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Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 13 Jan 12 - 10:40 AM "Wikipedia states:- "The tune is that of an old Welsh air, first found in a musical manuscript by Welsh harpist John Parry Ddall (c. 1710–1782), but undoubtedly much older than that." I believe 'dhall' means 'blind,' and the finder was John Parry. I have a book of his music, and the first sentence says, "It is thought that John Parry was born in 1710..." Parry's tune is 'Nos Galan,' the minor tune. I have played a lot of early music, and I don't think you can claim that it is 'undoubtedly much older than that.' I have no trouble thinking it an 18th-C piece. The Welsh harper Robin Huw Bowen publishes pocket tune books dedicated to harpers of yore, and I got the book from him. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Stewart Date: 12 Jan 12 - 03:07 PM The Piper Through The Meadow Straying A very nice version of this tune, followed by Galtee Hunt From the Fiddler's Companion PIPER THROUGH THE MEADOW STRAYING, THE. Irish, Hornpipe or Set Dance. G Major. Standard. AAB (Joyce): AB (O'Neill). The melody appears in O'Farrell's c. 1800 publications Collection of National Music for the Union Pipes and Pocket Companion for the Irish or Union Pipes (c. 1811). Bruce Olson finds what is probably the same tune as a duet called "A piper on the meadows straying" in the ballad opera Zorinski (1795) {music selected and composed by Dr. Samuel Arnold} and that the song with music was published the following year in Walker's Hibernian Magazine. A verse (printed in Charms of Melody, Dublin, c. 1795-1810) begins: *** A piper on the meadows straying, Met a simple maid a-maying. *** Many people will recognize the similarity between sections of the 'B' part of the tune and the popular Christmas carol "Deck the Halls." Learned by Joyce as a child in Co. Limerick, c. 1840. Joyce (Old Irish Folk Music and Song), 1909; No. 131, pgs. 66-67. O'Neill (1915 ed.), 1987; No. 70, pg. 43. Chieftains - "Bells of Dublin" (appears as last tune of "The Wren! The Wren!" medley). Cheers, S. in Seattle |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST Date: 12 Jan 12 - 02:29 PM At last. In John Hullah's "The Song Book" 1884, there is a section on Welsh songs. They are ALL taken from John Thomas's book "Welsh Melodies", including on page 325 "Deck the Hall with Boughs of Holly". For every song in the Welsh section it says after the song "Words (translated from Talhaiarn) by Oliphant". Since it is not a translation, the words are Thomas Oliphant's, written to an old Welsh tune. Thomas Oliphant was born in Scotland in 1799, died in (London) England in 1872. Which volume of "Welsh Melodies" I will find out and let you know. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,Roddy Date: 27 Dec 11 - 09:08 PM Does anyone have access to "Welsh Melodies"? There are four volumes to "Welsh Melodies". The first two were published in 1862, the third in 1870, fourth 1874. It would be good to know whether or not it is published there. Thomas Oliphant wrote his own version of lyrics to many Welsh and German songs. Carolina Oliphant (Lady Nairne) did exactly the same thing except she to Scottish songs (which she did not need to translate). Her grandfather and Thomas's great grandmother were siblings. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 22 Dec 11 - 10:56 AM Thanks for the link, Genie. People, it's time to stop talking about the song, and get out your instruments and play it. For example, it's great on dulcimer. I know because I just played it for friends at a dinner party yesterday. