BS: A snip at £200? (sterilizing addicts)

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200? (sterilizing addicts)
From: Amergin
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 08:14 PM

They should do something like this for law students...promise to pay for their education if they get sterilised first....it would be a vast improvement.

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200? (sterilizing addicts)
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 08:12 PM

Almost all addicts with whom I have conversed, were suffering from psychiatric problems before starting on drugs.

I have heard many horror stories. A large percentage are articulate and intelligent, most are resigned to an early death, some just cant wait.

Drug addicition is much more widespread than the general realise, it is the biggest social problem at the present time and sometime soon it will have to be addressed.

It has parallels with the homosexual hiv epidemic, in that we are prepared to watch them die quietly, rather than take the appropriate action.......which is not sterilisation.

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200? (sterilizing addicts)
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 06:48 PM

Good question. We have to get back to "we" instead of "I".

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200? (sterilizing addicts)
From: bubblyrat
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 06:46 PM

Well,somebody has to be "judge & jury", otherwise we'll just have anarchy . We can't go on & on feeling sorry for addicts,or blaming ourselves,or single-parent families,or high unemployment, or lack of affordable housing,or because "there's nothing to DO around here", or the Conservatives,or motorway noise, or overcrowding,or petrol prices, or the 1001 other excuses these whingeing,moaning malcontents manage to come up with !! Most of us manage to cope with all that,and more,without resorting to cocaine or heroin etc ----why the hell can't they ???

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200? (sterilizing addicts)
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 06:24 PM

Why not just run them in front of x-ray machines, like the Nazis did? Who are these people to take on to themselves the duties of judge and jury? And does the same offer hold for males?

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 12:42 PM

I bet the "charity" manager is a "christian" too.

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200?
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 12:28 PM

For more information about Poject Prevention, also known as C.R.A.C.K. its history and its founder Barbara Harris, whose total disregard for the women it targets is evidenced in her statement:

"We don't allow dogs to breed. We spay them. We neuter them. We try to keep them from having unwanted puppies, and yet these women are literally having litters of children."

see this lengthy but informative article in the Journal of Law in Society

'Much of what C.R.A.C.K. says about its clients is untrue or unsupported. Instead of research, legitimate data and honest inquiries, C.R.A.C.K. too often presents anecdotes, fasle information and horrific images of bad women who not only do not deserve to have children but do not deserve any form of compassion or support'
i.e. a 'dehumanizing discourse'

Their flyer
"Don't let a pregnancy ruin your drug habit" is consistent with an organization that has no concern whatsoever with the welfare of mothers
In fact the organization only promotes birth control methods that do not prevent HIV or sexually transmitted diseases and 'may pose significant health risks compared to other methods'

Barbara Harris's own story involves a woman who she claims had eight children and is the centrepiece of her public presentations
Supporters of her programme assert that 'the typical drug user has seven children' so for the cost of $200 "Countless births are avoided"

However strudies have shown this to be a fallacy, low income women in America with a publicly identified drug problem had an average of 2-3 children

The media generated image of the 'typical' female addict as probably young, poor, black, urban, on welfare the mother of many children and addicted to crack moreover did not match the more likely 30 something. divorced high school graduate on public assistance, the mother of two or three children and addicted to alcohol and one other drug

Preventing harm to children or preventing some women from having children?

read the article and decide.....

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200?
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:40 AM

This is apparently a one-person "charity", run by a person who has more dollars than sense (as the saying goes in the US). Looking at their/her website, it seems that she adopted a couple of crack babies a number of years ago who turned out to have major medical problems due to fetal addiction (and who are now doing well). Information there focuses on the theses (I won't go so far as to call them facts) that addicted mothers often get pregnant accidentally or to increase their welfare payments. Justifiably or not, it seems that they/she has written off the mothers as a lost cause and has turned to trying to reduce the number of addicted children born in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200?
From: gnu
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:36 AM

Jack... hahahahaaa!

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 10:50 AM

Why don't they cut the bullshit and simply offer these junkies a hit in return for the snip? I mean that *is* what they're doing after all.

And as well as the junkies, why not use the same 'incentive' for other people desperate for a few bob?
Perhaps they should be offering people who've got themselves into wadges of debt sterilisation in return for a couple of mortgage payments?

I mean after all the recklessness of taking out massive loans for more stuff than you really need, is a bit like gambling and drug taking isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200?
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 09:10 AM

It is probably accurate to conclude that there may be a genetic predisposition to addiction and risk-taking behaviours but drug addiction is probably far more environmental in nature

However, unlike genetic traits drug addiction, with the right intervention in addicts' lives is something which need not be a permanent state Many people kick their drug habit Addaction campaigns that people can make positive changes with the right support

To pay addicts to be sterilised must only reinforce feelings of worthlessness and low self-esteem and just demonstrate that as a society we have given up hope for those already on its fringes as well as providing an additional income for their suppliers

Of course we should be seeking to minimise the number of babies born to addicted mothers
As the founder of Project Prevention argues, an addicted baby goes through excruciating pain and requires considerable medical attention as they go through withdrawal

In the UK however, contraceptive advice is part of drug treatment work . Women who use drugs can access all types of contraception free on the NHS including a number of long term options.
Maybe an attempt to decriminalize users would result in greater trust and use of medical staff etc?

A British Medical Journal article by a research officer from the Family Planning Information Service states that 'counselling is particularly important in the case of voluntary sterilization'
Certainly it would be expected that the person made a truly informed decision and not as the result of what could be considered a financial incentive or even a 'bribe'

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200?
From: Stu
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 07:17 AM

Are they going to run one for Royals and politicians?

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200?
From: KHNic
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 07:04 AM

The problem with such programs is that they operate a system of value judgements. This project might start with a particular group of people such as drug addicts but denying them the right to have children is opening the door to saying "I disagree with your lifestyle, therefore you should not breed". A deeply disturbing prospect.

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200?
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 07:02 AM

Oh, Brave New World that has such people in it.

Subject: RE: BS: A snip at £200?
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 06:45 AM

Sounds like just the sort of scheme that would appeal to our cash strapped govt.

Another peek into the future perhaps?

Assisted and subsidised suicide anyone?

Subject: BS: A snip at £200?
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 06:20 AM

Back in April the media in the UK were reporting
'Charity that sterilises addicts to come to UK'

"Drug addiction experts have reacted with horror at the revelation that a controversial American charity worker who pays addicts to be sterilised is setting up a franchise in Britain.
Project Prevention, which operates out of North Carolina, has stopped more than 3,500 drink and drug addicts from having children by paying them up to £200 to seek long term or permanent forms of contraception such as an IUD implant or full sterilisation.
Once the addicts prove that an operation has been carried out they are awarded a cash sum which, even the charity admits, usually goes towards feeding their habits."

The Independent April 10

The following month a mother or two children claimed she was approached near a health centre in Glasgow while with her nine year old son by three women who offered her £200 if she agreed to be sterilised
The woman stated she was not a drug addict although there were many in that area and reported the incident to the police
A Strathclyde Police spokesman said they believed it had been 'an isolated incident' but advised anyone similarly approached to contact their local police station.

The news today reports that the first person in the UK to accept the cash is drug addict "John" from Leicester.