BS: Wall Street Protesters...

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 08:54 PM

"Corporations and banksters are greedy. They make lots of money which they spend on:"

They make money from that list of things, SS. It's simply re-investments to them.

"Monetarily, in 1940 dollars, the estimated cost [of WW II to the USA] was $288 Billion. In 2007 dollars this would amount to approximately $5 Trillion. In addition, the effects of the war on the U.S. economy were that it decisively ended the depression and created a booming economic windfall. Because the United States mainland was untouched by the war her economic wealth and prosperity soared as she became the world leader in manufacturing, technology, industry and agriculture."

It's a mere bagatelle in comparison, but there is still 60 billion dollars unaccounted for from the war in Iraq. Wasn't my money so I ain't complaining, but it makes me wonder why youse guys aren't asking about it. Sixty billion here, 500 billion there and pretty soon it adds up to real money.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 08:48 PM

BINGO, Strings...

This is why the right wing is pushing this mythology that OWS doesn't have any positions... No, it has plenty... No 200 page "white papers", thank you... And there won't be any... That's a trap...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 08:45 PM

The reason that the Wall Street Protests work is that the protesters have connected the dots and can't be pinned down to a sound byte issue.

Corporations and banksters are greedy. They make lots of money which they spend on:

1. war
2. pollution
3. destroying the middle class
4. destroying small businesses
5. paying CEO's too much at the expense of the taxpayer
6. foreclosures
7. cutting benefits for poor and middle class
8. supporting shadow organizations like ALEC
9. supporting politicians by buying them off
10. suppressing free speech (by buying off the main stream media)
11. buying off the police in New York City who pepper spray and abuse demonstrators
12. destroying unions
13. allowing lobbying to dominate politicians
14. gambling with taxpayer's money
15. being sociopaths
16. shipping jobs overseas
17. flaunting their wealth with champagne toasts while people are hungry

(The beat goes on. What's not to understand?)

Fortunately the demonstrators are smart enough not to be collared by some pundit.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 05:14 PM

I've seen that graph before and heard it described as the "bikini graph"... Purdy much sums up Reaganomics... A completely dumb idea gone from dumber to dumbest when the economy was on verge of going off the cliff in September of 2008... And here's the kicker... The Republican presidential candidates all want even more of it???

Thanks for posting it, TIA...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 03:44 PM

Thanks for posting that, TIA!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 03:14 PM

TIA has pretty much summed it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 02:42 PM

Quote any little snippets you like.
If you look at all the facts, it is very clear how we ended up here.
Everyone in the USA should be required to read this.
If you get to the end and don't agree - fine (but please use data to refute).
But it should be required reading.

https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=dfjpnvj7_362gqsrdddt&revision=_latest&start=0&theme=blank&cwj=true

slide show

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: pdq
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 02:07 PM

Student Aid and Fiscal Responsibility Act (SAFRA)

Provisions of the Student Aid and Fiscal Responsibility Act (SAFRA) were included in the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act (HCERA) of 2010, which was signed into law by President Obama on March 30, 2010. The legislation makes college more affordable for millions of Americans, at no new cost to taxpayers.

The Congressional Budget Office estimates the legislation would generate $61 billion in net savings over the next 10 years by ending the Federal Family Education Loan Program. The reconciliation bill directs those savings to students and families by:

    * Investing $36 billion over 10 years to increase the maximum annual Pell Grant award to $5,550 in 2010 and to $5,975 by 2017. Starting in 2013, the award will indexed at the Consumer Price Index and increase with costs-of-living. This includes an investment of $13.5 billion to fund the shortfall due to increased Pell Grant demand;
    * Investing $750 million to bolster college access and completion support for students, part of which will increase funding for the College Access Challenge Grant program;
    * Making federal loans more affordable for borrowers to repay by investing $1.5 billion to strengthen an Income-Based Repayment program. New provisions would lower the monthly cap to just 10 percent (currently 15 percent) of discretionary income for new borrowers after 2014; and
    * Investing $2 billion in a competitive grant program for community colleges to develop and improve educational or career training programs.

In addition, the SAFRA directs $10 billion of savings back to the U.S. Treasury toward deficit reduction.


