Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:36 PM

My impression (I did not study her closely) was that she was unfairly denigrated simply because she was obviously attractive and had big (artificial) breasts. That in itself would not justify the hostility shown above by some.

It has struck me that she would have had some way to go to get down to the level of Jordan - and the sad gain of weight spoke of a person suffering.

I know little of the facts, but my inclination is of sympathy for her.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:14 PM

I think it may have been the gummint, Charley. See, Anna Nicole was a longtime - and good - mole...

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:08 PM

BUT WHO IS THE MURDER?

We're running out of time here.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: Amos
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:04 PM

But since you ask, although I left this note for you over on Rapaire's birthday thred, here's the answer:

"One theory as to why, albeit with little evidence to support it, is that the phrase originates from the notion that people hanged themselves by standing on a bucket with a noose around their neck and then kicking the bucket away. There are no citations that relate the phrase to suicide and, in any case, why a bucket? Whenever I've needed something to stand on I can't recall ever opting for a bucket. This theory doesn't stand up any better than the supposed buckets did.

The mist begins to clear with the fact that in 16th century England bucket had an additional meaning (and in some parts it still has), i.e. a beam or yoke used to hang or carry items. The term may have been introduced into English from the French trébuchet - meaning a balance, or buque - meaning a yoke. That meaning of bucket was referred to in Peter Levins' Manipulus vocabulorum. A dictionarie of English and Latine wordes, 1570:

"A Bucket, beame, tollo."

and was used by Shakespeare in Henry IV Part II, 1597:

"Swifter then he that gibbets on the Brewers Bucket." [to gibbet meant to hang]

The wooden frame that was used to hang animals up by their feet for slaughter was called a bucket. Not unnaturally they were likely to struggle or to spasm after death and hence 'kick the bucket'."

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: Amos
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 11:59 AM

You can use the Internet as well as I can, Monsieur Hawk.


A

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 11:51 AM

Okay, so that takes care of where "bought the farm" came from. How about "kicked the bucket"? Got a derivation for that, Amos?

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 11:33 AM

buying the farm like pushing the daisies is appropriate only for soldiers facing death everytime. It is their way of managing their fears with irony, and should be restricted to them. I wouldn't mind to read it from wherever I'll be in my obit, but for this beautiful mother it seems very inappropriate to me. Poor woman, poor girl.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: Amos
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 11:01 AM

Two erudite discussions on the origins of this phrase can be found at Snopes and at Word Origins. Neither discussion is definitive, but both trace the phrase back to the nineteenth centruy.

A

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: Amos
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 10:57 AM

"The farm" is just the six-foot plot. Soldiers often talked, also, about buying a little farm when the war was over; and those who didn't make it bought a different sort of farm altogether. It is a phrase used by soldiers to lighten the burden of grim reality, and is not disrespectful--in fact, it is meant to be friendly, or at least comradely.

A

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 10:27 AM

Idiomatic expressions are one of the reasons that language translation can become an art form. When we are, as the saying goes, "separated by a common language," it illustrates this all the more.

"PC" has nothing to do with this, but it is an easy charge to make if you disagree. The dismissal of a life with a throw-away idiom (as discussed at length) is bad taste, but aparently also in the eye of the beholder.

Morning Edition's piece about her death from this morning.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: mg
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 10:11 AM

has to do with benefits the families of soldiers got in one of the world wars...they often used them to pay off the mortgage on the farm. mg

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: Wesley S
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 09:51 AM

Why is "bought the farm" used as a term for death? For that matter what about "kicked the bucket"? Does anyone know?

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 09:12 AM

I'm glad that guest ozchick said that he actually thought she'd bought a farm because that is what I thought and I'm pleased I'm not the only one. I don't have a problem with the title. I felt really sad when I heard the news, probably because she was an interesting person who had lead an unusual and interesting life even though there were some very sad times for her. If anybody makes a film of her whole life I will definitely watch it.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 09:09 AM

I know other thread titles have been changed with less provocation.

