Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5

Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5
From: Richie
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 11:44 PM

Hi,

This Finnish version (no name given) vaguely reinforces the murder motive from the last post (adultery). It was collected in Kalvola, South Tavastland, Finland from Adolfine Montin, aged thirty-four, by Professor Kaarle Krohn about 1884.

1. Mistas tulet, kustas tulet,
Poikani poloinen?
2. Meren tannalta.
3. [missing]
4. Hevostani uittamasta.
5. Mista miekkas on vereen tullut?
6. Hevonen potkasi.
7. Misti takkis on saveen tullut?
8. Hevonen huiskasi hdnndlldnsi.
9. Miksi han naistani nauratteli ?
10. Menen muille maille vierahille.
11. Mihinkns jatat vaimosi nuoren?
12. Mieron tietzi kulkemahan.

* * * *

1. Whence do you come,
My wretched son?
2. From the seashore.
3. [missing]
4. From swimming my horse.
5. Why is your sword wet?
6. The horse stamped.
7. Why is your coat bespattered with clay?
8. The horse swished its tail
9. Why did he seduce your wife?
10. I shall go to foreign lands.
11. What do you leave your wife?
12. She may go begging.

* * * *

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5
From: Richie
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 09:30 PM

Hi,

The following version from Finland gives a motive. It's from E. Lonnrot Kanteletar elikka suomen kasan aanhoja lauluja ja virsia ("Suomalaisen kirjallisuuden seuran toimituksia" III. [Helsinki 1906]) x-xi No. 4. I give only the opening stanza in Finnish with the refrains. The translation modified from Archer Taylor follows (20 stanzas):

"Velisurmaaja."

1. Mistis tulet, kustas tulet,
Poikani iloinen?
Meren rannalta, meren rannalta,
Aitini kultainen.

* * * *

"From where do you come, my merry son?"
From the seashore, my dear mother [var. maiden].

"What have you done there?"
"I have watered my horse."

Why is your back spotted with clay?
The horse brushed me with its tail.

Why is your foot bloody?
The korse kicked me with its iron [shoes].

Why is your sword bloody?
I stabbed my brother.

Why did you stab your brother?
Because he put my wife to shame.

What will you do now?
Hide myself and flee.

Where do you leave you, father
[var. refrain; Oh, where indeed]- He may knit nets [var. go begging].

Where do you leave your mother?
She may spin at the spinning wheel [var. go begging].

Where do you leave your young wife?
She may look for men [var. bewail me].

Where do you-leave your young son?
He may suffer in school [var. suffer the rod and visit the school].

Where do you leave your young daughter?
She may watch the cattle.

When will you come home?
[Var. refrain "Oh, when indeed?] When the raven becomes white.

When will the raven become white?
When the goose becomes black.

When will the goose become black?
When the stone rolls on the water.

when will the stone roll on the water?
when the feather sinks to the bottom.

When will the feather sink to the bottom?
When the sun shines at midnight.

When will the sun shine at midnight?
When the moon burns with burning heat.

when will the moon buin with burning heat?
when the stars dance in heaven.

"When will the stars dance in heaven?"
"When all come to judgment."

* * * *

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5
From: Richie
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 08:55 PM

Hi,

Here's a Swedish broadside for you Steve from 1794. This is parody of Sven i Rosengard. This text is printed from Fyra Stycken Nya Och Lustiga Wisor (Gotheborg: tryckt hos Samuel Norberg 1794). I did a brief but wanting transcription. Anyone?

1 Huru dr du blefwen gifter, du Daniel ungerswan?
Det war som det kunde a ja jamen,
Det war som det kunde a ja jamen.

2 Hwar ligger da din unga Brud?
I hoga loft pia bolstrar bla.

3 Hwar ligger du da sjelfwer?
I laden uppi ho och stra.

4 Hwad ater da din unga Brud?
Aggemat pi silfwerfat.

5 Hwad dter du di sjelfwer?
Sille-rump och hafrestump.

6 Hwad dricker di din unga Brud?
Ohl och mjod och bista win.

7 Hwad dricker di du sjelfwer?
Drickat ar surt och warre a lut.

8 Hwem dantsar med din unga Brud?
Alla wira Pristasoner.

9 Med hwem dantsar du di sjelfwer?
Med Karringer och hixor.

* * * *

1. When are you getting married, Daniel Ungerswan?
The war it could be yes, yes,
The war it could be yes, yes.

2 How is your young bride?
On high ceilings on soft mattress.

3 What are you doing here?
In the barn up and down.

4 What do you give your young bride?
Aggemat pa silfwer barrel.

5 How you are living in the soul
Silly-rump and hafrestump.

6 What are you drinking with your young bride?
Oh and mead and good wine.

7 What do you drink to yourself?
Drunk and cheeky.

8 How is dancing with your young bride?
All our performance.

9 With whom do you dare yourself?
With Karringer and witch.

* * * *

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5
From: Richie
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 03:57 PM