{This shows that the provisions were indeed passed and became law. The glowing sales pitch above is pure propaganda as the real result was to end federal-guaranteed student loans and put the decision-makig power firmly in the hands of federal activists and thei friends.}

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: pdq
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 01:46 PM

Mark Kantrowitz / Publisher of FinAid and Fastweb

September 22, 2009

The US House of Representatives passed the Student Aid and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 2009 (SAFRA) on September 17, 2009 by a party-line vote of 253 to 171.

This legislation eliminates the federally-guaranteed student loan program and replaces it with 100% direct lending from the federal government. SAFRA uses the savings to fund an increase in the Pell Grant program among other initiatives. The US Senate is expected to consider its own version of the legislation within a few weeks.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated that ending the origination of federal education loans by banks and other financial institutions would save the federal government $87 billion over the next ten years.

The education lenders countered with their own proposal, but the CBO scored it as saving $13 billion less. The Obama administration argues that the Direct Loan program saves the government money by eliminating the middleman. However, much of the savings comes from the federal government's lower cost of funds.

From a practical perspective, most students will not notice much of a difference between the Direct Loan and federally-guaranteed student loan programs. Money is fungible — it's still green whether it comes from a bank or from the US Department of Education.

The Direct Loan program has a lower interest rate on the PLUS loan program (7.9% versus 8.5%) due to a legislative drafting error that was never corrected. PLUS loan approval rates are also higher in the Direct Loan program. Customer service is a bit better during the loan origination process in the Direct Loan program, but a bit worse during repayment.

However, the US Department of Education has awarded contracts to four of the largest education lenders to service loans in the Direct Loan program. The SAFRA legislation has no impact on existing student loans or borrowers who have already graduated.

About half of the savings will be used to index the maximum Pell Grant to the inflation rate plus 1%. It would increase to $5,550 in 2010-2011 and likely reach $6,900 by 2019-2020. However, it does not turn the Pell Grant into a true entitlement program. Congress could still cut Pell Grant funding during the annual budget appropriations process as it did in 2008.

The legislation also eliminates all of the asset questions and many of the untaxed income questions on the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA), cutting about a page from the six-page form. This will eliminate any penalty for savings in the federal need analysis formula, so there will no longer be any disincentive to saving for college.

SAFRA includes several provisions relating to student loans. The interest rate on subsidized Stafford loans for undergraduate students will switch to a variable rate capped at 6.8% starting on July 1, 2012. Otherwise the interest rate would have increased from 3.4% to 6.8% on that date, a big jump.

Annual funding for the Perkins Loan program would increase four-fold from $1.5 billion to $6.0 billion a year. While the new Perkins loan would no longer have subsidized interest, the interest rate would remain at 5.0%. Students at many more colleges would become eligible for the Perkins loan.

The new College Access Challenge Grant program would be focused on increasing enrollment, persistence and completion rates. It would fund financial literacy programs and make it easier for students to transfer from 2-year colleges to 4-year colleges. There would also be a significant increase in funding for community colleges and minority institutions.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 01:12 PM

"That's both the funniest & most inane statement you've come up with in a long time, Sawz, & believe me, it has some tough competition. "

You can prove that by actually discussing the facts instead of using ad hominem attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 01:10 PM

Yes - there we are - The bill would come into effect in July 2012 ...

So I am sorry to be the one to tell you pdq but you are misinformed.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 01:08 PM

PDQ - I found a million websites atating that Obama "recommended" ending subsidized student loans - none that say he actually did it ...

Besides - this recommendatiion came about in feb 2011 (in august this was still not policy)

When did Prins make her comments?


I think you will find that she has missed nothing but is 100% on top of her game.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 12:41 PM

Let's hope not, Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 11:58 AM

Actually, there is a lot of consensus with OWS...

End the wars

Tax the rich

Get $$$$ out of politics...

Kill Citizen's United...

Bring back Glass-Steagall...

etc....

Now if ya'll want 200 page "white papers", forget it... That is not what we are about... That's just the current right wing's attack on the movement... Our conversation... Not yours... We won't get fooled again...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 11:14 AM

"The sad thing about it is that there is no concensus among them as to what to do and how to do it."