I understand that these kind of decisions are arbitrary, and I do not mean that as a knock against anyone. We are all human.   Joe makes a good point about this opening up a discussion about our views on death.

I'm sure none of us cherish the thought that there are people out there ready to dance on our grave when the time comes, but it is reality. I would have hoped that Mudcat and Mudcatters would have shown a bit more compassion but people are what they are.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 09:08 AM

Quite often the public blond bimbo is the facade of an intelligent woman working ...

And more often not; a bimbo is just a bimbo.

Speaking of "shallow" and "addled": her death is significant and worthy of all this attention nd verbal wrangling and angst because.....?

Or is this a Donne-style situation where "Any bimbo's death diminishes me" ?

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: JJ
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 08:50 AM

Who will write a "Candle in the Wind" for Vickie Lynn?

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 08:44 AM

My only interest in this story is solving the mystery. More people have died than in any of the detective stories I have read recently. Here's a summary:

Her multimillionaire husband E. Pierce Marshall II, died in 1995 at age 90, leaving a fortune to her of more than $400 million

Marshall's stepson who disputed (dispute still unresolved) Anna Nicole Smith's claim to her husband's fortune died last June 20 at age 67

Anna Nicole Smith's son David by her first husband Bill Smith, a cook at Jim's Krispy Fried Chicken, died last September 20 at age 20 in his mother's hospital room in the Bahamas while she was recovering from the birth of her daughter Danniellynn whose paternity is in dispute

Anna Nicole Smith dies February 8 at age 39 after collapsing in her hotel room at a Florida casino.

Too many bodies, and way too much money.

Whose behind all these deaths? Was it her lawyer/lover/possible father of Danniellynn whose unlikely name is Howard K. Stern? Was it the other lover/possible father of Danniellynn photographer with the unlikely name of Larry Birkhead? Was it a heir of Marshall's stepson, whose name has eluded me, who is still bound and determined to collection the $400 million? Or, was it Anna Nicole Smith's mother, a deputy sherriff, who may win ultimately the right to raise her granddaughter? Detective Columbo would love this mystery!

I challenge Mudcatters to solve this mystery before the media annouces its verdict!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith buys the farm
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 08:29 AM

Joe, yes, it's also an opportunity to discuss how some people insist on PC language because they can't or won't look for the meaning in the message.

I feel bad for her because she ran out of chances. Despite the dismissive, judgemental types, people can grow and change until they die and are frozen forever in who they are then. I don't have a clue about her life really, but she had a son die, gave birth to a daughter, maybe was in love and appeared to be doing ok.

I watched the TV show a few times and found it both fascinating and repugnant. I think she might have played the characature because she thought that was the best she was capable of. She liked to shake up the easily shaken, she liked to shock people, and I think she would have appreciated the in-your-face title.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 02:51 AM

"She was nothing but a junked up woman, who if not rich and famous would have sold her body on the corner and died in the alley. " Amergin

Unless you know her more intimately than we do, 'Gin, you cannot possibly know that. And even if it were true, have you considered that just possibly she saw to it that she was "rich and famous" in order to avoid that corner? Many of us are aware of our own frailties.

I have often wondered if those entertainers who died way young from drug abuse of various sorts would have died even younger if they had not gone into the business.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 02:20 AM

She was beautiful, rich and very sad.

She leaves behind a baby girl that might be worth $400,000,000 since her husband, his son and her son have all died. No wonder 3 people are fighting for custody. I'd be sad too, if I were surrounded by such bad company.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: heric
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 02:15 AM

I am not at all offended by the title, BUT
We shall each, like Anna, breathe in our dying breath, and wonder.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Metchosin
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 02:06 AM

my previous comment referred to Amergin's.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Metchosin
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 02:01 AM

and that isn't sad?????

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: GUEST,ozchick
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 01:55 AM

When I first saw the title of the thread, I thought she'd actually bought a farm.

I don't think we use that saying in Australia, or at least not often enough for me to have heard it before.

