BS: Brexit again

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 01:03 PM

For a start Jim you have issued a false quote.
Where have I said "typical of all lefties" and in what context?

You make things up Jim, I would be within my rights to accuse you of being a liar, but I don't believe in being personally abusive on a discussion forum, but I feel it is my duty as a member to point out behaviour which falls below the standards we should expect.

Try to engage brain before taking off please.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 11:43 AM

"I don't accept that "liberals" are lefties or even that "lefties" are socialists."
You really do have oyur own private language, don't you?
'Course you don't - neither would I if I had just blown my cover.
You get more and more desperate as you try to justify your extreme right views
Nobody mentioned "liberals" - socialists are 'left' by definition.
"Socialist
a person who advocates or practises socialism.
"she was a lifelong socialist"
synonyms: left-wing, Fabian, syndicalist, utopian socialist"
Given your input to this forum, there is no doubt whatever as to where you register on the political scale.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 11:35 AM

Greg, Bruce and I are pretty far apart on the politics front, but he does appear to have an excellent handle on the "liberal elite" and the Fascism they attempt to promote.
He also deals in facts which is a big plus as far as I am concerned, even if the facts are inconvenient to my argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 11:29 AM

"Typical of all lefties" doesn't sound like me there Jim shurley shome mishtake?

I don't accept that "liberals" are lefties or even that "lefties" are socialists.
I don't accept that people like you are of the serious left at all, simply woolly minded "liberals" masquerading as socialists. Tied up in the tangle of non issues promoted by the media as "of some importance".

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 10:27 AM

"Typical of all lefties, "
Seems like the "I am a socialist" mask has been totally discarded - not before time
You were giving us all a bad name.
A gentle reminder
The misogynist, racist, anti-semitic thug that has just been elected to the White House is a "rightie"
Margaret Thatcher who, by her own indirect admission, led the nearest thing Britain ever had to a Fascist administration, was a "righty".
Her friend, Augusto Pinochet, who oversaw the mass rape, torture and murder of his opponents, was a "rightie".
Adolph Hitler, whos administration shepherded many millions of human beings, including six million Jews into the gas chambers, was a "rightie".
Basshir Assad, who has been massacring his own people and using chemical weapons on them for several years, is a "rightie".
Some of the most brutal leaders of the 20th century have been "righties".
So when you lay into "lefties" *a real Freudian slip that one Ake) - youi are disassociating us from all these monsters, as you.
You do say the nicest things Ake - whose knickers are you trying to get into now?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 10:26 AM

I'm starting to get the feeling, from the majority of his latest posts that Ake is channelling BeardedBS, or has at least taken him on board as an advisor, rather like Trump & Giuliani.

Anyone else notice this?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 09:06 AM

Bit of an oxymoron there Akenaton. A bit far fetched, even by the standards of the Right Wing on here.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 08:54 AM

"Faux-humorous dialogue?" There's nothing faux about it. Typical of all lefties, we have magnificent senses of humour and find our intra-leftie banter hugely amusing. Just another arrow in our quiver. I'm so glad it annoys you. 😎 "

It doesn't annoy me Steve it just bores me. I come here for discussion and open debate it was always a wonderful forum for exchange of views......until the "liberal fascists" arrived, the majority of whom are from the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 08:04 AM

I am pretty sure that I said "In simple terms it means that of those who could vote, 38% voted to leave" and then backed that up with "38% of the voting population voted to leave". I did, in a moment of laziness, say "a mathematical as opposed to mythical 38% of the population voted to leave" and I apologise for any missing out the word 'voting'. I thought that seeing as I had specified 'voting population' (aka electorate) twice people may have realised that is what I meant. I was obviously wrong. Still, as misleading statements go I suppose it does not have a patch on making people believe that article 50 would be triggered the next day, money put into the EU would be spent on the health service or immigration would be curtailed.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 07:46 AM

No Gnome 38% of the population did not vote to "leave" - 38% of the electorate voted to leave.

