Question: Ashokan Farewell

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 07:05 PM

try this one


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6p8WE6ZemY

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 11:19 PM

Actually, no.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 11:13 PM

see what I mean?

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 10:58 PM

Most of it is very similar to the old gospel song "He Hideth My Soul".

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 05:52 PM

Unger probably was referring to the place in the Catskills-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashokan_Field_Campus

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 05:47 PM

Ashokan NY is easily located on the NY map, just a few miles east of Shokan.
Settled umpteen years before 1982. Supposedly it was named for an 'Indian chief.' There are several wineries nearby, so alcoholism rather than curry was a more likely cause of his demise.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: GUEST,Julie
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 05:11 PM

RE: It is important to note that "The Ashoka" is (or was) a very famous Indian curry house in Glasgow. My own experience of this dates back to the years 1986/7. It was well known that it was the best curry house in Glasgow (and therefore the best curry house in the world).

It seems that this constitutes incontrovertable proof that the tune is indeed based on a Scottish air. It is of little surprise that the "Farewell to the Ashoka" (or "The Ashokan Farewell") is a lament.

Sandy

_____________________________________________________________________

That restaurant, according to its website, opened in 1984. The song was written in 1982.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Cruiser
Date: 01 May 05 - 04:57 PM

Q:

The DVD is available from Homespun Tapes for $29.95. I paid $49.00 for the VHS tape years ago:

Homespun Tapes

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 May 05 - 04:45 PM

Cruiser, you have just solved a gift problem for me. Thanks for the recommendation.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Cruiser
Date: 01 May 05 - 02:36 PM

This discussion of the origins of 'Ashokan Farewell' is interesting. I agree with John in Brisbane that the melody sometimes resembles 'Give Me Your Hand'. However, even more so, the melodic structure is closely similar to the opening bars of 'Sheebeg, Sheemore'. Change the notes a bit and the tunes are the same. I noticed this when I was learning all 3 tunes on the fiddle.

This in no way detracts from Ungar's composition, without which we would not have this beautiful, haunting melody. Jay likely subconsciously borrowed the melodies from the other 2 tunes since these are in his repertoire and both appear (along with Ashokan) on his great fiddle video "The Fiddler's Guide to Waltzes, Aires, and Haunting Melodies". Mr. Ungar is an excellent traditional fiddler and Ashokan Farewell is one of my favorites.

Cruiser
5/01/04

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: John Hardly
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 02:30 PM

I tried to email it to you. The email failed.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From:
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 01:17 PM

i would be most gratefull if anyone will supply me with fingerstyle guitar tab in any tuning for this bewitching melody.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 04 Aug 04 - 02:02 PM

As a Civil War Reenactor and Field Musician, I had to check this out.

We still get requests for it at Reenactments and encampments.

I don't know, nor do I care as to Mr. UNGAR's religious tradition or heritage, and "ashoken" is about the only work of his that I'm familiar with.

But in regards to some of the recent discussion and somewhat aside, some years ago I was inspired to write a song titled "Night in Jerusalem" that sounds every bit like a Jewish person should have written it...

But I'm a Yankee Baptist. Go figure, eh?

"In my dreams the golden spires of your Temple meet the sun;
In your streets; the children dancing;
Hear them sing, and laugh, and run;
Your sweet flowers soothe my spirit
Though it's not time to come home -
Let me spend the night, Dear Lord...
In Jerusalem!"

(Chorus)

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: snowbird
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 06:49 PM

I went to the Ashokan Camp last summer - its worth checking out on the website - just search for Ashokan Farwell - and up it pops. There is no doubt that Jay Ungar wrote the tune. It is used as the farewell dance at the end of each of the three summer camps. Jay wrote it at the end of one summer - after the last camp when he was devastated and exhausted at the end of it all. It was like an Auld Lang Syne - what the scottish sing at the new year.

Having been entrenched in folk music genre for the whole summer of course the tune shows the influence of it all.

I know that Jay and Molly are rather fond of food and would dearly love to visit the various Ashoka establishments that have been suggested throughout the northern hemisphere.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 06:53 PM

If memory serves - there was some needless reference to Jay Ungar being jewish in one of the other threads, so perhaps the sensitivity or assumption that the humourously intended comment/pun was an intentional reference to this - was understandable? As as all of us are in agreement that one's religion, race or creed has nothing to do with musical talent, perhaps we can finally lay this issue to rest and all move on, a little wiser and a little more tolerant?

As the record is slipping down the chart, perhaps we do not have to worry about it becoming a big hit? Thanks for the deatails.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 06:44 PM

Sorry for the mis-understanding Skipjack. I was not familiar with the British lingo. With all that is happening in the world today, one does tend to get a little oversensitive at times. SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 06:43 PM

Robin, you are not, I hope, implying that the entire melody is in D plagal mode ?

