BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Dec 25 - 08:03 AM

As a Right-Winger, what do you think should happen to her, Nigel?

I think it should be investigated whether she has deliberately misled parliament (or the country).
I am not calling for her to be sacked, but that might be the outcome of an investigation.

The head of the OBR has already resigned for the early leak of the Budget. But Reeves had already been leaking parts for weeks (assuming that the details which found their way into the public arena were based on her comments).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Dec 25 - 02:45 AM

”FWIW, and as someone who considers his views slightly Left-of-Centre, I completely agree with him…”

Should have been…

“…as someone who considers his OWN views…”

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Dec 25 - 01:53 PM

Here’s Jack Dart’s view of Reeves’ budget and the furore that followed. FWIW, and as someone who considers his views slightly Left-of-Centre, I completely agree with him…

”The reaction to Rachel Reeves’s Budget has been vicious. Since Wednesday, right-wing papers have hurled accusations of deceit, betrayal and incompetence at her, with front pages screaming about “tax bombs” and “Budget lies” and columns insisting she should be driven out of office. The Sun is already pushing polls on whether she should be sacked and calling this the worst Budget in living memory, while the Mail paints a picture of hard-working families crushed so she can splurge on benefits. The tone is not serious economic criticism. It looks like a campaign to topple a Chancellor they never wanted and to poison any Labour attempt to repair the damage they helped create.

These same papers behaved very differently when Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng blew a hole in the public finances. Truss’s mini-Budget was a package of unfunded tax cuts tilted towards higher earners and big business, the kind of experiment any responsible outlet should have treated with deep scepticism. Instead, the Mail splashed “At last! A true Tory Budget” and praised its supposed boldness, while the Sun celebrated a tax-cut “bonanza” that would shower people with extra cash. Then the markets went into freefall, the pound slumped, the Bank of England had to step in to stop pension funds collapsing and mortgage costs spiked for millions. Only at that point did those cheerleaders start to edge away from the wreckage and reinvent themselves as stern critics.

Reeves’s Budget is painful and flawed, but it is nothing like that kamikaze experiment. Her plan raises roughly twenty-odd billion a year in extra tax, mostly from employers and better-off households, and directs some of that money into lifting the two-child cap and shoring up services. The OBR has signed off the numbers. There is a real argument about whether the balance is right, whether the focus on “stability” goes too far, whether more ambitious investment is needed. Instead of engaging with those choices, the right-wing press has jumped straight to branding her a liar, insisting the “black hole” was fabricated and treating every line in the Red Book as proof of moral failure.

What they never acknowledge is their own role in the mess people are living through now. They cheered on austerity, cheered on Brexit, cheered on Truss’s fantasy Budget, and every one of those choices has fed into the weak growth, higher borrowing costs and threadbare services that Reeves is now trying to navigate. When they howl about “tax raids” they rarely mention the mortgage chaos their preferred policies caused, or the hit to pensions and wages from the economic shocks they backed. Their fury at Reeves is about stopping a Labour Chancellor from proving that you can ask those with broader shoulders to contribute more, scrap a cruel policy like the two-child cap, and still keep the markets calm.

We should be tough on this Budget. We should keep asking who pays, who gains and whether the plan matches the scale of the crisis. What we should refuse to do is let the same newspapers that applauded the Truss disaster pose as guardians of responsibility while they try to drag Reeves down. They are defending an ideological project, not your living standards, and their record tells you exactly how much their judgement is worth.”

Here’s a link to Jack Dart’s original FB piece for the Non-Facebook-phobic.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Dec 25 - 12:14 PM

As a Right-Winger, what do you think should happen to her, Nigel?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Dec 25 - 11:37 AM

"I am a little surprised by this, if the claim was untrue why on earth did the conservatives not make a huge fuss about it when it was first stated there was black hole in July 2024, why has it taken 18 months for them to realise."

That black hole was (supposedly) dealt with in the 2024 budget. This claimed 30 billion black hole was a new one (based on Labour policies, not Conservative)
But it seems to have disappeared between Rachel Reeves discussing it as a reason that the whole country might have to tighten their belts, and the budget a few weeks later.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Dec 25 - 05:41 AM

"It now appears that the chancellor (Rachel Reeves) lied about a £30 billion 'black hole' in the UK's finances."

