Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: dermod in salisbury
Date: 21 Feb 07 - 04:26 AM

By the way, Houston Diamond, if your printer does not pick up all the text on screen, the problem lies with your settings. Try this link http://www.worldstart.com/tips/tips.php/1354

---

Thread closed temporarily because it's been a target for a heavy barrage of Spam. If you have something to add to the discussion, contact me and I'll reopen it.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 08:34 PM

Houston, thanks,

I know all those MSIE tricks (the second one has already been suggested above) too - my problem is not with MSIE, but wanting to move to another browser, preferably in Linux and to keep that 'one click drop on desktop' simplicity...

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 07:15 PM

Quote:
From: Foolestroupe - PM
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 06:50 AM

With regard to browsers:

I still like MSIE (V6 is last one to work on 98SE)

The ONE thing I like, and want to keep, but do not seem to be able to find is the ability to drop the shortcut directly on the desktop, form where I move to where I want. I haven't used "Favourites" for so long, because I can never FIND anything in there...

Tried latest version of Opera 9.10 - same hassle - is there any plugin for ANY browser (I would LIKE tabs, etc) that does this?

Robin


Under file menu on IE7 (I think it's on IE6 too) you have "Send" as an option where you can send to desktop (creating a shortcut).

Another method is to copy your URL hit the windows key(if you have one) and D key together to display the desktop (think that still works in Windows 98) or minimise all your windows to show your desktop, right click and choose new where the option to create a shortcut will appear and then you can paste (ctrl+v) your URL in the shortcut name. after clicking next it should be on your desktop!!! :)

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 06:46 PM

well...I have heard mixed reviews about freedownloadmanager. Some like it a lot...some have issues with the details...but it seems to do what it needs to.

There are several on this page that are highly recommended by those who specialize in evaluating freeware. I have used two of them and done fine. DLExpert is my favorite of the group.

But if you are doing ok, I wouldn't bother looking, unless like me, you just like to try stuff.

Right now, I am using the last free version of Net Transport, which is amazing, but has gone payware.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 06:19 PM

"accomplish in 7-8 roundabout steps what I usually do in 2-3."

Which is WHY I'm loking for a 'right-click plugin in'.... :-P


Bill - after tryinga few such apps - I currently use "Free Download Manager" ver 2.1

"Free Download Manager (FDM) is a full-featured download accelerator and manager. It is absolutely free! Using this software product you can easily download a list of files and whole web sites from any remote server via HTTP, HTTPS and FTP. With FDM the downloading process will be as easy as never before!

   FDM is a light-weight, powerful and easy-to-use application. Also this software product is well-known for its intuitive and user-friendly interface. FDM can function as a site manager, accelerator, site explorer and scheduler.

   FDM can resume broken downloads. So you needn't start the downloading process from the very beginning after casual interruption. You can resume unfinished download from the moment when it was interrupted. Also this program warns you if resuming isn't supported by the servers. It allows you to make a decision about the downloading. So with FDM you save your time and money.

   FDM is an indispensable tool for download acceleration. It splits files into several sections and then downloads them simultaneously allowing you to increase your download speed up to 600%.

   This software application can be used in automatic mode. You can schedule the following operations: set or hang up the Internet connection, exit from the program and shutdown the computer. All the operations mentioned above can be set at the specified time.

   FDM allows adjusting traffic usage. So it provides you with an opportunity to browse web pages much faster if you use a low connection speed.

   NEW! Free Download Manager is not only the perfect downloader, but also social software designed to make surfing and downloading a safer and more rewarding experience. FDM users can now request the opinion of other community members on the file they are going to download right from the download window, and also leave their own opinion about the downloaded file. In this way FDM users will always be warned against useless or malicious files. Read more about this opportunity on our Community Features page.

   System requirements:

   In order to use FDM, you must have one of the following operating systems and browsers installed on your computer:

Microsoft Windows 9x/ME/NT/2000/XP
Internet Explorer 5.0 and above.
"

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 02:24 PM

For saving a web page, I've found that the .mht archive format is a lot cleaner than .htm, but I'm afraid I haven't looked to see what it does with attachments if you tried to use it for emails.

Most of my favorite sites for which I'd like to save the whole site are multi GigaByte, and my connection is good for about 2.8 kbit/sec (an average). I doubt if the program would help me much there, since I can't seem to stay connected for more than a couple of hours at a time.

But I think we discussed that in another thread ... .

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 10:51 AM

Well, I'm impressed! Foolestroupe really DOES have a lot of computer background. So much so that he is able to adapt Win 3.1 techniques to XP and accomplish in 7-8 roundabout steps what I usually do in 2-3.

But hey...as John says, if it works for you, it works. *grin* (uphill...both ways!)

