Folklore: The music of Wales

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 02:02 PM

Perhaps that another question then, Albert. How popular are such events in Wales?

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 02:01 PM

Can I just take the time out to invite any Mudcatters who are visiting Wales in the future to come along to the Valley Folk Club in Pontardawe near Swansea .We meet for a singers night on the first friday of the month and have a guest performer on the third friday.
The venue is the Ivy Bush on Brecon Rd just a few minutes walk from the centre of Ponty.
Two months ago a party of some 25 Japanese students had a great time singing and listening at the singers night and one of our regulars was able to launch into a Japanese song she had learnt previously at a voice workshop.A very good night!
albert

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 12:49 PM

The Devil's Bridge

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: sian, west wales
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 12:36 PM

Bryn, re: cath baw that's the point I was trying to make, but with delicacy verging on obscurity.

Jeff, I go through Devil's Bridge quite often. Two of the great Welsh ethnomusicologists/tradition bearers live a few miles south of there, and Robin Huw Bowen, the triple harper, lives a few miles west of there. I've had it in my mind to organize a picnic/session for folkies on the narrow-guage rail line some day ...

sian

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Mick Tems
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 11:22 AM

Or:

When the coal comes from the Rhondda down that Taff Vale railway line,
(with my little pick and shovel, I'll be there!)
When the coal comes from the Rhondda down that Taff Vale railway line,
(with my little pick and shovel, I'll be there!)

I'll be there, I'll be there,
with my little pick and shovel, I'll be there,
When the coal comes from the Rhondda
with my little pick and shovel, I'll be there!

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 11:13 AM

Hwyl, bob !

I thought 'cathbaw' was 'cat sh*t', and if I think 'Mudcat' in Cymraeg (Diolch chi, dyn Splott !) it is 'cath llaca'.

Peace, if I can help, PM me. Thanks for your friendship.

Other books by Cordell - 'The Hosts of Rebecca' ; 'Rape of the Fair Country' and, if you can find it (not about Cymru) 'If you believe the Soldiers', which is so plausible, it might give you nightmares

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 11:07 AM

"Subject: RE: What song do you want at your funeral?
From: GUEST,Dr Price
Date: 16 Sep 06 - 06:12 AM

Our good friend Murray came from Bracknell in leafy Berkshire, but he loved South Wales. He died of lung cancer, and his will requested that we sing the miners' "gutter choir" union marching song When The Coal Comes From The Rhondda at his funeral. We journeyed across the Severn Bridge, and sang with gusto to our dear pal in the coffin:

You men of Tonypandy who dig the veins of coal
(With my little pick and shovel, I'll be there!)
The boss may own the colliery, but he'll never own your soul
(With my little pick and shovel, I'll be there!)

When the coal comes from the Rhondda,
When the coal comes from the Rhondda,
With my shovel and my pick and my little lamp and wick,
When the coal comes from the Rhondda, I'll be there!

The funny thing was that Murray was an arch-Conservative, but he really liked that song!

I take my name from Dr William Price, genius, visionary and self-styled Druid who lived in Caerffili and Llantrisant in the 19th century. Given that Dr Price opened the way for cremation, how about Fire by The Crazy World Of Arthur Brown?"

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Mick Tems
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 11:01 AM

I have remembered When The Coal Comes From The Rhondda now! I can't place the document just at this minute, but I think the words are:

Pass me my pick and shovel, butty,
I'm going down this hole for some coal.
Pass me my pick and shovel, butty,
I'm going down this hole for some coal.

...and that was it!

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 10:42 AM

I have been extremely busy with work and emergency calls. I'm sorry to have been away. I expect not to be back much until Wednesday, but thank you all so so much for your guidance and friendship. I will attend to requests of me by week's end. Just can't get to it sooner, my apologies.