I am a little surprised by this, if the claim was untrue why on earth did the conservatives not make a huge fuss about it when it was first stated there was black hole in July 2024, why has it taken 18 months for them to realise.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Dec 25 - 03:39 AM

Well, I am not particularly left wing Nigel but I would support a probe into the allegations. As far as I can see she is denying it and until the ethics committee find the truth there is no point speculating. If it is proven that she purposely misled the country then she should be treated in the same way as the proven liars that have plagued our land since the Brexit campaign. With disdain.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Nov 25 - 08:22 PM

It now appears that the chancellor (Rachel Reeves) lied about a £30 billion 'black hole' in the UK's finances.
And that Keir Starmer was aware of the claim, and that it was a false claim.
Will any of the left-wingers here support the actions of these two?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Nov 25 - 02:50 AM

The conviction of Gill for taking btibes., illustrates the need for INVESTIGATION OF REFORM RUSSIA LINKS.
Nathan Lee Gill (born 6 July 1973) is a British former politician who served as the Leader of Reform UK Wales from March to May 2021 and UKIP in Wales from 2014 to 2016. He previously served as Member of the European Parliament (MEP) for Wales from 2014 to January 2020[3] as well as a Member of the National Assembly for Wales from May 2016 to December 2017.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Nov 25 - 09:31 AM

Certainly not Reform, or The Conservatives

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Nov 25 - 10:41 AM

Raggy:
Not totally. I think we both want what is best for the country, and its people.
We just disagree about who is most likely to provide that.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Nov 25 - 05:26 PM

I am somewhat surprised to find myself in the same camp as Nigel as our politics are diametrically opposed.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Nov 25 - 01:27 PM

Sandman: Gill was a reform MEP, not a uk MP
According to the website of the European Parliament (whose information I would trust above that of the Guardian)
Nathan Gill was an MEP for the Brexit Party.
Here
So you still seem to be getting it wrong.

You have called for me to apologise for being factual. Are you going to apologise for being false?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Nov 25 - 01:17 PM

"From: The Sandman - PM
Date: 21 Nov 25 - 05:01 PM
He was a member of the european parliament, i have provided ypu with facts, unles you apoligize for your boorish rude post , it will look like you are an apologist for Gill and reform."
No, your initial post said: ex Reform MP Sentenced for bribery link to Guardian

Nathan Gill has never been an MP.
That is the 'crap' that I was calling out.

Would you care to reconsider?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 23 Nov 25 - 12:03 PM

.... What annoys me is that very few news outlets refer to the offending party as anything other than "Reform UK" or "Reform 2025". For some reason, they never seem to append "Ltd" to either form. Is there a superinjunction in operation?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 05:40 PM

I think we know the answer to that, Raggy ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 05:18 PM

Its quiet simple Dick, was he, as you stated, or was he not a Reform MP.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 02:15 PM

Gill was a reform MEP, not a uk MP
He was    Reform UK’s former Wales leader, and was a member of the European parliament, and he has been convicted of bribery
Former Welsh Reform leader jailed for pro-Russia bribery
1 day ago
David Deans,Wales political reporter and
Ben Summer,BBC Wales

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 12:42 PM

My apologies, Dick, I did not know that Reform's legal status had changed this year and should have looked it up. I am happy to change my statement to "I shall also continue to fight against the policies of Reform that was a PLC until earlier this year".

Now, how about you admit that Gill is not and never has been a Reform MP and apologise for refering to him as an 'ex Reform MP'?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 12:31 PM

"Initially the Reform UK party was a limited company (the Reform UK Party Limited)[297] with fifteen shares. Farage owned 53% of the shares in the company, giving him a controlling majority. The other shareholders were Tice, who holds about a third, and Chief Executive Paul Oakden and Party Treasurer Mehrtash A'Zami who each held less than seven percent.[297] In August 2024 Paul Oakden was removed and Farage took over his shares, giving him 60% ownership.[298] As of 2025, ownership of the party was transferred from Farage to a new business legally constituted as Reform 2025 Limited, a company limited by guarantee, replacing the original company which was controlled by Farage as majority shareholder.[299][300] The directors and guarantors of the new company are Farage and Ziauddin Yusuf, who will effectively control the new company.[299][300][301] The business's filing stated that it had no "person with significant control".[299]
"
Farage has said the party would largely be funded by small donations and that they raised "£750,000 in donations online, all in small sums of less than £500" in their first ten days. The party also accepts large donations.[302] He further said that the party would not be taking money from the key former UKIP funder Arron Banks.[30][303] Farage personally faced questions during the 2019 electoral campaign after Channel 4 News revealed undeclared travel and accommodation benefits provided by Banks before Farage joined the Brexit Party, and on 21 May 2019 the European Parliament formally opened an investigation.[304] In response to the reporting, the Brexit Party banned Channel 4 News from its events