Interesting....I tested that " copy the URL from the address bar - ...
Right click on the desktop, select "New" and then "Shortcut." trick, and put a link to this thread directly on my desktop. I'm SURE I never did anything like that before. I also doubt I'll ever need to do it again, but it's part of learning what CAN be done, and maybe the information will come in handy some day.

(BTW, for saving an entire web site..as opposed to single pages, as one can do right from the browser menu....http://www.httrack.com/ is one of the most amazing programs ever. (You knew I'd have a program, ...right?) It will create an exact copy of a site...or single page...for offline browsing. It can even be set to save ONLY one type of file...like .jpg or .mp3. I originally used it for copying Bruce Olson's site when it was not clear who would keep it safe.)

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 08:56 AM

"I tell my kids about it frequently too."

... as I believed my grandparents telling me that too..

.... and your kids don't believe you ...

what? are kids gettig smarter thse days?

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 08:41 AM

And Foolestroupe used to have to walk to school, barefoot in the snow, over broken glass and cockleburs, dragging the stubborn mule his li'l sister got to ride, up hill both ways, against the wind and the sleet; and had to hurry to get home and milk the goats before it got too dark to do his homework with a piece of charcoal on the back of a shovel in front of the flickering fire ...

Ah yes, those were the good old days and I remember it all just like he does.

I tell my kids about it frequently too.

I think the method is understood, and it makes excellent sense if it's what works for you.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 08:25 AM

"I love my mac."

So do I at the moment - Yeah, it has been raining a bit for a change here... :-)

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 08:23 AM

"A clumsy workaround for Foolestroupe's desktop shortcuts:"


played that game - it's a thorough PITA...
which is WHY I asked.... :-)

"I didn't check to see if it overwrites the first shortcut if you make another without changing the shortcut name"

Can answer that one straight off - it appends a " (2)" (number increases automagically!) to the end of the shortcut! It even does that if you do the right click trick more than once on the same page! :-) That's why it LOOKS like it was "MickeyCrap Designed"!!!! :-)

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: English Jon
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 08:18 AM

I love my mac.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 08:14 AM

"Of course, with html browser email you can't save the email, but ..."

Try saving it as an HTML file... :-) I have used Eudora (with a slight try of Pegasus) for ages... :-)



"making a separate folder for each item/object saved,"

Not EVERY one - my 'Tech' directory has a lot of sub dirs - I despise the MMA (Micky$soft Marketing Affection) of another name! - having been raised on mainframes/minis, etc... - but within each one of them may be lots of related stuff, some have urls (called an Internet Shortcut!) to get there quickly. That's way you used to save 'packages' of related ideas on other machines before Bill conned the market....


"a shortcut thats' dropped onto the desktop can be dragged into a folder where it will appear as a shortcut file."

Well..... :-) the Desktop is 'sorta' a folder too :-)

Each url requires ONE file allocation block, I know, in the 'Favourites' Directory (which you could move in 9x to any partition or directory!) as stored by MS (as does each directory in which they are sorted anyway!) - so does each one NO MATTER WHERE ON DISK IT IS STORED - at one stage I made a separate partition - 'Max Size Allowed' of allocation unit 512 bytes (_I_ know how big that was!!!)
:-) and that was more than big enough for ALL my hundreds of stored favourites... so my way doesn't use any more disk space anyway!... :-P

If you Zip up everything in a folder - then you can save space if you need...



"If it is that you don't LIKE the standard way ...

He's "asserting his independence.""

It's DEFINITELY an MS STANDARD WAY! - that's WHY they put the damn right click thing there in the first place!!!!

Btw, I have no piccies for a screen background - years of slogging away with VERY low end machines (what?!!! you think the tech support guy DIDN'T get the oldest slowest least resourced machine in the office?????!!!!!) meant that I learnt to dispose of pretty desktops, large screen savers, 'sounds' (Win 3.1 just stopped utile the sound was finished!), unnecessary background processes, etc, to grab as many resources as I could manage to keep the little boxes working! And I had to test out the SW that would crash on the big machines - which is how I discovered the 'unknown' max file size limit in Excel! :-)

That first link to the opera stuff is broken, btw. 404.
I wasted ages digging thru that second link a week ago thanks.... everybody seems to want to play with HTML lists of urls, not bunches of individual 'Internet Shortcut Files'....

[link fixed-he left out one bracket]
a clone

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 08:04 AM

A clumsy workaround for Foolestroupe's desktop shortcuts:

If you copy the URL from the address bar - which you should be able to do from any browser(?)

Right click on the desktop, select "New" and then "Shortcut."

A Wizard opens that asks for the target, and you can paste the URL in the box and hit next. The wizard will put a shortcut on the desktop, to that URL. Note that you must have the URL in the clipboard before you open the Wizard, since it won't let you go elsewhere once it opens.