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Mick Tems
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 07:41 AM

It's Welsh, and sung to the tune of Calon Lan, a big hit in Welsh Victorian times. The chorus "Keep your your hands upon your wages and your eyes upon the Scale" is a direct reference to The Sliding Scale, which the South Wales Miners' Federation struck in protest to overcome. Over the years, the South Wales miners emigrated far and wide to America, from Scranton PA to California, and they carried the protest song The Miner's Life with them. The Folk Process mixed The Miner's Life up with the American Gospel song Life Is Like A Mountain Railroad, and once again it crossed the Atlantic, where Durham colliers sung their version from learned from American miners.

To me, it doesn't matter in the slightest if we - or you - are singing the "correct" song. That's the Folk Process for you. To the Durham miners, their song is every bit as valid as our Miner's Life -perhaps more so, as they have carried on the tradition. That's a thought: on Wednesday at Llantrisant Folk Club, I'm going to sing the Welsh version of A Miner's Life (which I'm proud to say I collected) and re-establish it again!

Reference: A Miner's Life, from my 1977 solo album Gowerton Fair (SFA074).

Incidentally, I DID write When The Coal Comes From The Rhondda, from a fragment I gleaned from four South Wales miners who were having a drink and a sing-song on a ferry to Ireland. This ubiquitous song, known as an anthem to Welsh choirs everywhere, is very incomplete - in fact, it peters out after only one verse. Our Calennig version is the earliest and the most complete - and I took the liberty of changing the chorus, too!

Mick Tems

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: greg stephens
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 05:26 AM

Splott Man: very interesting, your comments about "A Miner's Life". Are you saying the song is Welsh in origin, and it was first sung to Calon Lan? Your post is slightly ambiguous. When would this have been?

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Splott Man
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 04:08 AM

Sorry I started and didn't finish.

Regarding protest songs, there are of course the "gutter choir" songs which were born out of mining disputes.

I'm sure Dr Price will have more to say on the matter, but two examples I know: A Miner's Life, which in this area is sung to the tune Calon Lan, it later got set in the US to Life Is Like a Mountain Railroad, which is the more commonly known version in the UK; also When the Coal Comes From the Rhondda to the tune When They call the Roll up Yonder.

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Splott Man
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 04:02 AM

On the subject of pro

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Anne Lister
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 03:33 AM

South and West Wales are also beautiful, you know ...

Anne

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: GUEST,Jeff
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 10:56 PM

OMG, this is killing me!...in a good way. I've got two maps on the wall of my bike-stuff room. They're the OS Landranger #s 115 and 116 of the coastal area of North Wales from Angelsey over to Rhyl or thereabouts. This thread is making me ache for a visit. My wife got me a Welsh flag(red dragon) cycling shirt from foska.com for Christmas last year and I wear it on group rides once in a while. It ALWAYS fosters conversations re Wales.

Sian-Thank you for letting me know about the plaque w/t old man's words near Pencader...it'll be on my list of 'must visits' when we come over.   Have you been to 'Devil's Bridge' near Aberystwyth? Beautiful area.

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Mick Tems
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 10:14 PM

Hi, Peace,

I'm just flitting around, keeping tabs on this very friendly and learned discussion. Right now, Taplas (the all-Wales glossy magazine relating to folk and suchlike) is being produced, and I'm awfully busy - so that's why I haven't contributed too much. Thanks for starting this thread - the time is 3:10am, and I'm just about to fall into bed. I'll be sound asleep by the time my feet hit the pillow...

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: sian, west wales
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 02:27 PM

Thank you Peace - the pillow was indeed soft, and I'm ready for it again now. Spent the afternoon on a guided walk along Llansteffan beach with a geological expert from our National Museum. Very interesting. (Went from the village, up the estuary to Scott of the Antarctic's summer home, and back.)

Jeff, my friends are impressed that I learned about Hywel Dda (whose memorial gardens aren't far from me) in Canadian High School, as one of the 5 great lawmakers of the human race. Darned if I can remember who the rest were: Moses, Hamurabi, Hywel Dda + ? + ?    I imagine the Magna Carta must have been in there somewhere ...

