BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: stevetheORC
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 11:50 AM

Hi I am one of the new ones, I might not be a musician but I do enjoy good music no matter what it be, I also enjoy the humor that is to be found on this site and some of the topics make you stop and think.
It might not be as it once was but suerly it is better for something to evolve rather than stagnate!!!
And yes I can be very annoying and irevrent after all I am a Bloody Orc:-0

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 11:37 AM

I have yet to encounter anyone in this forum who doesn't get snide and negative, regardless of the identity label on their posts. To suggest that is only the province of anon guests seems silly to me.

It also doesn't take into account what I feel has been a regular aspect of life in Mudcat--members posting as anon guests when they want to go negative, but don't want to be held accountable for it.

I've always maintained that most anyone with a mind to, can easily suss out my posts, and the posts of a couple of other "communication friendly" anon guests who post regularly, when they read them. From what I can tell, there are 3-4 of us currently inhabiting the forum, though we do tend to come and go a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Naemanson
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 11:20 AM

I agree, Amos. I have seen plenty of legitimate, fun posts from anonymous guests. And plenty of people who appreciate posts from the anonymous guests.

"...obsession with identities in Mudcat..." I am Naemanson. But I have news for you. That isn't my real name. There are a few Mudcatters who know me personally. For them I have a real identity. There are many who do not know me. For them I am just another voice typing in the wind. No one has asked me to reveal myself. Am I male or female, straight or gay, tall or short, heavy or thin, young or old, performer or audience? Some know and some don't. Do I have identity on the Mudcat? I don't know and don't care.

Oh and I joined in late 2000, just abut the time that moineau nordique says the Mudcat went downhill. I do not take responsibility for that. [Grin]

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 10:52 AM

Well, there's nothing about Mudcat to make people obsessed with identities -- I think you're projecting, or associating a wide-spread human flaw with one locale. I repeat -- I have never seen a shot fired at a Guest who was genuinely and civilly seeking to express a viewpoint and communicate. It seems to me that 99 per cent of any wrath aimed at Guests has been because of the quality of their communication.

If you were to review a listing of all posts for which the name was merely "Guest" only, I think you would find that over 80% of them could be characterized as anti-communication -- the kind of thing designed solely to make others wrong, upset people, generalize negative nounlessness and so on.

You tend to be an exception in that although you do get snide and negative from time to time, you also have something to say. I even fancy I can usually tell which of Those Who Shall Not Name Themselves I am speaking to, although that could just be delusory on my part.

Personally, I feel that communicating from namelessness is a discourtesy, like graffiti on the subways.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 10:44 AM

I disagree Amos. I think there is an obsession with identities in Mudcat--pseudonymous as well as anonymous, ancestral identity (have a look into "What is a Gael" or "Who Are You"), and nationalist identity in this forum. While the ancestral and nationalist identity issues are common in all folk forums, the pseuonymous and anonymous identity issues that have caused the biggest battles in Mudcat over the years hasn't been merely the province of disingenuous anonymous posters. Not by a long shot.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Chip2447
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 09:18 PM

My first post as a memeber was 13Mar01, does that make me a veteran? Prolly not, although I had lurked, dropping in on occassion for probably 18 months before that.
    It looks like I have made some 365 posts to date, that averages better than 1 every 2 days, (that really surprises me) mostly to BS, FICTION, OR MUDCAT TAVERNS Threads. Does that qualify me as veteran? NAH dont tink so.
    Hellsbells, I can't compare musically with probablly 95%(giving myself the benefit of the doubt here)of the gifted musicians and songwriters that we have here at the Cat.
    I can't contribute musically, certainly not historically, even rarer still insightful, thought provoking words. Maybe I can instill a little humour from time to time.
    What drew me here in the first place would draw me here today, Knowledge, humour, friendship, though I've never met any of you, nor have I seemed to have stricken up those lifelong and life changing friendships that some of you speak of. I have found a certain commradrie amonst you folks, and would love to f2f most of of you at some point in time.
    Veteran or newbie it doesn't matter, I'm here, until my considerable curiousty is sated or time and tide draw me elsewhere.

Chip2447(who usually tries to inject something in the parenthises)

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 09:12 PM

Guest, I feel, and have always said, that your point is erroneous. There is no battle between named members and guests as such. There is always a battle between the straightforward and the underhanded, between those who wish to converse with their best minds and those who wish to merely upset or decry or drag down, and that battle is reflected here. It happens that, more often than not, those who are so motivated are also unwilling to use even a virtual identity. Instead they use anonymity so they don't have to see themselves later.

