Lyr Req: Jerusalem (The English Song)

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Mo
Date: 01 Oct 98 - 07:27 AM

Pete - I suppose it's the fact that he writes about "England" rather than "Britain" that makes me feel it's pro-imperialist. Why should God walk only on England's "green and pleasant land" - why not Britain's? Even in Blakes time we were supposed to be a united kingdom - and that all member countries were equal within it. I could rant on at length about this, even though I'm not particularly nationalistic, but frankly it would be really boring to read - so I'll spare you it!! However, there's no denying this is a lovely song to sing .. even if I do know some people who on a point of principle will not sing it - but then, they won't sing the National Anthem either because of the old original verse about "quelling the rebellious Scots"

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Pete M
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 09:25 PM

Hi Mo,

I was wondering what was the cause of your feeling that Blakes Jerusalem is "pro imperialist English"?

I've not read much Blake, or analysis of his work, but it seems clear that his intention was, as Jerry noted above, a crie de coeur against the materialistic world as exemplified by the industrial revolution, and a desire to return to, or build a society based on spiritual values. Hardly a view consistent with imperialism, and as you say, if we must label songs, then socialist seems far more appropriate.

However you care to interperet it, it's a great song.

Pete M

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Mo
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 07:42 PM

Funnily enough I believe this is the Jerusalem that is associated with the Women's Institute - not Blake's one. I always thought there was only one Jerusalem(foolish child that I was!)until I saw a television programme a few years ago about the WI where they sang the "hosanna in the highest" one.

Try as I might to dislike this hymn/song as being pro-imperialist English, I find I can't - it's such a great tune and the words are so socialist in their meaning (well, that's my preferred interpretation anyway)that it's hard to dislike them...

Mo

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Les Travis
Date: 29 Sep 98 - 10:15 AM

Here's what I remember of "Jerusalem":

Last night as I lay dreaming
I dreamed a dream so fair
I stood in old Jerusalem
Beside the temple there

The light of God was on its streets
The gates were open wide
And all who would might enter there
And no one was denied

No need for sun to shine by day
Nor moon or stars by night
It was the new Jerusalem that would not pass away
It was the new Jerusalem that would not pass away

Jerusalem, Jerusalem, Lift up your gates and sing
Hosanna in the highest, Hosanna to your king

And once again the scene was changed
New earth there seemed to be
I stood in old Jerusalem
Beside the tideless sea
The light of god was... AND HERE MY MEMORY FAILS ME

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Dale Rose
Date: 25 Feb 98 - 04:50 AM

I guess it must be because St. Patrick's Day is approaching, but it seems that everywhere I turn lately, there is a song that has been performed by John McCormack! I have it on Pearl CD 9970, John McCormack in English Song. The notes are quite extensive, and I will type them in here. Even though they rehash many of the points so nicely given by others, they do wrap the legend neatly into one package.

(1916)Preface to the poem "Milton" (William Blake 1757-1827/Sir Hubert Parry 1848-1918, recorded by John McCormack on 6 Nov. 1941.

Moving on 24 years we come to the recording which most endeared McCormack to English people- Jerusalem. He used to sing it regularly for the troops in military camps and canteens during World War II, reminding us that his last 300 or so performances were all given in the United Kingdom. The words of the poem recall the Glastonbury legend, which tells of the infant Jesus being brought to Glastonbury in Somerset by the wealthy merchant Joseph of Arimathea around the year 10 AD. It is Jesus who is referred to in the poem as "Those feet" "The Holy lamb of God" "The Countenance divine" while "Jerusalem builded here" alludes to the implanting of Christianity in England. The legend goes back to at least the sixth century, while Glastonbury Thorn (which still exists) is claimed as having grown from a cutting of Christ's crown of thorns, and the Glastonbury cup (a remarkable piece of Phoenician glass) can still be seen and is claimed as the Holy Grail (the cup used by Jesus at the last supper). Gerald Moore wrote in his autobiography that it was this performance which first endeared him to the music of Sir Hubert Parry. Certainly John McCormack sings England's national song with all his heart and soul.

From the notes to the album by Brian Fawcett-Johnston.

One final note, McCormack sings the lyrics exactly as Bert gave them.

Subject: Lyr Add: JERUSALEM (parody from The Corries)
From: Alex
Date: 19 Feb 98 - 10:18 PM

The Corries did a parody of that Jerusalem.

Last night I borrowed a full dress suit
To go to a full dress ball.
The trousers were too large for me,
The jacket was too small
I cut two feet off the trouser legs
And then I tried it out
And as I walked across the floor
You could hear the people shout
(And as I walked across the floor
You could hear the people shout).
Yer losin' them, yer losin' them
Hitch up your trousers high
Whose are they? Whose are they?
My God, what a terrible sight
Whose are they? Whose are they?
Yer losin' them tonight!