Sounds like they'd be naturals for government, pick a country.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 10:40 AM

I hope the folks that make up the OWS are more focussed than those camped out in the churcyard of St.Pauls Cathedral in London. A little investigation has shown that the assembly has attracted, apart from those concerned with questioning the financial world and anti-capitalists, a hotch-potch of others. Anti fox hunting group, street singers on about world peace, vegan cake makers, a few of the usual "rentamob", computer hackers, anti war and arms dealers, climate change scaremongers and no doubt some other miscellaneous mal-contents. The sad thing about it is that there is no concensus among them as to what to do and how to do it. They are no better informed or equipped than the politicians and financiers against whom they are venting their spleen.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: pdq
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 10:36 AM

Students want affordable education. Due to our current monetary policy of near zero-rate money, banks receive exceedingly cheap financing terms, which they have not bestowed upon their degree-seeking customers. ~ Naomi Prins, again

Sounds like she missed this one since Obama ended all federal-susidized student loans. All such money comes directly from the federal bureaucracy now and none is meaded out through private lenders.

Note that federal-subsidized loans are dead, not federal student loans which are going strong.

Oh, and there is at least $1 trillion in student loans outstanding that people have no intentions of paying back.

Some of that money is owed by members of Congress!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: pdq
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 10:10 AM

Homeowners want to keep their homes. To date, there have been about $1 billion of SEC mortgage-related "settlements" with Wall Street. They are negotiated absent requiring any admission of guilt, nor a dial-back of foreclosures or increase in refinancings to help borrowers. With $7 trillion of value lost from the housing market in the past few years, people understandably want to revise their economic profiles. ~ Maomi Prins

That is the lowest estimate I have heard. Some guess it is closer to a $17 trillion drop in the value just of residential real estate.

TARP bailout funds totaled about $770 billion, $420 billion of which was spent after Obama took office.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 10:04 AM

Do the math on the national debt:

Date               Debt

09/30/2010        $13,561,623,030,891.78
09/30/2000        $5,674,178,209,886.86
09/28/1990        $3,233,313,451,777.25
12/31/1980        $930,210,000,000.00
12/31/1970        $389,158,403,690.26
12/30/1960        $290,216,815,241.68
06/30/1950        $257,357,352,351.04
06/29/1940        $42,967,531,037.68
06/30/1930        $16,185,309,831.43
07/01/1920        $25,952,456,406.16
07/01/1910        $2,652,665,838.04
07/01/1900        $2,136,961,091.67
07/01/1890        $1,552,140,204.73
07/01/1880        $2,120,415,370.63
07/01/1870        $2,480,672,427.81
07/01/1860        $64,842,287.88
07/01/1850        $63,452,773.55
01/01/1840        $3,573,343.82
01/01/1830        $48,565,406.50
01/01/1820        $91,015,566.15
01/01/1810        $53,173,217.52
01/01/1800        $82,976,294.35

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 08:51 AM

FACT: The dollar amount of Obama's stimulus package was $700B, of which $300B went into "shovel ready" projects and $400B went into less stimulating tax cuts...

MYTHOLOGY: "Together they took about 25 trillion dollars"

SUMMATION: The above poster is part of the ObamaHateBrigade and rather than use facts just makes up stuff??? I mean, why not $100T, songwronger??? No, make it $10G (as in gazillion)...

Now, I ain't exactly happy with Obama but the mythology of the right wing is absolutely astounding and imaginative...

But there is a nugget of truth in there and that is the banks have created several "products" (what a strange word???) that they use to siphon cash out of their corrupt banking practices... Derivatives and credit default swaps should be illegal... This is theft... This is why banks aren't making those loans to small businesses... They are too busy figuring out how to game their own selves??? Go figure???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 01:19 AM

. . . little Mary Sunshine. . . .

Why don't we just give up, eh?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 11:52 PM

No, no, no. Bush had his "bailout." And it was so good that Obama got sloppy seconds with his "stimulus." Together they took about 25 trillion dollars from American taxpayers with that one-two. And Obama got greedy just recently and tried to dip in again with his "jobs program," but people saw it for the third bailout it really was and rejected it.