26.8% of the population voted to leave and even less voted to remain.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 07:44 AM

Of course you'd be hearing a peep from us, because you lot would be crying foul, with that holder of the £350 million-a-day sword of truth Farage at the helm, and you would very likely get another referendum. That would be much easier for the leave side as there's nothing irrevocable about voting for the status quo. On the other hand, we've been told that the vote to leave was irrevocable (a lie, as we all now know, and the government are still wriggling on that hook). A seriously skewed referendum, and a disgraceful campaign on both sides. Yet you call that democracy just because you managed to squeak ahead. Well I call it the opposite of democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 07:43 AM

Any comments on what would have happened had the vote been different are simply fantasy. The vote happened as it did. It is known fact that 38% of the voting population voted to leave, 35% voted to remain and 27% abstained for a multitude of reasons. No amount of discussion will change that.

I have stated that I do not want another referendum. I doubt if anyone does. What I, and many others, want is an adherence to parliamentary procedure and rule of law.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 07:34 AM

38% is 52% of 71.8%. Well, it is actualy 37.336% but I have rounded up.

Nothing mythical about simple arithmetic.

In simple terms it means that of those who could vote, 38% voted to leave, 35% voted to remain and 27% abstained. I have never commented on the reasons for abstention as neither I now anyone else can possibly know. The simple fact of the matter remains that a mathematical as opposed to mythical 38% of the population voted to leave the EU and it is now up to our MPs to determine whether to follow the 38% or try to decipher what proportion of the abstentions would back whatever decision they make. Not an easy job.

Hope this helps

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 07:34 AM

The 38% Iains comes from the percentage of the total electorate of the United Kingdom who voted to leave (Actually 37.4%).

Now with the same turn out and a reversed result of exactly the same numbers and the result being for the UK to remain within the EU - you would not have heard a peep from those "remoaners" who are incessantly whinging now.

The electorate of the UK were given an extended period in which to register, they were given every opportunity by every means possible to vote. the result as you correctly state was 52% voted to leave and 48% voted to remain - a victory for those wishing to leave - them as could not be bothered or arsed to vote do not feature either way, they had their chance and threw it away they cannot complain now.

It is called democracy some can live with it others cannot.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 07:32 AM

Let me help you, Iains. Slightly under 38% of eligible voters voted leave. Yes, 52% of the people who turned out to vote voted leave, but 28% of the eligible electorate didn't turn out to vote at all. You do the maths. You can Google the overall voting figures versus turnout. 38% of eligible voters voted to take us out of the EU. Not making any points in this post save to give you the numbers.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 07:25 AM

Well I would never advocate any referendums as I regard them as tremendously undemocratic and a dereliction of duty by the government we elected to run the country and to have far more of the expert knowledge so to do than the ordinary people. But we now find ourselves hostage to a referendum result predicated on a question that, it's becoming clear, was far more complex in its implications than the people were told, and about which even the government are getting tied up in knots about. When it comes clear what the "deal" is, and what the adverse implications of our leaving are, the decision must be revisited. If it becomes plain, as I think it will, that the brexit decision is taking us to hell in a handcart, someone has to decide whether we should continue on that road or not. As a referendum triggered this mess, it may take another one, with a different question, to attempt to get us out of it. And we need to know what the government is saying in its negotiations. We must resist the lie that "we mustn't show our negotiating hand." Yes they must. Democracy demands it. I understand that urgent matters of national security may require secrecy. We are not in that ball game here. The powers that be in Europe are all too aware of our hand already. The only conceivable reason for keeping negotiations secret from the British people is that we may not like seeing the embarrassing compromises that the government will have to air in public. Heaven forfend that we might even want to change our minds!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Iains
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 07:17 AM

D the G
a vote in which everyone (or nearly everyone) of voting age can take part - was held on Thursday 23 June, to decide whether the UK should leave or remain in the European Union. Leave won by 52% to 48%. The referendum turnout was 71.8%, with more than 30 million people voting.
Where does the mythical 38% come from?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 06:56 AM

From my point of view the new information that has come to light after the referendum is that A) It was only advisory, B) should the vote go to exit the EU, there was no clear plan on how to go about it and C) many of the things said by both sides were blatantly untrue. I was well aware of all these points from the start but I appreciate that not everyone is as cynical as me and many accepted what 'call me Dave' said at face value. Personally I think to accept what any politician says at face value, even if it is portrayed as an official position, is foolish but that is just me.

Given that information and the fact that things like spending money on the NHS instead of the EU and restricting immigration were blatant lies, I think the referendum may have had a different outcome.