So the two issues get mixed up, I think, but the real battle is not between members and guests -- it is between people who seek to communicate (bring about some degree of unferstanding, exchange viewpoints) and those who really want to undermine or destroy communication.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: bbc
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 09:07 PM

I can relate to a lot of what Jeri said in her 1st post. There was a group of us who were getting past an interest in just the music & wanting to know the people behind the music. Then, catspaw had his medical emergency & we found ourselves checking in each day, several times a day, holding our collective breath, waiting to see if he was alive or dead. We cried; we sent prayers & music & cards & money; we sent ourselves. Yup, spaw & others became real people to us who we cared about. We did have some wonderful in-person gatherings & developed friendships that I expect to last a lifetime. I haven't made any friends on Mudcat recently. I wonder--new folks--are you having experiences like we did & making solid friendships on the current Mudcat? I won't leave, because of what I've found here, but I doubt that I'd find enough as a newcomer to cause me to stay.

best,

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 06:59 PM

Just hit being for 6 yrs. I lurk more than I used to & I post less. I'm glad I didn't just get here, I'd be overwhelmed with the people, the place, the music, blah, blah, woof, woof. Of coures I'd be hooked. Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 04:16 PM

The point is McGrath, there wasn't this bullshit member vs guest perpetual warfare in the pre-membership days, which now dominates so much of the conversation, and fuels the idiotic flamewars here.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 04:10 PM

And that was me just now.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 04:08 PM

"...one didn't even have to be a member.

You still don't - the only thing, when you sign in as GUEST, as I did just now, there's no way anyone can be sure it's you or not, since anyone can post using that label.

Before the GUEST option was introduced it was possible to do that with an ordinary name, and that's why it was introduced.

Yes, the Mudcat changes - but then we change as well, and when people find they don't like it here as much as they used to, it can be the latter as much as the former that is at the root of it.

You lose some of the pleasures of novelty, and in their place you get the pleasures of familiarity, and they aren't the same. We're no different from any folk club in that way - and like a folk club we also have the renewed pleasures of novelty from newcomers, and the renewed pleasures of familiarity when an old friend drops in again after being absent too long.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: moineau nordique
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 03:49 PM

No, I'd be off like a new bride's nightie. In 1997, it was a great place, one didn't even have to be a member. Lots of music and humour and humanity. This lasted IMHO until around the Fall of 2000. There are so many wonderful memories. The 1999 FSGW/Mudcat gathering was magical. Annap's second gathering was magical (didn't attend the first). Friendships made went to the core. Mudcat Radio every Tuesday night. The first HearMe sessions. It was like being part of a large extended family. I faux pas'd badly and lost my Mudcat family, however, the magical memories will stay will me forever.

Mudcat is not the same and it has not evolved into something better, but I suppose that is part of the many chances one takes in life. I drop in about once a month, just to see if any of my old friends are posting anything good. Rarely do I see them.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 03:32 AM

Well, in a sense it has. When I retired 12 months ago and didn't have a desktop permanently open to the web any longer, I only logged on from the public library or from relatives' PCs, maybe once a fortnight. I restricted myself to reading significant threads, the health of cyberfriends and items I was interested in, like the arrangements for the Stoney Stratford gig & hardly posted at all. Since August when I changed my PC and got hooked up to the I no longer feel the need to read every thread. I can tell from experience the ones that will annoy me so I don't open them.
I've continued to enjoy the humour in the Tavern threads and have benefitted through PMs of the wisdom and kindness of fellow 'catters.
As we have grown in membership the number of threads daily has increased so I probably miss some things by scrolling quickly down for a few to open but there is still enough useful information, humour and good will to outweight the dross, which I don't feel the need to read (I miss Peter T's flights of literary fancy, though!
RtS
(but then, what do I know?)

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Alice
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 08:59 PM

The same thing that hooked me in 1997 would hook me today - the database of lyrics and the information about songs. The difference is that I used to open every thread with anticipation. Now I avoid many threads and open some with dread of what they may turn out to be.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: GUEST,Pat Cooksey.
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 08:37 PM

I've only been around a short time but yes I would hook in today, wish I'd discovered Mudcat earlier, a great resouce, cogratulation
to all concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: UB Ed
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 02:19 PM

Sure, although the political discussions will no longer see me.

