit since 1871, Rap.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 12:47 PM

Well, this group dates to 1859, and so the US was just following the lead of Mother England on November 17, 1871....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 12:18 PM

Still, you have to admire the intelligence of their weaponry, if they're able to form an Association all on their little selves. Most other people would form an Association of Riflemen. Probably says something about those who bear arms, dumber than their own guns!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 09:48 AM

Tell me about it, Greg. I live about 100 miles south of the locale of the most recent Zimmerman lunacy in one of FL's most conservative districts.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 09:31 AM

Hey, that's FLORIDA - David Berkowitz could get a carry permit.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 08:58 AM

...and in another instance this jackass.
That this guy should be granted a carry permit is really discouraging and an indication of how far we have to go.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 08:24 AM

One problem may be that for years many Europeans and others across the way thought of the US in terms of the Wild West as shown in the movies

A greater problem is the number of U.S. folks that STILL thnk of the present day U.S. in terms of the "Wild West" of the movies and behave accordingly.

Like the National Rifle Assassination, for instance.....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 04:07 AM

Oh I don't know. Sometimes you have to eat swill to gain affinity with the pigs.

We gave you knives and forks and you can't even get that right... No wonder you misunderstood the role of firearms in society.

See ? Easy.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 03:35 AM

Quite so.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 01:50 AM

Troubadour, don't tell me that you're taking the Guest Troll's (fake) view to heart! We all know better.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 08:10 PM

"Oh oh bloody brilliant kind of thing like when fishermen and other civilians had to paddle your army home when hitler was driving them into the sea at Dunkirk was it wot bloody good show."

You really need to get an education mate.

A grasp of simple English for a start! Then you might be able to read and understand history (probably just the Primary School version).

Two minutes research would set you straight on the effect on an expeditionary force, of having both flanks (Belgium and France) collapse, leaving them exposed to a pincer movement by a much larger force.

Getting 350,000 men off the beaches under fire was the victory which ensured that the UK would not be invaded, and indirectly sealed Hitler's fate.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 03:21 PM

Or you could be in a civilised country where the idea of owning a gun for self defence sounds uncivilised, medieval and dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 02:53 PM

"... but the situations and principles involved seem not all that different."

Exactly... depending on a gun somewhere 'handy', like a bedroom drawer, for 'self-defense' in case of intruders, is FAR more often likely to be useless or lead to such tragedies.
If it happens in the middle of the night, most people are far more likely to be sleepy, confused, and in a hurry... leading to mistakes.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 10:01 AM

That's the sort of thing that happens with promiscuous gun ownership.

As is the present tight corner that the gifted but eccentric athlete Pistorius has got himself into. I know it is not the same country — South Africa not USA — but the situations and principles involved seem not all that different.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 09:42 AM

And it seems a gun isn't even an effective defence against a kid wielding a clarinet;

http://newsdaily.com/2014/09/12/gun-toting-colorado-woman-threatens-boy-over-clarinet-practice/

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 05:55 PM

I pop popcorn before looking at this thread. It's fun to watch the last vestiges of the British Empire dissolve while people cling desperately to the notions of "Western civilisation" and Greenwich Mean Time. Come to think of it, more clock towers is what We Yanks need.

Then, every once in a while, I throw my toys out of my pram and yell "Balls!" like Sterling Hayden in _The Long Goodbye_.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 04:50 PM

Is that an Iraqi supergun in your pocket or are you pleased to see me?




Phallic symbolism. A load of cock.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 04:41 PM

Well, now time for a little gun music interlude, to this gun-powder issue.

My favourite part:

""Time to get a gun
That's what I've been thinking
I could afford one
If I did just a little less drinking
Time to put something 
Between me and the sun
When the talking is over
It's time to get a gun""

Fred Eaglesmith 

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 04:20 PM

... and a


☺


right back to you, dear Ebbie...

