BS: KatrinaGate

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 07:51 PM

I'd like to enter Snuffy's above post as Exhibit #198 that the Bushites know thay have no defense of the positions and arguments I put forward some 380 posts ago...

Thanks, Snuffster, for so elequently showin' yer Bushite ass...

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: autolycus
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 06:01 PM

Extremely powerful argumentation there, clear premises, tight logic, all the evidence one could wish for. Eat your heart out Freddy Ayer.


   Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Snuffy
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 05:57 PM

Bobert the Naginite wins by default because he is 100% stupid. Too stupid to recognize a fact when one is presented.

Amos an Bobert are standing side by side.

Someone yells "will the dumbest one step forward"
They both step forward.

So the person yells "will the dumbest one step back"

They both step back.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: autolycus
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 05:45 PM

C (as in Cat), C, and there was me thinking that anyone who votes feels free to badger all the other parties. C.


   Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 07:38 AM

Well, now that you mentioned it, Amos, I had not really given any thought to percentages but perhaps we can settle at 70. Don't really know the guy and judging his intelligence level from afar doesn't seem cricket to me. Probably sorry you brought it up.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 08:31 PM

Hmmmmmm??? I'll put the Wes Ginny Slide Rule on that one, Amos, an see if I can figurate just how stupid GUEST thinks I am???

No matter, here we are at pushin' 400 posts on this thread an' not one Bushite has rebutted anything I have put forward??? Oh sure, they have called names and tries to divert the thread the best they can but as far as I've seen, it's been nuthin' by rope-a-dope on their part, with the emphasis on the dope....

Can I can any Bushite to come up with an intellegent rebuttal??? I mean anything???

Bush blew the crap out of this one and it showed that, inspite of his boasting that his job was to protect the American people, when the smoke cleared, those boastings were nuthin; more than that: boasts....

Yeah, Bush can talk the talk, but he can't walk the walk...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 08:09 PM

Besides, Bobert is much too smart to be even 75% as stupid as you think he is, Guestoid. You are missing the picture big time.

A

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 07:39 PM

Beats the heck out of votin' for corporate shills, GUEST... If you think that Tom Jefferson would vote for a Repubocrat then you are no student of democracy...

And I don't "badger everyone"... Just crooks, liars, thieves and dumb folks... If you ain't in that group than you have nuthin' to fear...

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 07:30 PM

Nothing like voting for someone you know is going to be an automatic loser. This allows that voter to badger everyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 07:09 PM

Yo, Snuff... Nice try but if you'd been 'round here a little longer you'd know that I've made no bones about the fact that I support and vote for the Green Party... Most Dems don't impress me at all...

Bobert (Proud to be Green)

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 04:05 PM

Can only be better than Rummy, Crummy and Dummy.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Snuffy
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 10:09 AM

In other words Bobert will support any asshole as long as he is a Democrat.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Apr 06 - 12:58 AM

Whatever the deal to remove the cars, FEMA will have to approve and pay. Many offers have been made to do work, some speculative and some by outfits with no experience. FEMA must approve and pay.

These concerns are small compared with the slow and low-grade preparations by FEMA and the Corps of Engineers to meet future hurricanes.

The Corpse of Engineers is repairing and rebuilding the levees, etc. only to Category 3 storm level. And this level will not be attained before the hurricane season begins.
"....the U. S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) is on an aggressive path to repair and improve the flood control system. The USACE is on schedule to have repairs to damaged areas completed by June 2006, TO HAVE ALL FEDERAL LEVEES CONSTRUCTED TO AUTHORIZED HEIGHTS BY SEPTEMBER 2007, AND TO HAVE FULLY AUTHORIZED LEVELS OF PROTECTION AND IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SYSTEM COMPLETED BY 2010 (caps mine).
2007? 2010? And only to Category 3 storm levels? Keep your fingers crossed!
Above is from the Advisory on Base Flood Elevations for Jefferson Parish issued by FEMA April 12, 2006. This and other advisories available from the Times-Picayune website, www.nola.com.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 10:08 PM

Bush, if you will recall G-zer, didn't even want the Department of Homeland Security... But after it was formed, it was part of his administration meaning that he was responsible for its successes of failures much like he was responsible for the successes (which there were few) and the failures (of which there were many0 as CEO of Harkin. Inc...