Regardless of differences, this is a global community of (predominantly) musicians, and sometimes I have a question! Its nice to have a place to go to discuss.

Ed

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Naemanson
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:25 PM

My status as a veteran does not affect any part of my life these days. And I generally ignore the political threads. So, the answer would be yes, Mudcat would still hook me today. There are plenty of fun threads, music or otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:59 AM

Ah, Gervase, you do have a way with words!:>)

Maybe we should institute a "think twice-post once" filter! If only there were some way to make it mandatory.... For my part, as a frequent offender in political and BS threads, I still find the gleaning to be worth the time spent. But partly that is not so much the individual content of the posts, but the rather complimentary impressions I create of the people behind them! :>)




A

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Gervase
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:48 AM

Maybe not.
I first stumbled across the DT in the old Xerox days, and browsed the forum as a lurker for some time when Max first got it up and running before jumping in with my own fatuities a few years back.
Now, though, it's all bit crowded and getting increasinly hard to find a good thread for all the wittering (I'm sure Hull is a splendid place, but is it something in the water/beer that gives its residents the cyber equivalent of Tourette's?)
Not that I'm Hullist or anything, but it does remind me of the earlier days of the WWW when the first AOL users came online and pissed off the academics with their muddy footprints and knackered pick-ups littering the information superhighway. I suppose it's all part of the democratisation of cyberspace, but I do sometimes crave a smaller, quieter world without the shouted puns, the custard pies and the drunken drivelling. I can do all that in the privacy of my own home, for heaven's sake!
As for the rest of the content; aside from the PEL issue and the oh-so-predictable jerking of the knee at post 11/9/01 trolls, most of the arguments, jokes and observations seem have been made before.
I still come browsing back here every few days, but the intimacy, erudition and eloquence of the 'Cat isn't what it used to be. If the whole thing were to fall over or Max and the clones were to be carried off by aliens I can't say the quality of my life would suffer unduly.
So, in conclusion, there's probably nothing wrong with the Mudcat; it's merely that I've become an old fart.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Genie
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 05:15 PM

Gotta admit I haven't read everyone's posts yet (though I've "traced" the thread so I can catch up later).

I feel about Mudcat sort of the same way I feel about Cable TV: A lot of the options (threads, shows) don't interest me, but I don't have enough time even to begin to take advantage of the ones whose titles sound of interest -- and in spite of that, I'm spending WAY TO MUCH TIME with it, anyway!

I did spend more time on Mudcat initially, especially on BS threads, than I do now, but, like Little Hawk, I gotta get a life. I will still support MUDCAT financially, by proselitizing and publicizing, and by participating, because it's a rich source for info about music and because there are good folks to rub virtual elbows with.

Perhaps the banter isn't as stimulating as it once was (when it was a smaller clique?), but, again, I don't need to spend more time bantering.

In fact, would some of you folks try to be a little LESS clever, controversial, funny, etc? I need to get some work done.

¤;-D

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 02:39 PM

It doesn't take long to be an old-timer here.

The truth is everybody is a newcomer in terms of the kind of time we have iut in the wider (or is it narrower) world. All this is just teething troubles. Every time a new tooth breaks through it starts again.

There are more of us around than there were a few years ago, and more people who have been around a bit longer than others, and that's one source of aggro, because the same questions keep coming up, and some people seem to mind that.

And for people who've been posting a few years, some of the novelty has worn off, obviously, and the long-sought songs have been found.

But if I found it again tomorrow for the first time, I'd be whooping with joy, and I'm grateful every day for it. Songs and arguments, what a great combination. And help when anybody needs it, and people who understand what you're talking about when, for example you feel like talking about someone you admire who has just died, as has happened pretty often this year, and will happen more often as we grown older.

It goes round and round in circles, up and down, but that's the way wheels work, and that don't mean the old wagon isn't trundling along going God knows where, and I'm happy to come along for the ride.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 11:59 AM

The confusion over what kind of veterans we're talking about is instructive.

We now regard "protest songs" about the Vietnam war and Civil Rights in the US as an essential part of the folk music canon. But if you imagine this site being in existence 30-40 years ago, they are the issues about which we would have been having the equivalent of today's BS threads and flame wars about Bush's oil war, the US's new Stasi legislation, Northern Ireland etc. The songs about today's conflicts are only beginning to be written.