The real fun will begin when the Bank of America claims U.S. taxpayers are responsible for their 75 trillion worth of derivatives debt. Politicians will test the waters to see if they can get away with it, and if they can, they'll saddle us with that. And Obama will say Bush made him do it, or the Tea Party or something like that, and diehard Democrats will support him.

Meanwhile, Democrats aren't working to get that monster out of office. They're being "politically active" with the OWS protests. Makes me want to cry. Obama the mass murderer is going to slither into another nomination.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 11:27 PM

"And did Bush Jr. make Obama run up a 15 trillion dollar taxpayer tab with his stimulus package?"

Bush ran up half that tab, SS.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 10:23 PM

Bill Clinton was a Nixon Republican... I wouldn't have voted for him as dog catcher... I was pounding doors for Green Party...

So what???

The reality is that the FAT CATS on Wall St. absconded with a $14T of someone else's money...

Here's where I kinda have to part from Nomi's analysis... TARP had a dollar amount... TARP is over... Why do we make this the government's fault??? I mean, the banks are stealin' from everyone they can... And the Tea Party Republicans said that's fine with them... We don't need Washington meddling in our affairs...

And that's the way it is...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 10:02 PM

Hey, I'm in agreement with the 99% folks. There has to be change. Unfortunately it's pretty late in the game, and the people who've taken the field are being run around in circles. The 1% has fled, and now they're stirring up the left-behinds. The 99% COULD take control of the situation and effect change, but that won't happen as long as they allow themselves to be directed by their current corps of handlers. The elite will suck all the energy out of OWS the way they sucked money out of the banks. OWS needs unified, strong demands. The longer the movement goes without them, the less effective it will be.

Clinton and Glass-Steagall. So Reagan made him repeal it? Jeez. Learn something new every day. I missed the photo of Reagan holding the gun to his head. And what else? Oh, NAFTA. Did Bush make Clinton sign that? And did Bush Jr. make Obama run up a 15 trillion dollar taxpayer tab with his stimulus package? So it's Republicans that make Democrats do all these things? Good to know.

Spoiler alert: the Democratic and Republican presidents have been working together to destroy America's middle class, and at the end of the show millions of extras are sitting on the curbs in front of their seized homes and wailing about Republicans and racism. A downer ending. I'd rewrite it if I could.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 09:44 PM

Nomi Prins writes about the OWS movement:

The protesters behind Occupy Wall Street and their supporters, of which I am one, share a gut feeling of utter disgust, rage and frustration at the havoc our nation's policies, from Washington to Wall Street, have wreaked not only on this current economy, but on hope of a more stable, widespread financial security for the future.

As such, the manifesto released by Occupy Wall Street is actually fairly complete, more so than its detractors would have people believe. The list includes requirements that others and I have argued for years, such as bringing back Glass-Steagall (i.e., breaking up the banks) and detaching corporate money and its influence from the political system.

More than at any other time in our nation's history, bipartisan political leaders, regulatory bodies and quasi-private entities, like the Federal Reserve, have subsidized an unstable, risk-laden, abusive and sometimes criminal banking system, which, through its unchecked practices, has catalyzed what I consider another Great Depression that will last for years.

Beyond the explicit demands and solutions of the manifesto, many of which exist at a level more complex than the dozens of different slogans paraded through streets nationwide, there are more visceral needs at a basic human level that prompted people to demonstrate.

First and foremost, protesters want accountability from Wall Street ("They got bailed out, we got sold out.") They seek punishment for people who committed economic crimes against the population, rather than indignant political gamesmanship that produces no result.

("From New York to L.A., Make the Wall Street Bankers Pay.") People get hauled into jail for minor drug infractions, and yet major fraud and market and securities manipulation remain rampant and systemic.

Protesters want jobs and the financial security that comes with them.

As in countries like Greece, Spain, Ireland and Egypt, more than 25% of the youth in this country are unemployed - and that number is growing.

Add that to the 16% to 17% of underemployed individuals, and it's no wonder that desperation has reached this visible point.

I wrote in this publication as the demonstrations in Cairo were reaching their peak that they were more about economic desperation than desire for political or leadership change. If people can't afford to eat or protect themselves financially, they revolt - there's nothing left to lose at that point.