The clumsy part is that it uses the generic name "New Link" for the shortcut. I didn't check to see if it overwrites the first shortcut if you make another without changing the shortcut name. You'd certainly want to rename the file, before or after dragging it to a folder somewhere.

Since everything except capturing the URL to the clipboard is "pure Windows" it should work with any browser.

Not exactly a one-click, but at least it's a possible.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 05:24 AM

and HTML is not exactly something one 'stores'

One of my exceptions to always adding, or recording, the URL is for articles from the Microsoft Knowledge Base. In IE, I can "save as" and choose the "Web Archive, single file (*.mht)" format, and have the "document" saved locally for quick access or slow reading later. In the case of the KB articles, it's fairly easy to find articles by the document number, so I edit the default title to put the KB# at the front end of the filename, as I save them. Most web pages can be saved the same way, although it can be blocked if they really want to do it. Save As "html" is horribly messy, and I've (almost) completely given up on that.

Another option is to email a web page to yourself, and you can paste the URL in the subject line for record purposes, although sometimes the URL will get truncated if it's a really long one. Of course, with html browser email you can't save the email, but ...

(Most KB article titles are too long to archive on CD, so they have to be altered if you really want to keep one for historical purposes. Even your WinXP setup disks will get you notice of CD-illegal filenames if you try to burn an archive copy.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 07 - 05:05 AM

Bill D -

I think you nailed Foolestroupe:

If it is that you don't LIKE the standard way ...

He's "asserting his independence."

Windows, and Office programs, are generally well adapted to the use of lots of links in places where "normal" people might not think to use them.

It's quite common to see the instruction to "save on the desktop" in "how to download" advice, where the "desktop" is used essentially as a temp space. As he's indicated, a shortcut thats' dropped onto the desktop can be dragged into a folder where it will appear as a shortcut file. Double clicking the shortcut filename in WinExplorer will open the target, whether it's a program on your own computer or a web page on the internet. As a temp space for retrieving an object address, the desktop is, essentially, just another folder (or directory, as Robin may prefer).

For web pages that I might want to go back to, I don't find any real problems with just putting the link in favorite/bookmarks in the browser. If I save information from a site, I do want to record how to get back to the site where I stole the info. If the site offers a "printable view," I usually use the print view, but copy and paste to Word. I usually put a document name on the top line in "filename format" since Word will automatically use the first line as it's suggested filename when you save, and I put the link copied from the browser address bar immediately after the title.

Some things that one downloads, especially pdf files, almost never contain a source-site identification, and aren't editable for you to put the site ident in the saved article. A few things are technically editable, but not easily enough to be worth the effort. My solution for those is a Word document (weblog.doc) with a shortcut on my desktop, where I just past the links from the addy bar with the filename(s) of anything I save immediately adjacent, or sometimes with just a "descriptive comment" if I don't save anything. The document has lots of trash in it, but it's searchable in Word, and if I've saved the filename, in WinExplorer a slow two clicks opens the filename for edit, Ctl-C copies the filename, Ctl-F in Word opens the "Find" box, Ctl-V, pastes the filename in "what to find," and Enter takes me directly to the right link.

Foolestroupe apparently(?) is making a separate folder for each item/object saved, and putting a link, as a shortcut file, in the same folder with the object. The desktop location is just a temp space for holding the link until it can be moved to a location that associates it with the saved object - I think.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 11:39 PM

*reading carefully*

Foolestroupe...do I understand that if you are at an interesting site, you wish to 'drop' a shortcut back to that site directly to the desktop? If that is what you mean, it is certainly an unusual practice. That is what bookmarks (or as IE calls them, 'favorites') are for, and every browser assumes you'd keep these IN 'favorites' or 'bookmarks', as you'd likely have way more than you could keep track of. It sounds like you are trying to do things that are not usually done. If I am missing something, I'd like to know what.
The things on the desktop are 'usually' shortcuts to programs...or sometimes, images or sound files. Opera and Firefox have VERY nice toolbars...several different types...to keep 'links' to commonly visited sites, and these can even be nested in categories of your own devising.
Like John, I have many program icons on my desktop, but I am gradually reducing even them with pop-up, pop-out programs that hide my icons until I do a mouse trick which shows them.

   If it is that you don't LIKE the standard way of keeping 'favorites', there are several other ways to keep information like that. I can keep a HUGE list of URLs in a 'clipboard extender'...or in a special stand-alone bookmark program.

"A handy feature of the right click to desktop
is thatI can store the urls WITH related files, HTML, exe, swf, etc in a dir whch can then zipped if required."

This puzzles me...that is a strange combination of things to want to store in a directory?? Do you means a folder? exes and URLs are not usually needed quite that way...and HTML is not exactly something one 'stores'. I think there may be a terminology confusion here. Could you give some example of something you already have that way?