See, what you don't seem tou understand is that what folks on the other side of the isle see in Bush. First, he is incomeptant... He has failed or gone AWOL at everything he has tried... Second, and this is more damning, he isn't smart enough to listen to lots of ideas... Oh yeah, we've all heard the various Bushites on NPR say that he listens to lots of different ideas but, bottom line, when you surround yourself with idealogues who think like you then chances are you aren't getting the big picture...

No matter how much attention you, G-zer, want to pay N.O.'s mayor, all you are doing is trying to shift the the focus away from yer guy's collasal failures... I mean, let's face it, even though you might not admit it, if you had to turn your family's business over, whcih BTW was your only source of retirement income, you wouldn't turn it over to Bush...

As fir me being Mudcat's biggest malcontent??? If that means the one here in the Catbox who most detest's the current corrupt Republican regime, then thanks for the compliment...

Bobert (Malcontent an' proud of it....)

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,G
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 02:30 PM

Agreed that FEMA should be independent. GWB did not want it incorporated into DHS to begin with. I was never able to find why he eventually gave into this scenario I do know he was adamant at first with regard to it not being included.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 02:12 PM

Meanwhile, emergency planners in all of the Gulf coast states (including the ones with Republican governors) are trying to convince the Bush administration to make FEMA an independent agency with presidential oversight (as is was before it was incorporated into the DHS), while they try to prepare for the next hurricane season.

The reason they give being that FEMA as a stand alone agency can be run by people who are experts in managing emergencies, rather than in fighting terrorism.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,G
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 01:59 PM

Wonder why the Mayor did not accept, months ago, the offer from a company that WOULD PAY the city $100 per car. This is a firm that would have brought in crushers and would then sell the scrap to steel mills.

Two things stand out here - 8 months later and the city still has done nothing about the 30,000 autos littering the streets and apparently bobert did not read Snuffy's post very well..........
actually, the last part doen't stand out as it is becoming very apparent that reading and understanding is not a prequisite when one's opinion has been predetermined.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,G
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 01:47 PM

bobert, you are the chief malcontent of Mudcat.

Billions have been give to NO by the Feds. The Mayor is simply utilizing his ineptness as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 01:25 PM

Bottom line, N.O. is broke, as in tapped out, and must rely on FEMA approving the funds... If FEMA approves this contract it will be just one more failure at the federal level, to go with all the rest of them upon which I have allready posted...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Snuffy Smif
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 12:42 PM

Price no object in N.O. car-removal
City appears to choose top-dollar contract
Times-Picayune Wednesday, March 22, 2006
By James Varney
Staff writer

In seeking a contract to remove thousands of flooded and wrecked cars from New Orleans, Mayor Ray Nagin's administration recommended that the city go with the highest quoted price for the job, a review of the 14 proposals submitted last year shows.

It appears the chosen proposal, a $1,000-per-car bid from Colorado-based CH2M Hill, was nearly triple the cost of at least three other bids, records show. The gap between CH2M Hill and the other companies cannot be precisely ascertained, because not every proposal included a price, and some of those that did listed tasks that others did not.

It is clear, however, that CH2M Hill's price has remained relatively constant, because administrators confirmed last week that the contract still being finalized would cost approximately $23 million and the number of uninsured junkers still clogging city streets is between 20,000 and 25,000.

That contrasts with $350 per car, the "firm, fixed price," offered by a consortium led by the Shaw Group, which a five-person review committee ranked as the second-best bid, just two points behind CH2M Hill, according to the committee's scoring sheet.

At least two other offers, from Contingency Management Solutions of Metairie and from MWH Global of Denver, were in the same ballpark as Shaw's, records show.

The contract for removing "abandoned and damaged vehicles" is a professional services one, meaning the mayor is not required by law to select the lowest bidder. On the other hand, price was supposed to figure as 20 percent of each proposal's grade, but the committee gave almost every submission the full 20 points in that category, meaning no advantage accrued to the cheaper submissions.

Jack Dupree, president of Southern Scrap Materials Co., which partnered with Shaw, said those curious figures are a warning sign that the contract doesn't pass the smell test.

"Something's not adding up here," he said. "I've never seen so little transparency in a deal, and it's a mystery why, if you've got a price and picked a winner, nothing has been signed. Why haven't they done it at the price CH2M Hill said they could do it for?"

