BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Pseudolus
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 02:41 PM

Kat, Amos et al,
   I agree that all of you have a certain amount of logic on your side. But you're describing what a soldier SHOULD think and be. Maybe they should understand that the freedoms they are fighting for include free speech and some folks are exercising exactly that. I felt that the most logical thing to do was to talk to some folks who have been there and although it's anything BUT a scientific sampling, those few that I have talked to believe that protests like Michael Moore's and the negative media reports about what they are doing are detrimental to the morale of the troops. That doesn't make me right, but it the basis from which I've drawn my opinion. Let's not forget, I never said that he didn't have the right to express his opinion, I just simply disagreed that he should have done it when and where he did. He has the right to talk, I have the right to disagree, right? Now, I did call him a horse's ass but I had that opinion before last night. And in fairness to Mr. Moore, he probably wouldn't like me either.......fair enough.

   And Amos, I would "give you a break" but I never said that "he is there for acclaim" or "He is there to achieve the impossible goal of unified opinion across a nation?" Must have been someone else.....


Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 02:38 PM

Peg,

Thread creep: Perhaps because they're older and beyond Hollywood's view of what it takes to be sexy (youth, primarily, because I would argue that Streep and O'Toole still have the second component, good looks), no one was counting when Peter O'Toole gave Meryl Streep THREE kisses, one on each cheek and one on the lips when she gave him his award.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 02:31 PM

This is a bit more of what Moore said, as reported by MTV:

Moore, who received a standing ovation when he was announced as winner of the best documentary Oscar for "Bowling for Columbine" (click here for a complete list of winners), made the most incendiary speech of the evening. With all of his fellow nominees onstage with him, he said, "We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in a time where we have fictitious election results that elect a fictitious president. We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons."

Amid both cheers and boos, Moore continued to speak his mind, saying ultimately to President Bush that "anytime you've got the pope and the Dixie Chicks against ya, your time is up."

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 02:17 PM

Make no mistake, Frank, I have never said they do not represent me. Just that I think we need to credit them with a little more critical thinking skills than has been seen here. I wonder how they will feel if they ever hear some of the really demoralising truths about their so-called commander in chief, et alia? This is old history, but just one of the "old" causes which brought about this sorry, sad state of affairs: On 1 August 1990, the day before Iraq invades Kuwait, the US approves the sale of $695 million worth of advanced data transmission devices.

Sources: Amnesty International annual reports; Human Rights Watch World Report 1990; Third World Guide 93-94.

In the end, actions such as that will have a much greater effect than a few words spoken at the Oscars.

Can you imagine what the Civil War must have been like? ON our own soil, brother against brother? I am sure there was plenty of demoralising rhetoric to overcome then, too. It's just a fact, esp. when we do have freedom of speech.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Peg
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 02:17 PM

I thought Brody was a class act (asked for and got additional speech time and then made some very heartfelt comments). I loved his kissing Halle Berry! And when he went to leave the stage you could see him connecting with her again and she was smiling and seemed okay with it. And I think he'd have done this no matter what woman presented the award...it's just a bit more romantic and picturesque perhaps when the woman is close to his age and a paragon of beauty, in that Hollywood way. The presenter for these actor/actress awards is nearly always the person (actress/actor) who won the year before.

Moore's words seemed somewhat prepared but I am very glad he spoke them. Especially liked hearing "Shame on you Mr. Bush!" in that dogged way he has! Love him or hate him, the man sticks to his convictions and many Americans admire his work on behalf of the working class.

Susan Sarandon was given the obituary tribute segment, no doubt this was intentional because it is known she would be a star who would speak out against the war if given an appropriate opportunity. As it was she walked onstage smiling and flashing a peace sign for several long seconds.

Steve Martin finished up his hosting stint (I thought he was fantastic and in great form) by saying he hoped the troops would make it home safe and said "this is for you." I also thought that was pretty classy.

A great night, one of the better Oscar ceremonies in recent memory.