Until the Bushies came along, it seemed that all the protesting and singing back then had served a useful purpose, and that the US at least wouldn't go down the same route again. Now I'm just indignant and depressed, but if any of you in the US can do anything to influence the course of events by writing and singing the songs of the present era before it's too late, go out and do it. Just remember to include the innocent Iraquis in them, and don't wait until there have been another 50,000 of them killed: the body count for US casualties in Iraq is unlikely to reach such levels anyway.

Pardon my provocative use of crude language, but Iraquis are human too, just as all those dead slopes/gooks once were.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 11:21 AM

I spent months looking for stuff inthe DT before I got sucked in to the Forum. Eventually I had to ask for something that wasn't in the DT, and got to discussing the song and the actual historical events. And then I got this headache, and after the mists had cleared, ther was blood everywhere ... or was that another website? Any road up, I'd still get hooked today.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 01:41 AM

Yes.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 01:06 AM

I think that I'm still a newbie since I don't get included in some stuff (that is OK, though) but I suggest visiting Mudcat to any folkie I meet and am pleased when I see them post to or start a thread.

I am stunned, though, as I find MOST people I suggest the 'cat to have never heard of it!

I would come here no matter what! Yeah, sometimes stuff is dark and yes some of the posts are predictable but I get a real sense of a cyberspace musical community and all communities have people who have dark thoughts and some who are predictable. That's OK too.

CB

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 12:03 AM

I started hanging out here about three years ago. I didn't have a home computer, but I managed to sneak in regular visits from work for about a year. Then I quit my job about two years ago and was totally without Internet access for about a year and a half. When I finally got my own machine about six months ago, rejoining the Mudcat was one of the first things I did. I promptly began to wonder why. Things had definitely changed during the time I had been away. Everybody seemed to have lost their sense of humor. I saw someone suggest that another member be ignored because he tried to inject some humor into a discussion. I almost said, "Fuck it! I'll find someplace else to hang out.", but I didn't. I kept coming back because I knew that there were more people here with whom I have a common interest than I would ever find in any other forum.

Eventually, things did return to something more closely resembling what I had remembered. I guess the 'Cat was just goin' through a bad patch. However, if I had not had the benefit of having spent a fair amount of time here before - if I had not known what the Mudcat community was capable of being like - I probably would have not joined.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 10:45 PM

Attagirl, Mary!! Right on the old wavelength!!

Love ya,


A

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 09:08 PM

I wandered in here about 2+ years ago looking for lyrics to a song from the Gay Nineties. I found the song and more than a few others who enjoyed the same music. Since then I have met hundreds of people who love folk music and love to share what they know both in 3D and cyberspace.

To answer A Nonnie Nonnie's question - I would still stay although I am not a veteran. And I appreciate your asking. I often feel as if I take much more than I give here. In the past two years I haved learned countless numbers of "new" songs, some from the DT, most from other members and their associates.

When the BS wears thin, I spend less time here for a while. I don't doubt that my BS has caused a few to use the same coping method. I too visit the old threads, sometimes to get a dose of "ancient history" from the likes of Don Firth and Deckman, sometimes to re-read a bit of technical information that meant nothing to me a year ago. Every day my life is filled with music that I found on or through Mudcat. Yes, if I wandered in today, I would be hooked.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 07:52 PM

Catspaw Crisis: Dear Lurking Tom, I guess it was about May of '99 when I had one of those "the guy's a goner" experiences. It was the first time that reality had struck our cyber-village and people found that the place wasn't so cyber after all. It was another of those moments in the growth of this site but the first that brought people's real feelings to the surface. After that we began to meet each other more in 3D and the virtual became far more real. Since then even more real world things have come to us including losing members and their spouses and friends to death as well as a wee baby we had all been looking forward to "sharing."

But we've shared some mighty joyous times as well including births and marriages.............And the best thing no matter what has always been the support that comes from people here. I have found myself laughing with and crying for friends unmet, many of them I will probably never meet. The "Catspaw Crisis" moved us from a message board to a community, a real one.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 07:37 PM

Beauty!