Controversy has begun to swirl around the issue almost seven months after Katrina made thousands of water-stained, abandoned cars as much a symbol of the city's streets as potholes were before the storm. Queries first arose after revelations that a Texas car-crushing company had offered, in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, to pay the city $100 per junked car. The bid, made informally by K&L Auto Crushers at one of Nagin's town hall meetings, still stands, although the terms would have to be renegotiated, K&L's Dan Simpson said last week.

Making money

A rarely invoked city ordinance could also pave the way for the rapid and potentially lucrative removal of the vehicular blight, according to some legal experts.

At the original price and with the original estimate of 30,000 flooded cars, K&L's offer would have netted the cash-starved city $3 million. In contrast, the city is proceeding with the CH2M Hill deal, which includes towing, cataloging and storing the cars at an estimated cost of about $23 million, administrators said.

Thus, even at somewhat lower rates, the city would have taken in more than $3 million if it went with K&L or one of the other car-crushing companies that have proposed similar arrangements, according to the State Police.

Meanwhile, as some national conservative pundits pounded Nagin on the topic this week, the administration appeared to circle its wagons. Neither the mayor nor his staffers have answered questions about the car-removal contract in the past few days.

In the face of the Nagin administration's silence, New Orleans City Council members questioned the deal, with some of them saying a costly arrangement makes no sense if feasible money-making ideas are on the table.

"It seems to me it would have made sense to investigate this," said Councilwoman Renee Gill Pratt. "If someone was willing to pay us money, why wouldn't we want to do that and save money, too?"

Gill Pratt said she plans to raise the issue at the council's budget committee meeting Thursday.

Slow pace?

Council members also expressed frustration at the protracted pace of events. In an interview last week before the car-crushing offers and proposal discrepancies made headlines, Parking Administrator Richard Boseman estimated it could be another six months from the time the deal is signed before the cleanup is finished, though he held out hope it could be quicker. Either way, it's been too long, Councilman Jay Batt argued.

"To take six more months at least, when maybe we could have the cars off the street right now? That's just ridiculous," he said.

Batt said he's not sure the car-crusher options are solid, given they have been presented informally. Nevertheless, if the Nagin administration were less secretive about its contracting practices, some of this embarrassment might have been avoided, Batt said.

"The mayor is tweaking his contracts while the streets look terrible," he said.

Such comments suggest the pending contract with CH2M Hill, whose press office has also not responded to phone calls, is poised to become another contentious issue between a council and an administration already at odds on a host of post-Katrina spending matters.

More spending matters could arise when the second half of the car job is being considered.

In the short term, the city is simply inking a deal with CH2M Hill to cart off the cars and warehouse them. Future work, on the other hand, will involve a second contract that includes the remediation and recycling of environmentally hazardous materials and then the scrapping of the cars. In theory, the city could make some money back at that point, but the outline of that contract hasn't even been sketched out yet, let alone advertised, officials said.

The holdups on the current contract remain maddeningly vague to some players such as Dupree of Southern Scrap. City officials said they are simply awaiting the green light from FEMA, which could reimburse the city 100 percent of the costs if it approves the contract. But the Federal Emergency Management Agency said it is waiting on paperwork from the city.

Dupree accused the city of shifting the scope of the work and blamed some of the delays on those constant changes.

"The scope of this thing has been changed by the city four or five times already," he said. "This whole thing should be much further along, and we're severely frustrated by what's happened."

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 06 - 09:09 AM

Yeah, Q, looks as if 60% og the repairs to the levee is still incomplete and when completed will only protect N.O. from a Cat 2 storm???

Insanity: Repeating a behavior expecting different results (Einstien)...

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Q as guest
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 10:44 PM

I doubt that that there has ever been a worse president.

The next hurricane season is only about 100 days away. I am afraid it may lead to another (name of hurricane)gate.
Work on the waterways and levees (federal) is way too slow.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 08:55 PM

Well, given the latest reports by both the Congress and even the White House it is apparent that Bush was no more prepared to "protect the American people", irregardless of what causes the catastrophy, than before 9/11...

Even Michael Brown went on network news and when asked what he would say to Bush if he could, Brown said "told you so"...

These were the arguments that I presented here in this thread a long time ago and they stiull hold solid today...

