Where can bad singers go?

Subject: RE: Where can bad singers go?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 06:31 AM

"Supposing I had taken a hit at their fragile confidence when they were starting out?"

For God's sake!! This debate has NEVER been about discouraging or ostracising beginners! I'm sure some people only read what they want to read.

Subject: RE: Where can bad singers go?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 06:30 AM

but first you need to define "bad".

No we don't! Bad is bad. It doesn't need any further definition. I have already said I don't mean mediocre and I am not talking about personal tastes. When someone cannot keep a song in key or time; when they do not know the words; when they cannot play the instrument they have brought and finaly and most importantly DO SO ON A REGULAR BASIS WITH NO SIGN OF IMPROVEMENT. Then they are bad. Why do we need to keep dredging this up?

DeG

Subject: RE: Where can bad singers go?
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 06:10 AM

.....all well and good.....but first you need to define "bad".

In a long and happy career as a folk club organiser there are many people who I gave a chance to who would not have passed muster in the "court of Mudcat". Some are now professional musicians, storytellers and solid supporters of folk music. Supposing I had taken a hit at their fragile confidence when they were starting out? The folk world would have been the poorer, I guess.

No-one wakes up in the morning and says, "Hey, I'm a useless singer, I think I'll go to the folk club and ask for a spot!"

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: Where can bad singers go?
From: alex s
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 06:02 AM

Come to us, ye lost and lonely.
Burnley Folk Club welcomes allcomers.(is that a word?)

Merry Christmas.

Subject: RE: Where can bad singers go?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 05:48 AM

The King's Head, on a Friday night.

(hope the landlord doesn't see this)

Subject: RE: Where can bad singers go?
From: Darowyn
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 05:29 AM

Karaoke bars.

Subject: RE: Where can bad singers go?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 05:21 AM

Tam -

If a known poor performer ask if they can have a spot on one of our concert nights I say no and tell them to come back on a singers night. I think that is the nicest way I can tell them they are not good enough and point them to where they can sing at the same time.

Taste doesn't come into it. I don't like either Opera or Jazz but I know when it is being performed to a reasonable standard. We are not talking mediocre here we are talking BAD in capital letters...

DeG

Subject: RE: Where can bad singers go?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 05:07 AM

Ummmm... Who is going to tell a singer or musician the he or she is bad and signpost them to where they can go?

What about taste? I mean what if the one making this decision simply does not like a perfectly good performer's style?

Subject: RE: Where can bad singers go?
From: Gervase
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 04:59 AM

Singarounds - organised by and for singers as opposed to paid-for entertainment - are one place where people can find their feet (or their voice). The informal free sessions in pubs or on the fringes at festivals are also excellent nurseries for talent.
And at home or at work or in the car. I sing nearly every day, but haven't sung 'in public' for many a long month. Maybe I'm lucky in that I work out of doors and alone (apart from a long-suffering dog), but I find that helps.
And, regardless of where anyone sings, there should always be a hyper-critical audience, which is the singer him/herself. That's the most difficult one to ensure, and one which seems to elude many dire singers. Many, I fear, are simply unaware that they are not doing any favours either to the material or themselves. Just as we are all above average in everything we do, so many singers will consider themselves competent to perform in public when, to the outsider, they're clearly not.
But it's difficult to separate the issue of declining folk clubs and poor performing. In my view they are firmly linked. As such I fear the same arguments will be trotted out on all the threads you mention, and nothing will happen. Internet forums do not change people's minds.

Subject: Where can bad singers go?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 04:28 AM

Joe and the Mods - I am not starting this thread to create friction - I am trying to make your job easier. In three different threads now it has come down to bad perfomers causing problems at folk clubs. Lets make things simple (I like simple!) and keep to one place to discuss that topic. If you see anyone going off on one on any other thread - send them here. If you feel however that there is too much of this going on already feel free to get rid of it (but let me know please)

Other people - Keep arguments about bad perfomers off the Manners and dying or dead folk clubs thread. Stick them here. OK?

On the one hand we have the people that advocate that bad performers have the right to sing or play at folk clubs.

On the other we have ones who believe that some people should not be given the stage until they can perform adequately.

I believe that everyone should have somewhere to sing or play, regardless of ability. But I would restrict the bad performers to performing within a circle of friends and try to help them improve that way. I would not, as a folk club organiser, let them perform in front of an audience of strangers. For both the sake of the audience and themselves.

What do you think?

Cheers

DeG