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 07:33 PM

There once was a fair maiden named Carol

Whom the border had over a barrel

Till she met Jack the Sailor

A Newfoundland whaler

Now she shines in Canadian apparell


Decent, Eh?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 07:22 PM

Sure. Although when I first joined, there was a lot more of the kind of quirky fun that I particularly enjoy... limericks, and dry, ironic Canadian humour, etc.). I still find it to be the same kind of enriched cultural and intellectual environment that it was when I first encountered it. But overall, I think this site has improved considerably in many ways since I first joined.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 07:11 PM

Huh? I may live in a cold place (Canada), but I don't like 'em that much, per se...I like being in warm to hot places...like Cuba, Mexico, Trinidad...and they are the most not-lonely places I've seen yet.

But you're right, we be of one blood, ye and I. That's from Rudyard Kipling (Rikki Tikki Tavi), isn't it?

You are a great Soul, Amos.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 07:01 PM

And glad you do, LH. I for one likewise consider you a friend in spite of your bizarre obsessions with under-qualified movie actors, your terrible case of galloping philosophus, and your taste for cold, lonely remote corners of the wild. We be of one blood, ye and I:>)

A

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 06:35 PM

Mudcat probably (almost certainly) would not hook me in today.

BUT...........that is NOT because Mudcat has changed (and it has).

It is because I have changed. The chances of my being attracted to chat on another Internet forum are very, very small. I have more direct, tactile ways to engage in life than that.

Mudcat was my first experience of talking to many strangers (albeit strangers with certain common connections) over a computer. I became fascinated by the process, and by the variety of people and ideas involved, and so I became a regular on Mudcat. I got to like it.

I am not likely to repeat that experience on some other Internet forum. I am becoming less likely to do so all the time.

Mudcat, of course, has changed. But that is largely because society itself has changed...radically...and all of us have changed too, as a consequence.

These are dangerous times in the world. I have never seen them more dangerous. That is affecting all of us.

The things I considered important in the past have been considerably altered in my viewpoint. I don't consider most of them so important now. What I do consider important is actually consciously living, living harmoniously, and living in a way that is strongly connected with other people who have what I would term a spiritual focus. This has little or nothing to do with the more material considerations of life, as long as the basics are taken care of (enough food, shelter, clothing, useful work, good company, and genuine love, equality, and respect on all levels for those with whom one is living). The basics are all anyone needs in order to transform themselves into something better.

The only reason I still log on here is because I know many people here and I relate to them as my friends (whether or not we agree on politics). It's a community.

I am not about to criticize that community for NOT having stood still and changeless...while the rest of the world changed tremendously all around it.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: GUEST,Lurking Tom
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 05:46 PM

I hope I'm not rude in asking (as a relatively new lurker in the forum), but what exactly was "the Catspaw crisis"?

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 01:11 PM

Oh, well said, Don!! Thanks to you, too, for all you've added!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 01:07 PM

Assuming that the question is referring to veterans of Mudcat rather than veterans of the military. . . .

I've been messing around here off and on since late 1999. I have found Mudcat to be a tremendous resource in a whole variety of ways. I've found songs that I had been looking for and previously not finding, often in DT, but sometimes through links Mudcatters have provided. Through the many links people put here I've found a large number of other valuable and informative sites. I have become reacquainted with old friends, and I've made new friends, a few of whom I've actually met, but most I have not—so far. Some weeks ago, after swapping a few posts with alanabit, he sent me a copy of his excellent CD. Check him out HERE. And I just received a stack of fruit-colored CDs in the mail that I haven't had a chance to get at yet, but I'm looking forward to an orgy of listening—and stealing songs from everybody!!

Other neat things have happened as well. Because of some of the things I've posted, one of the Mudcatters who lives in Seattle has asked me to write occasional columns for a local folk music magazine. Posting stuff on Mudcat has also given me an opportunity to get some feedback on my major writing project (feedback from writers' groups is valuable as a writer, but when you get feedback from the kind of people you're writing for, that's priceless!).

I can get thoroughly immersed in the music threads, whether they be about songs, singers, history of folk music (recent or long-range), discussions of music theory or voice, instruments, techniques, etc., what's going on currently in the UK or other parts of the word, or just general BS about music. That's the meat and potatoes of this website and the main reason I'm here.

