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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: black walnut Date: 28 Apr 03 - 04:16 PM That's not the point, folks. Of course many more people have died from many other things. The masks and rules and regulations surrounding SARS aren't for people who have died, but for those of us who have not. The issue is keeping it under control. It's easiest to eliminate it or control something like this in a country with facilities to manage quarantine. People used to laugh at worries about garbage and air and Great Lakes water quality too, back when something could have been done about it. It wasn't killing a lot of people, so it didn't seem to matter. Then it went out of control. I don't think it would hurt anyone to come to Toronto, as long as they are not at real risk of needing to go to into a SARS facility at some point, but I just don't care for the comparisons to car accidents and deaths from eating bad apples. In my humble opinion, ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: beadie Date: 28 Apr 03 - 12:29 PM WHO reports eight deaths from SARS in China yesterday. Of course, they don't tell you about the 12 (out of the approximately 1.5 billion residents) who died from slipping on piles of panda poop and hitting their head on a rock. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: GUEST Date: 27 Apr 03 - 01:08 PM Pears to be a little buggery and ass lickin goin on with the Newfie inbreds |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Apr 03 - 12:57 PM Dat's right, bye! An' I just heard dis from me son, Jimmy, in St. John's...he's got a SAR jaw and a SAR eye too. Seems he got in a punch-up at de bar last night wit 'tree guys from St. Pierre! Lard t'underin' Jaysus....she's gettin' dangerous out dere, byes! As for Orillia, half the people in town have colds...but I doubt that any of them have SARS. It's a good time to invest in Kleenex stocks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Cluin Date: 27 Apr 03 - 01:51 AM Dis just in... Dey's 2 cases SARS been found in Newfoundland. Seems one feller's got a SAR arse and t`other's got a SAR t'roat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Doug_Remley Date: 26 Apr 03 - 05:47 PM Sorry to interrupt people, but here's the Report Global Security got 22 March SLUG: 2-301126 Asia Pneumonia DATE: NOTE NUMBER: DATE=3/22/2003TYPE=CORRESPONDENT REPORTTITLE=ASIA PNEUMONIA NUMBER=22-301129BYLINE=KATHERINE MARIADATELINE=HONG KONGCONTENT=VOICED AT:INTRO: China's Minister of Health says doctors in southern China did not recognize that many pneumonia patients were suffering from a deadly new disease. The disease, now known as Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, could be linked to outbreaks in 13 countries as V-O-A's Katherine Maria reports.TEXT: China's Minister of Health Zhang Wenkang is admitting the spread of a new virus in China's southern Guangdong region might have gone unnoticed for several months. Mr. Zhang addressed the media on a rare visit to Hong Kong on Saturday./// ZHANG ACT IN MANDARIN EST & FADE /// He says that over the past two years in Guangdong, 800 out of five thousand pneumonia cases surveyed were considered atypical, but those cases were not the same as the cases in Hong Kong. He adds that while the recent pneumonia outbreak could be related to similar outbreaks overseas, southern China is not necessarily where the new virus originated. In China's Guangdong province, at least five people died last month in an outbreak that sickened three hundred. Since then, the capital city Beijing has reported more deaths from suspected SARS. China recently invited international experts to help trace the sickness, but some experts accuse China of doing too little, too late to prevent the spread of SARS. However, W-H-O is reporting progress in the diagnosis and treatment of SARS. Speaking alongside the Chinese Minister of Health on Saturday, a World Health Organization doctor says new laboratory studies reinforce theories that the virus is related to measles and mumps. Shigeru Omi is a medical expert with the W-H-O./// OMI ACT ///Just last night W-H-O announced that a laboratory has succeeded in growing what may be the infectious agent in cell culture. This is a major step toward the development of a diagnostic test. /// END ACT ///The disease starts with flu-like symptoms but quickly attacks a patient's respiratory system, say doctors.Hong Kong health authorities revealed last week that a visiting Guangdong doctor infected seven hotel guests and a local resident. Those cases then spread the disease in Hong Kong, Canada, Singapore and Vietnam. In the United States, the Centers for Disease Control said Friday that the number of suspected cases of SARS there has doubled since the beginning of the week. Hong Kong remains one of the worst hit cities. One more pneumonia patient died on Saturday bringing the death toll in the city to seven. Two-hundred-22 patients are being treated while 210 are confirmed SARS cases. And while seven patients have recovered, thirty-eight people remain in intensive care. The number of patients in Hanoi, many of them hospital staff, has climbed to at least sixty. The U-S