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Mo the caller Date: 22 Dec 11 - 10:29 AM I just put Liz's first verse into an online translator and got the refrain Balloons la la la la.... |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Genie Date: 22 Dec 11 - 01:38 AM Nos Galen / Deck the Halls video |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Old Grizzly Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:31 PM Aha! - there was an Oliphant in the room all along Sounds great played on English Half long pipes, concertina and cello Dave |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,Roddy Date: 14 Dec 11 - 09:25 PM Wikipedia states:- "The tune is that of an old Welsh air, first found in a musical manuscript by Welsh harpist John Parry Ddall (c. 1710–1782), but undoubtedly much older than that. The composition is still popular as a dance tune in Wales, and was published in the 1784 and 1794 editions of the harpist Edward Jones's Musical and Poetical Relics of the Welsh Bards. Poet John Ceiriog Hughes wrote the first published lyrics for the piece in Welsh, titling it "Nos Galan" ("New Year's Eve")" Wikipedia continues:- "Charles Wood arranged a version, the words from Talhaiarn; translated by T. Oliphant. Oliphant died in 1873 and the first English version of 1881 is attributed to him." Talhaiarn (John Jones) and Oliphant worked closely on many works including: "Welsh Melodies, with Welsh and English poetry", by J. Jones (Talhaiarn) and T. Oliphant. I have not checked this publication altough Deck the Hall with Boughs of Holly is said to be in it:- "WORDS AND TUNES FROM THE BEST POETS AND MUSICIANS SELECTED AND ARRANGED BY JOHN HULLAH 1884" states:"Words (translated from Talhaiarn) by Oliphant. TUNE New Year's Eve. From Thomas's Welsh Melodies" There are four volumes to "Welsh Melodies". The first two were published in 1862, the third in 1870, fourth 1874. If Deck the Halls is in "Welsh Melodies" then it not only confirms Thomas Oliphant as the author of the English Version (which is clearly not a translation of the Welsh) but it would also pre-date the 1881 publication which attributes it to Thomas Oliphant anyway. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales Date: 29 Nov 11 - 07:01 PM Ah. Pogo's Boston Charlie. Best parody EVER. I go Pogo. In general, I keep telling myself that one day I'll make note of every use of Nos Galan / Deck the Halls on the media over the Christmas season. I'd guess that it might be one of the most used Christmas tunes, with Jingle Bells coming in second. And then the Media still tell us that no one likes traditional music ... sian |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Deck the Halls / Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Joe Offer Date: 29 Nov 11 - 06:04 PM Oh....back in 2000, Abby Sale graced us with his transcription of Deck Us All With Boston Charlie from the Pogo comic strip.... |
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Subject: ADD Parody: Deck Your Head (Green Bay Packers) From: Joe Offer Date: 29 Nov 11 - 05:53 PM I probably should be ashamed to post this parody, but I found it at a defunct Website, rabidfans.com, and it could well be that if it were not for this post, this song might be lost. Come to think of it, maybe that would have been a blessing.... DECK YOUR HEAD (Sung to "Deck The Halls") Deck your head with cheeseheads yellow, fa la la la la, la la la la! Then you'll be a merry fellow, fa la la la la, la la la la! Don we now our green apparel, fa la la la la, la la la la! And we'll sing some Packer carols, fa la la la la, la la la la! Put some mittens on your hands, fa la la la la, la la la la! Keep you warm up in the stands, fa la la la la, la la la la! Lambeau Field is really cold, fa la la la la, la la la la! Unless you cheer for the Green and Gold, fa la la la la, la la la la! First we'll have a tailgate party, fa la la la la, la la la la! Ten below, but we're real hardy, fa la la la la, la la la la! Bratwurst topped with sauerkraut, fa la la la la, la la la la! Schnapps will keep the frostbite out, fa la la la la, la la la la! I left Wisconsin before they came up with this "cheesehead" garbage, but the rest of it sounds authentic. I wonder how they avoided getting in a verse about deer season, the most sacred season of the year in Wisconsin.... |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales Date: 27 Oct 11 - 07:24 PM So are you sorted now Brian? Have all the info you need? I remember that snow storm. I was flying back to Wales after Christmas in Niagara; my sister lived in Montreal and was in the thick of it. Awesome is an overused word these days, but that storm truly deserved the adjective. I also remember Cor Meibion Montreal. You used to practice in that church on ... Rue Sainte-Catherine? Who's your conductor these days? sian |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 27 Oct 11 - 12:52 PM Hello, Brian. Thanks for posting. It's good to hear from somebody who is singing Welsh music. I've been through ice storms, but nothing like what you experienced. 