Rick, I must disagree that actors are on the whole an unintelligent or uneducated lot. I studied acting myself and have met a large number of professional actors over the years and my overwhelming impression is that actors are highly intelligent people. Particularly if they are character actors who must research roles, or method actors who understand the psychology behind a role. Meryl Streep is one of the smartest women in America according to many; she graduated with honors from both Vassar and the Yale School of Drama. Actors who start out studying theatre are encouraged to emphasize textual analysis; not easy for dumb people. I would agree there are some "movie star" types who are a bit bubble-headed; but even a pretty boy like Keanu Reeves is, despite appearances, a fairly intellectual individual, believe it or not. Acting is not easy; it only looks that way. The worse the actor, the more likely their intelligence is fairly low.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Amos
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 02:13 PM

It would seem to me that if a soldier is representing American values he should celebrate hearing about the open communication of dissenting viewpoints. Is he there for acclaim, after all? Is he there to achieve the impossible goal of unified opinion across a nation? Gimme a break. If I were driving an AAV in Iraq, I would know I was fighting to defend exactly the freedom that Michael Moore exercised last night, and I would be proud of him for upholding the same values I was.

Furthermore, IMHO, if someone is going to take up arms under any circumstances, they really need to be absolutely clear as to why they are doing so, and not be vulnerable to the endless miasma of shifting opinions. Going in to lethal combat based on someone's idea that it's needed, without a clear sense of your own reality on the decision, is pretty risky, if you ask me. I'm not there, and I don't agree that we should have gotten there. But if I were there, it would be balls to the wall and kicking butt to bring down a tyrannical government and get the hell back to my own life, and I sure as hell would not be thrown off because of someone in Hollywood disagreeing with why I should or should not be there.

This may be a lot easier to say from a distance. Of course. But I think it is true.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Pseudolus
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 01:35 PM

Kat,
It's a very different thing to hear those things from abroad than it is to hear it from your own country. Yet, I'll say again, it is the right of those who have the urge to express their opinions to express them, to friends, in the media, wherever someone will listen. It's just that I myself would not handle it that way.

I have several friends who served the country in the Gulf War and a couple who were involved in Viet Nam including my father-in-law. Every one of them have said that it is demoralizing to hear that the same people they are there to represent are putting down what they are doing or even worse, denying them altogether by saying that "They (the troops) don't represent me, cause I'm against the war."

It's very easy in the comfort of our own homes, in the glow of our computer screens, to say that they should realize that we're just exercising our freedom of speech. I suspect it's a little different with Iraqi troops on one side and the pressure of public opinion on the other.


Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 01:03 PM

Frank, if the soldiers are thinking about this country and what it is they fight to preserve then they would understand Moore's speech to be the epitome of that which they uphold: free speech. Besides which I am sure they are hearing much, much worse from around the world since the shrub has alienated so many and those many are not quiet in their hatred of him and America.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: harvey andrews
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:45 PM

Agreed Rick. Moore is a true hero. At the time of Vietnam we had Ochs and his songs as a rallying point for dissent. Moore fills Ochs's role as a nation's conscience. I hope he survives the hatred his free speech will engender in the land of freedom.
Anyone for a verse of "Cops of the world"?

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Pseudolus
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 11:54 AM

I totally agree, there's a lot that could and should be done, and I realize that I can't make a blanket statement about the entire country, but for a large majority of Viet Nam Vets, the hatred and disdain for the war was taken out on them by a lot of people. Not many were treated like heroes when they came home and that's my point. How would I feel if I were in Iraq and kept hearing all the negative stuff about what I am doing? I know it would affect me.

I don't have the answer. I totally support anyone's right to express their opinion, including Michael Moore. But when it happens like it did last night, it saddens me to wonder what our troops are thinking when they hear it. It's not bad enough to be away from their families and friends, but they have to hear people on National (and international) TV telling them that what they are doing is wrong.

It's sad, I want it to be over as much as anyone and in fact I wish it never started. But reality is reality, so I pray for a quick and safe return for all of them.......

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: InOBU
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 11:37 AM

Well, Pseudolus: As you know, I live on the lower east side of Manhattan, and I am a Quaker. We did, and in fact, you will find that the anti war movement did more to welcome home Vets during that conflict than did the government. Don't take my word, call the Vietnam Vets against the War, if you need a contact PM me, and I will give you the number of some of the guys, and it was not just Vets who were against the war. Every morning I step out my door, and see right wing Yuppies stepping over Bill, a Silver Star winner, and calling him a bum, it sickens me. Bill and I are old friends, he is a kind and generous fellow who has lived on the streets since the Viet Nam war. Some way to treat heroes, eh? If you are in the North East, come to New York, and meet the vets, see what has become of so many of them. Folks point to a few instances where idiots who long since sold out and now probably work on wall street spit at vets, that was not the anti war movement, it was not the committed workers for peace who are still working for peace while those idiots "grew up".
I don't say this as a wise guy, but really do find out, and help. It is the point that the war supporters and anti war supports are in lock step. We have to stop throwing away young men and women after we use them in the army.
All the best
Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Pseudolus
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 11:28 AM

So InOBU, are you saying that Viet Nam Vets were welcomed home with open arms??????   Not in my neighborhood.......


Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: InOBU
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 11:23 AM

Hi Pseudolus, by "...It must really give them confidence that they have the prospect of being treated along the same lines as a viet nam vet was treated upon returning to the US..." do you mean that instead of help with drug and alcoholism, instead of help with the depression that follows combat, the Federal government will give them street corners and jail cells?
Michael Moore gives some hope of help to them, I have to say, have you seen any of his films?
Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 11:15 AM

Certainly some different takes in the media as to Moore's speech. Drudge leads to a Yahoo news story which has the following:

Michael Moore booed as he slams Iraq war at Oscars
Mon Mar 24, 2:13 AM ET

HOLLYWOOD (AFP) - Famed US documentary maker Michael Moore (news) used his win of an Oscar to launch a violent attack on US President George W. Bush (news - web sites) and war in Iraq (news - web sites) amid loud boos from the audience.

While, Google leads to an MTV report which seems much more even-handed.

It's good to get our news from as many different sources as possible, imo.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 11:12 AM

Hey Rick

Well I thought that maybe they know each other and set it up or something, but knowing the superstitions around winning and not making plans, with the exception of an acceptance speech, I would doubt it. And I'd bet he'd have never thoguht about it if it was Kathy Bates.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 11:06 AM

Thanks Blackcatter. I agree. Brodie's behaviour did seem strange. For a minute, I thought it just might be me getting old. And the couple of times the camera focused on Halle...you could see that she was still a bit discombobulated! I heard someone say that it was a set-up...but I doubt it.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From:
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 11:05 AM

Here's a good example of manufacturing consensus: "Good Morning America" this morning introduced a segment specifically devoted to political and war-commentary in the ceremony, and they DID NOT SO MUCH AS MENTION MICHAEL MOORE. We don't need government censorship when we've got the corporate kind.

Peace,

Adam

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 10:51 AM

For those who are surprised that Moore won the Oscar in light of what's happening, remember that these awards were voted on over a month ago, before the war became inevitable.

Moore is a documentary film maker and has built up a great deal of respect among the Hollywood elite as well as the rest of the country. For instance, 65 members of my church went enmasse to see Bowling for Columbine when it first came out.

If you've seen the movie, he doesn't even come to a great conclusion at to the problem of gun violence in the U.S. He reports facts, interview people on both sides of the subject and shows the consequences of gun violence. The one thing in the movie I liked the most was his interview with Marilyn Manson - who came off sounding intelligent and well spoken.

Nobody expected Moore to not say something, in fact, I'd bet that the producers we're relieved when he won and said what he did. They knew that it would eventually happen and saying what he said and being who he is took a lot of the pressure off of everyone else who wanted to say something.

Anyone who thinks that his comments insulted our troops has bought into the conservative lie that liberals hate the military and are secretly glad they're dying. Liberals understand the need for the military (we just think that they're there for defense and not mindless aggression against countries incapable of harming us) and they respect and support the people who serve. Any other interpretation is sickening and says more about conservative objectives than it does liberal ones.


As for Brodie who won best actor - I thought it was insulting that he put the moves on Halle Berry. Proves to me that women in Hollywood, even Oscar winners are still just objects for men to do what they will with. Maybe, next year, the winner will fondle this years breasts as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 10:29 AM

Troll, Rustic Rebel is doing nothing more than the shrub also has done, according to an article coming out in TIME magazine. You can read more at the Drudge Report. Here's the relevant bit:

"F—k Saddam. We're taking him out," said President George W. Bush in March 2002, after poking his head into the office of National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, TIME reports.

Just lovely little bastard, isn't he?

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 10:21 AM

Pseudolus... Are you aware of the billions of people all across this planet for whom this war is a moral digression, a slap in the face to the UN coalition (the only international coalition of any endurance and credibility), and an overwhelmingly negative example of "world leadership"?