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 12:22 PM

300

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 11:52 AM

the important thing that you seem to miss, is that he had been connected with reform and was...
    Reform UK’s former Wales leader, and was a member of the European parliament
what do you mean Reform PLC
Reform is not a Public Limited Company (PLC); it is a non-profit organization registered with Companies House with "no persons with significant control"
. As a political party, it operates under different legal structures than a commercial company.
You lecture me about correct descriptions, and then describe REFORM as a PLC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 11:16 AM

It is not pedantary to point out that Nathan Gill was never a reform MP and therefore should not be referred to as an ex reform MP.

I shall also continue to fight against the policies of Reform PLC but as they rely on lies, deceit and misinformation we need to make sure that our own arguments stand up to scrutiny

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 09:55 AM

The brains of a pedant however full, are vacant.
Sir Fulke Greville

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 09:51 AM

I will continue to criticise, reform, ukip, nathan gill.
apoligize was a typo.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 09:41 AM

NOBODY Other than nigel mentioned the conservative party.From the Guardian
Reform UK
Analysis
Farage’s views on Russia likely to be further tested after jailing of Nathan Gill
Rowena Mason
Whitehall editor

It would be expedient for Reform to take Labour’s advice and disavow ‘Putin talking points’

    Reform UK’s former Wales leader jailed for taking bribes for pro-Russia speeches

Fri 21 Nov 2025 18.02 CET

The discovery of a pro-Russian asset, Nathan Gill, at the heart of a British political party reads like the plot of a John Le Carré novel.

Russia was long known to have been trying to interfere in foreign politics with online bots and cyber-disinformation over the past decade.

However, the Nathan Gill case is now a concrete example of a pro-Russian agent enlisting and paying a Brexit-friendly party politician to spread the propaganda of Moscow and against Ukraine in Europe.

In the 1960s, it tended more to be Labour and far-left politicians who were largely the subject of Soviet attempts to plant agents in the west. In modern times, it is no surprise that the parties Gill represented were Ukip, the Brexit party, and briefly Reform UK.

When seeking a sympathetic vessel for pro-Russia views, the nationalist, anti-EU and anti-migrant parties of Europe have been obvious targets for Vladimir Putin’s Russia – which have a shared hostility towards the European bloc.

Farage, who led Ukip, the Brexit party and now Reform, and was a longstanding associate of Gill, has claimed the former MEP was a “bad apple” who betrayed his party and country.

But Farage’s own publicly expressed views on Russia and Putin appear to have created an environment in which those more sympathetic than most to Moscow have been drawn to his parties.

The court case shows that while Gill was the only MEP found to have taken payments for making pro-Russia statements, some of his colleagues had been making similar points in favour of Moscow’s narrative on the war in Ukraine without reward.

Farage himself, who has not been under scrutiny as part of the investigation or played in role in assisting it, has spoken of his admiration for Putin as a political operator and repeatedly warned the west against “poking the Russian bear with a stick”, in recent years accusing it of provoking the war in Ukraine.

Back in 2014, he cited Putin as the politician he most admired, “as an operator but not as a human being”. Asked whether he regretted making the comments at the time, Farage told a Chatham House audience: “I said I don’t like him, I wouldn’t trust him and I wouldn’t want to live in his country, but compared with the kids who run foreign policy in this country, I’ve more respect for him than our lot.”