I refresh this thread now and then just as a reminder to the blind Bushite's here that all is not well with the Bush administration...

Yeah, I know that the Bushites have long conceeded that Bush screwed this up and, hence, prolly won't even post to this thread but, hey, here is proff positive that Bush is a screw up and a liar and I'll refresh this thread now and then until Bush is no longer a menace to the United States and the world...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:49 PM

Might be better than you constantly making Chicken sh*t out of Chicken salad.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 08:20 AM

In hiding, Bruce...

They are awaiting their marching orders and talking points... Stay tuned... The report comes out tomorrow and you can bet the Karl Rove and the boys are busily making chicken salad out of chicken sh*t...

But you can bet that Rove will have the Bushites up to speed soon...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Peace
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 01:47 PM

Where are the loudmouths who were defending the actions of the Federal administration while the folks in NO were getting knocked down?

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 12:43 PM

Yeah, Amos, yer right... Seesm that the House Repubs, believe it or not, are on the verge of issuing a report which is highly critical of Bush and his administration's handling of Katrina!!!

House Repubs!!!

Hey, I could almostr believe the Senate doing this but the House Repubs just don't do this, no matter what...

Have ya noticed the recent "silence" from the Bushites on this thread, Amos???

I can't believe that Karl Rove is going to conceed this point. Maybe these guys finally have figured out that they can't just lie their ways outta screw ups...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 11:05 AM

Republicans brand Katrina response a national failure

· Bush and his homeland security chief singled out
· Details leaked as New Orleans enjoys parade

Dan Glaister in Los Angeles
Monday February 13, 2006
The Guardian


The response to Hurricane Katrina was "a national failure" and "an abdication of the most solemn obligation to provide for the common welfare", according to details from the first of three anticipated reports into the disaster, published yesterday.
The report, by a committee of Republicans in the Houseof Representatives, declared that "all the little pigs built houses of straw".

The report, entitled A Failure of Initiative, is due to be published on Wednesday. It criticises the homeland security chief, Michael Chertoff, saying his detachment from events led him to implement federal emergency response measures "late, ineffectively or not at all". ...

(The Guardian, 2-13-06)

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 10:07 PM

Hmmmmmmmmm, AR??? Does give a feller food fir thought, don't it???

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 11 Feb 06 - 10:44 PM

You know what's strange? I ran across the term "femy provinces." I wondered what that meant and found a definition. Femy provinces are provinces under military administration. Femy is the plural usage. The singular is fema.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Feb 06 - 06:14 PM

Well, well, well, Amos...

I am speachless here... I figured by now Karl Rove would have this one covered like ugly on a gorilla??? Is he on vacation, too???

I mean, here we have the usual cast of Muscat Bush apologists pacing the floor waiting for their "talking points" so they can jump right in with guns a' blazin' accusing this guy or that guy for this or that but what do we have???

Silence???

No, it ain't me that is speachless... It's the Bushites here... I can't believe my ears!!! What, are they going to just conceed a point??? This ain't like 'um at all, Amos...

I'm worried... No, more like concerned... Maybe they is grouping behind a bush (pun inteneded) waiting to jump out like boogiemen???

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 06 - 11:16 AM

ASHINGTON Feb 11, 2006 (AP)— Top White House officials were warned that Hurricane Katrina would be "our worst nightmare" the day the storm roared ashore, former federal disaster chief Michael Brown says.

An assertive Brown told senators Friday that he described levee failures and massive flooding last Aug. 29 to chief of staff Andrew Card, deputy chief of staff Joe Hagin and others in the White House.

He said the Homeland Security Department was among a half-dozen government agencies that received regular briefings that day from him and other officials by way of video conference calls.

Administration officials have said they did not realize the severe damage Katrina had caused until after the storm had passed. But under oath, Brown told the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee he could not explain why his appeals failed to produce a faster response.

"I expected them to cut every piece of red tape, do everything they could … that I didn't want to hear anybody say that we couldn't do everything they humanly could to respond to this," Brown said about a video conference with administration officials in which President Bush briefly participated the day before Katrina hit. "Because I knew in my gut this was the bad one."