Students want affordable education. Due to our current monetary policy of near zero-rate money, banks receive exceedingly cheap financing terms, which they have not bestowed upon their degree-seeking customers.

Homeowners want to keep their homes. To date, there have been about $1 billion of SEC mortgage-related "settlements" with Wall Street. They are negotiated absent requiring any admission of guilt, nor a dial-back of foreclosures or increase in refinancings to help borrowers. With $7 trillion of value lost from the housing market in the past few years, people understandably want to revise their economic profiles.

The biggest banks make that nearly impossible, despite the multitrillion-dollar largesse received from the government in their darkest hours.

Finally, protesters want fairer distribution of wealth and taxes.

They don't want cutbacks to social/economic programs, or for public service or private sector jobs to pay for federal generosity to a Wall Street comprising banks that are not just too big to fail, but bigger than they were before their subsidies and bailouts were initiated a few years ago. ("They Say Cut Back, We Say Fight Back")

In other words, the protesters may be learning from each other as they go along - and are all there for different reasons, with different degrees of knowledge and understanding of how to reach the goals they seek and even the complexity of the span of demands that exist and may grow. And that's just fine.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:53 PM

Okay, now I've at least skimmed thru Nomi Prins writings and other than being a complete and total fox, she has it figured out...

I have written here on other threads the BS games that Wall Street plays to extract real cash out for their guys... I have compared "credit default swaps" to a bunch of rich guys sitting around a poker table playing with real people's money and another bunch of rich guys behind them with side bets and no matter who wins or loses, real money is "extracted" out of our economy that was earned by working people and buried in rich people's backyards...

This is the problem... Be it "derivatives" or "credit default swaps" it doesn't matter... These are ballgames that Wall Street crooks use to extract cash out of our economy... That money can no longer be used to be spent and therefore go from hand to hand and that is what GNP is all about... Dollars have to move... The rich have taken trillions out of circulation... Doesn't take a PhD in economics to tell ya' that that ain't good for the economy...

I mean, let's get real here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:14 PM

Hey, ya'll... Just got home from another day of driving the P-Vine to doctors appointments and still have things to do this evening other than pudder stuff so it may not be until tomorrow before I get to Nomi Prins but I will...

I do find it typically Sawz to twist shit into a shit pretzel with Nazis... That takes the kind of twisting that would have us believe that the Jews were responsible for the Holocaust but that what Sawz does... ((((yawn)))

Glad that others are seeing right thru Songwronger's wrong song... Wrong as wrong can be... What next??? The OWS responsible for the kidnapping of the Linburg baby??? I mean, these tin-foilers are just downright unbelievable in the utter horse poo that that are willing ti ingest and spit out as "facts"???

More later...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 06:58 PM

That depends on what you're planning to do with them. It can endanger your chances of being elected, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 06:11 PM

Brains are superfluous and actually detrimental in present the present day U.S. of A.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:50 PM

Ditto that. The gal's got brains and guts.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:29 PM

Don, You won't regret it - she knows not only whodunnit and where the bodies are buried, but how it was done and the motive.

In addition, there is no better or more experienced or more qualified economist or finacier on the planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:25 PM

Interesting,

In my last post I pointed out that"redistribution of wealth" is not on the OWS agenda.


In the very next post, pdq walks right on by and starts explaining what the problem with redistributing the wealth is ...


... Talk about straw men ... the right wing is building straw godzillas ...

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:39 PM

They came FIRST for the Communists.....but "liberals" hate Communists!!.......Go figure! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:29 PM

It just occurred to me, Sawzaw, that American Nazis are opposed to cannibalism, drunk driving, and child rape.

So am I.

And they like fresh corn on the cob.

So do I!

Does this put me in solidarity with American Nazis? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:26 PM

Do not question the facts. You are ill equipped for that.

That's both the funniest & most inane statement you've come up with in a long time, Sawz, & believe me, it has some tough competition.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:23 PM

Lox, thanks for the reference to Nomi Prins. I Googled the name, quickly scanned a couple of web sites (brief note on Wikipedia, then her own site, and a quick glance at a couple of others).

As Arnie said in that movie, "I'll be back!!"