I find that Opera 9.10 has excellent bookmark organization, with ways to add notations & documentation to each one....did you try those features?

I really doubt that 'plugins' are what you want, although Opera 9 has a feature called "Widgets" that will do many tricks...they are sort of mini-plugins for special tricks. Here are some associated with bookmarks

I suspect that there is a relatively easy way to get the results you want, if we could just sort out exactly what it is.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 08:19 PM

So - still looking for that plugin for ANY browser....

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 08:07 PM

"A handy feature of the exported listing is that since it displays as a web page you can use the "Edit|Find on Page" (or Ctl-F) to look for the one that got buried in the bucket of worms in your browser."


A handy feature of teh Right click to desktop

is thatI can store the urls WITH related files, HTML, exe, swf, etc in a dir whch can then zipped if required... :-)

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 08:06 PM

I thought I tried the right-click and didn't see that option, but it is there.

I think I'm unlikely to use it much, as I've got close to 60 program icons on the desktop. If I put one or two more up there they'll start to cover up the pretty lady with the viol and the happy smile that I have for a desktop picture to keep me in a good mood.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 07:59 PM

Of course some a***** who disable right clicks on their pages run the risk of me saying "Well, stuff'em then. I won't go back there..."

and their pathetic attempt to prevent the saving of any content from that site by those who really KNOW technically what they are doing is not prevented at all.... just made a little more lengthy...

:-)

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 07:53 PM

Right click on browser window

- click on 'create shortcut'

it then says
"a shortcut to the current page will be placed on your desktop
- OK
- Cancel"

ever since MSIE - ver 2 I think - always done that... :-)

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 05:38 PM

Foolestroupe -

I don't see a way (in IE7, but I think it's the same in IE6) to drop a shortcut directly onto the desktop, but if you put it into Favorites you can drag it from there to the desktop. Have you found an easier way?

If your Favorites get unmanageable, Click File | Export and export them all to a file location. The export will be an htm page and when you open the export you'll see a "web page" with all your favorites in outline order where they may be a little easier to cull out the garbage. You can import that page back into favorites, so it's essentially a backup, letting you delete all the old ones in the browser and start over. If you want, you can do like I did - with the exported listing open put a link in "Favorites" in IE to the exported file, so you can open it any time you need to look for an oldie.

A handy feature of the exported listing is that since it displays as a web page you can use the "Edit|Find on Page" (or Ctl-F) to look for the one that got buried in the bucket of worms in your browser.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 06:50 AM

With regard to browsers:

I still like MSIE (V6 is last one to work on 98SE)

The ONE thing I like, and want to keep, but do not seem to be able to find is the ability to drop the shortcut directly on the desktop, form where I move to where I want. I haven't used "Favourites" for so long, because I can never FIND anything in there...

Tried latest version of Opera 9.10 - same hassle - is there any plugin for ANY browser (I would LIKE tabs, etc) that does this?

Robin

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Feb 07 - 01:38 AM

On the subject of changing passwords:

IF YOU HAVE A ROUTER in your system, it directs your internet connection to a specific DNS Server site to translate the "common names" you use (website URLs) into the numerical addresses that the internet actually uses.

Researchers at Symantec and Indiana University have found, and have published, a method whereby a malicious website that you visit can change the "DNS Server" you expect to go to, substituting their own fake server, which can then send you to a fake site that looks exactly like your own bank or other place where you might enter personal data.

Merely visiting the site is sufficient. They DO NOT HAVE TO TRICK YOU INTO CLICKING ON ANYTHING once you've connected.

There have been no reports, as yet, of anyone using this method; but now that it's been reported it may be expected that someone will try to use it.

Normal Antivirus, Antispyware, and Antiphishing programs do not appear to be able to detect or to block this particular method.

There is, however, a very simple fix. The method requires that they know the password to get into your router to make the change. All routers come with a default password, and if you haven't changed yours, they know what it is.

If you CHANGE YOUR ROUTER PASSWORD to a secure one of your own, this pharming method should be completely disabled. (Just be sure that you record your new password in a secure place. Type it into a graphics program and save it as a .jpg if you must leave it on your machine?)

If you don't know the default password for your own router, you can go to Router Passwords to get it, just as easily as the criminals could.

The "discoverer's" explanation of this vulnerability is at:

Zulfikar Ramzan's explanation (at Symantec).

A brief "news flash" is at Change Your Router Password NOW!

Note that if you have a WIRELESS network or access, you probably have a separate password for access to network functions, which also has a default that you need to change. The password affected here is the one to access the innards of the router, and probably is a different one.