State Department suspended travel by its officials and diplomats to Vietnam on Saturday, citing reduced availability of adequate medical facilities. (SIGNED)NEB/HK/KM/MH/MEM |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Peg Date: 26 Apr 03 - 12:08 PM That's "Captain Trips" Cluin!;) I found myself thinking the same thing actually...but I don't think we will find that this was a virus engineered by the US government. Still and all, China does have an enormous population so one wonders about the proposed efficacy of a virus that wipes out 6% of the population...but by that logic, some madman would just as likely have introduced it into India, or parts of Africa, or the USA for that matter... Captain Trips was an idea that turned into a catastrophe because of an accident...and fictional, to boot. But King was onto something way back then, when he posited a world in which the most likely source of Armageddon would be a bug created in a military laboratory for the purpose of killing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: GUEST,Cluin Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:51 PM Can "Captain Tripps" be far behind? ;) |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: GUEST Date: 25 Apr 03 - 04:08 PM Wall Street Journal - Friday 04/25/03 - SARS is believed to have mutated into multiple viral varients based on differing symptoms of Hong Kong cases. POLIO cases increased four fold. According to the US-CDC there were 1,920 confimed cases of polio were reported by laboratories in 2002, up from 483 the previous year. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:24 AM Hell, the gargler hasn't split in two, has he? Like some kind of amoeba reproducing itself... |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: catspaw49 Date: 25 Apr 03 - 04:26 AM Yeah, and you're spellin' still ain't for shit either Garg.......I thought you got a spell check but it's reassuring to know that some things never change.....like you and your stale bullshit.....and your underwear and socks............ Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:06 AM LaughKat- I know you believe you created "the catspaw miricle"....but physician ....you havn't healed yourself.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:03 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: catspaw49 Date: 24 Apr 03 - 10:35 PM Jeri, you are oh so right about hospitals. On the other hand you can avoid some things in hospitals because they tend to label everything. Like, I never go in one of them doors labeled "staff." Who needs that? At least they keep it in a room!!! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: katlaughing Date: 24 Apr 03 - 10:22 PM He's an osteopath, for starters, LH, that helps. Jeri, I'd heard it was easier in CHina for them to enforce quarantines because of their restrictive society, video cameras monitoring the streets, etc. to make sure people stayed put. Of course that's something we could never allow in our country unless it was part of the patriot act...:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Apr 03 - 08:00 PM Sounds like you found the right doctor, Kat. There definitely are some very good ones. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Jeri Date: 24 Apr 03 - 07:37 PM LH, hospitals are great places to catch stuff. I worked in them for about 18 years. I'd move, have colds off and on for about six months then went to 3 or 4 times a year until I went somewhere else, then it would all happen again. I've been taking echinacia (off and on) since last Nov, and the last cold I had was in Oct. (First winter I can remember in my life with no cold.) I don't know if it's the echinacia or I've been lucky, but it sure isn't hurting anything! By the way, I hope I'm wrong about the 'tip of the iceberg' thing. It's mainly my cynicism about human nature that makes me believe attempts at quarantine aren't going to be as effective as they should be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: katlaughing Date: 24 Apr 03 - 07:18 PM ON the other hand, LH, there are doctors like mine, who may be members of the AMA, who does his damnedest to keep me out of the hospital and off prescription drugs! |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Apr 03 - 07:15 PM "Stay out of the hospitals?" That's what I normally do. It has been working great so far, but I would not claim it as an infallible method, necessarily. I generally avoid doctors, along much the same line of reasoning...but make exceptions to that if absolutely necessary. I generally avoid vacinnations and prescription drugs, again, along the same line of reasoning. (Sort of like avoiding cigarettes and alcoholism and gambling.) The A.M.A. is really troubled by people like me. We're bad for business. By the way, it's just a cold (what I've got). On the scale of 1 to 10 (10 being worst) I'd give it about a 5. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Jeri Date: 24 Apr 03 - 05:18 PM Acute doesn't have anything to do with severity, although it sounds like it should. It means the disease/condition isn't a recurring one. The opposite of 'acute' is 'chronic' - something that occurs repeatedly. A cold is acute (but usually not severe), allergies are chronic; a sprain is acute, osteoarthritis is chronic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Apr 03 - 04:19 PM That set of symptoms Black Walnut gave us (see below) - they sound pretty like normal slightly-under-the-weather health to me. If everyone who feels like that assumes they've got SARS and presses the panic button, the statistics will go through the roof. I'd take it that whoever produced that list meant was, if you've any reason to think you've been in contact with someone who's got it, those are the things to watch out for. I was much more reassured by that second bit: "SARS feels VERY severe and acute when you get it...like being hit by a MAC truck, like you'll never breathe again." Though that could equally apply to a bad dose of flu. But as springhopper points out, if/when it hits places in Africa's famine belt, God help them. Or Iraq. The flu epidemic at the end of the Great War killed more people than the war itself, they say - and that was very largely because millions of people were so worn out and under-nourished, and their immune system had been shot to hell. (Or as they'd have said in those days "their resistance was low"). "Symptoms of SARS: Fever- a fever (measured temperature greater than 100.4°F [>38.0°C]) Headaches General feeling of discomfort Body aches mild respiratory symptoms and a dry, nonproductive cough" |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: black walnut Date: 24 Apr 03 - 03:31 PM More good questions. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Ebbie Date: 24 Apr 03 - 01:23 PM One thing I never expected to hear in my life is "Stay out of the hospitals" but that is what spokespersons are saying. Makes me wonder: #1- If I need surgery, where else do I go? #2- If my husband/wife/child/parent/loved one needs surgery or has a heart attack or is in an auto accident, etc, etc, shouldn't I be with them? #3- How do hospital personnel feel about this admonition? #4- And don't they ever go home? #5- How long is this directive supposed to be in force? #6- By this logic, they should send everyone home and close the doors of each hospital; maybe then the phenomenon will disappear. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Cluin Date: 24 Apr 03 - 01:13 PM 1. bad luck. 2. severe: harsh, extreme acute: sharp, less than 90º, not obtuse, not "round at the free end" |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: black walnut Date: 24 Apr 03 - 12:37 PM I can't wait to hear the answers. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: GUEST,pdc Date: 24 Apr 03 - 12:33 PM Two questions: Can anyone imagine/understand why Canada has this problem and not the US? Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome: what's the difference between severe and acute? |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: black walnut Date: 24 Apr 03 - 11:55 AM My personal feeling is that if you don't overblow it somewhat in the media, you won't get people to take this seriously and to stay in quarantine for the full length of time required. I'd like us to keep this one from spreading. There are a lot of nurses and doctors working very hard to keep it that way, and I don't want to minimize their huge efforts by treating this thing too lightly. They are putting their lives and their families' lives on the line for us. They are working long hours under very difficult conditions. They are covering up and still getting the virus. Let's keep the physical impact of this illness in special hospital units, where it belongs, not out and about in the neighbourhoods. It's terrible when and if schools and nursing homes and other community gathering places get shut down because someone breaks quarantine. I truly don't think that Toronto is a place to be shunning right now. I think we're doing the job very well at containing SARS. If the death rate is low thus far, let's rejoice, but let's not say that people with symptoms or in contact with them can just go wherever they want whenever they want to. I don't believe there is any real danger at this point to the public in normal situations. I am not afraid to go on the subway or to the mall or to a concert or restaurant or movie. I would be hesitant to go into a hospital treating SARS, though. Does it spread easily? I was told that my friend's father who died of SARS got it just by lying in a bed near to someone with SARS (they were treating it at first as TB) for about 1/2 in the same hospital room. The friend's father did not have low immunity at the time...he was in for a heart condition. He got it within 1/2 hour, then died from it, and soon afterwared, so did his wife. That's sounds pretty contagious and serious to me. I certainly don't think the way things stand now is worth troubling a whole city's and country's economy over, by shutting us down to visitors. I thank the medics for doing their darndest to keep us (ALL of us, not just those of us here in Toronto) safe from SARS. I hope the federal government will pour down financial rain upon our city. