PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:38 PM

Couldn't have said it better Nutty.

We can do without people like him in the folk world.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: nutty
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:44 PM

Save your sympathy for the poor people who have been fighting to get their money back.

The organiser is an established business man who (up till now) has not treated his 'customers' with the respect they deserved after trying to support his enterprise.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:27 PM

Funny, I'm sure I posted a very mild comment wondering whether, for all we knew, we should be haveing sympathy for an organiser who tried his best but now has his business and maybe house on the line.

Just a stray thought.

Did I get modded or was there a glitsch in the ether?

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: nutty
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 12:20 PM

Once again we can all thank Max for providing (at no cost to anyone) this wonderful Forum which enables everyone to get together.

When you get your refunds you could 'click on the fish' and send a small thankyou.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Sarah Derry
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:43 AM

Sorry!
I clicked before I popped my message on. Just to let you know I have just come off phone to a pleasant lady at the Events Office. She said commencing from last week they're saying to people it will be 6-8 weeks for refunds to be made and definitely before Christmas - although I got the impression this may not be in alphabetical order?. She seemed keen to help and took my name and was apologetic so yet again, I'll take their word for it and wait (with hopefully not mis-placed) confidence!
But this is the last time, then I'll be following Barbara's example. I did mention this forum and they knew all about it! Thanks for all who organised the newspaper article/sent recorded mail.

Sarah

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Sarah Derry
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:30 AM

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Besty at work
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:06 AM

That's very good news Villan , isn't St.Jude the patron St. of lost causes.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 08:01 AM

Thats good news Jude
Les

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 06:23 AM

Hi
I got a phone message from the main man last night apologising for the delay & promising me my refund next week.
I've got my fingers crossed!
Jude

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Folkiedave
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 06:21 AM

Sorry I meant to say basically I think it is statute of limitations as far as time is concerned i.e. six years. It begins once you are aware of the problem.

And I am not a solicitor - I do not purport to give legal advice.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Folkiedave
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 06:19 AM

Would credit card payments protect you in this context (within a month of the festival)? I don't know.

If it does apply then it is only for sums over £100.00

Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that the lender of money for a purchase is jointly responsible with the seller for the purchaser getting the goods or service purchased, or receiving a full refund if they do not receive the goods or service. What this means in practice is that if you paid more than £100.00 by a UK issued personal credit card (but not a debit or charge card), then you can claim ALL the money you paid (irrespective of how you paid it) provided that the maximum contrcat value does not exceed £30,000, back from the card company or lender if you do not get what you bought.

However be prepared for the card company to resist. Well there's a surprise!!

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Captain Sensible
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 06:10 AM

If the business has shelled-out money they cannot recoup, they indeed have cashflow problems, and those that threaten will be dealt with first. Punters, by and large, will be slower than businesses to respond - the Folk world is a trusting place until bitten.

Whatever Pickering Festival do, it will be event-driven because they probably don't have cash left over from reciepts, and were probably banking on late sales anyway.

Whether you like the way they are doing it, or not, the only sensible way to deal with it is to understand their position, and act. Which in this context is to give them a big motivational push. Like publicity, like the law. And do it before there is literally no money to be got, law or no law you can't get it if they declare bankrupcy. Except maybe pence in the pound.

Would credit card payments protect you in this context (within a month of the festival)? I don't know.

And was this the first year of the festival? If it was, caveat emptor.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Barbara Hoyle
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 05:48 AM

Beany,
I don't understand the logic either;as with any telephone contact made with the office,the story changes daily.
I had in fact posted the second recorded delivery letter, which stated that legal action was imminent,immediately prior to receiving my refund.
Congratulations on your efforts re the Malton and Pickering Mercury.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Beany
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 04:57 AM

Barbara, I am delighted that you have received your refund. However they cannot be doing this in alphabetical order as they originally stated that they would as our surname is before yours! I wonder if its because you had sent the recorded delivery letter and threatened another one?
It was me who contacted the Malton and Pickering Mercury and spoke at length to Sheila, a reporter there. I have just read the article - whooppee. Lets hope that this is the start of the end to this sad state of affairs. Fingers crossed for my refund.
Beany

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Barbara Hoyle
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 01:40 AM

JR,
The phone call from Simon Boak to theleveller appears to have been made after the publication of the article, and after the Events Office had been contacted by the newspaper re the matter.
I suspect that you are not one of the people who has spent countless fruitless hours merely trying to elicit any response from the Evnts Office, let alone an honest one.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: theleveller
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 03:29 PM

Sod it. Keep losing my cookies on this computer. That was me.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 03:28 PM

"I can imagine Pickering have a cash flow problem and if the business ethic is not of the best order you can imagine there is a tactic in play. Quieten the loudest and those wot don't shout don't want."