Hi Steve,


In general a motive for the murder in the Scandinavian versions is lacking. The Swedish versions do not mention a sword instead the blood is on the clothes.

The following Finnish version is given from H. R. von Schroter's 1819 book, "Finnische Runen, Finnisch und deutsch." It was reprinted with insignificant changes in the second edition (ed. G. H. von Schroter [Stuttgart, 1834) then translated into Swedish in Arwidsson's "Svenska Fornsanger" (Stockholm, 1837). The text and translation are modified from Archer Taylor- note that a Finnish stanza is missing in Taylor's book, I haven't tried to figure out where the mistake occurred but I have a different English translation which is also 14 stanzas.

"Der blutige Sohn"

1 Mistas tulet? mistas tulet?
Minun Pojkain iloinen.
Meren rannalt', meren rannalt',
Muori kuitasein.

2 Mita sielta tekemasta?
Hewostani juottamasta.

3 Missas jakkuis saween teit?
Hewoinen tallais, hewoinen tallais.

4 Missas miekkais wereen teit?
Tapoin ainoan weljeni.

5 Minnekkas siitten ite jouwutl
Muille maille wierahille.

6 Minnekkis wanhan isdis heitat?
Kaykaan metsassa, hakatkaan halkoja,
Elkoon ikinaan minua toiwokoo.

7 Mihinkis wanhan Muoriis heitat?
Istukaan nurkassa, watwokoon tappuroita,
Elkdon ikanaan minua toiwokoo.

8 Mihinkas nuoren pojkais heitat?
Knykndn koulua, karsikaan wihtoja.

9 Minnekkis sen nuoren piikais heitat?
Kaykaan metsassa, syotaan marjoja,
Elkoon ikinddn mina toiwokoo.

10 Millonkas sielta kotian tulet?
Silloin kuin paiwa pohjasta paistaa.

11 Millonkas paiwa pohiasta paistaa?
Silloin kuin kiwi wein paalla pyorii.

12 Millonkas kiwi wein paalla pyorii?
Silloin kuin hoyhen pohjaan painuu.

13 Millonkas hoyhen pohjaan painuu?
Silloin kuin kaikki Tuomiolle tuloo.

* * * *

"The Bloody Son"

1. "Where did you come? Where do you come,
My happy son."
"From the seashore, from the seashore,
My golden (beloved) mother."

2. What did you do there?
I watered the horses.

3. Why is your jacket stained with dirt?
The horses kicked.

4. "How did youe sword get so bloody?"
I killed my only brother.

5. Where will you go now?
Far into foreign countries.

6. Where will you leave your old father?
May he go to the forest and cut wood there;
May he never wish to see me again

7. Where will you leave your old mother?
May she heckle flax,
May she wish never to see me again.

8 Where will you leave your young wife?
Let her go about adorned and take another.

9. Where will you leave your young son?
May he go to school and suffer rods there,

10. Where will you leave your young daughter?
Let her go to the forest to to eat berries
May she wish never to see me again.

11. When will you come home again?
When the sun rises in the north

12. When will the sun rise in the north?
When stones dance on water.

13. When will stones dance on water?
When feathers sink to the bottom.

14 When will feathers sink to the bottom?
When all come to judgement."

Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5
From: Richie
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 02:34 PM

Hi,

There are four Swedish versions mentioned by Child-- this is Child's Swedish B, which dates back to the early 1800s at least. It's taken from Svenska Folkvisor by E. G. Geijer and A. A. Afzelius (Stockholm 1880) I 288, No. 54, I. From Varmland listed by E. G. Geijer dated 1814 (Jonsson I, p. 420). Corrections welcome.

"Sven i Rosengard"

1 "Hvar har du varit se lange,
Du Sven i rosengard?"
"Jag har varit i stallet,
Kara moder var,
I vinten mig sent, men jag kommer aldrig!"