I think there's a plaque in Pencader (just north of here) with the Old Man's words on it.

Chris, I agree: aren't Parti Cut Lloi good? And really funny in live performance too. They are of the tradition from which male voice choirs grew. The CD does have 3 (I think) Plygain carols on it but the rest are 'other'. Re: carol books, Gwasg Pantycelyn published two in the 1980s - "Awn i Fethlem" and "Wrth y Breseb" - but they're largely Welsh translations from other countries/languages and I wouldn't be surprised if they're out of print. Rhiannon Ifans, who ran our workshop yesterday, has published a collection of Plygain carols in 2003 - "Yn Dyrfa Weddus" - through Cymdeithas Llyfrau Ceredigion. The most recent publications of OLD carols (Plygain and other ) is "Hen Garolau Cymru" published last year by Cwmni Cyhoeddi Gwynn - excellent selection of 60 carols.

Oh - and 'cathbaw' would translate as ... well, something to do with cats, but not mud, tho' just as messy! 8-}

Peace, if you PM me with an address and a few guidelines re: your musical interests I'll see what I can dig up to send to you.

sian

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 10:11 AM

Forgot to mention this great site and info on the great plygain cd that was produced last year by Sian James -
parti cut lloi

Chris

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 10:03 AM

thanks, Sian - Carol Y Super is in Hen Carolau Cymru, and I'll pass it on to our music director for next year. Can you - or others - recommend a good songbook of other Xmas carols in Welsh?

Jeff - thanks for the great posts - croeso i Cathbaw!

Chris

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: GUEST,Jeff
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 08:08 PM

Peace,

Yes, I'll join the mudcat asap. As an interesting bit of history Hywel Dda(Howell the Good) developed a system of laws granting significant rights to women, such as 1/2 of property upon divorce, etc. This set of documents preceded the Magna Carta by 300 years. Also, most of the surviving documents are written in Welsh and not Latin like most of the documents of the time period. The property rights guaranteed women didn't become part of English law for over a thousand years from the dates of the Law of Hywel.

And check out Owain Glyndwr and related history.

My personal favorite, sort of explains the relentless pride in language and culture felt by the Welsh. In 1193 Giraldus Cambrensis recorded a speech by an elderly citizen of Pencader to Henry II of England:

"This nation, O King may now, as in former times be harassed, and in great measure weakened and destroyed by you and other powers, and it will also prevail by its laudable exertions, but it can never be totally subdued through the wrath of man, unless the wrath of God shall concur. Nor do I think that any other nation than this of Wales, or any other language, whatever may hereafter come to pass, shall on the day of severe examination before the Supreme Judge, answer for this corner of the earth."

Strong words. A remarkable combination of deference and defiance.

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 04:35 PM

May the pillow on which you rest your feet be as soft as your heart.

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: sian, west wales
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 04:32 PM

I'm just back from running a Plygain workshop all day (really was great fun!) so I'm completely knackered. Apologies if I can't get to grips with some of the 'deeper' questions here. My brain is addled and my throat hurts (had to sing soprano; I should have retired my Top Eff years ago). So, Chris, the final song of a Plygain - sung ONLY by the men - is Carol y Swper. Until last year I (and everyone else, almost, on last year's workshop) thought this was so named because it was the closing carol before you went to the church vestry for a slap up meal. Not so. We hang our collective head in shame, as it turns out the 'Supper' is the same feast as referred to in many spirituals, ie. 'the welcome table', our feast in paradise, etc.

Jeff, Sian James is still going strong and has brought out a couple of albums in recent years - one is particularly 'trad'. I imagine it will be on the Sain website. I actually have a box of them in the boot of my car to return to her someday but that's something only my Santee might be interested in.

Peace, I may yet think of something useful to say about issues in Wales ... but can't think of any offhand now that wouldn't be cured by more people making more music together, which keeps it nicely in the 'music of Wales' category.