28 days! That's miserable. The last storm I was in, we went for four days without power. It's amazing how cold one gets when that happens. Ice just seemed to drop out of the sky, and the sound of big trees crashing to the ground could come from anywhere. In fact, a huge limb from a mulberry tree speared the back window of our Ford. Give me snow over ice anytime. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,Brian Llewellyn-ap-Dafydd Date: 26 Oct 11 - 10:17 PM I sing for the Cor Meibion Cymreig Montreal (top tenor) I see this thread is a bit hoary itself. We are just getting ready to sing Nos Galan this season and wanted the first verse in Welsh so I was just checking a bit. You know. As to the hoar frost. One of the great natural disasters in Quebec some years back was the North American ice storm of 1998 (also known as Great Ice Storm of 1998 and Great Ice Storm '98) was a massive combination of five smaller successive ice storms which combined to strike a relatively narrow swath of land from eastern Ontario to southern Quebec to Nova Scotia in Canada, and bordering areas from northern New York to central Maine in the United States, in January 1998. It caused massive damage to trees and electrical infrastructure all over the area, leading to widespread long-term power outages. Millions were left in the dark for periods varying from days to weeks, leading to more than 30 fatalities, a shut down of activities in large cities like Montreal and Ottawa, and an unprecedented effort in reconstruction of the power grid. It was primarily caused by hoar frost, which is when the moisture in the air freezes directly on cold surfaces. On our case, trees and electricity grid lines. Without any rain or snow they become encased in ice. In Britain, I come from South Wales, this is usually a pretty and thin covering but here it was almost incredible. The ice just grew everywhere. I was evacuated from my home in the Richlieu valley by the army. I lived in an area called the black triangle. We were without power for 28 days. The average temperature at that time plunged to about minus 20. Work was shut down for a month. So much for hoar frost. |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 23 Dec 04 - 03:41 PM "slightly different tunes"? The two versions I posted are so different that some people don't recognize the first one as a variant until they are told about it. |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: masato sakurai Date: 23 Dec 04 - 12:08 AM Below are related tunes from Aloys Fleischmann, ed., Sources of Irish Traditional Music c. 1600-1855, 2 vols. (Garland, 1998). All are without lyrics. Edward Jones' version (1784) is not included. X:1 T:Nôs Galan [New Yea's Eve] %written Calan (probably a typo) M:C L:1/8 S:John Parry, British Harmony, London, 1781, p. 7 N:Fleischmann no. 2052 K:G d3 c B2 A2|G2 A2 B2 G2|ABcd c2 BA|G2 ~F2 G4:||: A2 B2 c2 A2|B2 c2 d2 A2|Bc d2 cd e2|=f2 e2 d4| d3 c B2 A2|G2 A2 B2 G2|ABcd c2 BA|G2 ~F2 G4:| X:2 T:Nos Galan M:C L:1/8 S:Edward Light, Introduction to Playing the Harp-lute & Apollo-lyre, London, c. 1785, p. 25c N:Fleischmann no. 2146 K:F c'3 b a2 g2|f2 g2 a2 f2|gabg a3 g|f2 e2 f4| c'3 b a2 g2|f2 g2 a2 f2|gabg a3 g|f2 e2 f4| g3 a b2 g2|a3 b c'2 g2|a=b c'2 d'e'f'd'|c'2 d'2 {c'/d'/}c'4| c'3 b a2 g2|f2 g2 a2 f2|gabg a3 g|f2 e2 f4|] X:3 T:A Piper O'er the Meadows Straying [Irish] M:C L:1/8 S:O'Farrell's Pocket Companion for the Irish or Union Pipes, London, 1804-16, vol. III, p. 24b N:Fleischmann no. 4134 K:G B/c/|d3 c B2 A2|G2 G2 B2 G2|ABcA G3 F|G2 B2 B3 A| d2 c2 B3 A|G2 G2 B3 G|ABcA G3 F|[1 G2 B2 G3:|[2 G2 B2 G3 z]|: %rest inserted the second time A3 B c3 A|BABc d2 A2|B/c/ d3 e/f/ g3|f2 e2 d3 B/c/| dedc BcBA|G2 G2 B3 G|AecA G3 F|G2 B2 G4:|] X:4 T:A Piper On the Meadows Straying T:[An admired duett in the opera od ZORINSKI] M:C L:1/8 S:Hime's Pocket Book for the German Flute or Violin, vol. IV, c. 1810, p. 38 N:Fleischmann no. 5251 K:G G|d3 c B3 A|G2 G3/2A/ B2 G2|AB cA G2 F2|G2 GA/B/ B2 A2| d3 c B3 A|G2 G3/2A/ B2 G2|AB cA G2 F2|G2 B2 