It looks like this lady knows, not only where all the bodies are buried, but who dunnit! And her book titles say "MUST READ!!"

Again, thanks for the referral! Bobert! LH! Check her out!

####

Judging from the tone of the last few posts by Songwronger, pdq, and Sawzaw, the OWS movement must be getting to them a bit. Along with the barrage of Right Wing propaganda, I detect a distinct note that verges on frenzy!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:21 PM

Awright! LOL! I have a smile on my face for the first time today. Feels good.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: gnu
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:15 PM

Felonious Munk's commentary on the "crisis"

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:07 PM

Sawzaw - I don't doubt that the American Nazi Party or any other neo-Nazi types would be pleased by massive social unrest and anger at bankers, and I don't doubt that they would hope to take advantage of it in some way....

But so what? That is no reflection on the OWS movement itself. You don't become "evil" yourself just because someone else reacts favorably to a situation which might prove politically advantageous to them in some way if they can turn it to their advantage.

What is your point? That Nazis are out to get Jews and are on a racial superiority trip? I think we already knew that.

You seem to be just as upset with the bankers as the protestors are. What would you like to do about it?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 01:59 PM

I meant the remarks penned by the Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 01:35 PM

GF has nothing but personal attacks to offer.

They illustrate his personality and his thought processes perfectly.

Do not question the facts. You are ill equipped for that. Instead attack the person in an attempt to bring the facts into question. Ritual defamation is easier than disproving facts.

---

"with all the dirty tricks they had played on Clinton that he was not going to repeal it" Clinton could have vetoed it. Why didn't he?

"Today, Congress voted to update the rules that have governed financial services since the Great Depression and replace them with a system for the 21st century,"then-Treasury Secretary Lawrence H. Summers said at the time. "This historic legislation will better enable American companies to compete in the new economy."

Lawrence Henry Summers is an American economist. He served as the 71st United States Secretary of the Treasury from 1999 to 2001 under President Bill Clinton. He was Director of the White House United States National Economic Council for President Barack Obama until November 2010. Summers is the Charles W. Eliot University Professor at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government. He is the 1993 recipient of the John Bates Clark Medal for his work in several fields of economics.

Summers also served as the 27th President of Harvard University from 2001 to 2006. Summers resigned as Harvard's president in the wake of a no-confidence vote by Harvard faculty that resulted in large part from Summers's conflict with Cornel West, financial conflict of interest questions regarding his relationship with Andrei Shleifer, and a 2005 speech in which he suggested that the under-representation of women in science and engineering could be due to a "different availability of aptitude at the high end," and less to patterns of discrimination and socialization.

Summers has also been criticized for the economic policies he advocated as Treasury Secretary and in later writings. In 2009, he was tapped by President Obama to be the director of the White House National Economic Council.


Them Harvard guys know their shit alright.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 01:06 PM

Sawz hasn't had & doesn't need a frontal lobotomy. He comes by his stupidity naturally. As for the rotgut, I dumnno.

There is a lot of truth in that statement.

But there's a lot more bullshit, PeeDee. Marxist? Please.

The "cause" of the "depression" was de-regulation of financial institutions, repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act, massive tax cuts and Reaganomics. Lets give credit where credit is due, eh?

They also lost their ticket to the Promised Land.

Ah, but they never HAD a ticket to the promised land, only the Horatio Alger delusion..

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 11:24 AM

It always amazes me what a frontal lobotomy and a quart of hard liquor can inspire people to write.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 11:07 AM

Bobert is in solidarity with the American Nazi Party:

ANP Report for October 16, 2011

Racial Comrades: I am going to address the issue of this "Occupy Wall Street" fervor that has been sweeping the land like a breath of cleansing air!

THE NATIVES ARE GETTING RESTLESS, AND ZOG FEARS IT MIGHT HAVE A POPULAR UPRISING ON ITS HANDS - finally!

This issue is TAYLOR MADE for National Socialists, as well as WN who are serious about DOING SOMETHING - MORE - than shouting "racial slurs" and acting like "poster boys of hate" loons.