CHANGE ALL DEFAULT PASSWORDS that come with your equipment.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 16 Feb 07 - 09:06 PM

Well... what ever keeps the boat afloat... if your happy with a browser and the way it performs then there is no real reason to change it!!!

I have hated IE6 but then I hated IE5 and the increments between. IE6 I particularly hated due to extreme security flaws and the inability to print on paper all the text on a webpage.

In the next few weeks I am hoping to set up a Linux OS based PC to add to my small home network so I can have even more learning curve fun.

Oh... those who use MySpace and sites like it. IE7, Firefox 2 and Opera 9 users are very well protected against phishing sites. Other version browsers (not sure about Safari - not a mac user) should get internet security from Norton, Panda, McAfee or similar with browser phishing plugin capabilities.

Stop the little sods from getting their mitts on your password(s)!!!

I clicked on a friends link in one of their comments the other day... unfortunately they had been using IE6 and had inadvertently done the same to their friends (who also was using IE6) they had been caught in the phishing net so to speak. My Browser IE7 on Vista SCREAMED Phishing webpage which if it hadn't I would not have realised that there was one character wrong in the url!!! the page looked exactly like the real thing otherwise.

My friends had to change their passwords!!!

on another note; Vista had 2 updates yesterday... XP pro SP2 had 10, cant wait for Linux :)!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Bernard
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:34 AM

There's no need to do a sytem restore to get back to IE6 - just use 'Add or Remove Programmes' from Control Panel...

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: dermod in salisbury
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:51 AM

I did at least find a solution to Norton nags some months ago. The trick was to uninstall everything Norton connected on my pc and switch to McAfee. Ah the bliss of no persistent interruptions months before annual subscripion becomes due. No solution to Flash problems in IE7 yet, on the other hand, even after reducing security settings. So it is Janie's route for me, back to IE6.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Wordsmith
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 01:56 AM

freda underhill, I was curious about your comment that AVG is turning into a paid subscription. I have AVG and haven't received any notices that it's going to cost me in future. I just updated on Monday night without a peep. I also run Ad-Aware SE Personal and Spybot for free. I had a run-in with WinXP IE7, but I turned off the update features. I still get little window update offers while I'm in the middle of a blog or surfing the web. I find it both intrusive and annoying. I can't wait till I have to buy a new PC or laptop to then pay through the nose for Vista Premium, but that's another thread altogether. Good luck.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 12:36 AM

Cluin -

I should perhaps have made it clearer that I missed your first ref to Norton Works, and after one or two exchanges it got lost in the shuffle. Intervening comments by some others may have been a contributing factor, or - more likely - just my own stupidity.

Apologies tendered sincerely.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Janie
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 12:03 AM

Gotta confess I haven't read most of this thread. I installed IE7 prompted by an update reminder. Within a few days I uninstalled it and did a system restore to a previous point. All kinds of quirky problems, big and small, with IE7. Much happier with the olde version.

Janie

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 10:22 PM

And fumblefingers, MusicMatch 10 will work fine with IE7. It's just older versions (like my version 8) that IE7 disables. But I actually paid for that program and I like the way it works so I dumped the IE upgrade and went back to 6.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 10:20 PM

There seems to be some of the same confusion with "Norton" as with "Explorer."


That confusion was on your end, John. I stated quite clearly on January 28 that my beef lay with there being no option in Norton System Works to turn off a nag to set my Windows Auto Update to "Automatic". You just assumed I was talking about NAV and kept hammering at me that I was mistaken.

Now that I've pointed out AGAIN that it was Norton System Works that I was talking about (and why I bought that program), you decide to insult my intelligence for choosing to install that suite instead of just saying "Oh, I see."

I've got a lot of respect for you, John, and the great amount of technical help you offer people gratis around here, but I don't see why you feel you have to take a rather verbose cheap shot like that.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 09:10 PM

Liz

Re: 26 Jan 07 - 02:46 AM

Manitas upgraded ours this week. Now I can't send any emails. I can receive them still, but can't reply. It tells me I'm not connected and I've got an invalid address.

One question would be:

Has anyone on your machine used MSN EXPLORER, and has it been "upgraded" it to ver 6 or later?

A second is: What program do you use to send and receive your email?

Answers here are not required, but MSN EXPLORER commonly screws with your email setup, even if the setup is in a program that's not supposed to be related to it.

The most common problem occurs with people using Outlook or Outlook Express and receiving mail using the POP3 mail protocol. These problems are supposed to happen only for people using MSN or Hotmail email accounts; but the record and reputation for MSN EXPLORER performance suggest otherwise.

Note that reputations held by both Yahoo and AOL are comparable to MSN's.

Installing MSN EXPLORER, ver 6 or later, and accessing your email account will result in your email being moved to a different server that does not permit POP3 email. Since MSN assumes that you will ONLY access email using MSN EXPLORER, it probably will not update the new server location in any other programs.