But I also enjoy some of the non-music BS threads. I always like to add to my repertoire of jokes, puns, bumper-stickers, and general nonsense. I've read movie and book reviews. I've learned a recipe for a "quick-and-dirty" latté that can be made with instant coffee. I've received a fairly good, comprehensive consumer report on root beer. I've read about differences between English English and American English vocabulary, grammar, and spelling by long-time speakers of each language. Lots of good stuff. I also enjoy and often get involved in political BS threads. I find that they are often very informative. Many people post links that allow me to check stuff out for myself, and this, in turn, gives me access to news sources other than just what comes urping out of the TV. Sometimes there's a lot of heat generated and I don't really think anyone is going to change anyone else's mind, but with a few exceptions, the discussions tend to be fairly civilized. And diving into the mêlée from time to time myself gives me an opportunity to keep my sword-arm limber.

Like any good party that's wide open to the public, there are a few people attending who whine and complain, bitch at the host for not providing even more free beer, occasionally try to piss in the punchbowl, and generally fail to realize that you can only get out of a party what you are willing to bring to it. But such is the human condition. All in all, the people here are a pretty darned good bunch. Yeah, I think that if I had just blundered in today, I would definitely hang around.

Great party, Max! Thanks!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:58 PM

Jeri: I've always thought that your postings were interesting and positive, and I've gained a lot from them. As for the "taste" of things changing through time, sometimes they really have, and sometimes, we're the ones who have changed. Like you, I wouldn't give up the wonder of the first "taste" of anything, but I try not to look back, except in appreciation. And, when someone thinks that they've tasted everything, it's time to check their pulse. You strike me as someone who is still ver live and open to new experiences.

As for our Brit friends, I've noticed often that when I go on Mudchat, even though it's a reasonable hour of the evening here, there are aonly a handufl of regulars from here... often, there are three Brits, Aussies, Danes or "others" in Mudchat for every colonial.
I enjoy that a lot. Sometimes the conversation doesn't draw me in because it's about local things happening in England. I'm sure the same thing happens sometimes with Brits when us colonials are talking about something going on over here. Not every thread was created for me (as far as I know.) Not every Mudchat conversation is for more entertainment, either.

And here's to the newer members of Mudcat... Jimmyt, Leadfingers, Sorcha,Bobert, Wilco, Songs2Play and all the rest. Some may have been in Mudcat longer than I realize, but they are still "new" in their attitude and a real pleasure in my life.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Glen Reid
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:58 PM

For the past 3 or 4 years, Rick F. has mentioned the virtues and the sense of community that is available on Mudcat. He also encouraged me to join and become a participant in the disscussions and shared info related to our craft, or whatever might be of interest.
Its been less than a year since I joined and for the most part its still a lot of fun to check in and see whats happening.Of course there,s a lot of stuff that is of no interest to me (politics and BS, for the most part) but the nice thing about this forum is...
Take what you want, and leave the rest!
I have met a lot of facinating and informative folks of every stripe and have learned a hell of a lot good stuff.
Most importantly I disscovered in Mudcat, an honest sense of family and compassion.
Like when Little John Cameron was sick, and sadly passed on, the outpouring of support, then genuine grief, was very evident in the posts that followed.
Or when Rick had his operation and was on the mend, the sheer number of "get wells" , was most touching, and I know, certainly gave him a big lift.
These are some of the reasons I continue to tune in and I am gratfull to Max,Dick,Joe and all of the other faceless people who obviously work hard to keep this thing happening.
Thankyou and all the best,
Glen

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Tinker
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:40 PM

Would Mudcat hook me today? Well, I'm still here and still hooked. Like many others I'm not an expert on much musically, but that's what keeps bringing me back. As a rather slow learner,I can pull out old guitar threads I didn't quite understand a couple years ago and pick up something new when I've got the time to play. The new cross reference really helps in this regard. It often points me to a thread I've missed.

I've made some amazing friends. Oh, and for all the tiffs, with mudcat as my introduction to the world of folk, I was actually surprised to find out that blues singers,and traditional ballad types, renfair musicians, and shanty singers didn't always share song circles and -- gasp even cabins together. I may not often post to serious threads, but, I'm lurking....

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: GUEST,Geordie
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:36 PM

I have been popping in and out of here for ages. And I find it a great place..I have learned so much and never cease to be amazed at the scope of expertise that is here. I learn a lot for many threads, ot just the musical ones.
   As for the so called"off topic" discussions, I don't mind them because is the thread dosen't interest me, I don't open it.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:34 PM

i doubt it

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:28 PM

"Somethings lost and somethings gained in living every day"
PP

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: MMario
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:24 PM

I imagine I would still end up here if I hadn't found it a long time ago.