Off for a quick cuppa tea and feet up.

sian

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 04:16 PM

Somewhere I have an LP (never listened to it, I need to fix my record player) of a Welsh equivalent of the Scottish bothy song - Welsh=language songs created by seasonal gangs of agricultural workers. Somebody must be able to remind me what that genre is called and what the LP might have been.

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 04:14 PM

Thank you, Rich D. I do realize that I have the ability to drive people crazy with questions and I appreciate your patience with me.

Wales has a thoroughly interesting history, and I think what I will do is look into a distance education course through one of Alberta's universities.

I tripped over the story of The Mumbles Train, then I checked the DT for songs about it. Are there any kicking around?

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: GUEST,richd
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 04:04 PM

Wow Peace, that's a number of biguns. The most important social issues I think would vary a lot by the location of whose talking. So where I am the social issues are health and premature death, unemployment and underachievment amoung young people and how to cope with these to assist the survival of former industrial towns and villages. I also have an idea that this might be true for other communites in other areas of Wales.
One reason why south Wales might be treated seperately in some histories is that it is urban, (post) industrial and English speaking.It also has the majority of the population. The process by which the eastern valleys of the coalfield lost the Welsh language is both complex and painful, and I think that it caused real rifts within Welsh culure and nation which are still very problematical. Which brings to folksongs and history...One of the major products of south Wales is historians! Its taken very seriously

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 03:39 PM

You folks are wonderful, and I'm beginning to get the idea that Welshmen/women are very scholarly with regard to their history.

Jeff,

I would appreciate any music from/about Wales. I notice we have no way to communicate other than this thread, and threads are not the best place to put e-mail addresses. Is there any chance you'd join Mudcat so we can exchange messages?



As an observation, I suspect that the Welsh are a very proud people, so please excuse me for asking the following questions.


What are the most important social issues in Wales?

In 1087 CE, William Rufus (son of William the Bastard) tried genocide on the Welsh people. From what I have been reading, the Welsh have been no strangers to war in the course of their history. Did that further 'unite' the people of Wales? And as an add-on to that, I have noticed that in some writings the region of South Wales seems to be accorded almost a separate accounting in the various histories. Am I imagining things or is there something more fundamental that I'm missing?

Does Wales have 'minority rights' problems?

In the 750s (?) CE, the Mercian king, Offa, built earthen works to keep the Welsh out (the Romans did the same to my to the north of England). What was the reason for Offa's act? Was it because the people were fearsome, bothersome, Welsh, what?



Please understand that it is very difficult to ask many of these things because I have NO intention of insulting anyone. If I do, it's from ignorance, not design.

Bruce

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: GUEST,richd
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 03:17 PM

Soon after my last post I found the other thread. All is explained.

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 03:14 PM

Reply to Richd,
The performance in Glynneath is not a literal adaption of the Cordell.The performance takes its name and inspiration from the work of Cordell but is more of a free ranging view of the history of the valleys.

The performers are all linked to either the Pontneathvaughn Music Club or the Valley Folk Club in neighbouring Pontardawe.

However there was a full stage adaptation of the book about ten years ago by, I think, Theatre West Glamorgan which was critically and publicly acclaimed.
The performance in Glynneath will be a "homelier " presentation!!
albert

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: GUEST,richd
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 02:47 PM

So the performance of "Song of the Earth" in Glyneath is a stage adaptation of the book? Is the adaptation any good?

yes, it would be good if Siwsan George were still with us. Wasn't "Traditional Songs of Wales" on Saydisk? Heard 9bach do "Can Merthyr" recently- very good version, also sang "Pontypridd". I do wonder about the wisdom of bass and drums though.

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 11:45 AM

Thanks to all for the great posts -
We're carrying on Welsh traditions here in Oregon too - doing 3 plygain carols for our Lessons and Carols service, and I'm doing some other Welsh carols for the Portland Welsh Society Xmas Tea.

