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BS: One Thousand Gone
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: SINSULL Date: 08 Sep 04 - 09:42 PM "I say Iraq had everything to do with terrorism even if Saddam cannot be directly tied to 9/11. Read the report of the 911 commission if you haven't already, and I question that you have. There is ample proof presented in that report that Saddam's representatives met with Al Quieda members, that one of OBL's chief aides recovered in Iraq after being injured, that Saddam paid the families of suicide bombers $25,000 in rewards for their loved ones strapping on bombs and blowing up innocent people, that there were Al Quieda training camps in Iraq, etc. etc. etc." OK Doug. So why have we not invaded Saudi Arabia? The bringing down of the World Trade Center which precipitated the invasion of Iraq was carried out by mostly Saudis. Osama Bin Laden is Saudi. |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: GUEST,GROK Date: 08 Sep 04 - 08:25 PM And another thing: this propensity that seems to have grown during the history of human conflit to call children 'soldiers' does not make them any less children when they are shot or maimed. The world should not be doing this to its kids. Period. And that means your part of the world, too, Doug. |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: GUEST,GROK Date: 08 Sep 04 - 05:59 PM " . . . you still have not grasped that this is a global war we are in." Doug, I don't recall anyone appointing the USA to be the cops of the world. My country contributed to the Gulf War because it was UN sanctioned. This war is US sanctioned. That is why my country is not helping. You have a very limited view of what the conflict there is about. It is about strategic and tactical placement for the future siezure of oil fields. Little more, little less. This is a global war that the US is in. Many good countries don't see things your way Doug. Many. Ebbie, thank you for starting this thread. I really had no idea the numbers were so high. We don't hear too much about the dead kids, and we hear nothing about the wounded. And we hear little about dead Iraqis either. It's about time we at least heard. Now, I don't doubt some AH will be quoting Napoleon and his "ya can't make omelets without cracking eggs" bullshit. They ain't eggs; they're humans. GROK |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: George Papavgeris Date: 08 Sep 04 - 05:46 PM Let it be as you say, DougR - I won't argue. Let us each see what we see. But you still haven't answered my question: Are we better off for those sacrifices? Is the world a better, safer place? GWB has declared the objective reached - what have we reach? Or rather, what will we reap? |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: DougR Date: 08 Sep 04 - 05:36 PM SRS: your post would have been more meaningful had you added, "IMO." I say Iraq had everything to do with terrorism even if Saddam cannot be directly tied to 9/11. Read the report of the 911 commission if you haven't already, and I question that you have. There is ample proof presented in that report that Saddam's representatives met with Al Quieda members, that one of OBL's chief aides recovered in Iraq after being injured, that Saddam paid the families of suicide bombers $25,000 in rewards for their loved ones strapping on bombs and blowing up innocent people, that there were Al Quieda training camps in Iraq, etc. etc. etc. The fact that many of you limit terrorist attacks to 9/11 seems to me to be ample proof that you still have not grasped that this is a global war we are in. It's as though 9/11 was the very first time the U. S. was attacked by AQ. Give me a break. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: GUEST,amergin Date: 08 Sep 04 - 05:18 PM Oh and one more thing, it is more disgraceful, more distasteful, more dishonourable, to maintain the lie of why our young men and women are dying and coming home with body parts missing or their minds shattered, or just changed in unseen ways, than it is to tell the truth of why they suffer so. To hide these truths in the shadows is always shameful and it brings unwarranted shame to those who have suffered so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: GUEST,amergin Date: 08 Sep 04 - 05:15 PM DougR, how come is it that more and more soldiers that have been sent over there are becoming angry at your favourite administration? If they were fighting for our freedom (instead of Bush's greedom) how come they are not happy to do their duty for their country? Why are they becoming so disillusioned? |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: George Papavgeris Date: 08 Sep 04 - 05:06 PM Doug R, you cause me to come out of my self-imposed silence with your last post. 1000+ dead further down the line - and is American freedom any more secure today? Has the threat to America disappeared, or has it grown? And has the supply of oil been secured, or has it skyrocketed to past 40 dollars a barrel? What on earth HAS been achieved for the loss of those 1000+ lives? Or would we have been better off having those thousand-plus brothers and sisters alive today? |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 04 - 03:52 PM miasma of denigration and recrimination Great turn of phrase, pal. But the only recrimination I offer is that against unilateral destruction of human life. And lying to those who place their trust in you. Maybe those things are okay with you. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: Ebbie Date: 08 Sep 04 - 03:19 PM "They deserve more respect than being used by a bunch of hate mongers to prove their point of view. Pathetic." (Emphasis mine EB) Publishing a litany of easily obtained facts is not hate mongering, DougR, convenient as it may be to ignore those facts. There is not one thing nonfactual in that list. To object to the airing of those facts borders on the hysterical, imo. (Guest, you are right about the title of the thread. I should have alluded to the war.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Sep 04 - 03:03 PM DougR,
This is a patent lie. It's the Bush party line, and has no resemblance to fact. These lives in IRAQ weren't lost for any American freedom at all. They were lost because of Dubya's ego. He was ABLE to send troops and fight a war--so he did. His act is the most morally bankrupt act anyone in his position can do. How many times must you be told that Iraq had nothing to do with the destruction of the World Trade Center? And the Afghans didn't have anything to do with it either, but it was convenient for Dubya to blow them to hell because bin Laden was in their midst. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: GUEST Date: 08 Sep 04 - 02:53 PM I agree with you DougR, that we are in Iraq for what lays buried there. But it isn't the victims of Saddam Hussein's bloody reign. We're there for the oil. |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: DougR Date: 08 Sep 04 - 02:41 PM And not one ounce of sympathy expressed for the hundreds of thousands Saddam buried in mass graves, right. Those young people are in Iraq and Afghanstan fitting for YOUR friggin' freedom! They deserve more respect than being used by a bunch of hate mongers to prove their point of view. Pathetic. Amos: typical. Disagree with a point of view, personally attack the one who disagrees. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: GUEST Date: 08 Sep 04 - 02:40 PM I'd like to cast a vote against poetic, metaphoric thread titles. Had the same problem with the Russian school massacre thread title. Went to look for a thread on it, couldn't find one. Could we please wax poetic in the opening message of the thread, rather than obscure the subject by doing it in the thread title? Back to your local programming now... |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: saulgoldie Date: 08 Sep 04 - 12:47 PM Thanks for posting this so very sad note, Ebbie. We need these reminders to spur us to action and to help us make sure to not repeat our mistakes. I think I will copy this into constituent letters to my federal representatives. |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: GUEST,Boab Date: 08 Sep 04 - 02:50 AM Aye--a thousand young men and women gone---the FIRST thousand, it tragically seems. If the American public are, indeed so evenly divided between G.W.B. and his challenger, Kerry, then the world is in deadly danger of careering to continuing and increasing catastrophe. Many thousands more are bound to die in this "war on terror". If Bush should win, continuing slaughter seems inevitable. The great pity is that his opponent is playing up his own part in an old--and equally pointless---war. Pity the Americans [and the World] that this most powerful nation can only bring forward two such unworthy and dangerous men to represent them on the World stage. In the absence of a truly viable and decent alternative, I am hoping for a Kerry victory; but he is the lesser of two evils as far as I can see. I hope, for the sake of the world and its children, that I am misjudging the man. |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 04 - 01:15 AM Nope, it ain't over yet. It won't even be over when the last American soldier leaves Iraq, I figure. There'll probably be more fighting between Sunnis, Shiites, Kurds, etc, for some time after that. And none of it needed to happen at all. But there's oil there. Lots of it. Oil is worth far more than a thousand American lives (or 10,000 Iraqui lives) to the planners of this war. |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 08 Sep 04 - 12:12 AM I usually stay out of political threads as they often turn nasty, but, your missing the point GUEST, Ebbie, or anyone else, is not celebrating the figures, they are making the point that over 1,000 young american men are