G2 z2| A3 B c2 A2|B3 c d2 A2|B^c d2 ef gz/g/|f2 e2 d2 zd| d3 c B3 A|G2 G3/2A/ B2 G2| Ae cA G2 F2|G2 B2 G2z2|] |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Dec 04 - 08:26 PM The second printing of the "Franklin Square Song Collection" in 1898 also was without attribution. No text changes from the 1881 edition. |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: masato sakurai Date: 22 Dec 04 - 07:59 PM The first English version was reproduced in J.P. McCaskey's another book, Favorite Songs and Hymns for School and Home (New York: American Book Company, 1899, p. 300), also without lyrics credit. |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: MMario Date: 22 Dec 04 - 02:05 PM Q- sorry - I'll have to look it up again - it was a paper on the history and language of Christmas carols - the current lyrics they said were changed from the 1881 lyrics in 1924 due to the growing strength of the prohibition movement. |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Dec 04 - 02:05 PM In the midi for "Nos Galen" (very nice!), above, the 'Fa la la' grouping is different from that of "Deck the Hall(s)." The midi in "Hymns and Carols of Christmas" is better for the latter song. Perhaps both should be posted, rather than trying to service slightly different tunes with one midi. Deck the Halls |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Dec 04 - 01:45 PM MMario, what is the source of the "1881" version you posted 07 Dec 04? The one in "The Franklin Square Song Collection" for 1881 is the one posted by Masato 22 Dec 04 (titled "Deck the Hall With Holly"). This was long before prohibition. Also with reference to a post by Haruo long ago regarding the fa la las, in the 'Franklin Square' book they are all grouped the same; five (Fa la la la la) together before :, then the remaining four. |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 22 Dec 04 - 11:03 AM There was an unavoidable delay between my post about the MIDI of the old tune and the actual posting of the old tune. If you are reading this, please go up and listen to the old tune, because it's finally here. Here's a musical puzzle. Recently we played the two versions of this tune, the familiar version in D and the older version which is posted above. I found it easy to specify chords (C,D7 G)to move from the 1810 version to the familiar version, but it didn't work going back. Supposedly one modulates by playing the 5-7 chord of the new key, which in this case would be a G7, but it didn't sound right. Another thing: if you want it to look Welsh, you put the chord symbols below the notes, not above. We joke that our guitarist can play guitar in three language, English, Welsh and German. |
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Subject: Tune Add: DECK THE HALL WITH BOUGHS OF HOLLY From: masato sakurai Date: 22 Dec 04 - 04:31 AM The first English version (see James J. Fuld, The Book of World-Famous Music, 5th ed., p. 193) has some differences: Hall (without -s) in the title, some other words, and music in the repeated part. "See the blazing yule before us" is in the original. The author of the lyrics is not mentioned. It is arranged as a four-part piece. X:1 T:Deck the Hall with Boughs of Holly M:C L:1/8 C:Welsh Air B:J. P. McCaskey, Franklin Square Song Collection, [No. 1], 1881, p. 120 K:F c3 B A2 G2 | F2 G2 A2 F2 |G A B G A3 G|F2 E2 F4| w:1.Deck the hall with boughs of hol-ly, Fa la la la la la la la la, w:2.See the blaz-ing yule be-fore us, w:3.Fast a-way the old year pass-es, c3 B A2 G2|F2 G2 A2 F2|G A B G A3 G|F2 E2 F4| w:'Tis the sea-son to be jol-ly, Fa la la la la la la la la, w:Strike the harp and join the cho-rus, w:Hail the new, ye lads and lass-es! |:G3 A B2 G2|A3 B c2 A2|c3 B A2 G2|F2 G2 A2 F2| w:Don we now our gay ap-par-el, Troll the an-cient Christ-mas car-ol, w:Fol-low me in mer-ry mea-sure, While I tell of Christ-mas trea-sure, w:Sing we joy-ous all to-geth-er, Heed-less of the wind and weath-er, d d d d c3 B|A2 G2 F4 :|] w:Fa la la la la la la la la. The music sounds truncated, but that's what it was in the song book. |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Dec 04 - 02:48 AM MIDI from Leeneia posted. See links above. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: Tune Add: Nos Galan - old tune From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 10 Dec 04 - 04:06 PM People have been talking about the history of Nos Galen, which is the Welsh name for the tune we know as Deck the Halls (or Hall.) I thought players might be interested in having this MIDI of the tune, which comes from the collection of John Parry Ddall, a Welsh harper born in 1710. He played the triple harp, which explains the B-flat. Showing off, no doubt! I've sent the MIDI to Joe Offer for posting, and I hope it appears soon and someone conversant with abc converts it. The song sounds the same but different from Deck the Hall. It seems minor, yet the chords are not minor. I picture it being played in a rather sexy fashion, with percussion and more twoism than fourism to the beat. If anybody indicates an interest in the chords, I will type them out. They are G,F, and C, with a lone Am in the fourth measure from the end. Here's hoping this works and somebody wants to play it. The original has a repeat for the second section (the last 8 measures) but I didn't put that in the MIDI. It's easier to put the two dots in yourself. Click to play |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: themadblonde Date: 09 Dec 04 - 04:42 PM So the general consensus seems to be that the TUNE was first noted in Welsh tune books so may very well be Welsh; it is @ least as old as 1781, might be rather older but probably not SEVERAL centuries older. I can't seem to understand if it was first notated w/ words or not- when did these Welsh words first appear? I gather that there may have been more than one set of lyrics in Welsh, but the ones given by Liz the Squeak seem to translate to something about bills, Snowden, & people who are too rude to be sociable on New Year's day? Whereas the rhymed "translation" relates primarily to the vaguaries of the New Year & how best to greet it? Meanwhile, English words appeared in an American publication in 1881, which has led some people to believe that the song might be American (?). These also mention New Year, but have more to do w/ merrymaking & general decoration than the Welsh. Finally, the one thing that seems to be common, The New Year, is also a little vague, because the start of the Celtic New Year was what is now called Hallowe'en. If the song is TRULY ancient, that would put the time of revelry MUCH earlier, which seems to conflict w/ the images of cold & snow (I'm not sure about Welsh weather in late October, but I believe it's still more temperate there than here, & even here we don't usually get that kind of cold until November). So, considering the song is probably a little younger than THAT, the New Year to which it is referring SHOULD be the same date we celebrate today. If you can clarify or correct any of these points, PLEASE do so. I really would like to understand, as much as possible, what IS known about this song. It's a favourite of mine. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales Date: 08 Dec 04 - 12:33 PM Oh. I thought it was the other way around, as the Yule reference is more in keeping with the Decking theme. But I'm quite happy to stand corrected! siân |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: MMario Date: 08 Dec 04 - 08:57 AM yeah - it was "folk-processed" for prohibition! so away went the mead, flowing bowl and quaffing! |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales Date: 08 Dec 04 - 04:32 AM Interesting, Mmario. I've always knows the first line of the second verse as, "See the blazing yule before us!" We've been folk-processed. siân |
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Subject: Lyr Add: DECK THE HALLS (1881 version) From: MMario Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:53 PM the test as first published in 1881 DECK THE HALLS (1881 version) Deck the halls with boughs of holly fa-la-la-la-la, la-la-la-la 'Tis the season to be jolly fa-la-la-la-la, la-la-la-la Fill the mead cup, drain the barrel, fa-la-la la-la-la la-la-la Troll the aincient Christmas Carol fa-la-la-la-la, la-la-la-la See the flowing bowl before us! Strike the harp and join the chorus. Follow me in merry measure while I tell of beauty's treasure. Fast away the old year passess Hail the new, ye lads and lassess Laughing, quaffing, all together. Heedless of the wind and weather. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: SOON THE HOAR OLD YEAR MUST LEAVE US From: MMario Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:51 PM SOON THE HOAR OLD YEAR MUST LEAVE US Soon the hoar old year must leave us, Fa la la la la, la la la la. But the parting must not grieve us Fa la la la la, la la la la. When the new year comes tomorrow Fa la la la la, la la la la Let him find no trace of sorrow Fa la la la la, la la la la. He our pleasures may redouble, Fa la la la la, la la la la. He may bring us store of trouble, Fa la la la la, la la la la. Hope the best and gaily meet him, Fa la la la la, la la la la. With a jovial chorus greet him, Fa la la la la, la la la la. At his birth, he brings us gladness, Fa la la la la, la la la la. Ponder not on future sadness, Fa la la la la, la la la la. Anxious care is now but folly, Fa la la la la, la la la la. Fill the mead-cup, hand the holly, Fa la la la la, la la la la. |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:45 PM Sorry, Leenia. Our local TV weatherman tried to define hoar frost. Seldom used by city, or country folk here in freeze your butt off western Canada. I have heard, "Now ain't this weather a hoor?" |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 07 Dec 04 - 11:23 AM Now look. Where does anybody get off assuming that "cityfolk would tend to hear "whore frost". ?! I live in a city, a place with real beauty and occasional hoar frost. My imagination has not been taken over by whores. I'm afraid somebody's been watching too much TV. |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:28 PM Try again: Deck the Halls |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:26 PM In Hymns and Carols of Christmas, there is a statement at the end of the discussion of "Deck the Halls" that says the first English version appeared in "The Franklin Square Song Collection" edited by J. P. McCaskey in 1881. This popular songbook went through several editions. Deck the Halls |
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Subject: meaning: Troll the ancient yuletide carol??? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:30 PM See Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.
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Subject: Need meaning of Troll the Ancient Yuletide Carol From: GUEST,Tattoosgoddess@aol.com Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:13 PM My daughter has a homework assignment, I have looked everywhere, and am open to suggestions. I need the meaning of this phrase. I know what I think it means, and what I have interpreted its meaning to be, but am not sure. Please help. Thank You!! Happy Holidays!! |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Gareth Date: 12 Oct 01 - 06:16 PM Cymry (pl.Welshpeople) or Cimri (pl.Welshpeople) Garydd |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo Date: 12 Oct 01 - 06:13 PM Oops! I mean the ŷ ! — that's the difference between "275" and "375" in specifying Unicode equivalents, I guess. Still, it may be an encouragement to those (e.g. working with Hawai'ian or Maori texts) who want macrons (macra?) badly... Liland |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo Date: 12 Oct 01 - 05:42 PM Done! Let me know if your gwyr doesn't have a circumflex on the ē! Liland |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo Date: 11 Oct 01 - 03:28 PM And the plural of Cymraes would be...? Thanks for the info on "Rhyfelgyrch gw^yr Harlech". God willin' an' the crick doan rise, I'll have it looking proper Cymreig Cymraeg by tomorrow. Liland |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales Date: 11 Oct 01 - 07:11 AM Oops, just noticed that I didn't pick up on Liland's Cymreig/Cymraeg! Come-RAYG (ei = long 'a', as in ray of sunshine) means Welsh in nature, Come-R'EYE'G (that is, a ae= eye as in my little eye) is Welsh in language. Hard 'c's and 'g's in each case. Oh, and you could add Cymraes (come-RICE) which is a Welsh woman as opposed to Cymro (come-ROE) for Welshman. Cymru (Wales) and Cymry (pl.Welshpeople) are pronounced the same in the South (Come-REE). See, now you knows whole bunches of Welsh! sian |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales Date: 11 Oct 01 - 05:08 AM I'm afraid it's a case of not believing everything you read on an album cover. Sorry, but I've phoned around to people who, literally, wrote the book on the music side of this (Meredydd Evans and Phyllis Kinney) and the DANCE is Dawns Flodau Nantgarw and the TUNE is Nos Galan. I used to be a member of the Welsh Folk Dance Soc. as well - and I still reckon this is right. Dicho, Phyl says that the first ever published words were in Edward Jones' (Bardd y Brenin - the King's Bard) collection, Musical And Poetic Relicks of the Welsh Bards, 1784, but had nothing to do with the Christmas/New Year Season. Mered (who's the text expert) thinks that EJ may have written them himself, the English being a pretty direct translation of the Welsh: O how soft my fair one's bosom... John Parry, Ruabon, also printed the TUNE only in his British Harmony, and possibly in an earlier "A Collection of Welsh, English and Scottish Airs" in 1761. There is also a reference to a tune "New Year's Day" in a manuscript by Richard Morris (b. 1701) which was a very hodge-podge list of tunes that he heard around and noted, diary-style, between the ages of 15 - 18. Back to the album cover - Phyllis says she'd like to know JK's reference material ... she like's to keep track of other sets of words... Oh, and Liland, the title is sort of right, but not by modern orthography. "V" is no longer considered to be a Welsh letter (used in the past to correct English pronunciation of the single "f") so it would be Rhyfelgyrch gwyr Harlech. There should also be a circumflex accent over the "y" in "gwyr" ... but that seems to be next to impossible in internet applications. ((sigh)). Actually, I thought it was Rhyfelgan (war song)... but I could very well be wrong on that ... Hope this is useful! sian
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Crane Driver Date: 10 Oct 01 - 11:09 PM John Kirkpatrick, on his midwinter album "Wassail", does a set of 'three terrific old dance tunes that were given new English words during the nineteenth century' {quote}. The first is 'The Nantgarw Flower Dance' which was 'traditionally done in Wales on New Year's Eve, and is also known as "Nos Galan", which means "New Year's Eve" in the Welsh language.' {quote again} Does that make anything clearer? Nos dda! |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo Date: 10 Oct 01 - 05:23 PM Here's the link Al la Esperantistaro by F J West and the tune name Rhyvelgyrch gwyr Harlech. (This is from Kantaro Esperanta, 1926, edited by Montagu Christie Butler. Not sure how competent Butler was in Welsh... Liland |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Haruo Date: 10 Oct 01 - 05:19 PM Actually, I don't know the meaning of "Cymreig" (the triplet I claimed was "Cymro-Cymru-Cymraeg", though both "Cymraeg" and "Cymreig" look to me like they're probably best pronounced roughly "come Reich", FWTW) and I can't imagine what "Welsh-speaking cheese" is. Is it edible or just audible? ;-) BTW I just posted an Esperanto movement song to "Men of Harlech" and should have one of you vet my spelling of the tune name (I gave it a Welsh name). Hang on a minute while I go get a link. Liland |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Skipper Jack Date: 10 Oct 01 - 03:59 PM Thank you Sian. You are probably right. Isn't it amazing how a seemingly simple request can open up such an intellectual discussion and it all started with Fa-la-la-la, la-la-la.!!!
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: sian, west wales Date: 10 Oct 01 - 04:54 AM Phyllis was given a set of Groves as a birthday present on the Welsh equivalent of "This is Your Life" last year. She nearly fainted! And I'm sure that getting the use of it might make me a happy man, but I'm quite happy being a woman at present ... 8-} sian |
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Subject: RE: Lyric Req: DeckHalls Cymraeg Nos Galan From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 09 Oct 01 - 04:45 PM Groves is right. If your friend Phyllis is given a set of Groves, you will be a favored man if you can beg, borrow or steal the use of it. |
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