BS: Anyone defend US gun law?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 07:59 AM

Like the poor sound engineer in Omaha who discovered getting mixed up in police propaganda's not the wisest of moves. I know many here would think on occasion of shooting the sound engineer, but actually doing so is another thing entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Stu
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 04:39 AM

Bill, I don't know what to say mate. If you want me to be uncritical of a society that sees it as acceptable that a 9 year old girl fires off a machine made for the sole purpose of killing other human beings then fine. Does the US consider itself above any criticism from the people it shares the planet with, making it's presence felt beyond it's borders in a million different ways, good and bad?

If UK catters say the gun situation looks bonkers it's because in a country where guns are very, very tightly restricted the whole thing does look bonkers. Everyone with a gun thinks they're the ones whole should have them for whatever reason (being trained, ex cop, ex forces or whatever). If you don't understand how insane this all appears as we read about another dead gun victim, then I just don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 04:33 AM

Sorry, forgot to sign my last.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 04:17 AM

Jeri, people are dying for real in the States because the gun lobby make the rest of us shut up, and I find that seriously wrong. Those of us who are good shots, who might have done it as a, well, I don't think it should qualify as a sport, but perhaps as a meditation, have had to give up because of the nutters, and that entitles us to a voice, to criticise the irresponsibly loose US mentality which keeps it that way. Yes, I have shot at Bisley too, I know the fascination and deny myself it.

Where I left this before the Cat outing, was asking OD to substantiate his authority. He wouldn't, which suggests he can't. I should out of courtesy, as I'll never ask someone to do something I can't do myself, this guy's a personal friend, I worked with him and a number of his colleagues, heck I paid their salary and pension, for twenty years - I can talk about him because he's become well documented with a chapter all to his little self in a major work on the Squadron. I wasn't one of them, but very close to them - and you never leave, even in retirement, they sought me out. My honorary rank is Colonel. I am, noduff, two degrees of remove from the US President and UK Prime Minister, I call someone and they call the bosses. I'm joining the Savile Club at the moment, spook central. A right dick, in other words.

Now, for all that OD has a reputation here, none the less it doesn't qualify him to dictate on weaponry from a position not perceptibly different from that of the parents whose poor kiddy just shot Vanna. My target is his ilk, not him specifically, but one has to start somewhere and he's responsible for more than a little claptrap on this subject here, which has its consequences.

Most guns are designed for adult hands and adult judgement, real accountability. That poor lassie had fired that Uzi in single-shot mode beforehand, until Vanna moved it to automatic. That to me was an accident not just waiting to happen, but inevitable, and still, still, even now, nothing's happening. Death by 9 year old, the hammer of the recoil of the entire magazine being loosed off in a fraction of a second needs big hands, big arms and a big body to control it. It's exactly the point I was making, that you must have correct protocols, and guns in the hands of kiddies are not correct protocols, they do not have the strength to be competent handlers of the weapons. The first weapon I fired was a .303 Lee Enfield No4 when I was 14, and that was only just in my control: as a single shot weapon, it was OK. There is no way a nine-year old female could control thirty-odd 9mm bullets, the recoil would have been double or triple her body weight, everyone around, the cameraman and her parents included, was at risk. We have been shown film in that context of kids as young as four pulling the trigger of weapons, admittedly held rather plus or minus by an adult, blasting live rounds in the general direction, one hopes, of the butts. But the way one of those guns was flopping around, some of the rounds must have missed the butts, and from that kind of assault weapon, might travel up to three miles (yes, I was taught how to design a rifle range, that was the safety zone behind the butts in the 1970s, I don't know if it's changed since). God help the neighbours and the local livestock.

That is a worked example of why the US protocols are incorrect, murderously so. If you must use guns, train with them under the orders of a qualified Range Officer working to strict discipline and routine, and not involved with the shooters. "With a magazine of five rounds, Load". Check all weapons are pointed downrange and under the control of the firers. "At the targets in front of you, five rounds, single shots, Fire." Try to count the bangs. "Cease fire, make safe." Check all weapons remain pointed down range. "Unload, open breeches." Working from the right hand endof the firing line, positively check each weapon is cleared, no bullets in the magazine or breech, weapon still pointed downrange. As each is cleared, the firer can make the gun safe, closing the breech block and applying the safety, and withdraw from the firing position without crossing in front of any weapon not yet made safe. Any untrained firer changing position other than minor adjustments to the grip causes an immediate "Cease fire".