You may, or may not be able to see old messages in Outlook or OE, but you usually WILL NOT see any new ones. Normally you will still be able to send email from either program, but will not receive any new email.

Your address book will also be moved to the new server. Your old addy book, on your local machine or at the previous server, is supposed to remain accessible via Outlook or OE, but may or may not necessarily be accessible to other Office programs. You can of course add new addresses to your new "server based" address book, but will be unable to add them directly to your old book on your own machine.

The only "technical information" that MSN offers is that "this allows you to access your email from any computer anywhere in the world using only your web browser."

While that's nominally true, without rather significant changes, using html mail and a web browser:

1. You cannot save a local copy (on your own machine) of an email message.

2. You can only access your email if you're connected to the web – many times even for messages you've already "downloaded" and read.

3. You cannot easily have a local copy of your address book, on your own machine.

The transfer of your email and address book files to the html-only server is IRREVOCABLE.

You can "restore" you email service by logging in with all the "correct" credentials, but once the migration to the new server is made, you CANNOT use any email protocol other than html, so far as I've been able to tell. If your current account settings are incorrect, you can call MSN to get the new server location, but with a Hotmail account the only support available (for your email) is by email.

So far as I've seen, you should still be able to use Outlook or Outlook Express, and/or other email programs, but you will probably have to change the email protocol to html only, which disables many of the controls and features otherwise available in the programs.

You do not receive MSN e-mail messages in Outlook or in Outlook Express outlines the MSN EXPORER problem in the first couple of paragraphs.

While this is all directly applicable only to MSN, MSN EXPLORER, Outlook, and Outlook Express, both Yahoo and AOL have a long history of similar "improvements" with similar incompatibilities with programs other than their own.

MSN EXPLORER is not "just another browser," and it most certainly is NOT "just another version of INTERNET EXPLORER."

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 07:54 PM

There seems to be some of the same confusion with "Norton" as with "Explorer."

"Explorer," used alone, will normally be understood to mean "Windows Explorer." This is the program used to manage files on your computer.

"Internet Explorer" (IE) is the default web browser that comes with Windows. It is REQUIRED in order for Windows explorer to work, and must be updated when security patches are issued, even if you use another browser, if you want to be safe.

"MSN Explorer" is a "third party program" foisted on people to break their email and web browser programs in order to deliver more advertising. IT IS NOT MADE BY, AND FOR THE MOST PART IS NOT SUPPORTED BY, THE SAME PEOPLE WHO BUILD WINDOWS.

"Norton" used alone, will normally be understood to mean Norton Anti-Virus. In some cases it's necessary to know whether a person is talking about a "Norton Internet" version rather than a plain-vanilla Anti-Virus, since "Internet" versions include firewalls, cookie blockers, anti-spam, etc that are NOT necessarily part of the basic Norton Anti-Virus.

"Norton System Works" is an entirely different thing, still produced to help those unable to RTFM and learn that all the tools usually needed are already built into recent Windows versions. Norton AV, and Norton Internet, may be included in the package, but the behaviour of the whole Windows environment can be changed by installing the "Works" parts of the program. Norton Works is mostly harmless, but largely extraneous, although a very few people may find something that's actually useful in it. This will most likely be true for someone trying to "stretch" an inadequate computer for use with a newer OS version that taxes the machinery.

Being clear about which program is involved would be helpful.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: fumblefingers
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 07:37 PM

My IE7 works as advertised and it hasn't caused any problems with MusicMatch.

It all depends on your system and the various software programs you're running. However, there doesn't seem to be any users' manual that explains what works with what.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:28 PM

Stumbling through the Mickeyland Knowledge Base looking for other somethings last night, I did see a comment about a reduced capability for "web chat" and other "real-time" hookups that could be helped by a one-click change to turn off a "quality monitoring" mode in one of the protocols. Since it wasn't related to what I was looking for, I didn't make notes. It will be a while before I get enough coffee down to face getting back to look.

Also noted and postponed; the "Custom Install" at Microsoft Updates was offering a new version (optional) multimedia download, that I postponed because the 40 MB download would have taken over an hour on my connection, and the same speed limit doesn't encourage my use of Flash when I can avoid it.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Bernard
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 12:24 PM

Yes, Cluin - I was using Norton on my old XT, too!

Norton Commander... I've got the windows version of it these days, and still prefer it for most file handling!

