BS: Affirmative Action?

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 09:03 AM

America should always remain a level playing field

Precisely the point. It never was, and is not now, a "level playing field".

Idiosyncratic personal reminiscences notwithstanding.


If it's good enough for sports, then why not...

Because professional sport has devolved into a morally bankrupt, drug-sodden, corrupt cash cow for Bobert's "Boss Hogg". And because the "sport = life" analogy is infantile nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 08:31 AM

Just a thought..........

The big three sports in the USA are baseball, football, and basketball. I don't see any racial inequality there. Those teams are created from choosing the best candidates available for the owners to choose from. If it's good enough for sports, then why not educational and corporate America? Aren't many sports franchises owned by rich, powerful white men?

Any thoughts?




Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: GUEST,Not Bill ... but best wishes anyhow
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 07:36 AM

Read it.

The thread started out well, but degenerated into some sort of Darwinian dissertation.

Race and religion were always used to keep the poorer classes divided.
I'm certain there are more underpriviliged 'minorities' than there are 'white' underpriviliged, but Jeep man's experience shows what can happen in these times.

I think the underpriviliged, no matter which 'race' they belong to, should be the focus of such a program.

The situation should never have to be addressed, if the truths are to be held as self-evident

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: John Hardly
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 06:55 AM

here

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: GUEST,Not Bill ... but best wishes anyhow
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 05:28 AM

From what I can glean from all of this, then, is that there are no underpriviliged white folks, out there.

If Affirmative Action is only directed towards minorities, then (technically) it is discriminatory.

Should it not be made a 'class' issue?

That would level the field out a bit better, as far as I can see it

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: GUEST,guest from NW
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 03:10 AM

"America should always remain a level playing field"

in your second post you illustrated how there was not a level playing field. has there ever been? ask blacks, women, native americans. if you are a white male you've already got your "affirmative action". artbrooks gave a clear, good answer to a loaded question. good on ya.

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 03:03 AM

"The difference between this program and Affirmative Action is that little phrase; "Paid Their Dues" Jeep"

ever hear about slavery, jeep?

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Mar 05 - 02:26 AM

Jeep man - If you are a white male, this very fact gives you the advantage over any other group. Affirmative Action levels the playing field.

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: Jeep man
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 11:56 PM

One last thought.

When I was young, there were very few jobs in my home. The best paying with most benefits was the US.Post Office.

I took all the tests and scored very high. I was on the list to get a job as Clerk/carrier.

However I never got a job because Veterans were given a 10 point advantage. I couldn,t score high enough to outpace the many veterans applying for Federal jobs.

I really didn't begrudge them their advantage. The vets had paid their dues. This is a leg up for them and I didn't get sore.

The difference between this program and Affirmative Action is that little phrase; "Paid Their Dues" Jeep

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 11:52 PM

Affirmative action does not, and never was intended to, mean giving one group preferential treatment over another. It means taking action to make sure that opportunities exist for people to compete rather than being shut out before they have a chance to start. It can mean, for example, recruiting for a vacant job in a "minority" newspaper in addition to the "regular" media or doing outreach in a predominately minority school to assure that students know about the availability of jobs. Quotas are another thing entirely, and so are hiring preferences. These have nothing to do with affirmative action and are, IMHO, wrong.

The same principles should apply to admission to higher education. That is, admission standards should be the same for everyone, as should be academic expectations, but affirmative action implies making special effort to attract and, as needed, pay for minority students.

BTW, I worked in affirmative employment for over 20 years, for the Federal (US) government (which is hardly the ogre that Bobert thinks it is) and I watched the workplace change tremendously over that time because of the positive efforts made by the government as an employer.

To address the three rather loaded choices given above:
It helps minorities get the equality they deserve. Doesn't everybody "deserve" an equal opportunity to demonstrate that they can do a job, without automatically being excluded because they aren't given a chance, often by simply not knowing that a job exists?

It hurts minorities by giving others the feeling of special treatment to minorities over caucasions. Well, besides the fact that some "minorities" who have been the targets of affirmative action programs are Caucasians, such as many Hispanics and the majority of America's working women, I don't think this is at all accurate. Affirmative action provides an individual with the chance to compete fairly, and I have rarely encountered a situation in which the best person for the job wasn't hired, regardless of his (or her) "minority" status, and most of the other applicants didn't recognize that the person hired was the best candidate.

It's purely a political idea thought up to pander for the votes of minorities. This is simple nonsense.

Affirmative action is the reason that my last boss, before I retired, was a woman and her boss was a Hispanic man. They were given opportunities to compete which did not exist 20 years before, when every senior manager was a white man, and they rose to the level in the organization that their personal talents permitted.

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: Jeep man
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 11:46 PM

Pure and simple, Reverse Discrimination. If a man is given preferential treatment because of race, he has accomplished nothing.
America should always remain a level playing field.

If a mans score does not measure up, Study,Study, Study.

Jeep

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: dianavan
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 11:35 PM

1. It gives minorities equal opportunities.

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 10:42 PM

Look, the system is still way tilted toward white folks and against black folks. I don't think, given Boss Hog's inventiveness, that affirmative action could make a dent in that basic premise in a 1000 years...

But like I said, it beats what we used to have...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 10:38 PM

If you reverse the sides ( black/white, female/male) and anyone thinks it is discrimination, just possibly it the original way...

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 10:35 PM

More like 'positive desegregation', IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: GUEST,Not Bill... best wishes anyhow
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 10:30 PM

Is Affirmative action, the same as 'positive discrimination'?

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 10:08 PM

Beats the heck out of what we used to have...

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: GUEST,George Washington
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 09:55 PM

Who needs 'Affirmative Action'? .. it's all written here

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 09:54 PM

It has it's flaws but it's better than nothing. Ideally, it should be a stopgap measure until the whole thing becomes a dead issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: GUEST,Jesus Christ
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 09:52 PM

Love your neighbour as yourself

Subject: BS: Affirmative Action?
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 09:50 PM

I wish this thread to be one of an actual discussion instead of a one liner hate fest.




Where do you stand on affirmative action?

There are usually three thoughts on this.

1. It helps minorities get the equality they deserve.

2. It hurts minorities by giving others the feeling of special treatment to minorities over caucasions.

3. It's purely a political idea thought up to pander for the votes of minorities.

....or are there more points of view out there?


Support your view. Don't be afraid to tell us how you really feel. Don't hide behind the guest moniker. Tell all who you are.


Hubby