And garg? you still are having problems distinguishing between the Digital Tradition and Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:23 PM

John Hardly, fie on your self deprecation!! I have seen your writing and it stands right along with anything the Cat has spawned, although I agree that PT and JE are capable of transcendant glories when they really start mixing it up. It is normal enough to be one's own worst critic, sure, but given that there are so many others anxious for the position, why not head for the high ground and be your own source of moral support and encouragement?!! Surely no-one is better qualified! :>)

A

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: GUEST,A. Nonnie-Nonnie
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:19 PM

Hello Artbrooks. No No no! I assure you I'm not one of our anon. flamers. The J-Lo clones know I've never planted a bomb (of the verbal kind) in my life, and like all clear-thinking folk here, I adore Max simply for existing. My mommie always told me to be polite to EVEYONE, so my couple of forays into annimoniminity have been primarily to throw out a topic that's obviously been on my mind, or simply therapeutic.

However, I have been shaken to my very core! It would appear that the only person of veteran status who agrees with me is the dreaded Gargoyle! THAT'll put you off your feed quicker than seeing Ned Beatty in his underwear! Or Burt Reynolds in your backyard with a hunting bow!

I'll behave.

A. Nonnie-nonnie

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: John Hardly
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:17 PM

I've been here (off and on) for 2.5 years. I've learned lots from the collective musical knowledge here (and learned whose knowledge of music is best ignored).

I learned rather early on that mine was a voice best checked at the door where technical musical information was concerned. My "Folk" music knowledge is about as old as my CD/LP collection -- lots of "folk rock" and everything recorded by Tony Rice, Tim O'Brien, NGR, NBB, songwriters from David Mallett to Carter/Grammer, Pettis, Booth, Wilcox, Gilbert, Mabus, Booth,etc..... but no Stanley Bros, no obscure Jim and Jesse or Big Mon LPs in my closet. I had little to offer but a chord chart here and there and lyric or two -- but most of those requests were for things that predate my experience.

My "creative writing" always falls down a deep well of disinterest here because.....well, when you have really good creative writers like jenEllen, Amos, LJ, PeterT, kat (sorry to leave others out -- I know it kinda hurts, but chalk it up to how little I read here any more, not the level of your writing!), one should approach the "submit" button with humility and trepidation. I have posted lots of this kind of thing (more "creative writing") on the 'Cat in the past year because -- response be damned, I got the wild idea in my head that, given what I thought was a community with strong intent on its long-term survival, this might be a good place to "store" some pieces I had written for another forum that had decided to clear out all its old files. Selfish li'l bastard, ain't I?

I learned that Mudcat is not a social club/outlet for me. I came in after the social structure of what passes for a community here was set. Whatever contributionn I may have been capable of adding to the mix (socially) was already ably handled. Took a while and a few hurt feelings (me being overly sensitive) to finally grasp that.

Like others, I am sometimes disappointed at just how frighteningly small the pool of contributors has become -- not just here, but in internet forums. I fear they are fast becoming the domain of a class of more educated, but socially inhibited, or otherwise limited missfits. Kind of a high-tech Loserville.

So, yes, I'd probably still log on.....but I'd just like to think that I could do so with the lessons already learned.....not starting all over.

.....it's mighty hard to just stay away *BG*

Subject: RE: BS: Veterans Would Mudcat hook you in today?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 11:35 AM

Jerry, "And another thing I can't stand" - there have been quite a few of those and I think they probably total over a thousand posts!

As for my version of War & Peace up there, I was trying to stick to my own feelings about things and not just bitch about the things. More "I feel" than "Mudcat is."   The jist of it is, I can't say how I'd feel if I came here as a newbie, just like I can't imagine what I'd think of cheese if I only tasted it for the first time today. I can tell you that I miss the new taste of cheese and how it used to be a lot less processed and a lot stinkier than it is today.

Sometimes I wonder if I'd enjoy a complete memory wipe and go back to see everything in life with unjaded eyes. Then I wake up and remember all the good experiences with 'everything in life' and resolve to try to find something new to get interested in. There's always something new and it may just be that willingness to seek it that's missing.