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BS: KatrinaGate
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 11 Jan 06 - 11:12 PM Geoduck, you're just looking for an opportunity to get a few Democrats out of the government. You don't give a poop about actually solving any problems. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 11 Jan 06 - 10:52 PM Problem is that all these links are dated, Duck.... Yeah, at the time, there were all kinmds of reports, 99% now debunked.... You are running old crap here, pal... Get with the here and now.... Old lies are nuthin more than that: old lies, or mis-whatevers... Don't matter much... Old (and badly reprorted) ews that ain'ty got any base of reaslity is just another lie in the big scheme of things... Hey, what if I say that duck is messing with ltttle boys??? And like a few folks say that, yeah, du7ck is messin' with little boys and then it tunrns out that duck ain't messin' with little boys but only a few of the folks who said he/she is retratced their claims??? Then to hald the fols out there you still messin' with little boys.... This is exactly what has happened with the "sniper story"... I have heard doctors on non-Fox networks saying the story was false... Hey, these dotor would have known since they were the folks who were suupposedly being fired on... This is nuthin' more than racist mythology!!! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Geo duck Date: 11 Jan 06 - 10:39 PM You are suffering from Bobertosis Blindicus Termunus: "NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- The evacuation of patients from Charity Hospital was halted Thursday after the facility came under sniper fire" twice. http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.hospital.sniper/ NPR: "The situation in New Orleans continues to deteriorate, with widespread flooding and looting. The evacuation of thousands of people from the Superdome in the city was halted early Thursday when shots were fired at military helicopters. There are reports of armed carjackings."http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4828774 La Times: "Snipers fire on rescue efforts, and corpses litter public areas as rage builds among refugees.." http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access/890812981.html?dids=890812981:890812981&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Sep+2%2C+2005&author=Ellen+Barry%2C+Scott+Gold+and+Stephen+Braun&pub=Los+Angeles&edition=&startpage=A.1&desc=IN+KATRINA%27S+AFTERMATH%3A+CHAOS+AND+SURVIVAL Are you talking about one incident on a certain bridge? "But nearly three months later — and after repeated revisions of the official account of the incident and a lowering of the death toll to two — authorities said they were still trying to reconstruct what happened Sept. 4 on the Danziger Bridge. And on the city's east side, where the shootings occurred, two families that suffered casualties are preparing to come forward with stories radically different from those told by police." http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2005/251105sniperincident.htm Well how about the others? Does the LA Times, CNN and NPR watch Fox and repeat what they say? Oh Class, Class, Please be quiet. Perfesser Spongebobert has an announcementto make: "There were no snipers in New orleans. That was propaganda spread by Fox News. Pay no attention to that man behind the screen. Now let us continue with our anti-Bush agenda" |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 11 Jan 06 - 10:00 PM Snipers, Duck????? Oh, Fox never got around to retracting the "Snipers Lie"... This explains alot about where you are coming from. Fox ain't news... It is propaganda... Snipers, Duck??? You must be one of about 10 people left in the world that doen't know that story was debunked months ago... I am disappoined in you... I thought you might be a worthy advesary but if yer entire universe is defined by Fox propaganda and lies then I will have to reconsider yer application... However, I will keep it on file... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Geoduck Date: 11 Jan 06 - 09:39 PM I ain't Q or A or G If the National Guard from other states goes into New Orleans with all the snipers around, they need to defend themselves. They need to be turned over and put under local control using the correct protocol or they are not able to legaly shoot back or arrest anybody shooting at them. That would be inforcing the law. And what was wrong with making the request? What was so hard about it? Just some stupid political reason that cost people their lives. Anybody that can't itemize what they need is not worthy of cooking breakfast much less running a state. Nobody is refuting the stuff that Marion dug up so it must all be true. As a sidebar: "A former political aid to William Jefferson (D-LA), Brett Pfeffer, 37, pleaded guilty to aiding and abetting bribery of a public official and conspiracy. Pfeffer faces 20 years in federal prison for his part in collecting bribes in exchange for Jefferson's help in promoting a pair of business deals in Africa, according to court documents filed Wednesday." http://www.axcessnews.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=7562 Nah. No corruption in Louisianna and definately no corruption by Democrats. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 11 Jan 06 - 09:34 PM Thank you, Q, for this informative post... Yeah, the Bush apologists here like neat little pigeon holes in which to shift the blame... Ain't that easy... Hey, it was the Bush administartion, after 9/11 that said "We are on the case..." Yeah, Bush loved to pump out his chest and proclaim "My job is to protect the American people".... Problem is that when we look closely at Bush's actual performance he was too busy fleecing the middle class by redistributing wealth toward the wealthy and away from the middle class to be too engaged in really working towrad protecting America from much of anything... In demoting FEMA, he actually made Americans less safe??? The evidence is in one this one... The only folks who can't accept this are the most "true beleivin' Bush brownshirts"... And here we are some 5 months later and what we are seeing is no real well defined federal response???? Maybe Bush hasn't been told he is no longer the Governor of Texas but President of the United States... Or maybe they have but them pretzels jst keep it from sinkin' in... Or maybe, ahhhh, there's little for which it to sink into??? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jan 06 - 09:16 PM The New Orleans Commission to seek overhaul..., has called on authorities to close the Mississippi River-Gulf Outlet, a shortcut for shipping from the River to the coast which cuts through a corner of the City. This outlet was a major source of the water which flooded the eastern, predominantly Black half of the City (Orleans Parish) when the storm surge roared up from the Gulf Coast. As a shipping route, the Federal government authorities are responsible for the Outlet. Local authorities have reached a consensus that it should be closed; opened in the 1960's, for years it has been little used and serves as a conduit for destructive saltwater into freshwater wetlands. Port of New Orleans authorities object to closure, and may be supported by federal authorities. See New York Times, article by Gary Devlin, January 11, 2006, 'New Orleans Commission....' The Navigation Canal levee failures was responsible for the rest of the water entering the Ninth Ward and adjacent areas of Orleans Parish. This Canal also is the responsibility of the Federal government. Blame is thrown on City authorities for failure to use buses, but licensed drivers could not be found, and the worst hit areas of Metro could not be reached. The so-called ghost train could have helped a few hundred in its neighborhood, providing that timing was satisfactory, a point in dispute, and it was not accessible to those who needed evacuation most. People who do not know the situation look on New Orleans as a City under unified control, which it is not. Slightly more than half the citizens of Metro New Orleans live (lived) outside of the City boundaries, and are subject to the governments of adjacent cities, and the authorities of Jefferson and Orleans Parishes. The closure of the bridge to Gretna, across the River and a city only slightly affected by water, was effected by Gretna and Jefferson Parish authorities. The City of Kenner, between New Orleans and the Airport, refused shelters. The City has no authority in these and other suburban 'cities', although no boundaries are discernable. The Governor is similarly handicapped because of the deep chasm between the politicians of the northern part of the State and the region around New Orleans. Decisions on major waterways are Federal, and he finds himself largely in an advisory position. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 11 Jan 06 - 07:49 PM Okay, CarolC.... You pound 'um low and I'll pound 'um high... 'er vice versa... Anyway, one thing fir sure is that that ain't gonna get away with their usual proclaimations and sandbaggin'... One thing that i8s becoming increasingly evdient to me, however, and that is that these folks will pull any trick outta the bag... Must be nice to have the corporate big boys throwing tens upon millions into the rightie blogs to give these folks their talking points... Problem is when the corporations are late to the battle as in this thread cause here we are with well over 200 posts and I have yet to have one trespond directly to the original arguments that I offered in thes thread... Yeah, I've been called a lot of names whcih is their usaul stall tactics when the corporate apologist haven't gotten the talkin' points to these GUEST's and so they use the name calling and attacks on me as a stall tactic... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 11 Jan 06 - 07:09 PM All Blanco had to do was ask, Instead she played a game of expecting others to do things without being told to do so she can not be blamed for anything. She did ask. And she worded her request according to how such requests are supposed to be worded. Peace has posted dozens of links to the exact wording of her request in the many other threads on this subject. I'll try to find one of them for you when I get a chance. It's ok, Bobert. I think people ought to know the extent to which Bush has hoodwinked people who consider themselves to be "conservative" into believing he is one of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 11 Jan 06 - 05:55 PM CarolC, Warning: They are trying to suck you into the details because they have no asnwer to the more fundamental question of why, especially after 9/11, the Bush administartion blinked when the chips were down... But beyond Bush blinking there is a larger question of whether or not the Bush adminstartion, since it doesn't like outside opinions and loves to operate in secret, had taken steps to "protect American citizens... In demoting and gutting FEMA, it's no surprise that FEMA, even though it wasn't ordered into the fray way too late, came up short on organization, communication and product...I can't help that a 90's FEMA would have been more up to the task... This is Bush's fault... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 11 Jan 06 - 05:25 PM Posse Comitatus forbids the US (federal) forces for being used in a law enforcement capacity. It wasn't necessary for federal forces to be used in a law enforcement capacity in Louisiana. As I said before, they could, and should have been used in a non-law enforcement capacity while the state forces (Louisiana National Guard) were used in a law enforcement capacity. This is what the United States Coast Guard site has to say about it. I assume you will accept that they don't have a "bias" in this regard. http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/comrel/factfile/Factcards/PosseComitatus.html "'POSSE COMITATUS ACT' (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to 'execute the laws' except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from Navy ship/aircraft involvement. Had I been in Governor Blanco's shoes at that particular moment in history, I might not have known what day it was either. And you are a clown. But not the good kind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Geoduck Date: 11 Jan 06 - 05:12 PM Without using your bias and prejudice explain why and how PC does not apply? Back it up with some facts like the actual text from the law. All Blanco had to do was ask, Instead she played a game of expecting others to do things without being told to do so she can not be blamed for anything. Does the words "I don't know what day it is" convey a sense of leadership and responsibility? You assume any charges made of a Democrat are politicaly motivated. If Democrats never make mistakes or do anything wrong, that might apply most of the time but some times they do apply. I think in this case the local government is shifting to blame to the federal government. You are like some people that yell racist any and everytime a black person is accused of something. Is it possible that some black people do something wrong once in a while? If somebody yells racist every time, how can thay be punished when they do something wrong? Now you can proceed with your rant on me being a racist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 11 Jan 06 - 04:55 PM Yes, I know what Posse Comitatus is. And it had zero application in this situation. Your comment about it is a red herring. The Louisiana National Guard should have been used for law inforcement purposes, and National Guard from other states and other US forces should have been used for non-law enforcement kinds of support. Bush wants to make Posse Comitatus an issue in this context because he's a big government, more power for the executive branch kind of guy. He wanted to use it to enlarge the government, and his power. And he wanted to further erode states' rights. That's why he's a radical and not a conservative. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Geoduck Date: 11 Jan 06 - 03:47 PM The train is one small example of the gross ineptitude of the local Government. And how does it relate to partisan politics except that you want to block out any evidence of mistakes by the local governmnet and concentrate on QWB whom you hate for winning the electiuon? Do you know what Posse Comitatus is? "Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both." The Gov has to authorise it or it is uncostitutional for federal troops to enforce the law. Dis she do it? No she kept saying "24 hours" finally before the 24 hours was up Bush faxed something for her to sign to cede control to the feds as per the law requires. If Bush had done it as you said he should, you would be demandinq that he be sent to jail for two years. "We need everything you've got" is not authorisation for anything. Brownie even asked personally and specifically what they needed and never got an answer. Why not drop the mental baggage and make a fresh start? What one thing would have solved the problem? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 11 Jan 06 - 02:36 PM That ghost train makes a pretty good rallying cry for people who care more about partisan politics than they do about people. But that train would not have solved the problem. And Blanco was right about deciding to not cede control of the Louisiana troops. There was absolutely no reason for Bush to ask her to do so. And if he did withhold support to Louisiana because she did not cede control of the troops, he did it for political reasons, and he is directly responsible for any problems arising from that political ploy. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: CITY OF NEW ORLEANS (Steve Goodman) From: GUEST,Wiggy Date: 11 Jan 06 - 02:24 PM CITY OF NEW ORLEANS (Steve Goodman) As recorded by Steve Goodman on "Steve Goodman" (1971) 1. Ridin' on the City of New Orleans, Illinois Central, Monday mornin' rail, There are fifteen cars and fifteen restless riders, Three conductors and twenty-five sacks of mail. They're all out on the southbound odyssey, And the train pulls out o' Kankakee, Rolls along past houses, farms, and fields, Passin' towns that have no name, And freight yards full of old black men, And the graveyards of rusted automobiles. Singin': Good mornin', America; how are you? Sayin': Don't you know me? I'm your native son. Yes, I'm the train they call the City of New Orleans, And I'll be gone five hundred miles when day is done. 2. And I was dealin' cards with the old men in the club car, And