In the end, the hurricane claimed more than 1,300 lives, uprooted hundreds of thousands more and caused tens of billions of dollars worth of damage in New Orleans and other Gulf Coast communities.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 05:54 PM

Let me also refer back to Brown's earlier testimony before a Congressional comitte when he said he personally told Bush on Saturday, August ***27th****, that the Gulf Coast was about to be hit by upwards of a Cat 5 hurricane...

Thias was two full days before the storm hit!!!

What did Bush do??? Well, for one, he kept on vacationing... After that he flew to California for a little politicin'....

Might have even given his patented "My job is to protect the American people" BS/lie speech???

Coming up: The Natiional Response Plan that was written by Bush's inner circle... Yeah, the Bushites here haven't responded to my original thoughts on the NRP but....

What's the sound??? Can it be the NRP train coming 'round the bend??? Lordy, Lordy, thias is lookin' worser and worser for drunk-frat-boy and the inner circle...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 02:28 PM

The New York Times also had the story today about the ignored message and the failure to move. Brown is showing the bush administration was critically negligent. The aerial photo, reproduced in the Times, shows the breaks in the 17th Street Canal, taken the day Katrina arrived by a federal emergency official, needs no words.
A FEMA official heard of the break in the morning, hitched a ride on a helicopter and confirmed the seriousness of the break, then telephoned his report to headquarters in Washington. Chertoff received the report at 9:27 pm that night. White House officials have now confirmed that they received the report.
The president is caught in his lie.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 12:15 PM

Also from CBS:

A timeline of e-mails, situation updates and weather reports, pieced together by Senate Democrats, indicates the Bush administration knew as early as 8:30 a.m. on Aug. 29 about levee failures that would ultimately lead to massive flooding of the city and its surrounding parishes.

White House spokesman Trent Duffy said President Bush and his top aides were fully aware of the massive flooding, and less concerned whether it was caused by levee breaches, overtoppings or failed pumps, all three of which were being reported at the time.

"We knew there was flooding and that's why the No. 1 effort in those early hours was on search and rescue, and saving life and limb," Duffy said.

Shortly after the disaster, Mr. Bush said, "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." He later said his comment was meant to suggest that there had been a false sense of relief that the levees had held when the storm passed, only to break a few hours later.

Democrats said the documents showed there was little excuse for the tardy federal response.

"The first communication came at 8:30 a.m.," said Senator Joe Lieberman, top Democrat on the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee. "So it is inexplicable to me how those responsible for the federal response could have woken up Tuesday morning unaware of this obviously catastrophic situation."

....


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm????

Mebbe hangovers?



A

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 12:12 PM

(CBS/AP) Top Department of Homeland Security officials were told that New Orleans' levees were breached the day that Hurricane Katrina roared ashore, former disaster chief Michael Brown said Friday, contradicting previous statements by agency officials who said they did not know the levees were toppling until the next day.

"I find it a little disingenuous," Brown, who at the time headed the Federal Emergency Management Agency, told a Senate oversight committee. "For them to claim that we didn't have awareness of it is just baloney."

Brown also told senators that decisions and policies by the parent Homeland Security Department doomed FEMA to "a path to failure" that led to the government's slow response to the storm. He said that because of a focus on terrorism, natural disasters "had become the stepchild of the Department of Homeland Security."

Brown, who quit under fire as chief of the FEMA just days after the Aug. 29 storm devastated much of the Gulf Coast area, said that FEMA's mission was marginalized when it was swallowed by the newly created Homeland Security agency.

"There was a cultural clash that didn't recognize the absolute inherent science of preparing for a disaster," he told the Senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee. "Any time you break that cycle ... you're doomed to failure."

He added: "The policies and decisions implemented by the DHS put FEMA on a path to failure."

Brown, who resigned shortly after the storm, is widely considered the public face of the government's sluggish response to Katrina. Brown is expected to start naming names of "who knew what the day Katrina hit," CBS News correspondent Susan Roberts reports.

A management audit prepared by former FEMA Administrator Michael Brown months before the Aug. 29 storm showed that the agency had a lack of adequate and consistent situational awareness to size up emergencies, and was unable to properly control inventory and track assets, said Sen. Susan Collins, a Maine Republican heading the oversight hearing. The audit, she said, also showed that FEMA misunderstood standard response procedures.

"Despite this study, key problems simply were not addressed and, as a result, opportunities to strengthen FEMA prior to Katrina were missed," she said.