It's sad - I mostly feel sorry for her baby.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Amergin
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 01:22 AM

She was nothing but a junked up woman, who if not rich and famous would have sold her body on the corner and died in the alley.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:59 AM

Lonesome, I saw snippets of her program in passing, I never actually watched more than a few minutes of it, but I have tended to presume that those "reality" programs are more fiction than fact. They are created for public consumption and there is a formula of smarminess and pathos that must go into them (just like soap operas) to keep people coming back. Do you think she was really that lacking in substance? That's why I made the comment about "dumb blonds" being good at the act but in actuality quite bright.

Mary, I agree.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: mg
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:27 AM

I think the young man was just about 20. And there is something really wrong with lawyer man and the paternity dispute. All he had to do was help her get the baby a DNA test, and he could have said I will love her like my own if I am not the father, but not put a mother who has just lost a son through this custody battle. mg

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Wordsmith
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:26 AM

Not a good title, I'll agree. Usually statements like that denote an inability to deal with death, by making light of it - tossing it off, but I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, just making an observation.

I was shocked to hear of Anna Nicole Smith's sudden death; I heard it from the kitchen where I was cooking dinner. Of course, I put things on to simmer and went in to hear whatever sketchy details there were at the time. I'm afraid I couldn't help jumping to conclusions. I mean, her son dies at the foot of her hospital bed while she sleeps - drug overdose? Now, she mysteriously dies, collapses and her bodyguard can't resuscitate her?

BTW, she wasn't technically married to that lawyer of hers. They never got a marriage license. Then there's the paternity issues, which I'm sure the two men in question will now be clamoring to get DNA testing for, now that she's gone. Again, jumping to conclusions.

I heard on the 11 o'clock news that her mother (who knew she was even alive?) is trying to get custody of the remaining child. (Sad.) Talk about an American tragedy. If a writer had come up with a novel that laid out ANS' life, no one would have published it. I watched a couple of episodes of her "reality" show...it was pathetic, yet I couldn't help wondering whether it was really what she was like or whether it was pandering to what she thought people already believed or felt about her. Still, I read the tabloids, too. I felt she deserved to win her court battle and did, but wonder if she ever got the money with the guy's son still battling to keep it from her. Or if it made her life any better. The sum in question is $400,000,000.

Now, maybe she's at peace, however she died. And she does deserve respect on that basis alone.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:48 PM

I saw one episode of her show on A&E. I have never seen such a pathetic portrayal of an addled, self-absorbed, shallow individual in my life. Along with the hangers-on such as her lawyer, who I suppose married her and fathered her child, the most interesting thing about the show was the fact that a network would put such a specimen on exhibit, and they deserve condemnation for giving a public forum to the fiasco of her life. The real victim in the entire tragedy of her life thus far was not her, not her infant child who probably stands a better chance of happiness with foster parentage, but the son who grew up under her "care" and the ogling eye of the camera and died pathetically in her presence at age 18.

Wizzy, I think the "buys farm" comment implies that you certainly disapproved of the woman, and I second your disapproval, but the phrase carries a smirk in it that isn't erased by any other statement in your opening post. Just my opinion.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: IvanB
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:31 PM

Caricature she may have been, but all I'd seen whenever she was in the news for the past 15 years or so was an incredibly sad woman. I'm sorry for her death and doubly sorry for her daughter, who will no doubt be the subject of an intense custody battle between those who will see her only as a conduit to whatever money might be gained through Anna's suit over the inheritance.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: mg
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:56 PM

I don't think she was a caricature at all...just a tragic, probably drug-hampered person possibly in the snares of a bad man recently. I don't know. She had recent awful tragedies and I would prefer to see a differet obit title..I don't think it was intentional to be disrespectful at all, just one of those awkward things we say when we don't know what to say that looks worse in writing...mg

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:54 PM

Joe,

I don't think she was a caricature, because you would have to know what the caricature was of to make it work, but she did reinvent herself a number of times. When her star would start to fade along would come something new. And she certainly made a big impression when she lost the weight and appeared at the American Music Awards a while back.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:53 PM

I agree with you, Alba. There has to be something behind the public personna and calling her no great loss and a caricature seems callous to me. Joe, you have no idea what her life as a child was like. Many stars were born with some other name; do you condemn them for it?