Don't understand what you mean by that. I've nothing against businesses organising festivals on a proit-making basis, as long as they're good festivals that are value for money which, to be fair, is what Pickering seemed to be at the time. Let's face it there are some unbelievably crap festivals about run by rank amateurs who haven't the least idea what they're doing and some run for profit that are equally crap.

If you don't think money should be an issue, then you can't believe that there should be professional folk performers. Fair enough - I can see the argument for that but, in the end, you pays yer money (or not) etc etc.

Personally, I'm going to wait and see what happens.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,JR
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 01:42 PM

Let's be fair here. Refunds had started PRIOR to the article being published.

There is a very good chance that this is a business that has been doing it's best in very difficult circumstances.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Barbara Hoyle
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 01:22 PM

I wholeheartedly agree re the warning Mr Red and would advise anyone considering booking for next year's proposed Pickering Folk Festival to be extremely wary.
It seems a strange coincidence that Simon Boak's phone call to theleveller was apparently made after an article appeared in the Malton and Pickering Mercury. A case of too little,too late as far as I am concerned.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 01:13 PM

Folkie Dave don't be so provocative. You of all people.

Folk is about people. Introduce money and there is risk. Bigger the money, bigger the risk. Bigger the egos. How did all these big festivals start? Lots of enthusiasts and just a pub to help with the tent. A lot of DIY. Simple, modest and FOLK. When money is (was) tight thats what FOLK do.

And Knowing Clive Field at Saul as I do - and knowing their purpose - they handled it as you would hope. Not all ticket holders at Saul bothered to apply for a refund, the rule there was to announce a deadline so that they could get their books audited. A lot of performers waved their rights in contract and got booked the next year.
I can imagine Pickering have a cash flow problem and if the business ethic is not of the best order you can imagine there is a tactic in play. Quieten the loudest and those wot don't shout don't want.

Let this be a warning for next year.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: theleveller
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 06:45 AM

Simon Boakes has just called me and explained the situation at length. He says that the refunds will now be made as quickly as possible (in the next few days). He apologised profusely for the situation, which arose from some inexperienced people in the Events Office who weren't properly briefed on the situation giving false information about how quickly it was possible to make refunds.

He is anxious to run a festival but doesn't want to clash with others, so he asked my advice on when would be the best time to hold the rescheduled event. (The suggestion of moving it to later in June so it didn't clash with Ryedale was made - what's the opinion?)

I have to say that I felt he was genuine, both in his explanation and his desire to run a successful folk festival that would appeal to as many people as possible. He suggested that, in the future, monies paid would be held by someone independent of the organisers so that people could be certain it was in safe hands.

Let's see if we receive the refunds as promised and take it from there.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: theleveller
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 06:16 AM

Nothing new there, then. It seems that threats of legal action are the only way to get them to do something.

In the meantime, tickets for Ryedale are now on sale. I'll be ordering mine today - at least I know they can be relied on.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,JR
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 05:35 AM

http://www.maltonmercury.co.uk/news/Folk-fans39-fury-over-ticket.4616990.jp

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 04:12 AM

A return to "Folk" Festivals may be the answer.

I am not sure what the difference is!! Care to explain?

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Barbara Hoyle
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 04:06 AM

Saul refunded without problems after 2007 and I was happy to make a donation of part of my money to help offset the inevitable costs of the cancellation.No doubt many others did the same.
The way Pickering dealt with the situation bears no resemblance to the way Saul treated their customers. People were kept well informed at every stage of the process, something which has been sadly lacking in Pickering's case.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 03:53 AM

There is going to be more of this kind of problem in years to come.

Saul has given up for 2009, after 2007 floods and a near problem this year, and Shrewsbury Showground was flooded three weeks after the festival, a near miss. Expectations that floods don't happen in summer is way out of date. Given the economic climate as well, a lot of people will decide at the last minute and that is a stress that may cause organisers to cancel.

Here we are discussing entertainment, business, employment, that calls itself Folk. A return to "Folk" Festivals may be the answer.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Barbara Hoyle
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 02:37 AM

A friend was informed on the telephone yesterday that her date for a refund of £150 was November 10th. She objected to waiting until then and now awaits further developments.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 04:03 PM

With a little luck no one will actually loose their money, just be deprived of it for a while!!

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Michelle
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 02:46 PM

As sad as it is that we're all waiting for our money, I'm glad to have found this forum and to know I'm not the only one waiting. Sounds like we've all tried the same things to get our refunds; I was also fobbed off on the phone (once I'd eventually got through) and no response to my emails.
Not sure what to do next really. Might just be patient for a little while longer, after all Barbara got her money back. Think I will contact the guy at the Herald & Gazette. I hope nobody else loses their money.

