BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 24 - 01:10 PM

”I believe it was Labour who actually managed to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn (and who now seem to be delighted that he is no longer part of the party)”

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the lies used by the Tories as a character-assassination tactic in their 2019 GE campaign (and which lies undoubtedly played a part in their achieving their landslide victory).

”How can you possibly know who has made a choice based on this as the election has yet to take place?”

Your English Comprehension skills seem to be somewhat lacking, Nigel - I haven’t claimed to know ‘who has made a choice based on this’, I simply gave an example of misinformation being put about by the Tories during the current GE campaign. If you can show where I made the claim that I ‘know who has made a choice based on this’, I would be very interested to see it.

You really do need to train yourself to resist picking at those nits.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 04 Jun 24 - 01:06 PM

Now now, you two. Put the handbags *down*, and step *away* from your keyboards, before your friendly neighbourhood MudElf happens by.

Meanwhile, back at SPB's comment: The problem would be that nobody would be convinced by a full-bore refutation, as the offender need only cry "conspiracy". Bad rumours become self-propagating, especially if they're juicy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jun 24 - 12:58 PM

Nigel, yes, there was misinformation on both sides. It was an awful and nasty campaign which, in my opinion, accelerated the slide into the gutter political fights that now seem to be the norm. However, BWM was right about the "barefaced lies of the Brexit 'Leave' campaign". No amount of wrongs will ever put that right.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Jun 24 - 11:52 AM

Backwoodsman: Some might say that **some** voters already make their choices based upon misinformation - e.g. the barefaced lies of the Brexit 'Leave' campaign, the scandalous character-assassination of Jeremy corbyn by the lies of the Tories in 2019, the oft-repeated claim by the Tories in this current GE that 'Labour has no plan' on whatever issue is being discussed.

1,the barefaced lies of the Brexit 'Leave' campaign, as opposed to the remainer lies of an immediate £60bn black hole, & mass unemployment
2,the scandalous character-assassination of Jeremy corbyn by the lies of the Tories in 2019, I believe it was Labour who actually managed to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn (and who now seem to be delighted that he is no longer part of the party)
3,the oft-repeated claim by the Tories in this current GE that 'Labour has no plan' on whatever issue is being discussed. How can you possibly know who has made a choice based on this as the election has yet to take place?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 24 - 10:49 AM

Some might say that **some** voters already make their choices based upon misinformation - e.g. the barefaced lies of the Brexit 'Leave' campaign, the scandalous character-assassination of Jeremy corbyn by the lies of the Tories in 2019, the oft-repeated claim by the Tories in this current GE that 'Labour has no plan' on whatever issue is being discussed.

Misinformation has long been a tool of the unscrupulous in our politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jun 24 - 09:52 AM

Just read about use of deep fake videos illegally using the BBC brand to supposedly post on social media insidious and insulting comments. With an election present, the BBC needs to call out this misuse of their brand and either (1) send everyone a transcript of the actual interview, or (b) rebroadcast the actual interview on all news channels and on its own social media and web pages. It might also be a good idea for the Electoral Commission to write to everyone in the relevant constituencies to notify use of deep fake that might impact on their voting choices. I would rather have millions of pounds of tax payers money spent keeping elections 'clean' than a single voter making a decision based upon misinformation, otherwise we might as well not bother with elections and ask the election manipulators who they want to win and save the money spent on a gneeral election.

Whatever the party affected, we cannot allow our democracy to be undermined this way.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 04 Jun 24 - 07:10 AM

> I think that finances are going to be very tight
> for the next government

*Agree*. The outgoing party doesn't need to care, and the incoming one daren't fail to match them boast-for-boast. The only one to solve this conundrum was Churchill, with his "sweat and tears" speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Jun 24 - 06:50 AM

A recent article from Tax Policy Associates

"Labour and the Tories have both said they can raise £6bn from cracking down on tax avoidance and evasion. How plausible is this?"

Is there a £6bn tax avoidance magic money tree?

++

Parties promise so much nowadays but it is becoming harder and harder to believe them. I think that finances are going to be very tight for the next government, whoever gets in.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Jun 24 - 05:53 AM

..... which serve no purpose whatsoever than being a ego trip ....