He also made at least 17 appearances on state-owned Russia Today between 2010 and 2014, on which he made no criticisms of Russian democracy and claimed Europe was governed not by elected democracies but instead “by the worst people we have seen in Europe since 1945”.
Nigel Farage speaks into the microphone while sitting on a sofa at a bitcoin conference
Cryptocurrency backed by Farage donor is used for Russian war effort, investigators say
Read more

The issue of Russia is also felt by some Reform insiders to have harmed the party in last year’s election, when Farage repeated his views since the 1990s that “the ever-eastward expansion” of the Nato military alliance and the EU was giving Putin “a reason to [give to] his Russian people to say ‘they’re coming for us again’ and to go to war”. He added: “We provoked this war. Of course, it’s his fault.”

Reform UK as a party now appears to sense there is some political danger in appearing too generous towards Russia, given it is ahead in the polls and public opinion in the UK is firmly pro-Ukraine and anti-Moscow. The party said on Friday that Gill had acted in a “reprehensible, treasonous and unforgivable” way.

However, Farage’s own views on Russia and Ukraine are likely to be further tested – particularly on whether he still believes the west provoked the war.

Labour, no doubt, scents the possibility of undermining Reform UK’s poll lead by calling on Farage to root out pro-Russia views within his party and to disavow “Putin talking points” such as the idea that the west and Ukraine provoked Putin’s invasion.

Farage is not a politician known for letting go of long-held positions, even when it is politically expedient. But it would be good politics by Reform to take their rival party’s advice.
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 09:36 AM

Nathan Lee Gill (born 6 July 1973) is a British former politician who served as the Leader of Reform UK Wales from March to May 2021 and UKIP in Wales from 2014 to 2016. He previously served as Member of the European Parliament (MEP) for Wales from 2014 to January 2020[3] as well as a Member of the National Assembly for Wales from May 2016 to December 2017.

Gill served as a UK Independence Party (UKIP) MEP until his defection on 6 December 2018,[4] and from 2016 to 2017 also an independent Member of the National Assembly for Wales.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 06:06 AM

‘Apoligize’ is not the American spelling of ‘apologise’.

Attention to detail - always.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 05:08 AM

In the UK the correct title for a member of the European Parliament is MEP. This is to distinguish them from members of our own parliament who are known as MPs. In addition, Gill sat in the European Parliament as a member of UKIP and then the Brexit party. To call him an "ex Reform MP" is wrong and very misleading.

Details do matter. Get the facts right and you are much more likely to win the argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Nov 25 - 03:07 AM

Gill was a member for the European parliament, that means he was a MEMBER OF A PARLIAMENT.
you said "Of course, some people will come here and post any 'crap' they think shows Reform (or even The Conservative Party) in a bad light." ,

in fact i posted the truth, i used the American spelling for apologise nobody other than you mentioned the conservatives
Nigel
Please apologise for your comments, or else, 'go away'

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Nov 25 - 07:55 PM

"He was a member of the european parliament, i have provided ypu with facts, unles you apoligize for your boorish rude post , it will look like you are an apologist for Gill and reform."?

You claimed that he was a 'reform MP'.

I will ignore the fact that you cannot spell either 'unless' or 'apologise'. Or understand that 'European' requires a capital letter.

Calling my post 'boorish and rude' is to totally misunderstand the use of the English language.

Please apologise for your comments, or else, 'go away' (Polite version of what I would prefer to say)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Nov 25 - 05:01 PM

He was a member of the european parliament, i have provided ypu with facts, unles you apoligize for your boorish rude post , it will look like you are an apologist for Gill and reform.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Nov 25 - 02:47 PM

Nigel, here
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PM says Farage 'needs to launch an investigation' after Reform member jailed over pro-Russian bribes

The former leader of Reform UK in Wales has been sentenced to 10 and a half years after he admitted accepting tens of thousands of pounds in cash to make pro-Russian statements to the media and European Parliament.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Nov 25 - 02:45 PM

https://news.sky.com/video/pm-says-farage-needs-to-launch-an-investigation-after-reform-member-jailed-over-pro-russian-bribes-13
here is a link to sky news on the subject, some facts for you . I am not posting crap but fact, no one has mentioned the conservative arty other than you

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Nov 25 - 02:40 PM

"ex Reform MP Sentenced for bribery link to Guardian"
I didn't realise that having a link to The Guardian was a problem.
The link given fails to find the story.
Despite the claim, Nathan Gill doesn't appear to have ever been an 'MP'.