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: alison
Date: 18 Feb 98 - 10:42 PM

Hi,

It starts off,

Last night as I lay dreaming,

There came a dream so fair

I stood in old Jerusalem besdie the temple there.

I remember our church choir used to do it, and I used to accompany my mum when she sang it as a solo.

Slainte

Alison

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From:
Date: 17 Feb 98 - 06:18 PM

That's it. Did the Mormon Tabernacle Choir do a version?

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Feb 98 - 02:49 AM

Hi, Tim- after a lot of research, I found out that song is called "The Holy City." The chorus goes something like this:

Jerusalem, Jerusalem,
Hear how the angels sing
Hosanna in the highest
Hosanna to our King!

I haven't found the lyrics or music yet. Somebody said Belafonte made a recording of it, but I haven't found that, either.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From:
Date: 15 Feb 98 - 06:53 PM

Remember that there is another hymn, which I think is also called Jerusalem. I saw the Holy City, etc. The chorus is something like Jerusalem! Jerusalem! etc. Hosana in the highest, etc. (Why can't I remember the lyrics) It is a very rousing hymn indeed.

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From:
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 10:47 PM

A very good version of the song can be found on "The Internationale" by Billy Bragg. On the cd it is entitled "Blakes Jerusalem".

Slainte Rick

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: alison
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 05:02 PM

Hi

that sounds familiar. Thanks Bill.

Slainte

Alison

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 09 Feb 98 - 08:18 AM

As I recall, it was Joseph's staff which, when stuck into the earth, took root and grew, and became the celebrated Glastonbury Thorn.

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: alison
Date: 08 Feb 98 - 08:31 PM

Hi,

There's another one about Joseph of Arimathea. Unfortunately I can't remeber it exactly, but there is a thorn (?hawthorn) tree growing at Glastonbury Cathedral, where Arthur is thought to be buried. This thorn grew from something Joseph brought with him, this is where I forget what exactly, no doubt someone else knows and will help out. I seem to remember it as being a seedling he planted that had come from the tree which was used to make Christ's crown of thorns. (or possibly the cross)

Fascinating place Glastonbury. Lots of strange vibes about the place.

slainte

Alison

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 08 Feb 98 - 02:04 PM

And of course, during the credits the movie Chariots of Fire, which took its title from the poem. It makes Vangelis's music seem pretty lame, IMAO.

Jon, there's a brief reference to legends of Jesus in England, and more on Joseph of Arimathea and King Arthur, in a discussion of a Van Morrison song here.

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From:
Date: 07 Feb 98 - 03:32 PM

I think it is also sung at the Last Night At The Proms.

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: BAZ
Date: 06 Feb 98 - 06:11 PM

And did those feet in ancient times Stand upon England's pastures green.

These lines are supposed to refer to Jesus coming to England.

People in this part of Cornwall believe it happened just above the village I live in (Mullion on the Lizard). There was a thriving copper mine here and trade certainly took place with people from that part of the world at about that time.

By the way the song is most famous over here as the theme song of the Women's Institute. (A formidable bunch of women) so careful how you rubbish the legend.

Regards

Baz

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 06 Feb 98 - 05:13 PM

You can find the text of the poem as Blake himself printed it at here. Other than punctuation and capitalization, there are one or two slight wording differences from Bert's version.

RS, Blake's poetry is a little difficult to explain because, as Tim hinted, he did not experience quite the same reality that many of us do. To really understand it, you'd have to study his mystical thought and vision (or delusional system)--something that many people find worthwhile on literary and artistic grounds as well as for his insight, but that I haven't done. This poem is from the Preface to Milton, which according to the notes where I found this poem is about the descent of Milton's soul into Blake's at a crucial time in Blake's life.

But even without that study, I think we can say the poem is basically about the contrast between the Edenic England of Blake's vision and the real industrialized England that he saw as dirty and spiritually impoverished. In the first four lines the images of Jesus seem quite appropriate to the ideal England; in the second four they are highly incongruous. Perhaps the reader is supposed to answer the questions in the first quatrain "yes" and answer those in the second quatrain "no".

The third and fourth quatrains are clearer--he intends to fight industrialization and repression with all the weapons at his command. Both the poem and Blake's life show that the weapons are not physical ones (though he is recorded as having fought with a stick in self-defense); reading the poem as imperialistic or jingoistic would be fatuous. It is radical, though. He describes his goal as the New Jerusalem of the Biblical book of Revelation, that is, as paradise regained. As some of his other poems show, by the way, part of the repression he is fighting is sexual repression--hence the arrows of desire.

And now if Joe Offer is still with me--the Chartist movement was a British movement demanding a "People's Charter" to protect workers' rights. The movement was repressed by law, and the charter was never adopted, of course. The young Marx and Engels were involved in the movement. All I know about it is from Stephen Brust and Emma Bull's historical fantasy Freedom and Necessity. Some of their other novels have folk-music interest, but not that one so much. (I enjoyed it anyway.)