We are honor bound to learn and speak. ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 10:18 AM

Hi Doug.....well as I said at the beginning, "sorry to my friends on Mudcat who believe differently than I do...."

....but I guess ya have to decipher your own truth from the information provided. Over and over and over again, I've heard information come from (primarily) Bush, Rumsfeld and Fleischer, that appears so simplistic and generalized, I have to feel it's being aimed at folks who are only able to disseminate simple phrases, and jingoistic false Patriotism.

My cynicism started shortly after the tragedy of 9/11, when not one word of criticism was aimed at Saudi Arabia, (and a couple of others) who should have been number one on a "blame list". I think Bush may have lost a LOT of support at that time.....especially from folks who did a little digging into his family business ties.

When Moore said that troops have been sent to fight a war for "fictitious reasons", it would be hard for me to disagree.

Once again...sorry for the major disagreement.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 10:16 AM

Frank,

One hopes that the soldiers are thinking. Do you think their thoughts are in lock-step with the Bush Regime?

I watched Hoffman to see if he would say anything to follow-up on Moore's thoughts, but his expression was mature, contained, and registered his approval. That wasn't a frown, that was a satisfied expression on his face. A much younger Hoffman would easily have said something. The older Hoffman spoke volumes.

It's pretty amazing how in the media we're hearing about life moving on, games being played (NCAA basketball was discussed on Morning Edition in this context this morning). It hasn't even been a week. Bush and his cronies promoted a quick, seamless, hands-off war, no smell of burned bodies from those jets high in the sky or ships launching missiles. My parents lived through World War II, four years of which saw American involvement. Four years! That's when life must go on, games played and ceremonies broadcast. Right now, I'd favor stopping everything in it's tracks and staring incredulously at Bush's Washington D.C. and asking him if he thinks he's really doing this for each of us? He's doing this for Halliburton and Exxon-Mobile and lots of other big industries. This isn't the first war where industry benefited, and had a lot to do with the justification of war. But it is so painfully obvious this time, you'd think a few more people in the heartland would catch on.

Moore got a lot into that little bit of time he had, and reminding folks about the fictions involved in this war was getting to the heart of the matter. More power to him.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Troll
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 10:06 AM

Jim Dixon, they weren't all watching the oscars you... But word from home does get to them and the rear echelons do have TV.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Pseudolus
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 10:02 AM

I didn't say they were all watching the Oscars and if you read my post you would have known that. I said that some probably were able to see it and some have certainly heard about it. My point was that WHEN they go into battle they should be concerned with the job at hand.


Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 09:56 AM

Pseudolus: If "the only thing on their minds should be the job at hand and staying safe" then what are they doing watching the Oscars?

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Pseudolus
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 09:50 AM

Forum Lurker,
    It doesn't matter that no mention was made of the "soldiers", what they heard was a clear statement that what they were doing was wrong. That has the definite potential to undrmine their thinking at a time when the only thing on their minds should be the job at hand and staying safe...


Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 09:33 AM

I understand the presenters WERE threatened that their mikes would be cut off if they made political statements. I assume that's why most of the political remarks were subtle, polite, and humorous.

However, Michael Moore won the Oscar for a highly political film; it would have been ridiculously hypocritical to try to prevent him from making a political statement. He took full advantage of the license that was given to him. Good for him.

I did hear a lot of boos. Did you also notice the apparently unanimous* standing ovation he got when his name was announced--before his speech? I didn't notice that for any other recipient. They must have known (approximately) what he was going to say. His acceptance speech was nearly identical to the speech he gave at the Independent Spirit Awards, which was broadcast on Bravo on Sunday afternoon. Only there, there was no booing, and he was given more time to speak without having to shout over the music.

*I called the ovation only apparently unanimous because the cameras focused, as usual, on the movie stars who sat in the front few rows. I assume there were people behind them who didn't stand. I assume that's where the studio executives sat, the people with less recognizable faces. I assume that's where the boos came from. I assume those areas were miked for broadcast, but not shown, and that's why the boos sounded louder to me than to Michael Moore.