dead. Yet, the fighting continues, and as stated they have found no weapons of mas distruction, and UK politicians have admitted that they probably never will. [We in the UK were told, that Saddam could launch an attack on us within 45 minutes]. A figure I find sad is the 20,000 injured, [my own father was sent home injured from the Aden conflict whilst serving in the Brittish Army, he never recovered from this, and was disabled for the rest of his life]. |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: mack/misophist Date: 07 Sep 04 - 11:41 PM Dear Guest, You said: " your cause, which SHOULD be the safety of the people of this country and the extension of democratic principles to the suffering people of Iraq.", and you were correct in fact and utterly wrong in intent. Try to work on that. We're in Iraq because somebody lied to the world. The people of Iraq are not substantially better off now than they were under Sadam, and more have died than would have otherwise. There are no clear signs of impending improvement. How can you approve of this? |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: Bobert Date: 07 Sep 04 - 11:19 PM Well, as we reflect on those folks, mostly nothing more than kids, I think it appropriate to reflect on the deaths of contract workers who oin wars past would have been in uniform... ...but it doesn't stop there. How about the 20,000 seriously injured US soldiers, amny of whom will be disabled for life and... ...the unknown number of Iragi civilian women, kids and old folks who have also died... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: GUEST Date: 07 Sep 04 - 11:08 PM I was going to suggest you name this thread WHINERS CORNER but that title is taken. Sorry. Capitalizing on a milestone of death at the same time as belittling the reasons our young men and women are there, and deliberately framing the facts to suit your own agenda (or that of the person you are quoting without atribution) is not a way to do credit to your cause, which SHOULD be the safety of the people of this country and the extension of democratic principles to the suffering people of Iraq. I know I'm not going along with the purpose of this thread, which is to encourage us all to flagellate ourselves in a miasma of denigration and recrimination, but hell, you're already primed for disappointment, so deal. One thing I think you will agree on: IT AIN'T OVER YET |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: katlaughing Date: 07 Sep 04 - 11:05 PM (Speechless with grief, rage, and fear that it will continue...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: Bill D Date: 07 Sep 04 - 10:58 PM " I wonder if they feel proud tonight in Washington?" when you have made THAT big of a blunder, you simply lie to yourself so you can keep lying to others about it. The big lie you tell everyone, including yourself, is "The world is safer with Saddam out of power" It sounds good, it rings of a certain almost truth, and it avoids saying that getting Saddam out of power has caused more troubles than it solved! |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: Amos Date: 07 Sep 04 - 10:45 PM Doug R -- You want some facts? Count 'em up, pal. You wonder why I ask how you can sleep at night? Count 'em up. You disdainfully dismiss my description of Bush as a murderer? Can you count that high? I have every respect for your courage, but your convictions are bewildering and off-kilter to me. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: GUEST,GROK Date: 07 Sep 04 - 09:25 PM Ebbie, I stared at the post for two minutes. I can't think of a single thing to say. I wonder if they feel proud tonight in Washington? |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: GUEST,GROK Date: 07 Sep 04 - 09:23 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: One Thousand Gone From: Ebbie Date: 07 Sep 04 - 09:21 PM Sorry- I should have made it clear that I am quoting. |
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Subject: BS: One Thousand Gone From: Ebbie Date: 07 Sep 04 - 09:19 PM More at http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/090804A.shtml Wednesday 08 September 2004 On the day Operation Iraqi Freedom suffered the 1,000th death of a United States soldier, some quick numbers are in order: 1,095 days since the attacks of September 11; 538 days since the invasion and occupation of Iraq; 1,001 American soldiers dead in Iraq; 1,132 total Coalition soldiers dead in Iraq; More than 20,000 'medical evacuations' of American soldiers from Iraq; More than 10,000 civilians dead in Iraq; 0 weapons of mass destruction; 0 democratic elections in Iraq; 0 connections between Iraq and the attacks of September 11; 0 captures of Osama bin Laden, in Iraq or anywhere else; $1.7 trillion to be spent on Iraq in the next decade, according to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences report by the Committee on International Security Studies (CISS). |