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Peg Date: 24 Apr 03 - 10:57 AM Those are some good links at the Guardian site, thanks for pointing that out, Burke. Theer is at least one interesting editorial that views this all as so much panic-mongering...but then again that was written a couple of weeks ago. Things do seem to be escalating. I still think the media is overdoing it, and that this is comparable to your oridnary flu epidemic in terms of mortality numbers, but perhaps the rate/percentage of infection _is_ something to be wary of. I hope Jeri and kat and others who seem to think this is the "tip of the iceberg" turn out to be wrong, but I worry they may be right, after all...I am really going back and forth on this one now... People who are, like me, sick of media fear-mongering that seems to get worse every day may well be ignoring this so as to feel in some control over their lives...problem is, forewarned is forearmed ony works if one really does think ahead and act quickly...are we going back to the days of hoarding antibiotics? (not that there's any proof they work against this) In fact, we do have some isolated cases of infection in the Boston area (first showed up at a daycare center in Newton, I believe, after one child returned from a visit to China); and near the beginning of the news coverage of SARS when it was still confined to Asia, a rumor started that there had been cases discovered in Boston's Chinatown (the media was suggesting at the time that travel would be a likely mode of spreading the disease to other parts of the world); the Boston Globe ran an article recently on how this rumor, even though it was totally unfounded, has all but decimated the restraurant trade in that neighborhood (around the corner from where I teach at Emerson). Now it turns out the same sort of rumor has affected London's Chinatown... Best advice the public can be given now: stay calm and take care of yourself better than usual. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Little Hawk Date: 24 Apr 03 - 09:30 AM I see it pretty well the way you do, Peter. Check into the statistics for the influenza outbreak after the First World War too. This SARS thing is a flyspeck compared to that so far. We shall see how it goes. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Peter T. Date: 24 Apr 03 - 09:08 AM Hopelessly overblown -- the plague of fear, rumour, ignorance (check out Defoe's Journal of the Plague Year for early enlightenment).I would hate to be running a hotel or convention booking office in Toronto. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: black walnut Date: 24 Apr 03 - 07:44 AM I think it's important to know the symptoms of SARS so that you don't start questioning every cold or sinus headache or cough. "Symptoms of SARS: Fever- a fever (measured temperature greater than 100.4°F [>38.0°C]) Headaches General feeling of discomfort Body aches mild respiratory symptoms and a dry, nonproductive cough" I've heard that SARS feels VERY severe and acute when you get it...like being hit by a MAC truck, like you'll never breathe again. And some people never do. There are special places to go in Toronto for diagnosis. But if you're like Andy Barrie (CBC radio), you could end up sitting on a bench outside in the rain for 3 hours waiting to be seen at a SARS clinic - the clinic he went to doesn't have an indoor waiting area (that may be the norm, I don't know). Andy said that if he didn't have pnemonia going into this, he probably did after sitting out there on that bench. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Apr 03 - 11:34 PM Cluin - I was going by the newspaper headlines, which I keep an eye on regularly. SARS has replaced the War in Iraq as the leading headline subject, ever since Saddam's statue was toppled in Baghdad (that being the entertainment climax of the War in Iraq miniseries...). I occasionally see some TV one way or another, but I don't own one, and I don't seek it out, generally speaking. I'd rather Mudcat. It's more creative, I think. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: harpgirl Date: 23 Apr 03 - 10:11 PM ...I'm afraid that when it hits the third world countries such as Africa, we will see greater mortality rates...I agree with Jeri. It is a nasty virus and it KILLS people, but influenza kills people as well... |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Cluin Date: 23 Apr 03 - 09:34 PM LH, "This is an odd situation. I'm puzzled as to why the media are covering it in such a way as to induce a growing panic in the general population worldwide...unless they are just doing their usual "flog the leading story as long as it gets good ratings" bit, now that the Iraq war "miniseries" is pretty well over..." You've stated many times that you don't watch TV. If you did you'd know that SARS has been leading the news in the Canadian media for about a month now. It was the top story more often than not during the height of the war. Of course, it was never mentioned on CNN at all. That network had such tunnel vision, while still reporting nothing important about the war, just reinforced my already low opinion of the quality of their "journalism". And Rick, no, nobody really knows what to do about the situation, other than what is already being done. But Wacky Mel's attitude doesn't help (does it ever?). If nothing else, our politicians can be good for