However, due to all the problems and bad feeling it stirred up last time I would not advocate a new referendum. I think the government should do what they are paid for and make the decision. Whether they will go with the wishes of the 38% who want to leave or whether they will vote with their own party whips is up to them and yet to be seen.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 06:52 AM

Well, ignoring Little and Large for a minute (don't they waste their emotional energy!), it now seems that the government, scared of a Supreme Court adverse judgement, are thinking of getting their lawyers to make the case that Article 50, after all they've said, wouldn't be irrevocable after all! That being so, they say that MPs wouldn't then be entitled to a vote in the Commons as the High Court ruled because triggering Article 50 wouldn't inevitably mean that domestic laws and EU rights would be changed. So they're going to the Supreme Court to tell the Justices that they lied about Article 50 and that brexit may not mean brexit after all! Talk about government by shower...

By the way, Teribus, you were whingeing only yesterday about how we remoaners should consider how much public dough these referendums cost. Made me wonder how much public dough the government's lawyers and these judges are getting paid for all this "let's do our best to subvert democracy" malarkey. Bet they're having a field day!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 06:49 AM

How about finding out for yourself professor, try reading a different newspaper than the Daily Mail, although I would suppose even they have had articles relating to the subject since June.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 06:18 AM

Returning to the subject,
Steve and Rag, what new information?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 05:47 AM

"Good heavens Shaw you do get your knickers in a twist "
Talking down from your mental hole in the ground again
"Then come up with one lie to substantiate your claims."
Every posting you make and refuse to substantiate with proof is almost certainly a lie - otherwise you would wipe us out by substantiating them.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 05:24 AM

Ah Steve, he must mean personal insults like "leftie, trades unionist activist bully boy"


PS Do you really require two "ists" in that sentence?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 05:17 AM

Good heavens Shaw you do get your knickers in a twist when somebody marks your card and those of your friends as succinctly as Stanron has done - why is that?

Your post - Steve Shaw - 11 Nov 16 - 09:33 PM - is a bit bloody rich coming from a member of a group on this forum who have legendary reputations and track records of casting out baseless accusations and allegations yet never ever substantiating your claims. When confronted with facts not once have you ever countered with facts of your own to back your case, instead you resort to personal insult.

Want to put it to the test Shaw? Then come up with one lie to substantiate your claims.

Bet we don't hear another word about it.

Typical "leftie", trades unionist activist and bully-boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 04:36 AM

That's it. Nothing technically wrong with "fora" except that when you're referring to Internet forums it's bumptious and pretentious and quite likely to elicit a double-take from the more sensible if used in conversation. "Fora" doesn't even have the amusement potential of, say, "hippopotami" or "octopi." Usage is the main driver. "Forums" is normal whereas "phenomenons" isn't. When the English language nicks words from elsewhere we can do what we like with 'em!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Iains
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 04:18 AM

Apologies for entering a little lucidity:

The current entry from the Oxford Dictionary says: The plural of forum is usually spelled forums; the plural fora (as in the original Latin) is chiefly used when talking about a public square in an ancient Roman city.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 04:17 AM

"Faux-humorous dialogue?" There's nothing faux about it. Typical of all lefties, we have magnificent senses of humour and find our intra-leftie banter hugely amusing. Just another arrow in our quiver. I'm so glad it annoys you. 😎

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 03:59 AM

"would be as nothing compared to the numbers who voted to make Mr Trump president"
Do you know how many Germans voted Hitler into power Ake - would you have howled as loudly if good Germans had taken to the streets to protest that "democratic"victory - a rhetorical question - I know the answer to that one) ?
This "democratic" victory will have repercussions world wide - not only do I hope this display of opposition continues and spreads in the U.S., but I hope it takes on over here - in fact, I hope it becomes a worldwide movement.
America has elected a racist, antisemitic, homophobic, misogynistic, hate-spreading thug as president - none of this description is disputed - we watched him proving it throughout the election campaign.
A man who has suggested at least six times that nuclear weapons are the answer to many of today's problems now has his finger on the nuclear trigger.
Democracy my arse - the safety and well being of the people are far more important than the sham democracy that enables a man like Trump - a man with no track record or obvious ability - to buy his way into office.
Our governments will appease this man, no matter whether he restricts his actions to his election promises or adds to them tenfold - he is now CiC of the world's most powerful state.
This persistent swing to the extreme right has to be stopped or the Holocaust will look like a minor traffic accident in comparison to what might happen.
Trump, May, Netanyahu, Putin..... and possibly LePen - not a world I hoped to have left to those who follow me.
I hope to see them out on the streets in their millions before these monsters infect the world with their diseased minds.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 03:54 AM