Like it or not, UKIP achieved its basic aim in the Brexit referendum.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jun 24 - 05:16 AM

Don't you just love (irony) those companies masquerading as political parties but with no effort or intention of being democratically organised which serve no purpose whatsoever than being a ego trip and potential side hustle for individuals who have mastered the art of playing to people's most base prejudices. That is all populism 'politics' is about. No doubt the knuckle draggers will adore fartarse with his messages that reinforce and legitimise their hatred.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Jun 24 - 01:29 PM

JC did have an advantage when it comes to money. Not everyone can rustle up a picnic for 5,000 without making a trip to the shops.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Jun 24 - 01:24 PM

Farage said at the press conference that he will be giving up his show on GB News.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jun 24 - 12:40 PM

They wouldn't have JC with his views on money :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Jun 24 - 12:35 PM

I do wonder what the position is with Farage standing to be MP and also having a regular show on GB News. That must breach the electoral rules, surely?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Jun 24 - 11:58 AM

Even the Second Coming of Christ as their leader wouldn’t make the Tories look good.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jun 24 - 11:44 AM

Good old Farage. The man who makes Tories look good...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Jun 24 - 11:24 AM

‘I am standing for Essex,’ Farage announces.

Maybe Clacton sounds too underwhelming. Let's begin the misrepresentations in the very announcement, then.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Jun 24 - 11:21 AM

He is taking over as leader of Reform and is also going tocontest Clacton.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jun 24 - 10:48 AM

I don't think they have moved quite that far right yet, Rain Dog, but nothing surprises me nowadays!

Nigel, even though you C&Pd the smiley at the end of my statement you seem to have not grasped the significance.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Jun 24 - 09:51 AM

From the BBC

"Reform UK honorary president Nigel Farage is due to make an "emergency announcement" as speculation mounts he'll stand as a candidate"

Do you think that he will be joining the Labour party?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Jun 24 - 08:52 AM

Dave:
Nigel "clearly stated by a leading Conservative" is just a euphemism for a lie :-)
No, it was pointing to a statement that funding for 'conscription' would be coming (partly) from the 'levelling up' funds. (which is something SPB claimed wasn't being admitted)

If you start with the belief that anything the Conservatives say will be lies then it's only worth listening to the Labour side of any argument.
But if you do that you'll only ever get one side, and that will also probably contain lies, but presumably Labour lies are acceptable.

Welcome to the echo-chamber.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jun 24 - 06:38 AM

BTW - You are also "under no compunction to read my posts" if you don't like what I say. And when you state that "we all are capable of hitting the ‘Scroll’ button" do you not apply that to yourself? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jun 24 - 03:13 AM

I do have a reasonable modicum of intelligence, BWM, but why you keep posting after saying "end of AFAIC" is beyond me. Was that really the "final time"? I doubt it...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Jun 24 - 12:23 AM

Dave, you seem to have a reasonable modicum of intelligence, so I wonder why you have such difficulty in understanding a statement so simple as ‘End of, AFAIC’?

Or perhaps you’re simply trying to provoke even more stupid argument over SFA?

I repeat, for the third and final time, ‘End of, AFAIC’.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 03:30 PM

Nigel "clearly stated by a leading Conservative" is just a euphemism for a lie :-)

John, you failed to mention that you were also a dog lover. How about I have a go at that?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 03:19 PM

”Fair enough but remember that if anyone ever attacks you by bringing up your physical characteristics, you will have no defence.”

I really don’t care about such things, Dave - as a slap-head, a short-arse, and a former fatty, who played competitive sports for many years, and was at times subjected by opponents to every insult in the book, I’m well-versed in dealing with those kinds of insults - I just ignore them. Water off a duck’s back AFAIC.

And, unlike some, I don’t try to ‘act the Mod’ and dictate to others the terms they should use to express themselves here. If people don’t like what I say, they’re under no compunction to read my posts, we all are capable of hitting the ‘Scroll’ button.

Now…End of, AFAIC.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 02:41 PM

Dave:
It doesn't matter at all what Cleverly said. The fact remains that the Tories try to obscure their failures with lies and misdirection.

It does matter when the previous claim was:
What the tories fail to (publicly) mention is that the scheme would be funded by UK Shared Prosperity Funding (so called levelling up), (by SPB).
I was pointing out that it had been clearly stated, by a leading Conservative.

All I was calling for was a little honesty. Perhaps that is hoping too much in a politics thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 02:15 PM

Fair enough but remember that if anyone ever attacks you by bringing up your physical characteristics, you will have no defence. Attack what people do, not how they look. The former is a personal choice, the latter is the luck of the draw.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 01:50 PM

I repeat - you do you, and I’ll do me. End of AFAIC.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 01:09 PM

To be fair, BWM, I had no idea who you were talking about either. And while I would agree that the Tories deserve to be ridiculed for their abysmal record I don't think that mocking someone's physical characteristics is a good ploy :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 06:38 AM

You need to hone your skills of comprehension and observation, Doug. Nigel’s post of 01 Jun 24 - 05:43 AM should help you solve the puzzle, along with this link.