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 03:51 PM

One problem may be that for years many Europeans and others across the way thought of the US in terms of the Wild West as shown in the movies where the stalwart hero with holstered gun riding on his well-worn chaps (not the UK version!) rescued distressed damsels and sweet old ladies and then rode away with nary a scratch. Or at most, a superficial wound to his arm, which, incidentally, was never his gun shootin' arm. Only bad men were killed.

Perhaps now they think the mythical Wild West has suddenly turned its guns onto itself. We have let down the mystique - and the fantasies of generations of youngsters were obliterated.

:) This is a smiley, folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 10:50 AM

This habit of quoting some statement by a famous name, in tones as if it somehow settles everybody's hash, has ambivalent [at best] effectiveness. I think Mao was mistaken about pretty well anything it is possible to be mistaken about. So why am I supposed to give a flying one where he thought power came from, Rap? & what, precisely, are you trying to demonstrate by quoting it?

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 10:45 AM

Ah but even rednecks in deepest Dumbfuckistan know he was a "commie!"

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 09:07 AM

"Power comes from the barrel of a rifle." --Mao Tse-Tung

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 09:03 AM

Truly, I don't think "civilization" is anything more than a very, very thin veneer that societies and nations break and cast aside when their interests are "threatened."

The Arabic civilization was light-years ahead of the European and in fact taught many things to Europe that had been forgotten during the "Dark Ages." The Celtic Christian church had its own ways, in many ways far superior to those of Rome, but was tossed when Rome demanded absolute obedience to its authority. In many ways Elizabethan England was quite civilized, but broke on the rocks of James I (VI), Charles I, and Cromwell.

No, I think it depends on whose ox is being gored...and who demands Power. As "Bath House" John Grogan to King Richard Daley I, "Seize the power and all else will follow."

"...to whet a stranger's lust for power and gold...."

When I took over in a job in top management, I was told that I'd have to take a turn at running a group that was spread across several counties (an area about the size of England). I replied that I didn't want that...I wanted to be the spider in the middle of the web. THAT'S power, and it can and will corrupt and can bring down empires -- see the USSR (I knew that and managed to avoid it).

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 06:11 AM

True, musket.
Your phrase "Keep banging the rocks together" is so appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 04:38 AM

I don't see how discussing USA vs UK has any bearing on this.

The UK holds its head high in the field of civilisation as we don't need guns to compensate for personal inadequacy. Let's not forget, we are discussing letting people carry guns for personal protection, something civilised countries haven't felt the need for in a very long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 03:33 AM

Not on the evidence he's presented here, Ebbie.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 03:02 AM

Bill D does not need me to defend him but oh, boy, are YOU wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 02:55 AM

Nobody likes a clever-shit Bill. I'd refer you to the comment commonly attributed to Oscar Wilde regarding sarcasm.

Sarcasm is also the final refuge of a moral coward who got caught out making an erroneous statement and hasn't the backbone to admit he was wrong.

Carry on wriggling and sniggering, it obviously makes you feel better about yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 09:38 PM

Brits fought just fine in many, many situations. The US did pretty well when they realized that isolationism was foolish. There's no need to compare and debate 'better'.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 09:29 PM

Southern man don't need you around anyhow or your advice

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 08:58 PM

Oh oh bloody brilliant kind of thing like when fishermen and other civilians had to paddle your army home when hitler was driving them into the sea at Dunkirk was it wot bloody good show. How about patton having to wait for monty wot yea right fuck you

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Lighter
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 08:06 PM

> How many British does it take to win a war none the US has to do it for them

Well, they certainly made Hitler think twice - while US isolationists and pacifists were doing all they could to keep us out of the fight (1939-1941).

And it was the Brits who drove the Japanese out of Burma. There was that Afrika Korps business, too, and sinking the Bismarck and all. Not too shabby.

In 1918 the Brits had to teach the Americans how to fight. Quite well, in fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 07:41 PM

Hi 'guest' (I'm sure I can guess who.).. you will no doubt get remarks from the local proofreader about your lack of punctuation....and a few other things, I'm sure.