Steve, for years "liberals" here have been bombarded with facts on many different subjects, they start off in debate but whenever they find themselves unable to find a sensible response, they retreat into either outright abuse in an attempt to have the thread shut down, or into a faux humorous dialogue between themselves which usually has no bearing on the subject under discussion.
This of course is a tactic to derail the discussion, their expressed "offence" is another tactic which demands discussion be curtailed.

I has become clear to me over the years, that "liberals" in general do not like to hear inconvenient facts, all their views are strongly based on how they think the world should be, not how it actually is.

Why do conservatives not suffer from this affliction? I can only suppose that their views are built on more sturdy foundations.
The media must share a large part of the blame as "liberal" views are propagated constantly to huge sections of the community by misinformation, quoting out of context and a warped view of morality.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 09:33 PM

The people who get "abused" by us dreadful lefties tend to be the people who display bigotry, who make unsupportable claims and who lie. No need to name the four or five of you. Of course, we lefties don't accuse them of conspiracy because they're generally too bloody thick to conspire. If the cap fits and all that. Instead of moaning, as you seem to do quite a lot, just put up a vigorous and well-considered argument and take us on. It's good fun, sometimes. But whatever you do just drop the nonsensical accusations of conspiracy and stop making yourself look ridiculous. Musket and I often crossed swords, civilly, and we never exchanged messages. I love Jim and he loves me but we bloody well keep each other at arm's length. Go on, ask him!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Stanron
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 09:20 PM

It doesn't require a conspiracy for like minded people to post in support of one another on a forum. My point is that you all agree with each other, apparently in denial with a range of actual events, and the people who disagree with you get abused vigorously.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 09:07 PM

Well I for one do not engage in conspiracies on forums. Ask Jim, Musket, Dave and Raggytash how many private messages we have ever exchanged (well I might confess to exchanging the odd one with Dave about my mum and pubs in Lancashire and with Raggytash about folkie venues in Cornwall...) Such an easy accusation to make about people you don't know. And say "fora" if you want to be affected and pretentious. Otherwise, join the human race and say "forums."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Stanron
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 04:57 PM

akenaton wrote: "liberals" don't do street fighting en masse, they prefer social Fascism, innuendo and personal insult.

Plus reality denial, plus gathering together on fora to agree with themselves and abuse the few who are foolish enough to disagree.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 04:46 PM

Handbags at Dawn? :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 04:43 PM

"I sincerely hope that the American protests against Trump's presidency swell to a such a proportion that they cannot be ignored
That would be true democracy at work"

Please TRY to retain some sense of proportion Jim.....a few hundred demonstrators even swelling to let's say for arguments sake 10'000, would be as nothing compared to the numbers who voted to make Mr Trump president.      You are certainly NOT a democrat sir!

"liberals" don't do street fighting en masse, they prefer social Fascism, innuendo and personal insult.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 04:30 PM

....and if it walks like a duck....

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Raggytash
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 04:11 PM

No, professor.

My post was specifically addressed to STEVE.

STEVE, not you, was named in particular as it was to him that my post was addressed, nor to anyone else.

You, in your perverted little bubble, think it's all about you.

It's not, you are just an insignificant little oik who also happens to be a persistent pain in the arse.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 03:56 PM

Rag, your post 09:07 AM was about my post 09:29 AM whoever you addressed it to.

Do tell us what new information about pitfalls you are aware of?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Raggytash
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 03:00 PM

You will find professor, if you care to read my post correctly, it was addressed to Steve and not yourself.

There's a bit of a clue for you in the post, I specifically mentioned "Steve" in my post.

Once again you are falling back to your usual default position "it is all about me".

It's not about you because you are really an insignificant little man who, quite frankly, is a pain in the arse.