Half the problem is that familiarity has bred abuse. You may be competent, until the other guy has proved it too, you must presume he is not. A trained man never minds the repetition and check, fail safe. Which is why the UK doesn't have guns, because that is safest.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 03:29 AM

Yeah. I thought of this debate when I read that "the land of the free" were free and easy with giving a nine year old girl an Uzi to play with.

That's two more families grief stricken in the name of an unfortunate industry and it's shareholders.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Aug 14 - 11:19 PM

Couldn't reply sooner due to the crash

"It's not America bashing Bill, it's gun nut bashing..."

Perhaps that's what most of the people really think, but that's not what they post. I know, Stu that you in particular have clarified that you DO admire much about the US, but certain members have for years started threads of posted to them with phrases simply describing this country categorically as flawed in this way or that way.... and when it comes to gun laws, a casual reader would think that most Americans are either wild fanatics about owning guns or almost criminally complacent about tolerating them.
It may be that online time is so demanding that folks just can't be bothered to type longer explication of their complex views, and they just assume "everyone will know what we mean". I dunno....
   I have on occasion wondered about various quirks of the UK, but I try not to do so without context, my reasons, and my willingness to be educated. When it come to the maddening US gun laws...or lack thereof... all I usually read is "you crazy lot! What are you thinking?" I KNOW what the gun nuts are thinking..all 27 flavors of them, from pure collectors of antiques to rabid hoarders of guns & ammo. SOME of us are doing what we can in the face of this madness to educate, deflate ... and elect sane congressmen who will get us out of this.
In the meantime, please help by showing some sympathy and understanding of the historical & political dilemma we are in...


thank you in advance

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Wesley S
Date: 27 Aug 14 - 10:11 PM

I'm surprised this story hasn't been posted before:



Arizona Shooting Range Instructor Killed by Girl With Uzi

BY HASANI GITTENS
A shooting range instructor in Arizona was accidentally shot and killed by a 9-year-old girl who was learning how to shoot an Uzi, authorities said on Tuesday.

Charles Vacca, 39, was teaching the girl how to use the automatic weapon on Monday morning at the Last Stop outdoor shooting range in White Hills, Arizona, when she pulled the trigger and the kickback caused the gun to lurch over her head, investigators said.

Vacca was hit by a stray bullet and airlifted to University Medical Center in Las Vegas, where he was pronounced dead late Monday. The girl was at the range with her parents at the time, but their names were not released.

Sam Scarmardo, the manager for the Last Stop's shooting range, told NBC News that "the established practice at most shooting ranges is 8 years old and up with parental supervision."

He said Vacca was a "great guy, with a great sense of humor" and called him "very conscientious and very professional."

Scarmardo said that the range has never had a similar incident in over a decade of being open — "not even a scratch."

"I just ask everybody to pray for Charlie, and pray for the client, she's going to have a hard time," said Scarmardo.

The Arizona Department of Public Safety referred inquiries to the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, which didn't return calls for comment.

Ronald Scott, a Phoenix-based firearms safety expert, said most instructors usually have their hands on guns when children are firing high-powered weapons. "You can't give a 9-year-old an Uzi and expect her to control it," Scott told the Associated Press.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 11:37 AM

My apologies to all and sadly big al is right. You could get a Thompson at a gun show but not fully automatic. However the gun is too easy to make fully automatic. That is same for the Ar15 or ak47. We need to get rid of the gun show. The checks and balances don't apply at them and it is a big loophole for criminals

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 05:23 AM

Why bite when you can shoot from a safe distance?

Sorry.. Couldn't resist it.

Reminds me of The Simpsons where Ned Flanders complained that his wife was always underlining text in his bible and not her own copy. Homer said "it's a good job you don't have guns in your house."

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 04:31 AM

Precisely, Stu. Couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately, on sensitive topics like this one, over-sensitive Americans seem to have an unfortunate tendency to bite the hands of those who are trying to be their friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Stu
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 04:17 AM

"he simply made some of the points I have made in the past about America bashing"

It's not America bashing Bill, it's gun nut bashing. I'm sick of saying how much I love the US and it's people so feel free to form your own opinion of my intentions (hum?).