Sian - what's the traditional last Plygain song you mentioned?

Dr. P - hope your song book can get published. Hoping that the new Welsh folk music center - Ty Siamas - will also get involved with similar projects, as well as the good folks at Sain.

Buddeg - we're planning a music-centered trip to N Wales next Fall - where's the pub you mentioned? What's on tap?

Peace - for a bit of Welsh music on a great Welshman's radio program, try Frank Hennessy's Celtic Heartbeat, archived on Radio Wales, and you might also like John ac Alun on Radio Cymry.

Diolch yn fawr i pawb, Chris in Portland

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 08:51 AM

Song Of The Earth is the title of a novel by Alexander Cordell.Its a great read and the background to the novel is the industrialisation of the Welsh valleys in the early 19th century.
The novel deals with the attempt to take a canal barge out of one valley into another but Cordell's sense of history and the people of the valley makes the book come alive.Many in Wales actually got a sense of the vitality of our history through the reading of his books.Cordell was actually English and sadly died about 12 years ago.Check out his books like Song Of The Earth or The Fire People.Great stuff!
Albert

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 08:22 AM

Thanks Mary, we are not Jones for nothing

Cheers

les jones

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 07:51 AM

We did have until recently Siwsaun George until she passed away who sung in Welsh and her cd label was sain.



Scooby.

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 07:23 AM

Don't forget Robin Huw Bowen who has several publications of triple-harp tunes that contain fantastic dance tunes and are very useable for ceilidhs or twmpathau.
Here is a link to the Welsh Folk Dance Society which lists various publications.
Welsh Folk Dance publications

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 04:13 AM

Are Welsh dance tunes available on a website ?

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: GUEST,Jeff
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 11:59 PM

Semi-jackpot, Peace.

What I've been able to dig out so far is a cd made from a cassette recording of Paul from Gog's. It's 47 mins long @ 12 tracks. Couldn't find my copy of Blodnau'r Grug, but I'll keep at it. A Sian James recording called 'Gweini Tymor', again from cassette to CD. And Michael Raven's 'Welsh Guitar', 36 tracks in all. The Sian James and Michael Raven CDs may still be available. There's a book that goes w/t Michael Raven which I have...somewhere.

Let me know if you're interested in any of this.

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: GUEST,richd
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:05 PM

What is "The Song of the Earth"?

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 07:56 PM

The western part of the coalfield that Sian mentions above was the anthracite coalfield which extended across to the Gwendraeth valley in the westan area which is at the heart of welsh speaking South Wales.
Anthracite is a much sought after hard coal used in industry but make no mistake the deat of the miners in 1985 at the hands of Thatcher's state machinery had terrible consequences on not only the coal industry [which was decimated ] but also on the social, cultural and civic fabric of the valleys from the Gwendraeth in the west right across to the eastern valleys.
Albert
The Song Of The Earth performance in Glynneath later this month should be very interesting and enjoyable as the turmoil in S

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: GUEST,richd
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 07:53 PM

That's right, the Wye is off the coalfield, so the silver (rich) bells would be happy and unworried, whilst the bells of the coalfield just to the south would be doing much worse. At the time the that Idris Davies wrote the words the eastern valleys were undergoing deep economic depression. Other coal mining areas of Wales, including west of Neath(hence the ambiguity) were more properous, because they mined anthracite. men from the Valleys around Merthyr and Rhymney would often travel west to work in the anthracite pits. Cardiff is south of the coalfield, hence their ambigous line. There's also a strand of sadness/loss in his poems about language too- Idris Davies was part of the last generation of mass working class Welsh language culture at the top of the valleys.

Sadly, as I look from my window above Merthyr and watch the heavy machinary ripping the top of the mountain opposite at Ffos Y Fran to get at the coal I am forced to reluctantly say that you could answer the brown bells of Merthyr by saying- 'not much hope for the future, sorry lads'.