Please don't trouble yourself to reply, I truly am not interested in you.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 02:44 PM

"political elite are now doing their best to overturn the result of that referendum"
Er nno - the politcal elite are trying to overturn the rule of law and have been reprimanded for doing so (and have backed down)
Trump won the election by appealing to the basest instincts of sections the American population - he did so crudely and sold that crudeness on teh basis of it being how Americans are ("locker room banter" to explain away obscene misogyny, for instance)
Britain was sold Brexit on the basis of a mixture of crude nationalism and xenophobia - no problem when tou weigh up the number of Britons who have admitted to being racist.
We should have realised by now that because a majority of people are in favour of something doesn't automatically make it just, fair or teh right thing to do - the Nazis were elected into power.
I sincerely hope that the American protests against Trump's presidency swell to a such a proportion that they cannot be ignored
That would be true democracy at work
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 02:24 PM

Oh dear, sorry. Troglodytes? Worms crawling out of the woodwork? A few years ago I got into horrible trouble with the yanks for using the word "hillbillies" a bit too slackly. You can't be too careful!

Nice bit of revisionism there, by the way, Teribus. The only clamour for a referendum in this country was the phoney clamour that the idiots in UKIP and the, er, crawlers out of the woodwork on the Tory benches tried to whip up.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 01:28 PM

" a bunch of unreconstructed right-wing backwoodsmen

Take back that gross insult sirrah, or my seconds will discuss the terms of a duel with your men.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 01:26 PM

The electorate of this country called for a referendum on EU Membership and fully expected to get one on the back of promises made by the Conservatives in 2010. That fell through as part of the deal to form the coalition with the LibDems, so automatically was on the agenda next time round.

Highest voter turnout in UK political history, and our professional political elite are now doing their best to overturn the result of that referendum - downright shoddy.

The political elite and establishment didn't pay any heed at all to the concerns of those they termed the "deplorables" with the result that Donald J Trump is now the President Elect of the United States of America. If the Commons ensure that Brexit does not happen then established political parties in the UK and those who vote against the will of their constituents then stand by for even bigger shocks in the UK as they will not be forgiven.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 12:44 PM

What price democracy? You've just illustrated nicely one of those inconveniences the government would rather not confront. And we wouldn't be here wasting money in any case had the government done the right thing in the first place and not held a referendum.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 12:32 PM

Ah so the LibDems and apparently you want to pay for "Neverendums" until you get the result you want, until then any other result is meaningless - any idea what a nationwide referendum costs? The Scottish Independence one cost £13 million, the EU Referendum cost £142.4 million - how many of those do you want to pay for, they are not cheaper by the dozen.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 12:23 PM

All that is completely irrelevant, Teribus. The LibDems, in demanding a referendum on the deals we make, are not putting any other conditions on whether they will vote for Article 50. They are quite properly saying that that the people should have the chance to revisit the question once the exit terms are known. You argue that a blunt-instrument yes/no question should be the final arbiter. I argue that the referendum was undemocratic in so many ways that it's hard to know where to start - forced on the government by UKIP and a bunch of unreconstructed right-wing backwoodsmen on the Tory backbenches, asked a question that almost everybody in the country was unqualified to answer, lied to about how binding it was, lied to about how quickly it was going to be implemented, lied to about the money, lied to about the single market and people movement and, not least, a referendum which was skewed towards our leaving by dint of the winning post having been set way too far back. Now we're being told that it was undemocratic for someone to make the government abide by laws that were fought for over centuries, and that judges who assert the rule of law are enemies of the people, etc. Finally, we are told that we can't know the government's negotiating plans, which must be kept secret from us because "we mustn't show our hand." Well that's the biggest lie of all. The people who "we mustn't show our hand" to are not the ones in Brussels, who already know full well what cards we hold, but the people in this country, who might make life inconvenient for the government once they see the fudges, compromises and back-pedalling that they'll have to make. We are fully entitled in a democracy to see exactly what is going on. After that, we should be fully entitled to be asked whether we think it's good enough for us or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 11:54 AM

Why Greg?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 11:45 AM

Say good night, Professor.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 11:44 AM

Steve, Rag and BWM, instead of ridicule please answer the question.
What new information do we have on what kind of deals on the single market, free movement, etc. we will have? What tariff barriers? What laws we will have to unpick?

Is there any yet?
Rag, you clearly know of some because you ridiculed me for not knowing of any.
Or, is it just personal with you three?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit again
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 11:38 AM

Exactly correct Mr T, but the poor sods have to say something after their unexpected defeat.

Personal attacks are all they have left in the locker, over the years I have come to recognise the cycle.