2 "Hvarfor din klader si blodig?"
"Hvita folan spjernte mig!"

3 Hvartfor ar din skjorta si blodig?
Jag har mordat broder min.

4 Hvart skall du di ta' vagen?
Jag skall rymma af landet.

5 Nar kommer du tillbaka?
Nar korpen han hvitnar

6 Och när hwitnar korpen,
Du Sven i Rosengärd?
Nar grästen han flyter,
Kara moder war!
I wanten mig sent, Men jag kommer alldrig!
* * * *

1 "Where have you been so long,
Sven in Rosengard?"
"I have been to the stable,
My mother dear,
I will come late or I will come never!"

2 Why are your clothes so bloody?
The white foal (colt) spilled me!

3 Why is your shirt so bloody?
I have murdered my brother.

4 What are you going to do?
I'll flee from this country.

5 When will you come back?
When the raven turns white.

6 And when will the raven turn white,
Sven in Rosegard?
"When the granite floats,
My mother dear!
I was expecting to come late but I will never come!"

Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 02:07 PM

Interesting slant on this. There is much more of the 'impossibilities' theme in these variants, but it's easy to see where in some British versions the 'sun and the moon meeting in the sky' come from. I think 'The Cruel Brother' 'Son David' and 'Lucy Wan' are all closely related and all derive from Scandinavian versions. 'Lucy Wan' I think, (only a hunch, I can't prove it) is a fairly recent development of the theme, probably 18th century.

Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5
From: Richie
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 01:14 PM

Hi,

Here's Grundtvig B and C. Corrections welcome for my quick translations:

B. (Fra Fyn. Skattegraveren II (1884) Stykke 459; optegnet af Gaardejer Lars Frederiksen i Ryslinge efter hans Moder; hun kunde ikke huske, om der havde været flere Vers.)

1."Hvornaar mon jeg dig vente?
Svend i Rosenslund!"
Naar Stenene de flyder,
min hjærtens-kære Mor!"

2. „Hvomaar saa flyder Stenene?"
„Naar Fjerene de synker."

3. „Hvornaar saa synker Fjerene?"
^Naar alle Piger bliver giftede."

4. „Hvornaar bliver alle Piger giftede?
Svend i Rosenslund!"
„Naar Solen den staar norden op,
min hjærtens-kære Mor!"

B. (From Funen. The Collection II (1884) Piece 459; Written down by Gaardejer Lars Frederiksen in Ryslinge after his mother; she could not remember if there had been more verses.)

1. "When will you return?
Svend in the rose land!"
"When the stones they float,
My dear dear mother! "

2. "When do the stones float?"
"When the birds are sinking."

3. "When do the feathers sink?"
"When all girls get married."

4. "When will all girls get married?
Svend in rose land!"
"When the sun it rises north,
My dear dear mother!"

* * * *

C. (Fra Telemarken. Optegnet af S. Bugge efter Targjei Kosi i Vraadal, hun havde lært Visen af Nils Polmann, en Kaptajnssøn i Flaabygd.)

1. "Hor hev du vori saa lengje?
I Svenn i Rosensgaar!"
I enge hos drenge,
kjær moder vaar;
du venter mig sent eller aldrig!"


2. "Kvi er dit bryst saa blodigt?
"Folen meg trødde."

3. »Kvi er dit sverd saa blodigt?'
"Jeg har dræbt min broder."

4. „Kvi rider du af veien?"
„Jeg vil rømme af landet."

5. „Naar kommer du tilbage?"
„Naar stenene flyle."

6. „Naar fly ter stenen?"
„Naar fjærene søkke."

7. „Naar søkker fjæri?"
„Naar ravnen den kvitnar."

8. „Naar kvitnar ravnen?
I Svenn i Rosensgaar!"
„Det sker dog aldrig,
kjær moder vaar;
du venter mig sent eller aldrig!"


C. (From Telemark. Recorded by S. Bugge after Targjei Kosi in Vrådal, she had learned the ballad from Nils Polmann, a Captain's son in Flaabygd.)

1. "Where did you stay so long?
Svenn of the rose garden!"
"In the company of my brother,
My dear mother
You'll wait for me late or never!"

2. "Why is your chest so bloody?
"My foolish deed."

3. "Why is your sword so bloody?"
"I've killed my brother."

4. "Why are you driving from the road?"
"I want to escape from the country."

5. "When are you coming back?"
"When stones fly."