Dermod, you will probably need to change security, privacy or content settings. If you have the IE7 icon on your desktop, you can RIGHT click on it and select 'properties' to find the internet settings - otherwise, open IE7 and click on 'Tools' - at the bottom of the list is 'Internet Options'.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: dermod in salisbury
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:24 AM

Just to add to the enlist in case anyone has had the same problem and found a solution, IE7 came as an automatic windows update. Since then, I cannot view Flash content on some websites. I am not alone in this. It is a serious nuisance because I was in the middle of following an online orchestration course which uses Flash to provide score examples with sounds. All vanished, seemingly for good.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:21 PM

Sorry, XP should be XT, above.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:21 PM

I am a longtime Norton user, since using Norton Utilities back in the DOS days on my old XP, but it's getting too bloated and propriatory like Windows itself.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:18 PM

An interesting situation I haven't managed to get to the bottom of yet...

My home PC and my work PC are identical models, except at work I use XP Pro (server based network) and at home I use XP Home (peer to peer network).

IE7 works fine on my home PC (although I had to turn off Webroot's Spy Sweeper before it would install properly), and it appears to install properly on my PC at work - until I come to run it for the first time after rebooting.

Then it hangs with no sign of any activity, and I eventually have to use the three finger salute to terminate it via Task Manager. After uninstalling it, IE6 works fine... so after three attempts I'm leaving it that way for now.

All the other PCs on our network are running it without any problems (although I haven't yet updated the 2003 Server), so it isn't likely to be a server permissions issue or the SonicWall router (with managed McAfee) giving me grief - and I'm the System Administrator...!

When I can find some time I'll try to suss out what's going on, but it's not high on my list of priorities!!

I got fed up with Norton's habits some time ago... it used to be such reliable (and cheap) software, but not any more. These days I use AVG free at home, and pay for SpySweeper on some machines, and am trying the free AVG AntiSpy on one...

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 01:09 PM

By the way, I have Norton's Automatice LiveUpdate turned off (I do it manually) and Norton doesn't nag me about that at all.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:36 AM

John,

I know the difference between a Windows Update and a Norton Update. I run the Norton LiveUpdate check first thing every day when I turn on the computer. And I am saying again that Norton SYSTEM WORKS 2006 (a suite that included NAV and Norton Utilities, Norton Cleanup and a few other utes) nags me about turning on Windows Automatic Update.

When the computer first boots up, the Norton Protection Center checks out the status of the computer, and checks whether my Windows Automatic Update is turned off (i.e. not set to the recommended AUTOMATIC setting). If it is set to anything other than Automatic, I get a naggy yellow exclamation mark in my system tray and a yellow-headered popup window informing me there is a problem (says"!Attention Required - 1 item is affecting your status) and provides a FIX NOW button to fix the problem. Clicking that button resets the Windows update to Automatic. Then, the popup is green with a nice green check mark and an announcement: "Norton Status: Good". No more yellow flashing (I forgot to say it flashes, just to be more naggy) exclamation point. Now Norton is happy.

At that point, I go to Control Panel > Security Center > Automatic Updates and see that it's set to Automatic (recommended). I reset it to the next level down--"Download updates for me but let me choose when to install them"-- and then the yellow naggy is back in my system tray and Norton Protection Center gets all pissy with me again until I reset Windows Update to Automatic again.

So I know it's Norton that's bugging me, but it IS bugging me about Windows Automatic Updates, believe me. And I've searched all through every option and menu in Norton Protection Center (the main boss of the suite) to try and turn off that nag, but there's no way.

I bought the Norton System Works suite because it included NAV and was cheaper than renewing my subscription for another year of updates/virus def files. But when the renewal dates comes around again, I'm uninstalling the whole shittin' match and switching to AVG. Norton used to be a good program, but I'm sick of the yearly bite and the finickyness of the software messing with everything else on the computer. A software update (which LiveUpdate sometimes downloads and installs) messes up my files associations every time too. It's caused me to have to shut off my spellchecker in my Outlook Express; instead of running the spellcheck, it prompts me to insert a Microsoft Works Suite disk to install Microsoft Picture-It (which is already installed) instead. I click cancel and the popup window prompts me 3 more times before it quits... spell checker is never run.

I've found if Norton isn't installed BEFORE everything else on the computer, it doesn't play nice. So, consequently, a software update to it at any later time wreaks hell with things. Norton's just not worth it anymore. The main thing I wanted was the Norton Utilities, especially for the defrag ute. But that doesn't even work so well anymore either.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 12:44 AM

Cluin -

A NORTON AUTOMATIC UPDATE IS NOT THE SAME THING AS A WINDOWS AUTOMATIC UPDATE.
A NORTON AUTOMATIC UPDATE IS NOT THE SAME THING AS A WINDOWS AUTOMATIC UPDATE.
A NORTON AUTOMATIC UPDATE IS NOT THE SAME THING AS A WINDOWS AUTOMATIC UPDATE.
A NORTON AUTOMATIC UPDATE IS NOT THE SAME THING AS A WINDOWS AUTOMATIC UPDATE.