In truth, all many of the UK posters are doing is pointing out that life is better without the constant fear gun ownership causes. We know this, because we live in a society that, by common consent doesn't want guns on our streets. The guns that are on our streets are either in the hands of the filth or criminals. The coppers frequently make mistakes with guns and shoot the wrong person, and there is always a big discussion/official inquiry etc afterwards.

The guns in the hands of criminals tend to be used against each other. I know this as a relative is a DS with the Met and once worked on gun crime and it was gangs shooting each other, albeit not often.

It's worth getting a view from the outside, although I understand that any criticism of the the USA, however well-intentioned is seen as some sort of act of belligerence by some of the locals and causes the sort of ultra-defensive reaction seen on threads like this. That and fear.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 04:16 AM

Anyone seen anything of Bunter lately? He started this, and then walked away.

Typical.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 04:07 AM

poor old John Dillinger - he had to risk his life to raid a police armoury to get hold of a Thompson......nowadays it seems it could get the lot from a gun fair.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 03:38 AM

Latter......

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 02:54 AM

Fishing with guns is cheating...

I hear what you are saying about target fun Dan. It doesn't change my view.

When I left school, I joined the RAF although due to them wishing to tinker with apprenticeships, I left after three months. However, during my recruit training at RAF Swinderby, I got my marksman certificate with a 7.62 SLR. I know the "thrill." I remain appalled that the thrill of a target is replaced by the thrill of another human for those who take their hobby slightly more seriously.

A friend seems to spend most weekends at Bisley, the home of competitive bang bang here in The UK. Fair enough. He talks of his latest Italian guns, which wood makes the best stock, the pitch of the barrel rifling etc in the same way I am rattling on to everybody I know about my latest guitar, hand made to my specs.

The difference is between target sport and bearing arms. I am sad to note that you have no issue with the former.

I do.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 02:44 AM

Let's let this one go, Dan, because it isn't worth getting worked up about.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:54 PM

28th, sorry

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:53 PM

I'm reminded of my mother saying that something or other was "as easy as shooting a duck in the chest" - we *think* she was reaching in a strange Hungarian way for "as easy as shooting fish in a barrel" but were too busy falling around on the floor laughing to ask.

Also misread the above post as "my 28h martini is enough" so I should really stop now.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:40 PM

Big al no not really. I like shooting but fishing is my passion along with song writing. And I don't need a Thompson. My D28 martin is enough. My arsenal is because everyone dies and leaves them to me. The handguns I bought for target and competition

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:20 PM

Dan, you don't have to do a house to house search....so you don't really need the Thompson.

you seem to be as nuts about guns as I am about guitars.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:07 PM

I suspect some of the people are forming opinions about guns in the US based on TV shows and films and haven't spent time here. It's not reality. Questioning is good; believing, not so much.

PFR, here's one review of "Blue Caprice" on rogerebert.com.

But I do think that when you base a story on life while removing or altering a lot of key details, you should fill the voids with images and ideas that are just as fascinating. "Blue Caprice" doesn't do that. Granted, it's fiction, so it's under no obligation to educate or enlighten us, but we should at least get a sense that it understands the people and story it's transforming into fiction, and that it has something to say. There are times where it's hard to say if the film is erring on the side of subtlety or just playing it artfilm-cool, so that you can't accuse it of failing to do things that it is, in fact, trying to do, and failing.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:04 PM

Yup Janie I am putting my guns down now honey xx love but a martin Guitar is the best and I will not budge on that one d-28

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Janie
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 10:56 PM

Darlin' Dan, how about taking a deep breath. xo, Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 10:50 PM

A hamilton 992b Pocket watch is much easier t . Carrying than my glock

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 10:19 PM

Punk I think the Washington killer got his weapons at a gun show if I remember properly. That's a law we need to get rid of

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 10:16 PM

Jeri.. Apologies for out burst.. Seems all mudcat wants is bullshit threads anymore so people who been here a long time like me say bring it on you get what you serve
Now we need some religion threads and political ones how about it Richard.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 10:11 PM

Punk those guys were terrorists for sure. That is why good guys need to be vigilant.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 10:01 PM

Just watched "The Washington Snipers" (2013)
"Blue Caprice" (original title)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2027064/

A low budget indie movie - Not a great film.
Underwhelming, patchy narative, requires patience to watch to the end.