6. "When will stones fly?"
"When feathers sink."

7. "When will feather's sink?"
"When the ravens die."

8. "When will ravens die?
Svenn of the rose garden!"
"It never, never happens,
My dear mother
You'll wait for me late or never!"

Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5
From: Richie
Date: 16 Oct 18 - 12:36 PM

Hi,

Here's Grundtvig's Danish version A with my translation. Corrections welcome.

From: Danmarks gamle folkeviser by Grundtvig, Sven, 1824-1883. ed; Olrik, Axel, 1864-1917. ed; Carlsbergfondet (Copenhagen, Denmark); Samfundet til den danske literaturs fremme, publication date 1853.

SVEND I ROSENSGAARD

A. (Fra Sydsælland. Sungen af en gammel Kone i Rønnebæk ved Næstved; optegnet 1844 og 1846 af Frøken Frantziska Carlsen.)

1. "Hvor har du været saa længe?
Svend i Rosensgaard!"
»Og jeg har været i enge,
kære Moder vor!
I vente mig sent eller aldrig!"

2. "Hvor for er dit Sværd saa blodigt?"
»For jeg har dræbt min Broder."

3. „Hvor vil du dig hen vende?"
„Jeg vil af Landet rende."

4. „Hvor vil du gøre af Hustruen din?"
„Hun skal spinde for Føden sin."

5. „Hvor vil du gøre af Børnene dine?"
„Jeg vil sætte dem til Vemierne mine."

6. „Naar vil du dig hjem vende?"
„Naar alle Kvinder bliver Enke."

7. „Naar bliver alle Kvinder Enke?"
„Naar alle Mænd bliver døde."

8. „Naar bliver alle Mænd døde?"
„Naar Huse og Gaarde bliver øde."

9. „Naar bliver Huse og Gaarde øde?"
„Naar vi ser hvide Ravne."

10. "Naar ser vi hvide Ravne?'
"Naar vi ser sorte Svaner."

11. "Naar ser vi sorte Svaner?"
"Naar vi ser Fjedren synke."

12. ,Naar ser vi Fjedren synke?"
"Nåar vi ser Stenen flyde."

13. "Naar ser vi Stenen flyde?"
"Naar vi ser Havet brænde.

14. „Naar ser vi Havet brænde?
Svend i Rosensgaard!"
"Naar vi ser Verdens Ende,
kære Moder vor!

* * * *

A. (From South Zealand. Sungen of an old wife in Rønnebæk near Næstved; Recorded 1844 and 1846 by Miss Frantziska Carlsen.)

1. "Where have you been so long?
Svend in the rose garden."
"I've been to meadow's end,
O my dear mother,
I shall be home late or never!"

2. "Why is your sword so bloody?"
"Because I have killed my brother."

3. "Where do you want to turn?"
"I will flee from this country."

4. "What do you want to do with your wife?"
"She's going to spin for her food."

5. "What do you want to do your children?"
"I will place them with my friends."

6. "When will you return home?"
"When all women become widows."

7. "When will all women become widows?"
"When all men are dead."

8. "When will all men die?"
"When their farm houses are desolate."

9. "When will the farm houses be desolate?"
"When we see white ravens."

10. "When will we see white ravens?"
"When we see black swans."

11. "When do we see black swans?"
"When we see the feathers sinking."

12. "When do we see the feathers sink?"
"When we see the stones floating."

13. "When do we see the stone floating?"
"When we see the sea burning."

14. "When do we see the sea burn?
Svend in Rosensgaard!"
"When we see the world end,
O my dear mother,
I shall be home late or never."

* * * *

Richie

Subject: RE:Origins:James Madison Carpenter-Child Ballads 5
From: Richie
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 04:32 PM

Hi,

The last Carpenter version is from James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/6/5/A, pp. 09583-09584 and was at one time incorrectly listed under Lizie Wan. An alternative title "Edward, Edward" was also given.

"Edward, Edward" sung by Chloe Michaels of Boone, NC about 1940[1]. She learned most of her ballads from her father. D.C. Michaels, in the early 1900s.

"Oh what will you do when your father comes home,
My son, come tell unto me?"
"I'll take myself from home, dear mother[2],
And sail the deep blue sea."

"When are you coming home again?
My son, come tell unto me?"
"When the moon turns into blood dear mother,
And you know that will never be."

"And what will you do with your wife and child?
My son, come tell unto me."
"I'll leave them here with you, dear mother,
To keep you company."