I haven't seen any statistics, but I'd bet the studio executives are more conservative than the actors. Actors, rich as they may be, for the most part remember what it's like to be poor. Money hasn't corrupted them.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Peter T.
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 09:27 AM

Fond as I am of Michael Moore, he is too smart and smug for his own good. If you are going to have two minutes before a zillion people in the middle of a war, there are better messages than referring to the old news about the election, and troping on fiction and non-fiction. A simple cool statement that America is engaged in an illegal war, unsanctioned by its own previous committments to international law, which threatens to destroy its own republican heritage, and that civil liberties at home are being imperilled, would have been far more effective.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: TIA
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 09:04 AM

troll asked:

"Rustic Rebel, if you show no concern for what other people think, (who gives a fuck if you don't like it) , especially when they express views that you do not share, what does that say about you?"

the answer is:

It says that Rustic Rebel is perfectly suited to practicing the new foreign policy instituted by the Bush Administration.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 09:01 AM

Pseudolus-Some of them think the same thing about the war. Half of them voted for Gore if they could. Did you hear anything about the soldiers in Moore's speech? All I heard was vilification of the regime, not the armed forces.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 08:53 AM

Good point, TIA, the Bushies have the media hogged at the moment and if one nonBushie grabs the mike for so much as one minute, the Bushies squeal like stuck pigs.

Yeah, they are trying to send a message that only *their* opinions count.

"Step out of line the man come and take you away..."

Like I said earlier. Good on Mike.

He'd Make Tom Jefferson proud.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Pseudolus
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 08:32 AM

I believe that the Oscars were broadcast overseas and there were most likely a number of folks involved in this war that were able to watch them. Certainly the news of Moore's tirade has most likely reached the troops by now. That's just what they need to hear before they go out and risk their lives in a war, that they're involved in an illegal and unjust war and this idiot is screaming about it at the Oscar's. It must really give them confidence that they have the prospect of being treated along the same lines as a viet nam vet was treated upon returning to the US.

Moore is a horse's ass....


Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 08:22 AM

I believe there are Australians participating with the US and Britain. So, far these are the only nations to support the US in any kind of real involvement.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Willie-O
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 08:12 AM

Right on Michael!

A couple of things did strike me.

I think the real miracle is that they gave him the Oscar. Everyone knew what he was going to do if he got it. His fans would have been hugely disappointed had he not followed through on his announced intentions. And those who don't like him will dislike him a bit more. It shows that there is still a little bit of room for a gutsy independent filmmaker who doesn't get support from the bad guys. I mean, are Rush Limbaugh and Pepsi going to pull their advertising? From where?

Gee, maybe some right-minded folks will start picketing Bowling for Columbine showings. You know they want to anyway...

Jack Valenti, last I heard, is pres of the main American trade organization, not the Actors Guild. He's all the time whining about Canada stealing productions from Hollywood (in other words, free trade in action--we do it better and cheaper and our locations are safer and cleaner!).

Finally, I haven't seen Bowling for Columbine yet, but from everything I've heard he's come a long way since he made "Canadian Bacon". Now there's a bad movie. If the industry really wants to get back at him they will get the movie networks to start showing it once a day.

Willie-O

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: InOBU
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 07:32 AM

There was also editing of the audience shots, hard as it was live. As you saw the producer of Streets of New York, Martin Scorsese raise his hands to clap they cut away from him. DougR, what kind of documentary filmmaker would he be if he did not speak the truth, even to power and fluff.
Cheers to you all cheers and tears and love to Michael Moore
Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: TIA
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 07:12 AM

Why does the Right slam "Hollywood Types" and other entertainers for voicing their opinions?

The opinions of the Right are broadcast incessantly by Limbaugh, Savage, Gallagher, Hannity, O'Reilly, et al., and they are entertainers (self-proclaimed on many occasions!).

Keep talking, Michael Moore (and all you other vacuous Hollywooders who just happen to be CORRECT).

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: gnu
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 06:33 AM

Geoff the Duck said..."The ONLY troops in Iraq are US and British. NO other nations have sent troops. Do not try to tell us that other nations are there, because they are NOT!"

The Aussies are still colonists then ? What about the Polish ? Surely you don't claim Poland as a colony ? Can you also deny rumours that Ghurkas are in country (Baghdad) as well ?

As for Big Mike, a man of true conviction and true courage.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: JudyR
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 05:18 AM

Moore said backstage to the press something like, "I know you guys'll all write about the chorus of boos, but there were about five boos, and the rest were cheers..."

