BS: Anyone defend US gun law?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 05:43 PM

I am going to quit now before I get the powers to be pissed. You do realize I am just busting your balls anyway be good. I would like to see my thread on British catter music revived instead of troll threads

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 05:41 PM

Al. You are confusing cock and balls. You refer to Buster Gonads and his unfeasibly large testicals. My burden is, as the weather, changeable.

Anyway. Least said soonest mended. I don't wish to attract begging letters.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 05:33 PM

For me a bigger problem is you can buy a shit load of gun power without any checks for most states. Sadly though no C4 that you would have to make

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 05:29 PM

Now that we solved that problem can someone send money to fix our national debt

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 05:20 PM

No need to ban the firearms, just the ammunition and materials to roll their own.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 04:39 PM

Back in the day you could order a Thompson right from Sears in their catalog.. Good old days

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 04:29 PM

Duck Baker put on his fb page that more women had been murdered in the US with guns by their partner since 2001 than all the US soldiers killed in Afghan wars.
not a good situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 04:25 PM

Michael... NO ONE can sensibly defend or justify those figures....but **some** choose to look the other way! I can explain some of their rationalizations ... money, politics, testosterone...etc. but I never try to justify.

A real pragmatist (I studied it for 6-7 years) would start with what IS and examine both the causes and the political & legal possibilities as they might be pursued. This means... to MY pragmatic views... that such ideas as sending 'authorities' into every home to confiscate all guns is not a 'pragmatically' good idea. Neither is the idea of legislating that every household be required to own a firearm and training members to use it... as has been tried in a couple of communities.
You can no doubt list other stupid, not-so-pragmatic ideas; that's easy... please DO make some suggestions about what would help..other than the already logical, but hard to do bit of banning or restricting sales at gun shows!

I want MORE education and media focus on the issue and on every tragic event until every mind that is not already committed TO guns is horrified. Some of that IS happening.... perhaps one day there will be some NRA owned politician denied re-election because of his views... maybe... perhaps..

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 04:21 PM

Then you're fucked.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 04:16 PM

Very true but getting them here

To do that.. No

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 04:11 PM

And if everyone is UN-armed, the playing field is equally level. And nobody gets shot.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 04:08 PM

Yeah but if everyone is armed the playing field is level

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 03:58 PM

I am a pragmatist. So I will say it again. All the countries of the western world have an annual rate of gun deaths in single, or at most low double, figures. In the USA the rate never drops below somewhere about the 2000+ mark.

How can any of you over there justify such a situation in any terms whatever?

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 03:57 PM

"Anyone noticed the irony in gun law critics using nicknames like "backwoodsman" and "musket"?"

In my case, no irony at all. I used to be 'Strollin' Johnny' until an extremely unpleasant, aggressive female member referred to me as a Backwoodsman (on the basis that I live in a small market town in a rural county, rather than in London, which was where she lived).

As she'd decided I was a backwoodsman, I decided to take it as my name. Nothing more sinister or mysterious than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 03:46 PM

So was James Bond even more so

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 03:45 PM

Rambo was a pussy

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 03:38 PM

I often wondered who modelled for that guy in Viz with a wheelbarrow.....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 03:22 PM

Under mind me Lol not in your dreams

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 03:20 PM

Ernest. Possibly because "Musket" isn't denoting a disturbing fascination with machines designed to kill.

It was a school nickname and was fuck all to do with guns. Not my fault I have an impressibly huge willy...

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: gnu
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 03:06 PM

Good gun laws are good gun laws. Bad gun laws are bad gun laws. Been lots of threads in Mudcat in the past. Thousands of posts. Lots of good info and lots of misinformation based on sensationalism. Go back and read em if ya wanna bother. If ya just wanna spew and shit... both sides... fill yer boots and chase yer tails. At least half of yas haven't a clue what yer talkin about in the first place and, thereby, can't offer meaningful solutions.