1. a date of August 1931 is also given with the music notation. A recording under Child 200 is given.
2. The variant "I'll put my foot in a ship, dear mother" appears on a single stanza of text in the Carpenter collection which is on a page with other stanzas of text from other singers.

Subject: RE:Origins:James Madison Carpenter-Child Ballads 5
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 04:09 PM

Welcome back, Richie.
I'll have a look see what I have. I know there are versions from Kent.

Subject: RE:Origins:James Madison Carpenter-Child Ballads 5
From: Richie
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 02:51 PM

Hi,

The "Edward" titles found in Carpenter are supplied by collectors and are not local titles. Although Barker knew the title as Edward he was certainly told that was the title. The name appears to have been derived mainly from Percy's title which is likely a recreation.

The following version is from James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/11/91 and is probably from the same time period (early 1940s).

"Edward." Given by Professor Philip Furness of Guilford College, NC from Miss Alice Cummings of Greensboro NC, no date given. This version is from the same general area of Brown A (Elon College, near Greensboro).

1 "How come that blood on your shirt?
My son, pray tell unto me."
"I got it off my bright guinea dog
Who hunts the woods with me."

2. "O isn't it too bright for your bright guinea horse?
My son, pray tell unto me."
"I got it off my bright guinea horse
Who plows the woods with me."

3. "O isn't it too bright for your bright guinea horse
My son, pray tell unto me."
"I got it off my brother's shirt
Who walks the roads with me."

4. "And what were you quarreling about?
My son, pray tell unto me."
We were cutting down a hazelnut bush
That amounts to as hazelnut tree.

5. "And what will you do when this is found out?
My son, pray tell unto me."
"I'll set my foot in a handsome little boat
And sail across the sea."

6. "And what will you do with your handsome little wife?
My son, pray tell unto me."
"I'll set her foot in a handsome little boat
And she'll sail across the sea."

7. "And what will you do with those three little babes?
My son, pray tell unto me."
"I'll leave them at home with my own dear father,
That he'll remember me."

8. "And when will you come back again?
My son, pray tell unto me."
"When the moon shall rise in the north,
And that shall never be."

Subject: RE:Origins:James Madison Carpenter-Child Ballads 5
From: Richie
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 12:42 PM

Hi,

Here's a North Carolina/Virginia version from Carpenter: James Madison Carpenter Collection, JMC/1/7/1/A, p. 10597.

"Edward." Sung by James York of Farmington, North Carolina, no date given but after 1941. This is the version sung by Horton Barker of Virginia in 1941 and included in Brown Collection, volume 4. The assumption is that York, a singer for Abrams in the late 1930s and also the Brown Collection learned his version from Barker or via Abrams recording of Barker.

1 "How come that blood on your knife, dear son?
Oh, dear son, tell me!"
"It is the blood of old grey horse,
That plowed the fields for me, me, me,
That plowed the fields for me."
"It does look too red for the old grey horse
That plowed the fields for thee, thee, thee,
That plowed the fields for thee."

2. "How come that blood on your knife, dear son?
Oh, dear son, tell me!"
"It is the blood of the guinea greyhound
That ran the deer for me, me, me,
That ran the deer for me.
"It does look too red for the guinea greyhound
That plowed the fields for thee, thee, thee,
That plowed the fields for thee."

3 "How come that blood on your knife, dear son?
Oh, dear son, tell me."
"It is the blood of my youngest brother
Who went away with me, me, me.
Who went away with me."

4 "And what did you fall out about?
Oh, dear son, tell me."
Because he cut a little apple bush
That soon would've made a tree, tree, tree,
That soon would've made a tree.

5 "And what will you do now, dear son?
Oh, dear son, tell me."
"I'll set my foot into yonder ship
And I'll sail across the sea, sea, sea,
And I'll sail across the sea."

6 "And when will you come back, dear son?
Oh, dear son, tell me."
"When the sun sets into yonder sycamore tree,
And that will never be, be, be,
And that will never be."

7 "And what will become of your dear little boy?
Oh, dear son, tell me."
"The world to wander in up and down,
For he never shall know of me, me, me.
For he never shall know of me."

8 "And what will become of your wife, dear son?
Oh, dear son, tell me."
"Sorrow and trouble all of her life,
For she'll see no more of me, me, me.
For she'll see no more of me.