If you are interested in the literature of the time and place in south Wales that Idris Davies is part of then there are a couple of writers worth looking out for- Gwyn Thomas and Lewis Jones, both Rhondda men. Some of their books have just been reprinted as part of the excellent Library of Wales. I don't know anything about any writers from north Wales, but the English language literature of industrial south Wales is very rich at the time of Idris Davies. As to conemporary writers there's Rachel Tresize from the Rhondda (is there a theme here?)and a whole bunch of tidy poets including Tony Curtis, Mike Jenkins.

There's some really good history books. Gwyn Alf Williams "When was Wales?" and "The Merthyr Rising" Dai Smith "Aneurin Bevan and the World of south Wales". Hywel Francis and him wrote "The Fed" heavy going but definitive.

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: sian, west wales
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 07:12 PM

Peace, somewhere there is a thread on the Bells of Rhymney. A good one too if I remember rightly.

Re: the valleys mentioned, they are mostly in south east Wales and are what we'd call "The Valleys" - those that radiate up from Newport, Cardiff and Swansea. I don't have much connection with the area but I wouldn't have thought of the Wye as being one of The Valleys, although it is 'a' valley, if you follow me. The Valleys were the main hub of coal mining, but coal was mined across the south west as far as, I suppose, south Pembrokeshire. There was coal mining in north east Wales as well and one of the most infamous mining disasters of Wales happened at Gresford near Wrexham. There are poems and even a hymn about it, and it rates as one of those 'touchstones' in Welsh memory.

And, of course, there was also gold, lead and copper mining, as well as quarrying, so the Welsh have done their fair share of rummaging about in Mother Earth's bloomers over the centuries. (The hulls of Nelson's ships were clad in Anglesey copper and I think the USA also used it in some of the republic's first coinage.)

Jeff, Blodau'r Grug is out of print indeed although one can still find copies here and there. The second volume is called Cadw Twmpath. Fortunately, there's more interest in republishing these days (with a revival in the instrumental tradition) so perhaps some will see light of day again.

sian

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Anne Lister
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 06:47 PM

Here's a little fairly shameless plug - we are setting up our home to be a writers' retreat for anyone who wants a place in Wales to come and work on a creative project (music or writing, we're not fussy!) We're in South Wales, on the edge of some beautiful scenery but also in an area with a fascinating industrial history.
If you're interested in coming to visit, PM me and I'll tell you more!

Anne

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Peace
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 06:12 PM

Man, oh, man (and lady) that country has LOTS of history. I have a question that may seem off the wall. But here it is anyway: Idris Davies' lyrics and Pete Seeger's music created a beautiful song (one I first heard on Pete's "We Shall Overcome" album recorded at Carnegie Hall in the early 1960s).

Bells of Rhymney
Idris Davies / Pete Seeger

Oh what will you give me
Say the sad bells of Rhymney
Is there hope for the future
Say the brown bells of Merthyr
Who made the mine owner
Say the black bells of Rhondda
And who robbed the miner
Say the grim bells of Blaina

They will plunder willy-nilly
Say the bells of Caerphilly
They have fangs, they have teeth
Shout the loud bells of Neath
Even God is uneasy
Say the moist bells of Swansea
And what will you give me
Say the sad bells of Rhymney

Throw the vandals in court
Say the bells of Newport
All would be well if if if if if if
Say the green bells of Cardiff
Why so worried, sisters, why
Sang the silver bells of Wye
And what will you give me
Say the sad bells of Rhymney


As sung by The Ian Campbell Folk Group


The song has always had a special meaning for me because my grandfather had been a coal miner in his youth when he lived in England. I won't remark on the obvious dangers of that work, or what I perceive to be the greed of the company owners. That said, has Davies included all the main mining districts?

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Peace
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 05:42 PM

Wow, THANK you, Jeff.

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: GUEST,Jeff
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 04:56 PM

Bore da Peace!