(is there an echo in here?)

Norton offers NORTON AUTOMATIC UPDATES if you have a valid subscription.

NORTON will nag you about turning on NORTON AUTOMATIC UPDATES if you turn it off.

Norton won't normally bug you about turning on WINDOWS AUTOMATIC UPDATES.

Windows (Win2K SP4 and WinXP SP2) offer WINDOWS AUTOMATIC UPDATES, or you can get MICROSOFT AUTOMATIC UPDATES that include all Microsoft programs, if you qualify and sign up for them.

Windows will NOTIFY YOU about WINDOWS AUTOMATIC UPDATES updates when they're downloaded so that you can install them, if they don't install automatically.

Windows (XP) will NAG you about your AV if it's not CURRENT or if it's turned off. Windows doesn't really care WHAT AV you have, but will try to encourage you to have a program and keep it up to date. The "Windows Nag" about AV is a RED shield in the System Tray.

Windows won't nag you about NORTON AUTOMATIC UPDATES since it DOESN'T CARE HOW YOU UPDATE, as long as you do it. Windows will only tell you that your AV is out of date, in about a week, if you turn off NORTON AUTOMATIC UPDATES, but only because your AV is obsolete or not working as it should.

If you're seeing a YELLOW !, it's Norton that's bugging you, not Windows.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 11:09 PM

"Norton should not "bug you" about turning on Windows updates."

Oh yes it does! Norton Protection Center that is part of System Works gives me a nice big yellow exclamation mark in my taskbar system tray and a nice big popup nagging me to turn on automatic updates to "Automatic" and there's no way to stop it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 10:00 PM

hmmm, that's a creative use of the word 'dynamic' I had not thought of...

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 04:48 PM

Well... I am now running Vista so I guess it's IE7 from now on whether I like it or not but... It runs sooo much better on Vista than on XP SP2 (mind you that might be to do with my hardware setup!!!)

I have only one issue with Firefox which hangs waiting for a page to open (not affected on IE7!?!) but it is only affected on a few sites. Perhaps Firefox developers will stop living in dreamland of their totally cross platform browser and sort the problem (b4 the 64bit becomes standard lol).

Really... it's difficult to diagnose a problem with your IE browser or OS without knowing what kind of hardware you are running... if you are running the bare minimum spec then there is an increased likely hood of the processor appearing to hang while it shifts stuff from physical to virtual memory.

As the software bloats more and more over a period of time and more background processes take place (due to virus and malware checking etc.) the demand on a system designed between 4 and 10 years ago will almost definately suffer.

finally... to LTS me dear friend... I have had problems in the past with Yahoo and their POP server which I could only resolve by logging on to their webmail server to switch it back on!!! no idea why it happens but hey that's the dynamic world of computers eh!?!?

Good luck
Houston

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 07:04 PM

Cluin -

Norton should not "bug you" about turning on Windows updates.

Norton will bug you about turning on NORTON updates.

Windows will bug you about turning on NORTON updates.

You can choose whether or not Windows will remind you about Windows updates.

IE7 is considered a Critical update, largely because it incorporates several features that are "beta versions" if you add them to IE6, and a lot of people hadn't figured out they were available and helpful. There is an improved "cookie blocker," an "anti-phishing" plugin, and a "suspect site" identifier that can be quite helpful. The suspect site identifier in particular requires that a larger percentage of users have it and use it, but potentially will be a very good deal as site data is tracked better. Most users who have installed IE7 probably have agreed to the OPTION of allowing the site validator and anti-phishing utilities to provide data to Microsoft about sites visited, but that's entirely optional, and can be turned off by those who are paranoid.

There are some additional things relating to security that are incorporated in IE7 that are not available for IE6, but at present there doesn't appear to be a significant difference in security if your IE6 is current. It's helpful, with IE6, if you've picked up a couple of the beta features, but not really mandatory. With IE7 you can easily turn off any of these as well.

Control of some features that you can have with either IE6 or IE7 is much easier with IE7 - once you learn where the controls are, and future patching likely will be simpler and more complete with IE7.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Grumble.. Windows Internet Explorer 7
From: Cluin
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 04:45 PM

I can turn Windows Automatic Updates off or reset it to notify, but if it is set to any other option than "Automatic" my Norton System works nags the shit out of me to turn it back on. Best I can do is set the Download/Install time to Sunday at 3:00 AM. The lack of options in NSW to turn this nag off bugs my ass.

And I went to the Windows Update site and selected the IE7 Update as "hidden" to avoid installing it again. Another thing that bugs me is Microsoft deciding the IE7 upgrade was a "Critical Update" thus putting it in the queue for automatic download and install by default. It should be an optional download, like the Windows Media Player upgrades are.