9 "And what will you leave to your mother, dear son?
Oh, dear son, tell me."
"The curse of God I leave to you
For bringing this trouble on me, me, me,
For bringing this trouble on me."

Richie

Subject: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5
From: Richie
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 12:07 PM

Hi,

Robertson sang My Son David a number of times between 1952 and 1968 when she stopped performing. In Herschel Gower's interview, "Jeannie Robertson: Portrait of a Traditional Singer," Scottish Studies, 12 (1968) a murder motive of sibling jealously is given:

HG There's another ballad-"My Son David"-that you are often asked to sing, and in your version David says:
O I'm gang awa' in a bottomless boat
And I'll never return again....
Now what exactly do you think he meant when he told his mother that?

JR Well, it's very plain to be seen what he meant. If he was gang awa' in a bottomless boat-well, he was gang to droon himsel'. He wad never come back. He was gang to destroy his ain sel'.

HG And what do you think the two brothers fell out about?

JR The thing was that David was oldest and he was heir to everything, and the other brother was a very selfish, jealous brother. He wanted for nothin', he had everything too. But he didnae want that. He wanted to be the master, you see, o' the castle or fat ever it was. And he wanted to kill his brother and become master. So his mother likit David even better than fat she likit the other one. So when he tried to kill his brother, well, of course, it was a natural thing for David to fight to defend his sel'. So he killed his brother.

HG So this is a story of killing instead of being killed?

JR But David fought him in a fair fight and killed him.

HG That explains your version.

JR We hadnae enough o' the ballad, actually, to tell the whole story.

This simple explanation of motive is not contradicted by the brother's destruction of the "bush that never a tree." It's often some small incident which triggers a fight that leads to murder. The various "incest" theories seem to be wild speculation.

Do you agree?

Richie

Subject: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 11:06 AM

It's Regina Higgins, [ Jeanne Robertson ]

Dave H

Subject: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 5
From: Richie
Date: 15 Oct 18 - 10:39 AM

Hi,

Continuing our study of James Madison Carpenter collection and the Child Ballads we are now on Child 13 known as "My Son David/Son Davie" or "What's the Blood?" which Child has titled "Edward" after Percy's version, Child Ab. The legitimacy of Percy's version and hence Child's title has been questioned and I will be using the first two titles and other titles in reference to Child 13.

The Carpenter versions are from the United States which means the ballad was not found in tradition by Carpenter in Scotland and England in the early 1930s.

Along with Carpenter's versions from the US which are directly tied to North Carolina/Virginia and the Brown Collection will be a discussion of Child 13.

Child 13 is a fratricide, while Child Ab (Percy) is a patricide, while the motive (fighting over a little bush). The "little bush" has been called a kenning (Barry and others) for a relationship of the brothers with a younger sister.

The classic Scottish version was sung by Jeannie Robertson who learned the ballad from her mother when her brother and father were off fighting in World War I (1914-1918). I've put a date of c.1916 which is approximate. Robertson would have been 8 years old at that time. It was recorded from her many times in the 1950s and 60s.

MY SON DAVID Sung by Jeannie Robertson (Mrs. Jean Higgins), Aberdeenshire; Recorded by Hamish Henderson in 1952; Transcribed by Francis Collinson.

1. Oh what's the blood that's on your sword?
My son David, Ho son David,
What's the blood 'at's on your sword?
come promise tell me true.

2. Oh that's the blood of my grey meir;
Hey lady mother, Ho lady mother,
That's the blood of my grey meir
Because it wouldna rule by me.

3. O that blood it is ower clear;
My son David, etc.
That blood it is ower clear,
Come promise tell me true.

4. O that's the blood of my grey hound
Hey lady mother, etc.
That's the blood of my grey hound
Because it wouldna rule by me.

5. O that blood it is ower clear;
My son David, etc.
That blood it is ower clear,
Come promise tell me true.

6. O that's the blood of my brother John,
Hey lady mother, etc.
That's the blood of my brother John
Because he wouldna rule by me.

7. O when will you come back again,
My son David, etc.
When will you come back again
Come promise tell me true.

8. When the sun and moon meets in yon glen,
Hey lady mother, etc.
When the sun and moon meets in yon glen,
Will I return again.

The US versions, which by my guestimation date to at least the late 1700s, are represented by Sharp A, the Hicks version and Davis D- the Moncure version- both of which are very old.

As always, comments are welcome. I will post the Carpenter versions shortly,

Richie