In the meantime, I recommend you concentrate your criticism towards the bunch of greedy Self-servatives who have asset-stripped the country for the past fourteen years. They deserve every insult directed at them for the wilful harm they’ve brought on all but the most wealthy in our society.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 02 Jun 24 - 06:06 AM

How about names alongside the insults?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 10:57 PM

You do you, Doug, and I’ll do me. That’s how I roll.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 03:46 PM

Yes, fair enough Nigel, that was a straw man and I withdraw that argument. What you actually did was throw in your usual irrelevant nitpick. It doesn't matter at all what Cleverly said. The fact remains that the Tories try to obscure their failures with lies and misdirection.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 03:42 PM

... especially the BS spouted by Cone-head.

I wish you would use names instead of insults, BWM. I struggle to know who you mean.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 02:47 PM

Dave the Gnome.
I wasn't claiming to believe everything they say. I was pointing out (to SPB) that his claim that the Conservatives hadn't mentioned how the scheme would be funded was false.

If you want to set up a straw man argument, please go ahead. But I feel no reason to try to counter it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 01:44 PM

I never permit myself to fall for any of the BS put around by Tory Ministers, and especially the BS spouted by Cone-head.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 10:10 AM

"Mr Cleverly insisted the plan was "fully funded", with £1.5bn diverted from levelling up's UK Shared Prosperity Fund from 2028"

And after 14 years of blatant lying you still believe everything that comes out of the mouths of these con men?

Tell you what, Nigel, I have 47 million pounds that was left to me by a Nigerian Prince. Just send me your bank details if you want a share...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 07:38 AM

You have to hand it to the PR guy for the Conservatives. Not content with standing Sunak in front of the Titantic muse it seema they have picked theme music from "The Killers."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jun 24 - 05:43 AM

SPB: What the tories fail to (publicly) mention is that the scheme would be funded by UK Shared Prosperity Funding (so called levelling up),

According to (Home Secretary) James Cleverly:
Mr Cleverly insisted the plan was "fully funded", with £1.5bn diverted from levelling up's UK Shared Prosperity Fund from 2028. A further £1bn would come from a crackdown on tax avoidance and evasion, the Tories say. from BBC News

The fact that you may not have heard/read about official statements is no evidence that they haven't been made.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 May 24 - 04:24 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/09/emission-from-war-military-gaza-ukraine-climate-change
A Link to THE GUARDIAN, perfectly safe, and a topic that affects everyone in the world so it is relevant to this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 31 May 24 - 04:16 AM

Starmer and Sunak will be under pressure to comment on the outcome of Trump's trial.

My.money is on 'We don't comment on other country's decisions' (even though of course they so when it suits)

As ex-DPP Starmer has the harder task, but we know there a significant chance Trump gets elected, and we know he always bears grudges. Both candidates will take that into account.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 May 24 - 04:12 AM

I think a national community service,non military would be a better idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: DMcG
Date: 30 May 24 - 03:50 PM

As far as community volunteering is concerned, I presume the government decides what is acceptable. I wonder how much will be rejected as "too woke."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 May 24 - 06:41 AM

Also will there be a clear distinction between national service volunteers and community service order volunteers beyond the requirement for those serving community service orders to wear hi-vis vests - a step below the previous practice of branding malefactors.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 May 24 - 06:37 AM

What the tories fail to (publicly) mention is that the scheme would be funded by UK Shared Prosperity Funding (so called levelling up), which replaces lost EU Regional Economic Development Programmes funding. The upshot is that the most deprived regions will lose significant levels of financial support and investment.

There are other issues which are conveniently being ignored.

(1)If young people are expected to sign up for military national service, then they need to be paid at the same entry rate as professionals. This seems to be no more than getting the numbers up 'on the cheap;. Another question is will professional recruitment be frozen as a cost cutting exercise.

(2) By making community volunteering an obligation, this devalues the contribution of vast numbers of people who volunteer by their own volition. How will the government ensure the additional recognition of the countless numbers of people who are already making a significant contribution to their communities? If my volunteering was to be labelled as National Service (albeit me being 64), I would probably walk.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 May 24 - 09:26 PM

> Bring Back White Dog-shit

That'd corner them the tanners' vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 May 24 - 04:21 PM

Following on from the huge success of the Tories’ ‘Bring Back National Service’ announcement, it’s rumoured that Rishi Sunak will shortly announce their next election promise - to Bring Back White Dog-shit… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 May 24 - 08:00 AM

Absolutely nothing AFAICS. Probably posted to the wrong thread…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics - 3
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 May 24 - 07:50 AM

Pray tell what this has to do with either Brexit or UK Politics