9 year old with an Uzi? I disagree. Olddude defending his family with a legal firearm? I agree. Citizens defending themselves from any aggression with firearms? I agree. Citizens open carry of any kinda gun... I... WTF is THAT shit?

Yet again, I shall say gnightgnu because this thread will go on and on, become vile and childish at times, never come to a logical and considerate consensus... essentially, it will mirror MANY such gun threads herein this forum over the years. I'll just say this. The US will solve it's gun problem when it solves it's social problems so don't hold yer breath.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Ernest
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 02:18 PM

Thread creep alert:

Anyone noticed the irony in gun law critics using nicknames like "backwoodsman" and "musket"?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 01:43 PM

olddude's b;uster - "I can outgun the baddie even when my gun's in the safe" blablabla - is the puerile stuff of countless westerns. But even a supertrained Rambo like olddude (though Rahere seems to have undermined those boasts a bit) is no match for a nine-year-old with a semi-automatic machinegun, hehehe.

I do love that story, by the way. And what a blessing that the kid's direct hit was captured on video, so she'll have something to show the grand-kids. Let's hope she takes encouragement from such early success, and notches up a few more instructors before too long!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: bobad
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 01:30 PM

A little while ago a mother was locked up for letting her nine year old daughter go play in a park by herself yet a parent can legally bring their nine year old daughter to a shooting range and have her fire automatic weapons. WTF?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 01:29 PM

I'm sure Hollywood could find something else to glorify. Bernard Wrigley once suggested picking your nose and flicking bogies at each other.

Somebody once challenged Abraham Lincoln to a duel and asked him to choose his weapons. Lincoln said "cowpats at six paces" and that was the end of the challenge.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 01:20 PM

Dan, I suggest you try looking up the words to Bernard's hilarious monologue, "Robin Hood and the bogey rolling contest."

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Wesley S
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 01:11 PM

Just in case anyone wants to visit here's a link below. They have packages for bachelorette parties and extreme sniper adventures. What more could you ask for?


Bullets and Burgers

For some reason the recent death isn't mentioned. Fancy that.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 01:10 PM

Lol musket my booger is bigger

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 01:04 PM

" the USA gun laws indulge too much freedom on the dangerously stupid and disturbed;
while UK gun laws are far too prohibitive for intelligent responsible mature adult citizens."

**err on the side of caution**

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 12:35 PM

What sort of deranged country has a guns n burgers whatever in the first place?

Here's an idea. Stop seeing dangerous equipment as fun in the first place. Stop glorifying something that is at best a penis extension for inadequate rednecks and young disaffected results of society's failures and at worst the biggest scourge on any society.

I'm sure Hollywood could find something else to glorify. Bernard Wrigley once suggested picking your nose and flicking bogies at each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 12:12 PM

Seems to me the USA gun laws indulge too much freedom on the dangerously stupid and disturbed;
while UK gun laws are far too prohibitive for intelligent responsible mature adult citizens.

In my considered semi serious/semi facetious manner;
here is my idea..
which really should appeal to a tory government keen to see every public service organisation
paying it's way and turning over a profit one way or another...


UK Police and military firearms training ranges could be opened up to properly vetted paying customers
on designated weekends

Marketed as 'Guns Experience" packages; even sold through Amazon Local.

People from all walks of life could experience safe properly tutored hands on training
with a selection of popular weapons - as seen at cinemas and on TV.

The police and military, might even welcome the opportunity for PR
and potential recruitment...