I am shocked and sad to hear this news and that is not hypocritical; that is an honest feeling as another human *bean.*

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: mmm1a
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:41 PM

I was sad to see that she had died. I thought of her baby, and how now there will be a fight for who get's custody. Not a happy start to life for that little girl.
                              mmm1a

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:35 PM

I'd agree that the title is disrespectful, and it's not likely that I would start a thread with such a title myself. Certainly, the title is provocative, but I think it might provoke some good discussion of our attitudes and ways of speaking about death. Otherwise, it will just be another worthless tabloid obituary.

The thread title is an interesting test of societal taboos. Many of our past taboos have disappeared in our "enlightened" age, but most of us are still very uneasy when speaking of death, and get downright nervous when there's even a hint of humor in connection with it. If anything, our death taboos have become more rigid in the current time. Look at obituary threads at Mudcat, and observe how reluctant some people are to even use the word "died" - "passed" seems to be the currently favored word. "The old man kicked the bucket" is nowadays possibly more unacceptable than "motherfucker."

Disrespectful or not, I still hold to my opinion that Anna Nicole Smith was a self-made caricature. The stories of her life were just too preposterous, to the point where it seemed she scripted her life for the tabloids - especially the whole saga of her marriage to the dying nonagenarian billionaire. It IS certainly a shame when a life is lived out in the tabloids instead of in reality, but such was the case with Anna Nicole Smith - which wasn't her real name. She was born Vickie Lynn Hogan in Houston on Nov. 28, 1967. Perhaps Vickie Lynn was a real person, but Anna Nicole wasn't. Vickie Lynn, however, wouldn't warrant any notice in the news at all.

Thus ends the sad life of Anna Nicole Smith. May her next life be happier.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: GUEST,LilyFestre
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:10 PM

I find the title to be disrepsectful.
Peace to Anna Nicole Smith and her family.

Michelle

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:37 PM

"but this excess of sensitivity about it is beyond hypocrisy, given the general tone most 'Catters take whenever any public figure around here has come up for discussion."

That is not a fair statement. You have no idea of what any of us thought about Anna Nicole Smith and to base your opinion on previous discussions is wrong. I don't think that the obit threads normally take a bad tone when someone passes. Mudcatters may have more compassion than you give us credit for.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and I think it would be a good idea to change. I respect Joe's opinion to leave it as is, but it would be a nice gesture if the originator of this thread asked for a change. If you don't feel that way, it is your choice.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Alba
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 08:20 PM

Got PMd to come in here and clarify my thoughts...oooo, like what I think means diddley spit in the world of Mudcat!

I said I wasn't too fond of the choice of thread title.
What really lit my touchpaper was "Anna Nicole Smith was a caricature"
somehow that just PMO.

Susan said nothing in her earlier posts about this young woman's death that struck me as callous or unkind.

Now if you want to talk callous: Not much of a loss seems to fit that category.

There now. For the person that PMd me. IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU!!! or should I have typed slower.

Jude

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 08:07 PM

a callous thread title

Nothing callous about it in my heart. If I wanted to be callous I would have said it quite differently. If you are disposed to see it as callous, I'm sorry you see it (and me) that way, but that's your call.

There is a difference between "nice" and "kind." People who know me well are not at all confused which one is important to me.

As a friend once said-- NOT "twee."

~Susan

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: GUEST,mother
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 08:06 PM

Not much of a loss.