Of course, some people will come here and post any 'crap' they think shows Reform (or even The Conservative Party) in a bad light.
Is it too much to ask for some facts?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Nov 25 - 02:11 PM

ex Reform MP Sentenced for bribery link to Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/21/nigel-farage-urged-to-root-out-reform-links-to-russia-after-jailing-of-nathan-g

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Nov 25 - 05:07 AM

I agree

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Aethelric
Date: 14 Nov 25 - 05:11 AM

The budget is still over a week away. It's pathetic they way they are leaking stuff all over the place to gauge public opinion instead of just doing what needs to be done.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Nov 25 - 04:38 AM

what is the opinion of others on the uk budget?
Reeves has done a U turn, Presumably not wanting to be unpopular. here is a link from RTE NEWS to a article from FT
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2025/1114/1

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Nov 25 - 09:47 AM

Anti immigrant populism, appeals to the worst in people, its a divisive tactic that has never yet solved any economic problem

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Nov 25 - 08:57 AM

Who supports Reform and why

Interesting breakdown. It is noticeable that 3 out of the 5 groups are anti-immigrant. As I kave often said these people are not idiots, although only 1 in 5 have gone to degree level education. They are dissillusioned and Reform are offereng an 'easy answer'. Sadly, many do not see that the populist easy answer is doomed to failure. Deporting immigrants will hit poorer paid jobs, particularly in the NHS, which is also a concern. A regulated and balanced media, icluding social media, would also help but I am not going to hold my breath for that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Nov 25 - 02:24 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y0z2q2g2ro link about starmer leadership

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 25 - 03:36 AM

As I said, Nigel, I think that the only option is, as you say, a tax raising budget, even if it us unpopular.

Oh, and you missed the elephant in the room with your additional costs - Brexit. The 2.5% reduction in economy that it has cost so far would have gone a long way towards filling the Black hole. But every Tory government since Cameron has gone for the populist option rather than the sensible one. Let us hope that Reeves' budget, unpopular as it will be, will put the economy above self interest for a change.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Nov 25 - 09:11 PM

"the present state of the uk economy, has to be down to the conservatives who mishandled the economy for years, " (Ignoring the one-off costs of Covid & Ukraine.)
And when Labour came in they claimed things were worse than they expected, but having seen all the figures they could sort it out with one large tax-raising budget (2024) which would not need to be repeated.
One year later . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 25 - 04:24 PM

the present state of the uk economy, has to be down to the conservatives who mishandled the economy for years, before the labour party recently inherited a mess, Nigel has buttered his own parsnips, with his doggerel

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 05 Nov 25 - 03:06 PM

Jeremy Hunt as Chancellor left Labour a carefully-poisoned fiscal chalice. The Conservatives weren't thinking of improving their chances in the then-upcoming election, but in the one after that, when Labour could take the flak for them.

At least Rachel Reeves has now said the quiet bit out loud, and on the record: the 4% hit on the UK economy directly attributable to Brexit. It's unfortunate that she didn't mention that earlier, and get the Pavlovian baying in the English meeja out of the way, but tap-dancing in a minefield does tend to be distracting.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Nov 25 - 08:11 AM

HELD power! #%*@&¥!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Nov 25 - 08:09 AM

I can’t disagree Dave, although I think (at least, I hope!) that the pledge not to increase tax was made before the absolute nightmare of the shit-show the Tories had left - a deliberate booby-trap device IMHO - was fully understood.

Like you, I hope that she aims her increases towards corporations and the wealthy, and leaves those at the lower end alone.

I had to smile at the inept Helen Whateley on Politics Live today, twittering about the Labour government referring to the mess the Tories had left even though Labour have been in power for eighteen months, whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that her own Party made precisely the same complaints for the entire fourteen years they help power about the previous Labour government.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Nov 25 - 06:09 AM

Nice one, Nigel :-D

Oddly enough though. I think increasing tax is her only way forward now. It will be interesting to see how she does it - Corporation tax, higher rate income tax and VAT on 'luxury' goods would be my targets while removing or cutting VAT on energy bills would help those on lower incomes. Whatever she does will be wrong and, to be honest, I think the pledge to not increase tax was very foolish anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Nov 25 - 01:36 AM

Thousands posted that it was an illegal immigrant without the slightest concern for the truth. Or the victims! quote.
proves that those people are racists