A few years ago I did a cycle tour of Wales following the A470 from Conwy to Cardiff. Collected several recordings. The favorite of mine is by a fellow named Paul who was the owner of a music store called 'Gogs' in Llandudno. Very gracious was he as he played me several selections on whistle and accordian. I'll dig back through my stuff and post back here as I've got some books on Welsh history including the aforementioned 'A History of Wales'. I lent it along w/some other books to the daughter of a friend who became very interested in Welsh culture when she found out her ancestry was Welsh.

Anyway, my heritage is also Welsh. Michael Raven recorded a collection of tunes entitled 'Welsh Guitar' which is very, very good. Blodau'r Grug is a collection of Welsh dance tunes which may or may not be out of print.

If I turn up some stuff maybe I can arrange to copy some of the recordings to CD format and send them to you. Meanwhile, good on ya! for your interest in Wales...it's an endlessly facinating country.

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Peace
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 11:02 AM

Well then, diolch yn fawr to all of you.

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Splott Man
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:45 AM

"Diolch yn fawr"

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Peace
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:18 AM

"I also don't find it (too) embarrassing that you think I'm a "he". You're in good company: Joe Offer for example. "Sion" is male; "Sian" is female."

OUCH. I do apologize, Sian. Another Mudcatter sent me a heads up on that and was kind enough to explain the etymology. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but nothin' beats plain old stupidity to help a guy put his foot in it.

I still think you are erudite--I checked that word and it's a good thing. Please excuse me. I am going to look for sack cloth and ashes.

And for the rest of you: You are real gems. I know in my own way I love the country I live in, warts and all. I could talk about it for hours: geography, cities, towns, regions, rivers, mountain ranges, music, government, but most of all it's the people I have come to love very deeply. Reading what the various posters have said here reminds me that pride is not relegated to Canadians alone. I am very happy that so many of you have taken the time to help educate me.

So, how's a guy say 'thank you' in Welsh?

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:16 AM

Try some of the books by the very respected and much missed Alexander Cordell who wrote about the industrialisation of the South Wales valleys.....wonderfully moving history.
For a starter try his book Song Of The Earth.
Ifor

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: Buddug
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 06:58 AM

Just realised I didn't say - I live in North Wales, and my other half's first language is Welsh (I speak a fair amount, too, enough to hold my own in a conversation in the local pub)- it is very much still a living language - and they do still all sing on a Saturday night in the little village pub a mile and a half away; in Welsh, in English - last time we walked in and they were actuallysinging 'Shenandoah'... Quickly followed by old Welsh hymns, Ar Hyd y Nos, Suo Gan, you name it.

Buddug

Subject: RE: Folklore: The music of Wales
From: sian, west wales
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 05:53 AM

Thank you for that, Peace. I won't be embarrassed by your comments re: 'erudite' although I think I fall far short of that description. I DO try to make comments which add to the debate in some sort of positive way, and that's the fault of 'Catter Snuffy. He once introduced me to a new 'Catter as a 'Catter who didn't give off a lot of "static" - that is, (I think) getting caught up in too many inconsequentials). I have cursed him often for this comment; it's kept me from throwing myself headlong into some of the best bitchy-slappy-fights here. Drat, and double drat. (I'm also Welsh Canadian so the 'nice' imperative is a genetic curse.) (But I'm getting old, so I can be cantankerous too)

I also don't find it (too) embarrassing that you think I'm a "he". You're in good company: Joe Offer for example. "Sion" is male; "Sian" is female.

Now I have to think of something else more relevant to the thread ... hmm.

OK - back to books. I'm thinking you might like "The Matter of Wales Epic Views of a small country" by Jan Morris. Essayist style rather than a full history like John Davies' book. Sioned Davies has just brought out a new translation of The Mabinogion if you're still interested in it. If you go to the gwales.com sight and search on "Mabinogion" you get various things of interest.

Music-wise, a good overview of Welsh music can be had on the CD The Rough Guide to the Music of Wales

sian