I'd say it is a very big one to her baby. Sad news.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:46 PM

Susan

Right on

Mark

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:27 PM

God rest her. Poor girl. How tragic for her to die after her 20-year-old son, and leaving after her her little five-month-old baby. I hope her baby finds a loving home.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:12 PM

Quite often the public blond bimbo is the facade of an intelligent woman working to get ahead on her own terms. Not all displayed equal talent, but the intelligence should probably be presumed to be present. (Jean Harlow, Marilyn Monroe, Jayne Mansfield, Carol Wayne, Ann Jillian, etc.) In case no one ever read about it, her trial to get her share of her deceased husband's estate was interesting. The husband's grown son was real piece of work who was probably going to be held criminally liable for his cheating on her share of the estate had he not died last year. And when Smith went to testify before the Supreme Court last year Nina Totenberg was as professional in her coverage as on any other case. No smug reporting, this was a legitimate case before the most important court in the land.

Justifying a callous thread title by pointing at others on different topics is a non-answer. Several people have expressed their sorrow that this troubled woman, still quite young, has died suddenly. Her last few months were very difficult by anyone's standards. They've also registered a level of dismay at the colloquial announcement in the thread title. "Bites the dust." "Buys the farm." "Kicks the Bucket." It's a trite way to announce it, and I find it particularly ironic that someone who too often stands on her christian principles and connections to set herself up as a moral compass for folks here at Mudcat (and sends along scolds when she doesn't agree with subject matter) would be so insensitive regarding how she starts the obit for the early death of a still-young mother.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:03 PM

Hey, Lonesome, my implied point is that, given the caricature, we don't actually know what she was capable of. Maybe she was just extremely good at what she made us see? At any rate, I'm willing to bet that she had her share of anguish in the dark hours. I'll grant her what as a human being she deserves.

In no way am I comparing her talents with Elvis, Jimi, Hank, et al, other than recognizing the all too short lives they each ended with.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 06:55 PM

'The sadness I feel is the same thing I find myself feeling whenever a person dies without ever having attained what they were capable of doing. Like Elvis. Like Hank Williams. Like many another early death whether known only through the media or in my own experience.'

Oh come on Ebbie. Elvis and Hank Williams did indeed have untapped potential. We know that because we saw some of what they were capable of. Did Anna Nicole really have any potential beyond what we already witnessed? She was a fairly dim-witted sex kitten with numerous substance issues and a lust for fame and fortune. I really think we pretty much got the whole story.

Unfortunate that she died young, and I see nothing funny about it. Neither did I find it particularly sad or poignant, certainly not like feelings suggested by the deaths of Hank Williams, Elvis, Jimi Hendrix, Charlie Parker, or many others I could name.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 06:38 PM

I agree that the persona that she created, wittingly or not, certainly was a caricature, and it lent itself to endless jokes on the talk show circuit. In my real life circle, I never once even heard her name. I would guess that we all recognized the human being behind the facade.

The sadness I feel is the same thing I find myself feeling whenever a person dies without ever having attained what they were capable of doing. Like Elvis. Like Hank Williams. Like many another early death whether known only through the media or in my own experience.

Her little girl faces a difficult life. Remember the Onassis daughter? Remember 'the poor little rich girl', Gloria Vanderbilt? Vanderbilt at least built a life for herself that includes talent and achievement aside from her notoriety as a child.

I hope the Smith child is reared and nurtured by sane, loving, and wise people.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Amergin
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 06:32 PM

Not much of a loss.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Amos
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 06:23 PM

The title is perfectly respectable colloquial English, the kind I imagine she would have enjoyed. Leave it alone.

I am surprised to hear of her collapse, as she was only 39. But the last 13 have been extremely interesting!


A

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Alba
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 06:15 PM

"some people spend their whole day hoping against hope that something will come along to which they can take considerable offence..."

...and then there are some people that don't!

Hey Number 6! I'm right behind you, hold the door.

Subject: RE: Obit: Anna Nicole Smith Buys Farm
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 05:57 PM

Well, you know, Susan, some people spend their whole day hoping against hope that something will come along to which they can take considerable offence... (sardonic chuckle) The text of your post makes it clear that you are showing respect for the lady.

I never really knew much about her. I've seen her name on a lot of movie magazines at the supermarket checkout, but that was about it. I guess if I watched TV I'd know a lot more about it.