BS: Peace?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 03:06 PM

michaelr

Give one example, if you have one...


CarolC

All the sites on the other thread, plus English language versions of the Arab media, and wherever else you suggest I look.


Number 6


and after Eastern Europe in the late 19th sentury, and WWII, I should trust the European Union to keep Iran from reporcessing uranium... or was that developing ICBMS? No, wait they have those now. What was it the EU was going to do????


While in Russia,
1905: A week-long pogrom marking one of the bloodiest periods in Russian Jewish history begins, spreading to dozens of towns and villages throughout Russia. Hundreds of Jews are killed, thousands are wounded and over forty thousand homes and shops are destroyed in the rioting.
three great waves of anti-Jewish rioting in the Russian Empire in 1881-82, 1903-06, and 1919-21

During the Civil War of 1918-1921, 2,000 pogroms left an estimated 100,000 Jews dead and more than half a million homeless.
http://www.factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000418.html



And in Armenia, by the Turks:

http://www.geocities.com/thegenocides/1915/1915.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 03:02 PM

George W. Bush has, through his stupid application of what he and his cronies consider "the law" and "appropriate wars," drawn a large target on the backs of all Americans. Do I feel "peace?" Hell no.

Okay Bruce, now you can attack someone who hates Bush and holds him personally responsible for many of the world's current ills. It's what you were aiming for with this thread, isn't it?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 01:24 PM

Good Thread.

Basically I'm critical of the United Nations for many things, but I believe it has done some good things as mentioned in this thread. I'm more in favor of having the United States participate and engage with and in the UN more rather than less.

"The game is rigged, but it's the only game in town."

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: number 6
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 01:22 PM

Beardebruce .."But I AM concerned about nations whose leaders tell the world that they want to kill me and my family because of where I was born, or what religion my grandmother had, or the color of my skin. Not for any action I have done, but the mere fact of my birth."

Where have you been... read some history.

Michaelr ... good point.

As I mentioned in my previous post ... "the circle keeps spinning ... that's all. Humans keep being humans." I should add unfortunately.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 01:15 PM

I see no vigerous discussion of "impeaching Ahmadinejad" or cracking down on the Muslim Brotherhood

And where are you looking for this discussion you say you don't see?

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: michaelr
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 01:03 PM

...blow up children's birthday parties knowing there are only innocent civilians present.

Oh, you mean the US forces overseas.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 12:48 PM

Amos,

The nations whose leaders make such comments, and the only criticism is that they should have said it quietly instead of yelled. I know some people from those countries, and in general, as individuals they are good people. But they are far more silent than those who disagree with our government: I see no vigerous discussion of "impeaching Ahmadinejad" or cracking down on the Muslim Brotherhood.

Iran and Korea come to mind. And there are other places where I could not go without risking my life just being there, for the reasons stated above. Places that support terrorists who push old men in wheelchairs off of cruise ships, and blow up children's birthday parties knowing there are only innocent civilians present.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 12:36 PM

Hmmmm... which nations? Do you attribute such sentiments to whole nations (meaning all the people in them) or just to those speaking?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 12:34 PM

Good points, LH.

But I AM concerned about nations whose leaders tell the world that they want to kill me and my family because of where I was born, or what religion my grandmother had, or the color of my skin. Not for any action I have done, but the mere fact of my birth.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 12:24 PM

I'm not sure whether or not the World has recently become more peaceful than it "was". That would depend on when you mean by the word "was", I suppose.

I have noticed this, that society in general is under great stress for a number of reasons, most of which are tied to a greatly expanding world population and a diminishing amount of arable land and natural resources.

The city of Toronto when I was a kid was extremely clean and there were virtually no homeless people to be seen anywhere. There are now homeless people on every downtown street, there's trash everywhere, and there's a great deal of crime, as compared to a couple of decades back...though it's still better than most (or all?) large American cities.

That suggests to me that people's lives in general are becoming less secure now than they used to be, because our social systems are overloading and failing. This is a worldwide phenomenon, driven by our ecomomic system which wants to keep expanding forever...on a limited base.

Whether one "feels safer" or not, though, is more a matter of one's own inner state of mind most of the time....(with the exception that in a major emergency such as a hurricane, a war, etc...one is not liable to feel very safe, regardless).

Some people focus mainly on positives (they feel empowered, and they act on that feeling). I note that they seem to feel safe most of the time, and they get a lot of useful things done. Others focus mainly on negatives, feeling disempowered (which I have always had a weakness toward doing, as a matter of fact)...and they almost NEVER feel safe.

You and I are the victims of the way we think...most of the time. Occasionally we really ARE caught in some quite unfortunate turn of events that comes upon us from an exterior source outside our own range of decision and control, but most of the time it's just our own compulsive negativity that brings us down...in my opinion.