... Yeah ok, it's the UK, it aint gonna happen....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 12:03 PM

And what kind of ass takes a nine years old to guns and burgers for full auto 30 cal fun. Charges of child abuse should be filed

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 12:01 PM

Still the thin end of the same wedge. We tried it in the UK, didn't work, so we're taking a complete time out from everything and maybe in a generation will look again. Hopefully by then the response will be well-deserved ridicule.
For those who say, "Oh, but we need it", exactly the same thing was said when it came to outlawing the short sword a couple of hundred years ago. Probably the same as when they outlawed the club a few thousand years back. But if you don't want to go there, keep bashing the rocks, guys.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:57 AM

Even though reloading your own is a quarter the price it is still an expensive Hobby if you had the full auto license

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:57 AM

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152688861644171&set=a.41417569170.48044.563084170&type=1&theater

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:52 AM

Punk they already have conversion kits to turn high power full automatic to. 22 cal. Red Jacket is awesome. But notice their clients. Mostly military and police. Nobody needs full auto. I shoot them with sheriff when I don't have to pay for the expensive ammo. Others are FFL license holders. Bill there is nothing wrong with teaching your kids to target shooting or hunt. I went hunting with dad at 8 and could shoot but only highly supervised . But with a kid and high power full auto.... Terminal stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:52 AM

....maybe ammo with smaller loads for less kickback....

Wouldn't surprise me, either,

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:51 AM

https://news.yahoo.com/american-police-departments-losing-tons-military-grade-weaponry-174620174.html

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:31 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if the "Sons of Guns" and "American Guns" workshops
haven't already R&Ded and manufactured modified Uzi and AK-47 stocks and handgrips for primary school kids...???

I've probably missed those episodes....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:19 AM

That may well be an answer to THAT particular incident... and a charge 'might' deter a few others from letting very young kids handle 'some' guns.... but I'd bet it would have little effect on those who firmly believe that their kids should 'learn about guns'. They would just agree that handling Uzis should wait a few years.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:03 AM

I have no problem with that

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:01 AM

There is an answer, Bill. Charge the parents with Murder 2 Manslaughter as they are responsible for their daughter and she killed someone with their full knowledge of what she was doing. Maybe that will dissuade anyone else from walking that route.
Being an idiot is natural. Not allowing for it in what you do is criminal.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 10:46 AM

Bill you are right. Like gun show laws and lack of federal standards. Even so nothing can protect against the terminal stupid. Some drive drunk some take pills and some own firearms. Some all the above. There are those also who talk the talk and others who walked the walk with firearms. Oh spent five minutes in the army and know everything. But know nothing in reality. Now Richard how about a good ole troll religion thread

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 10:29 AM

" If you want me to be uncritical of a society that ..."

Stu.... I'm not sure if you really, really read what I said. I am protesting against wholesale criticism of **a society as a whole**. I sit here and criticize the gun laws themselves, and by extension the mind set of individuals & groups who propagate them and defend the idiocy!
"politicians" are criticized in the same way, but there are honest, decent politicians who are trying to work within the system to mitigate the damage done by stupid, dishonest ones!
   I simply hate blanket statements which make no attempt to recognize this, or to do any creative thinking that might help! I have explained the Catch-22, circular logic our gun laws have us buried in.... what would you have us DO?


". Does the US consider itself above any criticism from the people it shares the planet with, ..."

See what I mean? The US doesn't "consider itself" at all. Individuals do... and sometimes groups do, as a collection in supposed agreement about some issue.
That sort of phrasing of your criticism makes those who basically agree with you on the crazy gun situation... like me... to be "guilty by association".

You may criticize a situation, or a policy, or an analysis, or a stupid piece of logic...etc, as long and clearly as you wish.... and I will join with you on most of it regarding guns.

Read Lighter's post above. He makes similar points to what I'm trying to say. "A law against idiots" would be nice.... but you see the problem. The idiots ensconced in congress would simply pass a law defining 'idiot' as anyone dumber than themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 09:58 AM

I read yesterday that, although there are as many guns as people in the USA, those weapons are in the hands of 1 person in 4. So the brain-dead gun-nutters are outnumbered three to one FFS! So why in Dog's name aren't the 75% who dont have guns kicking the shit out of the 25% who do? (I'm speaking metaphorically there, BTW - I mean kicking the shit out of the gun-nutters by the ballot box and by marching on Congress and the White House).

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 09:23 AM

No, she isn't the victim of bad parents or inept instructor. She is the victim of being born in a country that is not as advanced as many Western countries, a country where guns are a way of life.