a real laugh sometimes. I'll even miss ol' Jean when he's gone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Burke Date: 23 Apr 03 - 08:40 PM I've been cruising around the web reading articles & trying to collect information. The Guardian has a nice Collection of Links. From there I found several good articles in Time. Especially this one The Cycle of Death. It helped me see much better why early response is so necessary to limit spread of a virus like this. The way to get people to be careful about the contacts that spread it, is to get them worried. Unfortunately it takes a fair amount of 'the sky is falling' to get our attention, including mine. If the spread is stopped in Toronto, some of the measures taken will seem to have been overdone. OTOH China did not react early & has even lied, helping to make the spread faster & more widespead in that country. We can see what inaction & delay will do, overreaction may be the better choice right now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Jeri Date: 23 Apr 03 - 08:05 PM I don't believe the media is hyping this too much. So far, from the statistics the World Health Organisation has compiled (here), out of 2283 cases for which the outcome is known, 251 people have died. This is a mortality rate of 11%, and I believe quite a few of the people who've died have been adults with healthy immune systems. Although SARS doesn't seem to be THAT contagious, it IS that deadly. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we may be seeing just the beginning. People ignore quarantine, people are afraid so they may not seek treatment even when the think they might have it, and people may be contagious before they get sick enough to think it's reasonable to seek treatment. Those folks hang around with other folks and they travel. There's a healthy balance though, somewhere between apathy or denial and panic. I'm not ready to turn into a complete hermit just yet. The best bet is to keep up on what's happening, learn about the symptoms and how to protect ourselves without freaking out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Apr 03 - 07:56 PM Very good lyric, McGrath. Well done. Judging by how you describe the flu, I don't think I've had it since the 70's, but I have had a fair number of colds here and there. I find the best way to avoid them is to do a fair bit of walking outside every day in the winter, and breathe lots of fresh air...but my own laziness defeats the program sometimes, unfortunately. One of the primary causes of winter illness is not getting enough fresh air, and breathing stale air inside buildings all day. - LH |
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Subject: Lyr Add: The Millennium Flu From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 23 Apr 03 - 07:28 PM "...unless they are just doing their usual 'flog the leading story as long as it gets good ratings' bit" - got it in one I'd saw Little Hawk. It'd be wrong to blame the reporters and such, they're just the footsoldiers. It's the proprietors and the advertisers. Don't care who they hurt. Don't knock flu-shots. I had a really unpleasant dose of flu a couple of years ago, and since then had a flu shot, and it hasn't recurred. People always tend to say "flu" when they really mean a bad cold, bu it ain't the same animal at all. Even when it's not life threatening, you sill feel like you are dying. Typically I wrote a song about it - The Millennium Flu. So I may as well put it here, to subvert the distinction between music threads and non-music threads: a G They call it the flu, but you don't fly, F E just hang around, and wait to die - a G it seems like time's just crawling by F E a Millenium Flu, it's got to you. C G When your body aches, your mouth is dry, F E you cry for help, there's no reply, F G you pray to live, but you can't think why - F E a Millenium Flu, it's got to you. F G C a Now my head is so dizzy and my mind is confused F G C G my body feels so shaken and so worn out and used F G like I'd been drinking, getting stinking, C and I just couldn't stop, F C G C G all the perils of the bar-room - and I'd not had a drop. F G C Well you may talk about the future, try to get me enthused F G C G but the dreams I'm having lately do not leave me amused - F G C a like, I've been there, and I've seen there, and I've been disabused. F a F G C Nothing straightens out your notions like Millennium Flu. F G Yes, you can straighten out your notions C a while you're knocking back the potions F G as you go through the emotions a G C of Millennium Flu. They call it the flu, but you don't fly, just hang around, and wait to die, it feels like time's just crawling by - Millennium Flu, it's got to you. When your body aches, your mouth is dry,. you cry for help, there's no reply, you pray to live, but you can't think why - Millennium Flu, it's got to you. Well I was standing on this palace, Oh so far from my home, and someone said they call this the Millenium Dome. We were up there, we were stuck there, with the world all around, but I couldn't help but wonder, "Where's the way to get down?" Well you may talk about the future, try to get me enthused but the dreams I'm having lately seem to leave me bemused - like, I've been there, and I've seen there, and I've been disabused. Nothing straightens out your notions like Millennium Flu. Yes, you can straighten out your notions while you're knocking back the potions as you go through the emotions of Millennium Flu. They call it the flu, but you don't fly, just hang around, and wait to die, it feels like time's just crawling by - Millennium Flu, it's got to you. When your body aches, your mouth is dry, you cry for help, there's no reply, you pray to live, but you can't think why - Millennium Flu, it's got to you. Then we were out there on the ocean with the stars up above, and someone started talking of a summer of love. we were rolling, we were strolling, and what more could be said - then I got a sinking feeling, there's an iceberg ahead. Sure there's no need for to panic, when you're safe on the Titanic on a slowly tilting planet trying to stand on its head. Well you may talk about the future, try to get me enthused but the dreams I'm having lately do not leave me amused - like, I've been there, and I've seen there, and I've been disabused. Nothing straightens out your notions like Millennium Flu. Yes, you can straighten out your notions while you're knocking back the potions as you go through the emotions of Millennium Flu. They call it the flu, but you don't fly, just hang around, and wait to die - it seems like time's just crawling by. Millennium flu, it's got to you. When your body aches, your mouth is dry, you cry for help, there's no reply, you pray to live, but you can't think why - Millennium Flu, it's got to you. January 1st 1999 It was my prediction about the 21st century - and it seesm depressingly accurate so far. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Apr 03 - 07:24 PM Yeah, well, I suppose... I know several other people who've got colds right now too. It's not surprising, given the lousy weather we've had this spring. It was snowing again last night! (just a few random flakes drifting down for a short while) It's kind of hard on the system when it keeps changing back and forth between winter and spring. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: harpgirl Date: 23 Apr 03 - 07:18 PM LH you better make sure you don't have SARS harpy |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Apr 03 - 07:07 PM This is an odd situation. I'm puzzled as to why the media are covering it in such a way as to induce a growing panic in the general population worldwide...unless they are just doing their usual "flog the leading story as long as it gets good ratings" bit, now that the Iraq war "miniseries" is pretty well over... As for me, I've had a rotten cold with some fevers for the last 5 days, but I am on the mend. I don't think it's SARS, I think it's just a cold, but who knows? I don't think I've lost any weight. In another aside I might mention this: I never get flu shots...and I virtually never get the flu either. I think flu shots are a crock. But if they make you feel safer, by all means get them. I feel safer just keeping my immune system strong by using common sense. I'll tell you one thing, Chinese restaurants in Toronto must be taking a beating these days. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Rick Fielding Date: 23 Apr 03 - 05:16 PM Ahhah, so you watched (or heard) that too Cluin? Mel, was apoplectic, and not only because he apparently had never heard of either Geneva, the WHO or the centre for Disease Control. This is doing SERIOUS DAMAGE to Toronto on a lot of levels. I don't think Mel has a clue what to do. I don't. Do you? The hospitals are doing their best, but I think they're as confused as anyone. It's not a good time. Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Cluin Date: 23 Apr 03 - 04:36 PM Well, the WHO (World Health Organization) has just come out with an advisory that all but essential travel to Toronto (in addition to certain provinces in China) be cancelled. T.O. Mayor Mel Lastman is spitting mad.... officially, that is... everybody in Ontario knows he is just plain mad anyway. Call me crazy too, but I think there is a teeny bit more to the SARS threat than just media-hype, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: katlaughing Date: 23 Apr 03 - 04:16 PM It'll be another OJ, Peg, he'll get off, even though everyone will know he did it. They even arrested him while he was driving! Ironic, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Peg Date: 23 Apr 03 - 12:19 PM Burke; thanks for that clarification. I have heard so much conflicting information about this is recent weeks I can't remember the details of it all. I see your point on how it is not wise to equate this with flu. My main reasons for using a comparison to influenza, even though these may not be similar afflictions, is in terms of what I see as the media panic surrounding SARS. My point was, the mortality from flu each year is probably greater, and like SARS affects those with compromised immunity more seriously than others, but for some reason this epidemic is being seen as far more serious. And i think par of that has to do with recent tendencies in the media to paint everything (except the casualties of the war oddly enough) with extreme colors in order