BS: What's the matter with Canada?

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 02:52 PM

"What I don't understand is why Canadians are allowing this to happen"

why ... because people are content and living in a sense of false security .... unable to comprehend the ever changing world around them ... unwilling to take a stand on their own 2 feet and to take democracy into their own hands

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 01:36 PM

I agree that what Harper is doing is wrong. But I am afraid that he will get enough votes to keep doing it. What I don't understand is why Canadians are allowing this to happen. The Reform Party evolved from the manufactured gripe of Western Alienation, the current Conservatives are the result of that movement. I believe that the West, particularly Alberta sees the Liberals as an "Eastern" party rather than as a national one and the Liberals must remind people what is at stake here..Canada as a social democracy is disappearing and Canadians seem reluctant to do anything about it. Why is that ?

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 12:43 PM

Interesting comments, Hilo. There used to be a national party. It was called "the Liberals". But it's not a national party anymore. There used to be a moderate, centre, small-c conservative party also which could serve reasonably well as a national party when elected. It was called "the Progressive Conservatives". That party is gone. The present Conservative Party is a radical Reaganite neocon party that is utterly out of touch with the traditional aspirations of a majority of Canadians...but they are profiting from the fact that the majority of Canadians have no national party to vote for anymore and are splitting their vote between Liberals, NDP, Greens, and Bloc Quebecois.

I agree with your assessment of the NDP. They are out of touch.

The Conservatives know exactly what they're doing...the only trouble is, what they are doing is wrong...and they do not represent the majority of people in this country. They represent their corporate friends in Big Business.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 12:36 PM

I think that the Canadian problem is two fold. There is no truly national Party and there is no leftist Party. Both the Liberals and the NDP are centre line parties. Stephen Harper is leader of a very right wing party and, unfortunately he will probably win a majority in the next election. I see the conservatives as being the old Reform Party and it is therefore a Party with no philosophical grasp of the nation as a whole. I do think that Liberals understand Canada in a way that the oter parties do not, however, they have not been able to articulate this, especially in the west whre many see the country as a business and not as a nation. The NDP are a self righteous bunch really and don't get it at all. Sheep in sheeps clothing.
   After this election Canada will be a very different place and I, for one, will be very sorry to that happen.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: leftydee
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 11:16 AM

People are still surprized when conservatives fuck up an economy?

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: bankley
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 11:10 AM

"Some of us are good with the music, some are born to the gun
We all keep doing whatever we can, under the insurgent sun"


bullets not ballots ? sounds like Bolivia these days... trouble is the gov't has the big, smarter guns and lots of them, and lots of practice... and if there be any civil emergency that the uniforms can't handle, we have just signed an agreement ( without parliamentary debate) with the US, that allows either country to send 'forces' across the border (if requested) to assist with the 'response'.... sounds okay when we're talking about natural disasters.... but the authorities didn't really specify.... so, one call from Ottawa to Washington, and the mountain brigade from Fort Drum NY., could secure Montreal, Toronto and Ottawa within a few days.....scary thought, but it's already been thought out at the higher levels....so we'll just keep you distracted by bird poop on Dionne, the PMs warm fuzzy TV ads, and the new NHL song contest.... and by the way, how much is the Afghan mission costing us, to the closest billion please.... pass the syrup

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Peace
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 12:17 AM

The solution to it all will be guns I'm afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:53 PM

Well Q, it all seens to depend on who thinks that they will gain or lose. With this attitude the biggest loser is the electorate!
All that being said and only by degree it is a better system than in the USA. We have, at least never, had a president elected by his brother. The saddest part though is that both countries raise the flag of democracy to the world, ignoring improvements that could make it a truth! A fine example of political greed and corruption!

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:44 PM

Aha! And therein lies the problem, Sandy. The Liberals and Conservatives have no intention of honestly sharing power with the smaller parties, because it would mean giving up some of what they already have.

Self-interest on the part of those in power is what can kill the heart of any nation when it gets way out of hand.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:42 PM

Certainly not the big three.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:31 PM

""""""""" Ditto LH!
Of course the answer is proportional representation based on popular vote but who among this bunch of bastards wants to deplete their power just to be democratic? Certainly not the big two!

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:23 PM

Pretty good article. But the Liberals are not a "leftist" party, they are a "center" party...one that is badly disorganized at the present time and losing its strength to 3 different smaller parties...the NDP, the Greens, and the Bloc Quebecois. The NDP and the Greens could be described as somewhat "leftist".

The ONLY truly "rightist" party in Canada is the Conservatives under Harper and their base of support in the populace is, at best, only about 40%, I would think.

40% can win a majority government, though, if the other 60% get split between 3 different parties! Therein lies the problem.

The part of the article that summed it up best was this:

"The Conservatives may not represent the views of most Canadians, but with four parties fighting for the left-wing vote, the Conservatives might win simply by sliding up the middle."

That is Harper's objective. If he achieves it, things will get considerably worse in Canada, because the government will have been hijacked by a minority viewpoint, and not with good results.

The Liberals used to effectively represent the broad centre of Canadian viewpoints. They lost cohesion due to their own internal mismanagement, their sense of entitlement, and their general arrogance, and the fox is now in the henhouse.

This Conservative fox does not represent the will or wishes of the majority of Canadians, but if the Conservatives get the majority government they are seeking, then the will and wishes of the majority of Canadians won't count for jack shit, because a majority government IS, in effect, a limited dictatorship (until the next election).

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:03 PM

Canada has a three party system. The Bloc Quebecois keeping the system civil.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:26 PM

The most amusing thing I saw in the article was the Liberals being described as "leftists".

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:57 PM

Well Lester Pearson learned how to function back in the 60's and with Tommy Douglas holding the balance of power we had perhaps the best government in Canada's history. It gave us medicare and a national pension plan that would be the envy of the world. Harper though is too domineering to consider such diplomacy and instead tries to bully his opponents. If he ever gains uncontrolled power he may try to dismantle or privatize both.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:26 PM

"Italians and Israelis may have learned how to function under minority governments, but Canadians are still working on it"

?

Minority government is not at all new to Canada.

But, if you lead one, you can't function for ever as if you have a majority.

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 09:16 PM

Canada's system of government was historially based on a two party system. It was a system that allowed a political party to gain power and overrule objection from the other party. At some point they would suffer a defeat in the polls and the second party would rule as did the other one. Patronage and corruption was what counted without much objection as the second pig waited its turn at the trough.
Now there are several parties but the older two have never learned to share power with them. The Parliament no longer is where government business is carried out because governments want to operate in secrecy. Elected members are only trained seals who must comply with every wish and whim of their leader or they are disciplined, but minority governments keep the power within Parliament and keep bastards like Harper in check. Even with a so called majority of members in Parliament the party may have much less that a majority of the popular vote. In that way we can end up with an elected dictatorship and that is Harper's goal. There is danger that he could get his wish even though most of the electorate would sooner see him in Hell than in Ottawa!

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 08:57 PM

ok ... all joking aside.

Harper was up in Fredricton N.B. on the weekend campaigning for the upcoming Canadian Federal election.

Take a look at this foto. You would never see this in the U.S. of A. ... notice there are no Secret Service guys all around him. I was told by the person who took this foto there were a few RCMP guys around (of course), but even they were talking and joking with the people on the street.

Harper in the street

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 08:07 PM

Who is this Harper guy anyway ???

:)


biLL

Subject: BS: What's the matter with Canada?
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:54 PM

A scathing article from Slate.

I hope y'all can do something about Harper.