We see it on our continent too where Eastern European countries have neither the will nor freedom from criminals funding politics to elevate the country to a more respectable position.

The millions of Americans who find gun culture abhorrent might do their community a good turn by standing up, being counted and see how many votes The NRA can deliver their congress members, senators and governors once apathy leaves for the coast.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 09:15 AM

All political arguements aside.
First and foremost, this killing by a 9 year old is a 'Health & Safety' in the workplace issue.

Sadly the instructor has payed for his, and his employers, negligence with his life.
This may also now become an insurance and expensive lawsuits issue..

Bullets and Burgers !!!???

If this was not already actually happening in the real world
it would be a near perfect imaginative construct for a satirical comic book & movie franchise.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 09:06 AM

> a 9 year old girl fires off a machine made for the sole purpose of killing other human beings then fine.

That was hardly the case, my friend. The girl was not trying to kill anyone, or practicing to kill anyone.

Which is obvious.

She is the victim of foolish, unthinking parents, an inept instructor (who paid with his life), and the stupid owners of the gun range who (it seems) allow 9-year-olds to shoot submachine guns that they can barely hold properly. TV News tells me this is not uncommon, though accidents are, luckily, extraordinarily rare.

We do need tougher laws, and Olddude is absolutely right about the damned gun-show loopholes, which (among other things) one of my state's senators has promised he will *never* interfere with. (Get this: he's being opposed by the Tea Party as "too liberal.")

But in the shooting-range case, the only necessary law would be a law against idiots. The tragedy was 100% preventable by people exercising reasonable caution and common sense (which most of us the US have plenty of, by the way).

What were the parents thinking? Are they able to pay for the extended counseling this poor girl will require? And how about the instructor's family? There are certainly possibilities for civil lawsuits in various directions.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 09:03 AM

Looks like my point is made above by the dickswingers. The US police shoot people with their hands up - or with toy guns - because they want to be robocop.   Nutters want to keep their penis substitutes until they are taken from their cold dead hands. Pretend frontiersmen claim to need to hunt deer to survive. Wannabee Clint Eastwood film roles brag of their prowess.

Call that a civilisation?

I didn't need to say anything, Primitive Tribesman. They spilled their hatred and conceit all by themselves. Oh, as it happens, I have a marksman badge too.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 08:58 AM

Rahere, you have OD categorized as an "ilk" because it's easy for you to lump him in with a bunch of people you don't like and dismiss him.

I'm quite sure he knows what he's talking about.
You, on the other hand, spend WAY too much time talking about yourself and your friends, and your stereotypes for me to believe you.

I can shoot, too. Neither that, nor the qualifications of a guy in the UK, has nothing to do with gun laws in the US. I figured Richard started the thread as an easy troll, so I suppose this "mine's bigger than yours" stuff is par for the course.

Out.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 08:57 AM

If UK catters say the gun situation looks bonkers it's because in a country where guns are very, very tightly restricted the whole thing does look bonkers.

This isn't just a UK perspective. There are lots of other countries with relatively loose legal controls on gun ownership where people don't make guns into objects of religious veneration in the way Americans do, and where nobody would ever think of telling anyone else they had an obligation to own one or to think about them all the time. The US is not unique in its gun legislation, but it is unique in its gun culture.

It doesn't make any sense to try to fight that culture by legislation. Nutters like olddude will kill anyone they perceive as trying to take their toys away. What does make sense is to spread the perception that gun culture is a sick aberration, and that owning a gun and obsessing about them means there's something wrong with you. So I welcome incidents like that twisted Uzi instructor getting his Darwin Award. Trying to pass a law against things like that happening is utopian stupidity and a complete waste of time; the more such events occur, the less credibility the gun culture will have. So we want MORE of them.

It needs to be seen as a decluttering issue. Americans need to start realizing they've got dangerous lumps of metal junk in their cupboards that they'd be better off without.