to promulgate extreem panic and fear. I have not seen ONE story on SARS on the internet or TV news in which at least one picture of someone wearing a surgical mask was not prominently featured. It seems if we go more than a week without something out there to fear, the media feel they arent dying their jobs. for example: Before SARS became an international problem, there were ridiculous headline stories trying to link the hijacker of the Achille Lauro to "terrorism in Iraq" simply because he'd been found there 18 years fater this crime was committed. Every headline had "terrorist" and "Iraq" in it. That may seem obvious, but in subtle ways these headlines work on our psyches and the effect is one of increasingly xenophobic paranoia, and the instilling of fear in places it did not exist before. Words like "terror", "epidemic", "nukes", "victims", etc. are all used in ways to play upon our emotions, even when such loaded words are not appropriate or even accurate. I am watching the coverage of the Laci Peterson case; it does seem likely that her husband did it, but the way the news is covering this, they have already convicted him! I have seen a dozen different headlines mentioning the death penalty. The guy isn't even scheduled for a hearing yet! Much less been found guilty by a jury. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Burke Date: 23 Apr 03 - 10:17 AM Peg, SARS is a virus. Specifically according to the CDC: Scientists at CDC and other laboratories have detected a previously unrecognized coronavirus in patients with SARS. The new coronavirus is the leading hypothesis for the cause of SARS, however, other viruses are still under investigation as potential causes. Admittedly from a distance, I have been trying to find the real information. It seems to me that the media swings between over-hype and possibly false assurances. It's not safe to travel to Toronto one moment & no need to cancel that conference the next. CDC SARS information is constantly being updated with the latest information. I think comparisons to influenza are useful simply because that's the main reference we have for getting a handle on it. It strikes me that saying one is worse than the other is not very helpful just now. I don't for one minute believe the statistics coming from China. I think it is being way under recognized & as a consequence under reported. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: gnu Date: 23 Apr 03 - 06:06 AM Sad to hear about your loved ones and your woes BW. I wish Canada could learn from the US as to how to combat this problem. They have more than ten times the travellers, business or otherwise, that we have to the source countries, but have not experienced the rate of infection or death that we have. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: mouldy Date: 23 Apr 03 - 04:36 AM My other half has just returned to Shenyang in NE China. (About an hour's flight E of Beijing). He was home from 11th April until 21st April, which covers the 10 day incubation period of SARS. He (and us) is ok. He decided to get a couple of facemasks for his return and could not get hold of any. Boots the Chemists said that they could usually get them, had sold out, and had experienced warehouse problems so their deliveries weren't turning up. He was hoping that SAS airlines would hand them out to their travellers, as BA were reported to be doing. The sudden "increase" in the reported cases in China didn't surprise him as he says the government usually lie about most things. He said the usual pattern was being followed - somebody got the sack! Andrea |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: Peg Date: 23 Apr 03 - 02:12 AM black walnut, sorry to hear about your loved ones. This disease does have greater danger for anyone with lowered immunity (the elderly or already sick, etc.), but still the mortality rate is a small percentage of the total, much smaller than influenza as has been pointed out. Here's hoping your loved ones get well soon, and you get to see them, too. I am still tending to think there is an awful lot of panic being promulgated by the media with this...it sounds to me like the numbers are not dissimilar to your average flu outbreak, something we all await with trepidation each year because of mutation of viruses (I know, I know, this isn't a virus). The latest update I just heard on the news is that this is droplet-borne, not airborne...and so not as communicable as the flu. So standing next to someone is not risky unless they sneeze or cough, or you touch them..and hand washing is still a good idea. Basic cold and flu season caution. Has anyone heard what antibioitcs, if any, are effective? I am also curious to know if anyone has tried melaleuca/tea tree to prevent infection...or colloidal silver (both of these were the buzz in alternative medicine circles when everyone was panicking about anthrax)...and if so if this information has reached the medical establishment yet... |
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Subject: RE: BS: SARS From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 03 - 07:13 PM From today's Financial Times of London
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