I didn't think the audience looked stunned. You could see Dustin Hoffman's contained smile, you could see Harrison Ford digging it -- Ford's an old hippie carpenter that used to hang out at a country music place here in the 70's. I bet I know what he thinks!

Everybody's just been silenced, and told they weren't to say anything...and the right is slamming Hollywood activists so bad right now, it's almost a dangerous atmosphere. Yeah, I'd say it was darned brave of Moore.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Troll
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 04:52 AM

Rustic Rebel, if you show no concern for what other people think, (who gives a fuck if you don't like it) , especially when they express views that you do not share, what does that say about you?

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 04:15 AM

DougR -you say I thought, because many nations have young people fighting in Iraq, for the freedom of the Iraqi people, that he made a complete ass of himself.
The ONLY troops in Iraq are US and British. NO other nations have sent troops. Do not try to tell us that other nations are there, because they are NOT! The United Nations has said that an unilateral invasion of Iraq does NOT have their backing. The people of Britain do NOT support Tony Blair in this war. We are about 70% against it according to all opinion polls.
As I see it - Michael Moore gives a more accurate portrayal of the reality of this Illegal Invasion than you do. I pity the poor troops out there. They have been sent in on a lie, and repeating the lie does NOT make it any truer.
Most of the reported casualties and deaths reported today were British Troops killed by US troops. I for one am not impressed.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 04:11 AM

Adrien Brody, winner of the best actor award for The Pianist, received a standing ovation when he said: "Whether you believe in God or Allah, may He watch over you and let's pray for a peaceful and swift resolution."

Amen to that!
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 02:11 AM

I think the point is he said what he had to say, and who gives a fuck if you don't like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: DougR
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 01:42 AM

Rick: I'm not going to read the balance of the replies to your post on this thread before posting my own reply. You thought Michael Moore's statement was great, I thought it was totally out of place.

I sent an email to Frank Pierson, President of the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences tonight congratulating him for not allowing that ceremony, which is intended to recognize the best in motion picture production for a specific year, to turn into a political tirade for or against anything.

Michael Moore's comments were not well received by the audience, and although he may have felt himself the hero for doing so, I thought, because many nations have young people fighting in Iraq, for the freedom of the Iraqi people, that he made a complete ass of himself.

I'm a bit disappointed that you see him as a hero, but I agree that you have a right to see it as you do.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:48 AM

I second the motion... Thank you Mr Moore! It took way more than guts to say what he did in that situation... The media blitz has made it virtually impossible for any opinions other than the administration's "hard line" to be heard in an 'authentic' setting... and I believe he has illustrated this beautifully! It might be seen as indulgent if there has been adequate coverage of the mainstream humanitarian concerns, but there has not been any credible discussion by the administration on these topics... This just made my day!

Support our troops! Bring them home now! ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Armen Tanzerian
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:43 AM

Melissa Gilbert is president of SAG. I don't think Valenti is president of anything any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:36 AM

And that Jack Valente had to come out right after Moore's speech was priceless. The Screen Actors Guild would be better off with the lifeless, Meadowlands-covered corpse of Hoffa as their president.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:31 AM

O'Toole was classy.

Moore was Moore. It would have taken more guts for him NOT to speak out.

Kirk Douglas and Olivia de Haviland showed guts.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Armen Tanzerian
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:28 AM

Actually, Steve Martin got in his licks right at the top, though in a much more lighthearted way:

"This year we did away with the red carpet -- THAT'll send a message!!"

"As a special gesture, all the proceeds from tonight's show will be given to major corporations."

Exactly, Steve, exactly.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Amos
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:11 AM

O'Toole's speech was amazing, first class, all-time excellent language.

Moore was very gutsy -- he hauled all the contenders for the Oscar he had just been awarded onto stage with him, and on their joint behalf made a little speech denouncing the falsity of the war situation.

Even those who disagree with him have to give him high points for sheer guts.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Thank you, Thank you, Michael Moore!
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 11:49 PM

Up until Michael Moore, I thought they might have threatened people with beheading for mentioning the fact there was a war going on. They probably had something worse in mind for those expressing any opinions about it. I suppose they just wanted to avoid controversy, but it seems like they're dancing around the issue and pretending everything's just hunky-dory. It's the Stepford Oscars.

Peter O'Toole was pretty cool too, although he didn't say anything political.