But interesting and relevant to this thread.

No idea how well researched or accurate this movie is.

It depicted downtrodden ex military guys.
One was shown to keep his arsenal of guns in a chicken wire cage in his garage,
secured only with an unlocked padlock.

These were the weapons taken and used by the snipers.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 09:52 PM

And for the past 8 years Richard threads have costed mudcat in the loss of some major talent that left. So if that is all you want in threads then lets play I am here

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 09:46 PM

Rahere you don't know the first fucking thing about me do you. I put my experience and training against yours anytime by a factor of 10 . But why are you so worried about america do you live here no but you have fun with total shit threads started by an Asshole. I served my country in ways you could not imagine. And no I won't explain. I don't answer to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Janie
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 08:57 PM

Quoting from one of the many articles in the link I posted earlier - a pretty exhaustive coverage of issues, positions and opinions related to gun control/rights in America, published by News21.

"It's the beauty and the danger of America's Constitution," said Adam Winkler, a law professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, and a Second Amendment expert. "Its great generalities are so vague that anyone can interpret them in light of their own experience and their own interests. And indeed, the Second Amendment is one of the most confusing textual provisions of the Constitution."

Says a lot about how formed USA people's positions already are, that, as best I can tell, no one here has taken even a peek at it. Can't say as I blame you. It is extensive and the lay-out is a bit confusing. I haven't read or watched the entire yet, and have spend several hours over several evenings so far going through it.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 08:20 PM

copied from Facebook for olddude: *grin*


I took that Zimbio "Which Very Rare Disorder are you?" quiz and got

Gun Turretts Syndrome- The compulsive shouting out of the names/ calibers/firing rates of various firearms during normal conversation.
GTS patients have difficulties at airport security, Sunday church services and banks; and are frequently mistaken for a member of a militant survivalist clan.

" Wanda, don't HOWITZER know how you feel about dating coworkers THOMPSONSUBMACHINEGUN but I've got COLT45 a couple courtside LUGAR Laker's ticket for Saturday and 12POUNDER I was wondering if you AK-47 were busy."

GTS patients are advised against jobs as a hostage negotiator or Yoga Instructor

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 07:09 PM

Last year, there was this article about the CMP. I suppose that's what the disclaimer was about.
I'd have to research what has happened with that supposed plan.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 06:58 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Marksmanship_Program

No...I never heard of it till now. Seems like a fair idea until you read that they sell surplus military rifles to 'approved' club members.

I could not find any data on how many clubs there are or how many go on to military service... but I did find a disclaimer about how stories of its demise were not true. Maybe it's not a well-attended setup.

No matter what the truth is about claims of military accuracy and the virtue of particular weapons, I find those to be only superficially relevant to whether & how civilians should be allowed to buy and own various weapons.

I totally agree that gun show laws should be revised and strengthened, but I have no faith that it would solve much for very long. I suspect it would just lead to more smuggling and private trading. It would at least make it more trouble to make certain sales and 'possibly' strengthen penalties.

If all new guns were stopped tomorrow, gun crime would continue and the many millions of illegal guns would circulate for many years.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: pdq
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 06:37 PM

Any Grateful Dead fans out there?

Yes, Jerry Garcia was a ...true libertarian

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 06:27 PM

Stim it is true.. It was stated by a general when he was talking about the military on tv. The first Gulf War there was a concern
That the kill rate from head shots was so high
How do they know. Every engagement there are drones and helmet cams and the outside human rights folks filed a complaint that was investigated

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 06:07 PM

Sorry,olddude, I but with all due respect, am a bit doubtful about your "shot in the head" story. It's a bit vague. It is close to impossible to go back and make an inquiry into manner and cause of enemy casualties. It's hard enough to get accurate information on our own.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 06:06 PM

Ever hear of the civilian marksmanship program. That is supported by the us government.
Why cause they want more skills in shooting 2nd admendment for skilled soldiers

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 05:56 PM

Hey Bill, lots of problems solved get rid of the gun show and most street guns will dry up

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 05:41 PM

I told a cop 10 years ago don't shoot reloads in your glock unless you really know how to make them. Blew his gun up. The 1911 will feed anything but not the glock on reloads. I do my own but check every round closely

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 05:31 PM

Best carry gun i think is the glock 23 but not fo. AA novice. I carry one. 40cal no external safety just trigger so it's fast but many have put a new dent in their ass by not avoiding the trigger when holstering. I know rap will say the 1911. 45 but it's big and heavy. The. 40 cal or 10 mm round what it really is I think superior to the. 45

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 05:22 PM

Carlos Hathcock was not a typical "old country boy". He was unusual even among trained snipers in his patience, skill and stubborn perseverance.