After all - JUST WHO - are the WALL STREET BANKERS? The vast majority are JEWS - and the others are SPIRITUAL JEW materialists, who would sell their own mother's gold teeth for a PROFIT. And MORE and MORE people are AWARE of this truth, are not only NOT afraid to TALK ABOUT IT - they're shouting it on WALL STREET!

I urgently URGE all of you to TAKE PART and JOIN IN when these protests hit your neck of the woods. Produce some flyers EXPLAINING the "JEW BANKER" influence - DON'T wear anything marking you as an "evil racist" - and GET OUT THERE and SPREAD the WORD! Put as a "contact point" on your literature, our www.ANP14.com address - it won't immediately "scare off" some of these scaredy-cats for even looking at our FACTS - for FACTS they ARE!

If you are unable to produce your own leaflets - check out the "support" section of our website - there are a LOT of good flyers there to utilize.

This issue reminds me a LOT of the "GASOLINE SHORTAGE" of the 1970's - where National Socialists found a HUGE receptive audience, for our viewpoints - per the JEWISH CONTROL of OUR GOVERNMENT and its insane support for Zionist Israel, and the Arab Oil Boycott that hit OUR people so hard.

As I have so often in the past spoke on - the White Working Class - is going PAST, the BOILING POINT, and is quickly reaching ULTIMATE EXPLOSION! THEY want ANSWERS! THEY want RESULTS! All of which this evil corrupt, decadent JUDEO-CAPITALIST SYSTEM is incapable of giving them. WHY? Because its BOUGHT and SOLD to the CORPORATE ELITISTS who are fast turning America into a "South American" style - THIRD WORLD WAGE-SLAVE STATE - ( complete with MILLIONS of BROWN illegal aliens willing to ACCEPT YOUR JOB for LOW WAGES and NO BENEFITS ) where, currently 3% of the population CONTROL 85% of the nation's WEALTH! And the "GREAT DIVIDE" is GROWING each and every year that passes.

WE - the WHITE WORKING CLASS - have been LIED TO and totally DECIEVED - just the other day, the system APPROVED THREE MORE so-called "Free-Trade" deals. ALL of which mean that MORE JOBS are going to be SENT OVERSEAS - YOUR JOBS! Don't you CARE? Enough to DO SOMETHING?

NOW is the TIME! GET INVOLVED! IT'S YOUR FUTURE THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

YOU can DO - ONE of TWO THINGS - SUBMIT to the uncaring GREED of these CORORATE, WALL STREET THUGS and their SOCK-PUPPETS in GOVERNMENT. OR, - YOU can RESIST! I CHOOSE RESISTANCE for MY FAMILY and MYSELF!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: pdq
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 10:50 AM

"...Residential property owners...lost about 15 billion dollars..." ~ me

Of course, that should be 15 trillion dollars. The figure is so staggering that my brain seems to have rejected it as unreasonable.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 10:45 AM

"Why real estate market was pushed to absurd highs is really the question, not the fact that it eventually collapsed."

It's certainly one of the questions, pdq. There's only so many millions a fifty-thousand dollar house can be sold for. Of course if it's repossessed lotsa times, the money will roll in until it doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: pdq
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 10:40 AM

"...The saddest thing in the OWS movement is the Marxist talk about redistribution of wealth. There is no wealth in America. Not significant wealth. The wealthy have moved their money overseas. Any redistribution will be of middle-class money." ~ Songwronger

There is a lot of truth in that statement.

The cause of he current Depression was the huge drop in residential house values.

Why real estate market was pushed to absurd highs is really the question, not the fact that it eventually collapsed.

Residential property owners, most of whom are here in the U. S., lost about 15 billion dollars in value. They also lost their ticket to the Promised Land. The famous Middle Class, if not dead, is on life support.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 09:29 AM

PS - noone is talking about rediistribuitiing weath.

This is fiction.

They are talking about a fair wage - so you don't have to work 3 jobs and never see your kids just so you can pay off the medical bills.

They are talking about preventing corporate crime from being committed.



Don, LH and Bobert,


If you want to learn something really useful about the Banks, check out Nomi Prins. Take your tiime doing it and you won't regret it.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 09:28 AM

Anyone who thinks that OWS is being controlled by the right wing ain't going to listen to any logic, Lox...

I mean, the guy is a tin-foiler...

B~