I might add that I never, at any time, felt the least bit unsafe on account of Saddam Hussein or Iraq. Never. In fact, I laugh at such a notion! I do feel somewhat unsafe in regards to the Bush administration's possible future decisions...but there are personal matters that worry me a whole lot more than Mr Bush does. He will pass. My personal challenges in life will be with me till I die...and maybe beyond that.

You know what's really scary? Aging. Illness. Loneliness. Poverty. Unemployment. Homelessness. Loss of faith in the things (or people) one most relied upon. The loss of one's young hopes and dreams for this life. The loss of loved ones. Stuff like that.

Yup, stuff like that concerns me a whole lot more than George Bush or Saddam Hussein ever will. And they're got to deal with that stuff too...every day of their lives.

(I do agree, BB, that the media always focus on trouble and disaster. That's their marketing game. It gets attention and sells copy. In a similar sense, movie magazines dwell on the personal disasters of famous people for exactly the same reason. Bad news attracts attention. Gossip is mostly driven by that impulse as well. Nasty business, isn't it?)

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 11:01 AM

Strongly worded, but essentially correct in every word, InOBU

DT

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: InOBU
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 10:55 AM

Frankly, I would feel much safer and at peace, if my nation was not a criminocracy where the Executive Branch of government decides what is and what is not law, while denying the Judicery that constitutionally dictated role, and the law making branch, flaunts the rules, keeping votes open illeagally, and is jam packed with law breakers...

Liberty is a terrible thing to loose. We can't loose it to 23 Saudis on a death trip, but we are loosing it to a nation of cowards who trade it for a veneer of protection.

Peace
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: number 6
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 10:45 AM

I ask .... when were we ever safe??

We may not have had delinquint el qaida teenagers flying planes into our buildings back then (whenever that was) ... but there were always wars, civil or 'uncivil', threats of nuclear annhiliation, GMC building and selling us Corvairs, polio, tb, cigarretes, bad food, bad lying presidents, Costa Nostra.

The circle keeps spinning ... that's all. Humans keep being humans.

Peace,
Six

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 10:36 AM

Anyone who can turn out a 66% success rate dealing with human psychosis deserves support, I M H O.

Blessed are the peacemakers, saith the Scripture -- not, I hasten to add, "blessed are the warmongers".


A

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 10:31 AM

True, CarolC.

My complaint with the UN is the places it chooses NOT to invest time in, "the failures to stop genocide in Rwanda, Srebrenica and Darfur " for example. And its pointless posturing on the issue of the Middle East, due to the difference in member nations views on what would be the best path to peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 10:24 AM

Very interesting... this bit in particular -

"Other international agencies, donor governments and nongovernmental organizations also played a critical role, but it was the United Nations that took the lead, pushing a range of conflict-prevention and peace-building initiatives on a scale never before attempted. The number of U.N. peacekeeping operations and missions to prevent and stop wars have increased by more than 400 percent since the end of the Cold War. As this upsurge of international activism grew in scope and intensity through the 1990s, the number of crises, wars and genocides declined.

There have been some horrific and much publicized failures, of course -- the failures to stop genocide in Rwanda, Srebrenica and Darfur being the most egregious. But the quiet successes -- in Namibia, El Salvador, Mozambique, Eastern Slovenia, East Timor and elsewhere went largely unheralded, as did the fact that the United Nations' expertise in handling difficult missions has grown dramatically.

A major study by the Rand Corp. published this year found that U.N. peace-building operations had a two-thirds success rate. They were also surprisingly cost-effective. In fact, the United Nations spends less running 17 peace operations around the world for an entire year than the United States spends in Iraq in a single month. What the United Nations calls "peacemaking" -- using diplomacy to end wars -- has been even more successful. About half of all the peace agreements negotiated between 1946 and 2003 have been signed since the end of the Cold War."

Subject: RE: BS: Peace?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 10:20 AM

That rather depends, I would think, on whether you are one of the unlucky multitude who happen to live in one of the many places around the world where other people are trying to kill you.

While large, organised, wars between nations have declined, there are still many conflicts devastating the lives of our fellow human beings, and several which threaten more than just the local population.

Statistically the world may be more peaceful, but in reality that does not necessarily equate to more safety.

Don T.

Subject: BS: Peace?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 10:09 AM

My point for posting this is to invite polite debate on the issues presented.

Do people feel safer now? IMO, we have the perception of not being as safe as we were, but it seems the reality is that we are safer.






Peace on Earth? Increasingly, Yes.

By Andrew Mack

Wednesday, December 28, 2005; Page A21

Seen through the eyes of the media, the world appears an evermore dangerous place. Iraq is sliding toward civil war, the slaughter in Darfur appears unending, violent insurgencies are brewing in Thailand and a dozen other countries, and terrorism strikes again in Bali. It is not surprising that most people believe global violence is increasing.

However, most people, including many leading policymakers and scholars, are wrong. The reality is that, since the end of the Cold War, armed conflict and nearly all other forms of political violence have decreased. The world is far more peaceful than it was.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/27/AR2005122700732.html