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Bruce O.
Date: 06 Feb 98 - 11:03 AM

I don't know about all the Arthurian stories, but it was supposedly Joseph of Aramathea, not Jesus, that took the 'holy grail' to England. The 'graal' was an earlier story by Chretien des Troyues, but first became 'holy grail' and connected to Joseph of Ar. in a peom by a Frenchman Robert de Boron about 1190 A.D. Camelot doesn't turn up until later French stories. A recent book come to the tentative conclusion that Camelot might have been Viriconium in Wales, abandoned about 520 A.D., probably right after the civil war that culminated at the battle of Camlann, where Arthur and Modred/ Mordred/ Mawdred were killed. [This assumes that there was an Arthur and Modred.]

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Jon W.
Date: 06 Feb 98 - 10:33 AM

I could go into lots of LDS (Mormon) doctrine on the New Jerusalem in America but this is probably not the right place. However I'm curious about this poem. The first verse asks four questions--basically did Jesus visit England in person and establish a "New Jerusalem?". Are there any legends/myths/etc. from England which indicate the answers to these questions are "Yes"? Is this talking about Camelot by any chance?

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Feb 98 - 12:51 AM

RS, Paul Robeson did indeed make a recording of "Jerusalem." It's on an Omega Classics CD called "The Odyssey of Paul Robeson." The album notes, by Paul Robeson Jr., say that "Jerusalem" was the hymn of the English Chartist Movement of the 1830's, not that I can remember what the Chartist Movement was.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 05 Feb 98 - 10:44 PM

And speaking of settings of William Blake's poetry, Greg Brown did an entire album of his settings of Blake's poetry about 5(?) years ago.

I usually associate the "New Jerusalem" with America and specifically New England, where early Americans saw themselves as rebuilding a society in the image of the City on the Hill. But Blake's vision seems much more sardonic, trying to build a new Jerusalem among satanic mills. Then again, as Blake himself once said, "Joy & Woe are woven fine..."

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From:
Date: 05 Feb 98 - 10:08 PM

It is still in the hymnals in Canada, although it is rarely sung. People who think it jingoistic miss the point of the poem, IMHO.

Yes, it was on Brain Salad Surgery. I once owned that LP.

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: jeffs
Date: 05 Feb 98 - 09:47 PM

Emerson, Lake, and Palmer performed it on Brain Salad Surgery (I think). That's about the right time frame for RS' question. Didn't it just get thrown out of Anglican hymnals as being too jingoistic?

jeff

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From:
Date: 05 Feb 98 - 09:39 PM

William Blake wrote the poem, but he did not write the music to which the hymn is sung. The hymn is often dismissed as a relic of imperialism, but I think Blake had a more profound religious message in mind when he wrote the poem.

I have read that Blake put many of his poems to music, in a folky rustic style, but lacking the skill to write down the music it has all been lost. Not much notice was taken of him in his time, probably not helped by the fact that he claimed to see angels in the trees. He was also an artist, and illustrated the books of his poetry, and originals of his work are worth a fortune.

A group from Kingston Ontario some time ago, in the 1960's or 1970's, set some of his poems to music, the best one being their version of his "Ah, Sunflower!" The public library in that city used to have a copy of this LP.

Subject: RE: Lyrics For "Jerulasem"
From: RS
Date: 05 Feb 98 - 07:43 PM

I can hear (in my mind) someone singing this in a deep resounding bass voice, on a record from ?about twenty years ago - who??? (Paul Robeson???)

Also - what does the song mean???

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 05 Feb 98 - 04:52 PM

By William Blake (1757-1827).

Incidentally, the famous setting is by Hubert Parry, an early-20th-century British composer.

Subject: Lyr Add: JERUSALEM (William Blake)
From: Bert
Date: 05 Feb 98 - 01:31 PM

And did those feet, in ancient times,
walk upon England's mountains green
and was the holy lamb of god
on England's pleasant pastures seen
and did the countenance divine
shine forth upon our clouded hills
and was Jerusalem builded here
among those dark satanic mills

Bring me my bow of burning gold
bring me my arrows of desire
bring me my spear, Oh clouds unfold
bring me my chariot of fire
I shall not cease from mental fight
nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
'till we have built Jerusalem
in England's green and pleasant land.

Subject: RE: Lyrics For
From: Bruce O.
Date: 05 Feb 98 - 12:24 PM

Probably not the right one from your description, but there is an English hymn of which short versions are still in some hymnals, "Jerusalem, my happy home, when will thy joys I see". Early copies and author (1585) are in my internet broadside index, item ZN1548.

Subject: Lyrics For
From:
Date: 05 Feb 98 - 12:09 PM

I am trying to obtain the full lyrics for the song I know as "Jerusalem". I am not certain if that is the correct title. It includes the line "..shall build Jerusalem, on England's green and pleasant land." Please e-mail me if anyone knows.