it's penny a point; there ain't no one keepin' score. Won't you pass that paper bag that holds that bottle? You can feel the wheels grumblin' through the floor. And the sons of Pullman porters, the sons of engineers, They ride their fathers' magic carpet made of steam; And mothers with their babes asleep go rockin' to the gentle beat. The rhythm of the rails is all they dream. Just a-singin': Good mornin', America; how are you? Sayin': Don't you know me? I'm your native son. And I'm the train they call the City of New Orleans. I'll be gone five hundred miles when day is done. 3. Night time on the City of New Orleans, Changin' cars in Memphis, Tennessee, It's halfway home; we'll be there by mornin', Through the Mississippi darkness rollin' to the sea. And all the towns and people seem to fade into a bad dream. The old steel rail, it ain't heard the news. The conductor sings his song again. It's "Passengers Will Please Refrain." This train's got the disappearin' railroad blues. Just a-singin': Good night, America; how are you? Sayin': Don't you know me? I'm your native son. And I'm the train they call the City of New Orleans. I'll be gone five hundred miles when day is done. Just a-singin': Good night, America; how are you? Sayin': Don't you know me? I'm your native son. Well, I'm the train they call the City of New Orleans, And I'll be gone a long, long time when day is done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Marion Date: 11 Jan 06 - 02:22 PM http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/091805/new_blanco001.shtml "It was at that point, Blanco said, that she realized she had made a critical error. "I assumed that FEMA had staged their buses in near proximity",.... ....Brown said that, on the day before the storm hit, he asked Blanco and Maj. Gen. Bennett Landreneau, head of the state's National Guard, what resources they needed. "The response was like, 'Let us find out,' and then I never received specific requests for specific things that needed doing," Brown told The New York Times last week. Blanco said it shouldn't have been up to her to provide a list. "Specific things, my God," she said. "(If) they didn't know that we were in the middle of search and rescue and needed to evacuate people, then they were not on the ground with us. We needed buses and helicopters... Two days later (Thursday), President George W. Bush met with Blanco on Air Force One and asked her for control of the troops that were finally pouring into the state. Blanco asked if Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour would be under the same regime. The answer was "No." Blanco told Bush she'd get back to him in 24 hours. The president didn't wait. That night, the White House faxed a memorandum of understanding for her to sign to cede control of the troops. Her answer was "No." "If I thought that it was going to bring one more resource to bear, if I thought that he was denying me resource because of it, and I don't think he was, then it might have been something that I would have considered," she said....." |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Geoduck Date: 11 Jan 06 - 02:18 PM Perfesser Pink Pants. Here is all the information you need for this class and from your favorite left wing rag to boot: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/10/AR2005091001529.html "...In fact, while the last regularly scheduled train out of town had left a few hours earlier, Amtrak had decided to run a "dead-head" train that evening (Sep 27th)to move equipment out of the city. It was headed for high ground in Macomb, Miss., and it had room for several hundred passengers. "We offered the city the opportunity to take evacuees out of harm's way," said Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black. "The city declined." So the ghost train left New Orleans at 8:30 p.m., with no passengers on board..." |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 11 Jan 06 - 12:21 PM How do you know they didn't Guest,G? The fact is, they made a decision that was the best they could do under the circumstances. They could have used one bus to take a few people out of New Orleans altogether, or they could use that same bus to make multiple trips to get a much larger number of people from their homes to the nearest emergency shelter. They chose to help the greater number of people in getting to the emergency shelters. That was the best decision they could have made under the circumstances. And they did have provisions for about 48 hours at those locations. Things didn't start to get desperate at those shelters until after a couple of days. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,G Date: 11 Jan 06 - 12:00 PM Carol C, they could have least tried a little harder - and I will concede the fact that many citizens said "Hell no, I won't go!" Their welfare checks were coming in a few days. How many city/school buses did they have available? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 11 Jan 06 - 11:11 AM BTW, the number of busses they had wouldn't have been enough to evacuate more than a fraction of the number of people who didn't have their own transportation. Amtrak is owned and operated by the federal government. The Louisiana National Guard might have been able to do the job, but most of the equipment they would have needed for that job was in Iraq. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 11 Jan 06 - 11:06 AM Oops. My mistake. That was the other alphabet GUEST who made that assertion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 11 Jan 06 - 11:06 AM The point that a situation can be reacted to when you are 10 miles away from as opposed to 1000 miles in a timely manner seems to be a reasonable assumption. This statement makes me very skeptical of your assertions that you were there shortly after the storm hit. If you're 10 miles away with all of the communication lines down and most of the roads impassable, for all practical purposes, you might as well be a thousand miles away in terms of how effective you can be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,G Date: 11 Jan 06 - 10:41 AM The point that a situation can be reacted to when you are 10 miles away from as opposed to 1000 miles in a timely manner seems to be a reasonable assumption. FEMA is the responder after the diaster happens. If all the relief supplies are moved in before the problem accurrs, that would result in a bigger cleanup process. The primary thing to do is evacuate the residents in the path of the storm prior to it hitting the area. That is easier accomplished using buses, trains, etc., in the projected path of the Huirricane, not from Federal sites 1000 to 2000 miles away. Can you say "travel time?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Old Guy Date: 10 Jan 06 - 11:56 PM Let's not be too hard on the Ol' Bobster. He is just pissed at Bush for winning and he is trying to use Katrina as a platform for his rant. Time will tell. 'Course, if he would put some Adolph's in his Wildroot Cream Oil he would come around a lot faster. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Geoduck Date: 10 Jan 06 - 11:51 PM Yes I have been there several times. I ate the beignets sitting at a sticky table in the in the Cafe Du Monde. Went to the French Quarter market. I strolled the levee and Riverwalk. I rode the street cars. I rode in an antique Rolls with a police escort (just grease a few palms) when my daughter got married in an old mansion down there. Attended a private crawfish boil. I drank Turbodog beer. I ate Cajun food in a famous restaurant with the squeeze boxes and Cajun dancing. I been to the zoo. I saw all of the poor parts of New Orleans that are like a third world country and like a third world country it is ridden with corruption. I heard second hand about a couple that wanted to open a Curves but they refused to pay bribes. They could not get ther license and lost their ass. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,A Date: 10 Jan 06 - 11:28 PM Geoduck, just let it go - you will never convince the likes of Carol and Bobert about anything. I have been trying to get bobert to come up with some real facts but he just can't do it. He doesn't have a clue as to how far off base he is. I guess in some repects I was baiting him but Lord knows I gave him every opportunity to redeem himself. Bobert, you friggin' moron, go back and read the posts. I was there before the dam'n winds died down, had to wait to move into the outskirts of New Orleans and watch the local/ state governments prevent the Red Cross from doing their job. The Salvation Army managed to get some relief supplies into the dome before the Govenrnor said "no, we don't want more people to come here. If they find out we have all this stuff, they will just keep showing up." Bobert, you are one blind, hateful individual who does his dam'ndest to make others think you are Mr. Right. You are such a phoney and are so blind to the truth. I bid you farewell, you are not worth the time! |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 10 Jan 06 - 09:12 PM More qucking from the "quack gallery"... The old if-you-haven't-been-there-you-can't-possibly-know-anything-about-it argument.... So, I ask the Duck if he/she thinks the moon exists and the Duck says, Sure it does"... So using Quack-logic I say "Well, have you been there, Duck?' "Well, no, I haven't" quacks the quaster... ...to which I reply in quack-logic, "Then it must not exist if you haven't been there..." You stickin' with this game plan, Duck??? The Teach |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 10 Jan 06 - 08:57 PM Impeachable source? Sounds about right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Geoduck Date: 10 Jan 06 - 08:49 PM Truth bounces off of Spongebobert squarepanties like bullets off of Superman. Here he sits in the garden spot of America preaching to his disciples about what goes on in New Orleans. Looks like some people at ground zero know a few things he don't. I heard from an impeccable source that state and local authorities are the first responders. Calling all cars, calling all cars. Now hear this. Send us every thing you have. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 10 Jan 06 - 08:39 PM Well, looks like I beat leadfingers to it... Sorry, pal... Now as fir the Quackster's last post.... Ahhhh, like what does this have to do with this discussion... You are hell-bent on shifting the blame anywhere but where is belongs... I couldn't care less if they recall Blanko... She has nothing to do with the argument I have presented and you, to dat, have not provided anything other than smoke in rebuttal to my orignal argument... For the 10th time... Who gives a rat's ass about Blanko... She has nothing to do with the ordering the Secretary of DHS to order FEMA to act... She ain't the friggin' president, the last I looked... Go back and review yer lessons, Duck... I tried to bring it way down to readable for you Bush faithfuls... I din't use no big words to confuseart you 'er nuthin yet you still seem confused... Professor Squarepants |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 10 Jan 06 - 08:37 PM Maybe we should all go down there on a field trip and beat up on people so they won't sign that pertiton, Al-Qaeda style. You can if you want to, but personally, I don't think that will accomplish much of anything. Even if Blanco goes, we'll still be stuck with the DHS. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 10 Jan 06 - 08:28 PM Just as I did, CarolC, though I must admit that with lexdeia sometimes it can be a chore but I originally challenged one of these Bush-heads to name any Bush policy that they felt all warm and fuzzy defending and so they, NOT ME, chose Bush's Katrina policy/action.... So I went on a reading spree... It ain't hard to research stuff with Google... A couple hours and opne can have a purdy good grasp of an issue... And the nice thing about Google is that you get cross-sectional perspectives... So that's what I did for an entire evening and I ran off copies of stuff, much like I would have done doing a term aper in college except bnot having to write out the index cards... And then I proposed my argument and here we are zeroing on 200 posts to thwei thread and not one Bushite has been able to crack my original argument... I nmean, lets look at the latest... GUEST-G says that the feds aren't up to the task of handling disasters "1000 miles away"???? I know, where's the logic in this... If it's Bush' hjob to connect the dots and "protect the American people" then he cann't put in any fine print on location... What if the terrorists had hit New Orleans, GUEST G??? "Well, gee, we're real sorry about that, Governor, but it's out of our delivery radius..." See what I've had to put up with, CarolC??? Ahhhhh, just fir the record, GUEST, G-zer... If Bush found Iraq, I'm sure he could find New Orleans.... Now who wants to be 200... Leadfingers??? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Geoduck Date: 10 Jan 06 - 08:16 PM Perfessor Squarepants did you hear that Blanko is gettin' rolled under da bus? Is it to late to include it in this class http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-01-10-blanco-recall_x.htm ... Kat Landry, who filed a recall petition with state elections officials, said Louisiana needs new leadership to recover from the storms' back-to-back blows. "What we have seen in the past few months is a lack of leadership, a lack of communication, a lack of understanding of how to get things done," Landry said. In Louisiana, getting a recall on the ballot requires petition signatures from at least one-third of the state's registered voters, or about 900,000 people, in 180 days, according to Jennifer Marusak of the secretary of state's office.... Maybe we should all go down there on a field trip and beat up on people so they won't sign that pertiton, Al-Qaeda style. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 10 Jan 06 - 08:09 PM I suppose it doesn't really matter where you're talking about. GUEST,A, I didn't need to be there because I have magical powers. For the uninitiated, we call these magical powers "reading". With the magical power of "reading", I can learn the contents of other people's minds and understand things from their perspective. In this context, I have used my magical powers of reading to learn the contents of the minds of people who were there. And that is how I learned what I know about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 10 Jan 06 - 05:13 PM Sounds like I was where, Texas? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,A Date: 10 Jan 06 - 04:41 PM Carol C, you sound as if you were there. What was your location? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 10 Jan 06 - 01:09 PM The Texas evacuation for Hurricane Rita was a disaster. There was nothing "timely" about that evacuation. The New Orleans evacuation was far more effectively executed. And the Texas evacuation left pretty much the same amount of people at home as the New Orleans evacuation. Plus a lot of people were stranded on the highway in the Texas evacuation when Rita hit. Had Rita hit that area as hard as Katrina hit Louisiana and Alabama, and had the local topography been the same, the loss of life would have been horrendous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 10 Jan 06 - 12:56 PM But the problems were the same. FEMA promised things that it didn't deliver. And because FEMA promised those things, people expected to be able to rely on them. FEMA promised a support structure that the local governments had every reason to expect would be there when it was needed. It wasn't. And not only that, but when there was any FEMA involvement, it often was in the form of interference with the efforts of the local governments and first responders. Yes the problems were magnified in NO. But they were essentially the same problems in all of the locations, with varying degrees of disasterous consequences. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,G Date: 10 Jan 06 - 09:49 AM What plan was there to make the locals, read city/state, not refuse to evacuate. Saturday and Sunday was too late to start the evacuation on a local scene. What could the Feds have done from a 1000+ miles away. And............Mississippi and later Texas did a timely evacuation without federal intervention. And, Clinton could not have done more if this had happened 6 years ago. One more thing, what was "the catastrophy" on that Saturday and Sunday? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 10 Jan 06 - 08:31 AM Actually, GUEST G, you apparently missed missed one of the lessons... The Natiopnal Response Plan that the Bush administartion had in place autghorizes a "federal" response should local or state authorities be overwhelmed.... I would suggest that was the case with Katrina... That's my point here and that's why the "gate" in KatrinaGate... 1. The Feds supposedly had a plan... 2. Bush was warned that the plan would be needed by Micheal Brown... 3. Bush ignored the catastrophy... And I guess what is so amazing that with all the mis=steps of the Bush administartion, Brownie, who was doing his job with waht few tools were left in FEMA to act, took the weight... Had Bill Clinton done exactly what Bush did you Bushites would be making every argument that I have made here... Does that make me a Clinton apologists??? Heck no!!! Didn't care for his policies either but at least he wasn't the one responsible for gutting FEMA and kicking it down the ladder... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,G Date: 10 Jan 06 - 07:19 AM Back to my original question, the Feds imposed nothing without the consent of the Governor, who always wanted "24 hours to think it over". I will need a source And Carol C, @ 09 11:41.....I will certainly agree that "the problems of NO were greatly maginified as compared to Mississippi..." |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 09 Jan 06 - 11:36 PM What happened to the concept that the first responders are local and State people and that FEMA arrives AFTER the event? That appears to have gone out the window when the federal govt. (in the form of FEMA) decided to impose the National Incident Management System (NIMS) on the local governments. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,A Date: 09 Jan 06 - 10:19 PM What happened to the concept that the first responders are local and State people and that FEMA arrives AFTER the event? I always wonder what would happen if we moved ALL our resources (FEDS) into the area BEFORE the crap hits the fan. WOuld not that just make more junk to clean up? Maybe, just maybe, my 114 page NRP document is an old issue, say from the 1920's? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 09 Jan 06 - 08:58 PM Katrina Gate 101- Lesson 3 (Note from the teacher to the Duck: This class is about Katrina"GATE" and having the "agte" part thrown in should be a clue that a scandal is involved. No more disruptions.) Okay, here the United Sates had a plan in place where in the case of a "natural" or terrorist led disaster the feds knew what they had to do. Or one might think since the president had gone around the country saying that tho it was hard work it was his job to "protect the American people". Now, given the fact that the plan was in place, the chain of command fully understood by all the parties, all that the president needed was to issue orders to impliment the plan. According to Michael Brown, he started to send up alerts to thew White House as early as August 26th, 3 full days before the hurricane and has stated under oath that he spoke with the prseident on Saturday, August 27th about his concerns that a Category 4, perhaps a Category 5 hurricane would hit the Gulf shore on the 29th of August. Now, fir those good students who have not been a disruption here is where the "gate" come into play. What did the president do on August 27th, two full days before the hurricane hit New Orleans, having been warned of the impending disaster and having a plan in place to "protect the American people"? This is the crux of Katrina"gate" and this is why we are having this discussion. Did Bush alert the Secretary of Homeland Security so he could order FEMA into action? Well, apparently, the president didn't. He, afterall, was on vacation. The End of Lesson 3 |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 09 Jan 06 - 08:31 PM Yes, the Democrats suck too. Now... what are we going to do with that useless behemoth (DHS)? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Geoduck Date: 09 Jan 06 - 07:48 PM PS: Also it was the Dems that demanded that DHS be created. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,George Date: 09 Jan 06 - 06:41 PM Hey Brownie, send everything we've got down to New Orleans, Blanko says she needs what ever it is. No. I thought you would know what it is. No she didn't say where to put it, just get it on the way and hopefully she can figger it out later on. Adios. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Geoduck Date: 09 Jan 06 - 12:08 PM Perfessor. I want to know if this class is about Katrina or George Bush or what governments are supposed to do? If it is about Katrina it should begin when Katrina hit. If it is about what governments do in the event of a hurricane, it should begin in 1803. If it is about President Bush it should be named "Bush 101". And where does "gate" apply? Are those the flood gates that President Johnson has appopriated but doogoody, establishment bucking "environmentalists" defeated? If so it should be called "New Orleans Flood Gate 101" If it is about FEMA it should be called "FEMA 101" and should include the history of FEMA at least as far back as when the Democrats demanded that it be joined into DHS. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: CarolC Date: 09 Jan 06 - 11:41 AM Mississippi did not have good results. They had dismal results. Same problems with FEMA as New Orleans. The difference is that because New Orleans remained under water for a much longer amount of time, the problems caused by FEMA in New Orleans were greatly magnified as compared to Mississippi. |