In documents released before Friday's hearings, twenty-eight government agencies reported that New Orleans levees were breached the day Hurricane Katrina roared ashore, raising questions about whether the government moved quickly enough to rescue people once they realized the levees had broken. ...

COmplete article here.


A

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,P
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 10:36 AM

I was thrilled to hear Michael Brown would 'sing' about the 'who cares' attitude the White House had to storm.

But then I realized, he's not going to sing. He's just extorting Bush to cover his legal fees. That sterling character is really coming through again.   

You find yourself unable to tell children to work hard and be honest, and they'll do well in life. They won't. They'll wind up laid off or left to die by creeps like Brown and Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 08:41 AM

Well, well, well....

Looks as if time lines and organization/funding issues are about to come 'round the bend as Michale Brown is set to testify yet again...

Unless he changes his testimony, maybe a few of the Bushi8tes will have to pay a little closer attention this time around...

One thing for sure, since the last testimony, the Bush-bloggers have had months to twist the lies into a more believable "product"...

Oughtta be interesting...

At least this time the Bushites here in Mudville will have their talking points to go by which hasn't been the case up until now with the obvious floundering on their part...

Bobert (Columbo)

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 10:07 PM

Yeah, Q, Bush brags about allm this dough that he's budgeteed for Katrina but of the $85B he ain't written checks yet for much more than $15B...

When the smoke clears this will be like rebuilding Iraq... And we know how that is coming.... Might of fact, Bush announced that he's all done rebuilding Iraq even though he never really spent too much rebuilding it to begin with...

Heck, I'd be surprised to see the Bush folks spend $30B in total before saying, "Sorry, ain't our problem..."

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 10:01 PM

Bush baby mentioned that $85 billion for Katrina again in his state of the onion address, but so far it doesn't look like any has gone to rebuilding levees, hospitals, or housing.
FEMA, is still alive enough to make noises, but it will become road kill before too long.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 08:26 PM

Trying to breath any life back into a gutted FEMA is like giving a transfusion to a dead man... Bush and his boys drove a stake right thru FEMA's heart in bustin' it from a cabinet level posotion and slashing it's budget...

And now we are hearing that Bush doesn't want to spend the dough to get the levee's up to Cat 5???

Well, yeah, if the feds ain't gonna do what they are supposed to do in getting the levves up to Cat 5 then, hey, even I would qustion rebuilding in the 9th Ward and other low areas...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Feb 06 - 05:48 PM

Saw in the New York Times that many people are asking for, and getting re-assessment of the percentage damage to their houses.
According to the guidelines, if a house is deemed to have more than 50% damage, it should be destroyed.
Most people who have appealed, however, have succeeded in getting the percentage of damage reduced to under 50%, so they can go ahead and repair and rebuild.
FEMA, etc., want the houses to be above a certain elevation so that they are unlikely to be flooded again, but there is no such requirement in City regulations.

What the outcome will be is up in the air at this time. FEMA is too slow with their evalutions and plans, and is losing credibility. People are just going ahead and doing their thing.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 06:25 PM

Thanks fir the usual attacks, mild as they are, G-zer and T-zer... Must mean that I still got both of you wondering how to defend Bush and hios administartion against the arguments I put forth, ohhhh, well over three hundred posts ago... To which, BTW, I have yet to get an honest rebuttal... Lots of attacks, however, which is good... No, it's real, real good 'cause it means that you guys don't have any defense...

And given the recent GAO reports, I don't blame you all for sand-baggin'... I would too if I was trying to defend Bush and his boys on this one... Yeah, I would be doing Mohammed Ali's rope-a-too, too...

But, neither of you two have good poker faces.... Not does old Guy... But I admire you fir satying in the game knowing deep inside that the old hillbilly got the strongest hand here...

So keep attacking... I love it...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,G
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 05:20 PM

Two words, Bobert;   Cat Scan.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 02:33 PM

Tsk, tsk, T. There's plenty of material for your needs here. Resorting to slurs on Bobert, well, it's just beneath you.

A

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 02:24 PM

Refresh:

"Oh Please Don't let poor Nelly die"

The "Nellie" in this case being the only stated example of a thread where Bobert proclaimed that he has done his homework, but as yet has singularly failed to prove it. As such this thread should in all sincerity be preserved for posterity.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 02:26 PM

Guest Dazbo- mostly right.