Thanks

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 02:23 PM

Well thats excellent news Barbara

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Barbara Hoyle
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 01:33 PM

I have received my refund. A postal order for the appropriate amount arrived today. May I encourage those of you still trying to persevere and thank you to anyone who offered advice.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Barbara Hoyle
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 06:36 AM

Apologies - just realised that I'm mistaken re deletion - think I need a lie down in a darkened room.
Thanks Villan,I'll try to access the info but the machine I'm currently using doesn't allow me to do so.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Barbara Hoyle
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 06:34 AM

Please explain why my message posted minutes ago has been deleted - I don't understand.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 06:31 AM

You might be interested in looking at this

http://www.new.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=44286860585&topic=5513&ref=mf

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Barbara Hoyle
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 06:19 AM

Good luck emm lou,
       I did the same 14 days ago and have had no response whatsoever to my letter. I now intend to send a second letter and will no doubt have to resort to the small claims court: thank you everyone for your advice re this.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Darowyn
Date: 21 Oct 08 - 03:23 AM

I lived on the Yorkshire Coast for many years, and I remember Simon Boak's name appearing on promo posters over twenty years ago. He has been around for a long time, mostly promoting Country Shows, Traction Engine Rallies etc.
I have vague memories of dealing with him with no problems.
Unless his business has collapsed drastically this summer, and that is possible, I would say that you should not give up hope.
It will be strongly in Mr Boak's interest to maintain his good name in the area.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Tootler
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 05:50 PM

The small claims court does work.

My daughter and her friend successfully sued their former landlord after he refused to return their deposit on their flat when they left.

They were awarded the full amount (£1000) less £50 for some rewiring that had been done. I suspect the judge only gave the landlord that to avoid him appealing.

They actually got their money as well. I think that was partly because the money was held by the estate agents that had acted for the landlord and they felt he had cheated them.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 03:17 PM

You can do the Small Claims Court on-line nowadays.

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/onlineservices/mcol/index.htm

I succesfully sued Carphone Warehouse over a faulty telephone they refused to replace.

You save £5.00 (£25.00 instead of £30.00) but otherwise I thought it was easy to do and user friendly as they say.

The problem is that if you win you need to enforce it and it may be spending good money chasing bad.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 02:55 PM

Damn. That as me.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 02:54 PM

Any action would have to be through the Small Claims Court. I'm considering doing this myself if we don't get our refunds soon.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,emm lou
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 02:00 PM

Hi all - after i posted on the original thread i decided to write a letter of complaint and demanding our refund to Simon Boak and sent it via recorded delivery so he should have received this today. I'm going to call the reporter about this too as I think the more people that do the better. If anyone has any advice on any legal action we can take then please help!
It may also be worth contacting Folk Roots magazine about this.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 12:23 PM

Chris
At the moment, their is no evidence that fraud is involved. What is a fact, is that it would seem lots of people who paid for their tickets, haven't had it back yet.
Unless of course you have some damning evidence that we are not privy to.
Les

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 12:22 PM

If he is competent as an organizer (and I don't have he foggiest idea whether he is) he will have had insurance against being weathered out. So canceling because of weather is no excuse for not returning deposits.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Barbara Hoyle
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 12:14 PM

Chris,
    I've just tried to email you but the message has been bounced back.We know that the main organiser is Simon Boak and that contact details are on The Events Office website: www.theeventsoffice.co.uk.
    Unfortunately, emails and letters are ignored and should you manage to make contact via the telephone,you will be subjected to evasion and false claims as to when the money will be refunded.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,chris at electraglade
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 10:41 AM

Hello
I'm also owed money from Pickering Festival, and am organising some press and publicity to ensure that this apparant fraud is investigated and exposed.
Any info, please contact
chris
[e-mail]

I have some contact with people who know one of the organisers (who also organised a Celtic Festival in Whitby the other year) so they shouldn't be too difficult to trace.

cheers

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 02:28 AM

He would be very pleased to hear from you Barbara.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Barbara Hoyle
Date: 20 Oct 08 - 02:02 AM

I have been away for the weekend so haven't seen this thread until now.I intend to try to contact David Jeffells later today.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 11:03 AM

I `ad that Simon Boak with a sweat on in my cab the other day.
`e said, "Can you get me to Heathrow, sharpish like?"
I said, "Yeah, what`s all the rush then. You late for your plane?"
`e said, "Nah, it`s all them on that Mudcat. They reckon `cos my planning clashed with other festivals I took the dosh and did a runner."
I said, " Did ya?"
`e said, "Nah. I just strolled out of the place!!"

Whaddam I like??

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 10:26 AM

Oops, above guest was me.

Subject: RE: PickeringFolkFestival Are you owed money
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 08:56 AM

That sounds great Jude
Les

Guest - that sounds very positive.

It would be good to know about any articles that get in the press.