Owning and handling firearms does not always result in "already skilled marksmen"

-----------------

Backwoodsman: you say "We know that it's not simple, that there's a huge cultural implant to be overcome ..." and then follow it with "what's wrong with you>?"

WHAT you? Nothing is wrong with many of us! What would you have us do? A "can do nation" is a slogan, not a simplistic answer to the very things you admit are "not that simple".
*WE*& are not "a nation of people who think it's their right, and perfectly OK, for every citizen to possess firearms,..."...*some* are that way, and they have bought congressmen on their side! What part of the Catch-22 situation of 2nd Amendment, legal process & "states rights" coupled with Gerrymandering and fear mongering do you not understand?

We see constantly various media reporting, explaining and educating on the issue... but those who want to keep all those guns do not WATCH those media... and they have a vested interest in NOT seeing a sane view of the situation.

I sometimes think that a 'liberal' buying an AK-47 and shooting up NRA headquarters might get the message across, but they would just claim it proved their point..

somehow, images of Sisyphus & King Canute come to mind

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 05:20 PM

Lol jeri like I said honey if they want shit threads so be it. I will answer any gun questions
Ya know swat uses all the new fangled automatic weapons but nothing beats the Thompson. . 45 cal high rate of fire easy to clean and will work even if it was in the mud
I would want one if I had to do house to house search and destroy. Tends to creep up on full auto if you don't lean into it

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 05:07 PM

Somebody should get out a ruler so the rest of us don't have to listen to this shit. I'm sure Olddude knows what he's talking about. I think Rahere feels like he has to keep proving himself. You might know how to shoot, but you never quite figured out when to shut up, have you?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 04:57 PM

OldDude, I was military, infantry, I taught firearms handling, I shot at competition level. Yes if you must have firearms around it is essential you are not only thoroughly practiced in using them, but also be proficient in it - and the two are not the same thing, some people are practiced in missing every barn door in sight, making you a danger to the general public and utterly safe from the point of view of your target. The question is whether it is necessary to have firearms around. The UK shows it is not, with a very few exceptions. Me, I'd not shot for over 20 years when a retired colonel literally threw a rifle I'd trained on at me, without warning: I caught it instinctively at it's centre of balance and cleared it in a single movement, without thinking. That's the level of training I had, my body remembered.

I'm not clear from your postings what your training was. You say the SEALs know you - which is not the same thing as having been a SEAL. You say you and your family and the military - which again suggests you were not. I think you've made up your safety protocols, which means you're potentially a danger. I'd love to be wrong, but who trained you and how?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 04:54 PM

Sadly they don't sell rocket propelled grenades cause if legal I would have them also

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 04:10 PM

At Walmart I can buy all sorts of BB guns and air rifles that shoots a pellet up to 1,800 - 2,100 feet per second. No license or waiting period required.

However you won't find them at a Walmart in Maryland or other Commie socialist liberal pinko gay tree hugging progressive states. You will find them in real American stand your ground states where murder is legal as long as you were at some point scared of your victim. Well, ya also gotta be white which goes without sayin.

They don't say how many pumps per shot it requires to fire one pellet at 2,100 FPS.

Someday there will be a truck tire attachment that will make your air rifle fully automatic. Hoowee , that wood dang sure liven up the 'ol double D truck stop/shootin range on a hot Sat. nite.

Ya gotta admit it . Guns are fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punfolkrocker
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 03:35 PM

hathcock will travel ????

sorry, too terrible a pun to just ignore....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 03:09 PM

Sorry spelling is carlos hathcock

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 02:53 PM

Not true al my air rifle fires a. 155 pellet @1080 fps. A. 45 handgun is 900 fps
The pellet gun takes a person out just as quick and has no sound to speak of. They are not toys I use to hunt squirrel with one