1. It seems that soil tests were inadequate. They are now bringing in better quality clay from the Gulf and tests are being carried out.

2. Yes, the marshlands are decreasing at an alarming rate. Not only does this threaten the City, but valuable breeding grounds for aquatic and terrestrial life are lost.

3. The Corps of Engineers are responsible for building and maintaining the levees along navigable waterways, but- U. S. Congress must authorize the funds. And not only must Congress authorize the funds, but there are several committees and agencies that oversee the spending. These agencies can hold up expenditures almost indefinitely.

4. Various plans call for the restoration of parts of St. Bernard and Jefferson Parishes to marshland. A report due in April (?) will have maps incorporating recommendations. How these plans will be implemented, revised or ignored will be the subject of long debate.

5. Not only pumping of the water from underground, but pumping of oil caused lowering of ground level. Moreover, natural compaction of the soft, clayey sediments over time is a large contributor.

6. "New Orleans" is a metropolitan ares extending over three parishes. The greatest damage was in the Ninth and parts of the Seventh wards in the core area, and in St. Bernard Parish. These were the areas most affected by the failure of levees and walls along navagable waterways.

Estimates vary on how much housing was destroyed (cannot be reclaimed); perhaps 60% in the Ninth ward, 30-40% in the southern part of the Seventh Ward. Until a complete survey, house-by-house, is compiled, these figures will continue to vary. Areas of the City to the west and also south (Gretna, etc.) of the river sustained some wind damage, but most housing was not seriously affected.

Until the government assessment maps are completed (late Spring?), an accurate numerical assesment of the damage cannot be made.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Dazbo
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 09:01 AM

Don't know if this is repeating anything from above (forgive me if I haven't got the time to read this mighty tome) but on the BBC last night there was a programme on New Orleans and Katrina. Some of the points raised on the telly by the talking heads were:

The building of the levees didn't take into account the soil, which is a soft clay likened to playdough, and as a result the levees were a lot weaker than they were planned to be.

Due to man's intervention the coastal marshes and islands that have attenuated the power of hurricans in the past have been lost making the city even more vulnerable.

The Corps of Engineers don't have the mandate of the government (Senate or Congress - I can't remember) or the money to rebuild the levees to anything other than what was there before Katrina (i.e. the same strength as those that failed).

That large areas of the city that were destroyed shouldn't be rebuilt, especially as the hurricanes are currently getting bigger, stronger and more frequent.

The more reclamation that gets done the more vunlerable the city becomes (less protection from the weather and lowering the ground level even more due to the pumping out of the ground water behind the levees).





It was horrifying to see just how devastated New Orleans is now the flood waters have been pumped out.

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 08:25 AM

No, Old Guy, apparently we still ain't on the same page and they way you keep gloassing over the rerality of Katrina like it was a debate over how many angels can stand on the end of a pin, it is unlikely that you can be brou7ght around to reality...

Most cities have Offices of Emergency Preparednesses... Big deal... Like I said, they are for managable disasteres. Katrina wasn't a managable disaster at the local level and based on ther damage to Mississippi it wasn't even managable on the state level..

Maybe you remembwer after 9/11 the issue of "first reponders" and the mayors and governors pleaded with Bush to put his money where hios mouth was in funding them... Yeah, Bush didn't mind pumping out his chest and boasting about "protecting Americans" but he wrote checks to local and states like man with no arms...

Thus, Katrina..

And thus, the buck is finding it's way where it belongs...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 12:40 AM

The plan is laughable. It was never more than a piece of paper. No 'Office of emergency preparedness' was ever set up and no federal coordinators were on site.
In order to implement the plan, federal, state, parish and city governments would have to agree to change and coordinate regulations in order to act in concert. The City and parishes could not afford to spend the sums necessary. Perhaps more important, the political rift between south Louisiana and the rest of the state would have to be resolved before actions could be contemplated and money appropriated. Like most cities, New Orleans is always playing catch-up, since taxes barely cover expenses.
The plan completely ignores federal responsibility under Title 33 for protection along the waterways.

Even if this cloud 8 1/2 plan had been well along, there is no way a city- any major city- could be evacuated in the lead time given.