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 06:25 PM

Firstly, I must put the good Rabbi's fears to sleep. I am British, and am mercifully free (I think!) of most racial prejudice, least of all anti-semiticism. I was most careless in using the word 'jew' in my post, and it is only in such casual ways one finds that what one says in innocense is received with hurt (a favourite saying of mine used to be calling a spade a spade, until it was pointed out that I wasn't referring to a garden implement). My ignorance on this occasion was that Jay Ungar is Jewish. I am a fan of his work, and a performer of his music. I have seen him performing with Aly Bain on the excellent TV program the Transatlantic Sessions, and enjoyed his contribution immensely. Call me naive, but I just didn't realise he is Jewish, as that isn't one of the criteria on my scorecard. I heard and saw an American, and a great one at that. I think by now, unless you are blind to my innocence, that you would realise that I wouldn't deliberately make the faut pas I did if I thought of the composer as a Jew and me having a problem about that.

However, sir, I find your tone rather suggestive of over-sensitivity, sniffing out prejuduce where it genuinely does not exist. I thank you for correcting my ignorance, but dismissing it with humour is more constructive than suggesting that there are darker forces at work.

Shambles, I did some digging about the Classic FM version, and it seems that it slipped from Number 6 in the 2003 chart to No 18 in the 2004 version. The details are:-

track title
The Ashokan Farewell
composer
Jay Ungar
soloist
N/A
conductor
Major J R Perkins
orchestra
Band of her Majesty's Royal Marines
record label
Classic FM
catalogue number
CFMCD34

And it isn't junior bandsmen stamping up and down parade grounds, it really is quite sensitive!

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: freda underhill
Date: 31 Jul 04 - 12:40 PM

back to the Indian connection, Ashoka means free from grief and pain, in Hindi & Sanskrit.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: The Shambles
Date: 31 Jul 04 - 12:33 PM

If you had to think about every message, muscle movement and subtle changes of balance that goes into every step - walking would appear so complicated a process that you may not even risk making the attempt?

Fine music was being made long before people thought in terms of octaves and keys. Technical examination of the notational structure of tunes or styles may sometimes be helpful - it may also lead some folk to think that the attempt is too difficult.

Ashokan Farewell is a fine tune because it sounds good to many ears, rather than how pretty (or complicated) the notes look when written down on paper.

This thread was refreshed as Ashokan Farewell looks in danger of becoming a hit pop record in the UK. See the following thread: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=72017&messages=19

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Blackcatter
Date: 31 Jul 04 - 12:15 PM

Zen and the Art of Tin Whistle?

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: The Shambles
Date: 31 Jul 04 - 06:08 AM

It only appears to be easy because you don't know how difficult it really is.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Blackcatter
Date: 31 Jul 04 - 01:11 AM

Hey,

I don't get the thing about "no octave jumps" on the whistle. Could you elaborate?

I play it all the time and and find it pretty easy to play. It's one of my favorite songs to play.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Jul 04 - 12:30 AM

My grandfather played several instruments in a 'brass band', finally settling on the tuba. he said it allowed him to get a seat on the tram - just drop it on someones foot, and when they stood up, sit.

AF takes 3 octaves on the piano accordion - you would really need a Low G whistle, and need to cross-finger or half hole the G# as it is a dominant part of the whole piece. The C natural on which the whole second part hangs needs to be clear.

It really is in the mode of D plagal.

Robin

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 10:20 PM

I hope this is just another failure to communicate thing. I do think, as was said, that a typo happened. Otherwise the discussion makes no sense at all---other than to point out a military band version of Jay's song.

Long before there was a Watergate Scandal, I used to go down to the Watergate by the Potomac River in D.C., and twice a week there were glorious band concerts done by one or the other of the national military bands. They did things like "Sinple Gifts" and R. Vaughn-William's "English Folksong Suite" or various works by Aaron Copeland. These were rendered, to my ear at least as well as any performance by good symphony orchestras. (That was 1964.)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Leadfingers
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 07:54 PM

As a point of interest , if you want to play A. F. on Whistle in the original key (D) Without any Octave jumps you will need a G whistle and start on the A in the top octave . The melody runs through two octaves of G when played in D . If you hate people showing off as much as I do , PM me and we will discuss .

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Blackcatter
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 06:53 PM

Sol,

Contextually speaking, I think it was just a typo Give 'em their jew should be: Give 'em their due, but I could be wrong.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 06:18 PM

Perhaps we can just stick to the music?

I must admit that the thought of a millitary band version does not immediately fill me with delight - but I would like to hear it first before passing judgement. Are there any more details of this version?

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 04:23 PM

Then why the use of the word Jew (Ungar is Jewish) ? From the context of that statement, it looks as if it was used in a pejorative manner; unless, of course, I am missing someting. If I am wrong, tell me how so. SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 03:38 PM

Even if I knew the great man's religion, Rabbi, even if he celebrates one, I doubt I would opine on its influence on his music.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 02:50 PM

Excuse me Skipjack, but what does Jay Ungar's religion have to do with his musical talents ? SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 07:28 PM

Shamb, old love, this toon gets a fair old bashing on Classic FM, as one on the military bands has made a fair fist of it. Fair nearly drove off the motorway first time I heard it. Give 'em their jew, they call it 'Jay Ungar's Ashokan Farewell'.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 01:25 PM

Here's a related thread that didn't get included in the associated links above. It's also useful because it contains (at least) three guitar arrangements for the tune.

ashokan

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: The Shambles
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 01:11 PM

Refresh.

As the tune was recently played on BBC Radio 2.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Frankie
Date: 01 Dec 99 - 06:32 PM

Should have mentioned that I play it in G. Add capo at second fret to get A.

F

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Frankie
Date: 01 Dec 99 - 06:28 PM

I orginally learned the arrangement in Acoustic Guitar in A and then discovered that it lays a lot better for fingerstyle guitar in Malagasy tuning, CGDGBE low to high, for me anyway. It's not hard to transpose off the AG version and all the additonal open string notes add resonance and make it easier to add fiddle-like embellishments. Frankie

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Banjer
Date: 01 Dec 99 - 06:45 AM

Hello Hannah, I am very glad to hear you are involved with CW reenacting. It is encouraging to see young people getting involved with learning and teaching others about our heritage! What part of the country are you in and are you affiliated with a particular unit or group? I formed an artillery unit representing the 1st Pennsylvania Light Artillery, D Battery, U.S. and Rockbridge Light Artillery, Virginia, C.S.A. We have been in the hobby about 9 years now, my wife and two of my sons are also active. Music of the period is also of great interest to us. Click here to get to a wonderful site of Civil War era music. Many of the popular composers of the day are represented.

Perhaps one day our paths will cross at an event and I will have the privilege of hearing you play.

Right on Ole Bull!

And why not on the Banjo?? Hrrruuummmph!!

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: stewrat
Date: 01 Dec 99 - 12:58 AM

I'm sure I remeber hearing an obscure recording of the tune we know as Ashokan Farewell being played by Sitars proving, as Sandy, suggested the tune is really Indian in origin. At least it sounded better than Ashokan Farewell played on a banjo!

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From:
Date: 30 Nov 99 - 10:18 PM

Has anyone seen banjo music for Ashokan?

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Ole Bull
Date: 15 Sep 99 - 08:13 AM

Dear Hannah This song Ashokan Farewell at a Civil War Reenactment would be somewhat "farby" (reenactment vernacular for unauthentic/anachronistic). There is so much wonderful and neglected music from the 19th century I have to ask why people (like Burns) insist on grafting modern facsimiles and give the impression that it is "authentic." For those who count on research input from TV, Radio and weekend folk festival you can count also on general misrepresentation. Sadly, now, everyone misses out; on the true richness of our own heritage.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Peter MacLean
Date: 14 Sep 99 - 08:12 PM

Ashokan Farewell the second tune I learned on the violin is alive and well in Cape Breton CANADA. Performed by Fr. George MacInnis (on piano) on his tape "A Gift of Music" and accompanied on violin by Carl MacKenzie. A beautiful tune that is a tribute to the composer.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Dale Rose
Date: 13 Sep 99 - 08:56 PM

Hello, Hannah, good to see you here. It is a recent composition by Jay Unger ~~ 1982 in fact.

If you will go to this url, Ashokan Farewell FAQ you'll get the story as told by Jay Unger himself.

Subject: I need help/tips
From:
Date: 13 Sep 99 - 07:20 PM

I play one of the arrangements of this tune for my civil War re-enacting. I was wondering where I could get some of the history of the piece. I enjoy hearing comments if anyone could tell me anything they know. I'm 14 and teaching myself to fiddle. I've been playing the violin for about 5 years now.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Easy Rider
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 09:04 AM

Maybe, but, as stated before, Ashokan, from the Algonquian Indian language, is a town and a reservoir, in the Catskill region of New York State. The song's author, Jay Ungar, lives there.

EZR

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Rincon Roy
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 09:48 PM

A world-wide profiferation of curry restaurants suggests a potential influence upon the air of regions far removed from Old Scotland. Also, in some areas "Ashokan" serves as a casual statement of firm assent.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Easy Rider
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 01:01 PM

I got it, the March/April 1993 Acoustic Guitar #17 article on arranging Ashokan Farewell. The original recording is in D, but he plays it in A.

Thanx to all.

I still need to see a copy of Mark Hanson's arrangement, from his new book, "Great American Tablature". Anybody got that? 718-488-1752 (Fax)

Thanx, Alex M

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Easy Rider
Date: 02 Jun 99 - 03:58 PM

Doesn't ANYBODY have the March/April, 1993 issue of ""Acoustic Guitar Magazine""?

If so, could you fax me the article and TAB/Music for "Ashokan Farewell""? 718-488-1752

Please? Alex M

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: Easy Rider
Date: 01 Jun 99 - 02:26 PM

JO:

How does "Maiden's Prayer" go? Hum me a few bars.

ER

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: JOField
Date: 31 May 99 - 05:11 PM

Personally, I would award +i/Ashokan Farewell/-i "Sappiest Fiddle Tune of the Century" and be done with it. I'll take +i/Maiden's Prayer/-i or anything with some blues in it any day.

James.

Subject: RE: Question: Ashokan Farewell
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 31 May 99 - 12:09 AM

Found this source for Flatpick TAB (2 versions), but haven't had the chance to try my gear just yet. I'll be away for a few days, but will try not to forget,

http://www.mbay.net/~darwin/FPLtab.html

Regards
John