Pronunciation of Irish language

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 10:13 AM

much easier if you post the Irish as written, and tell us if there is a dot over any letter or a long mark over a vowel. The fadas aren't just really for emphasis, they do indeed change the pronunciation, just like long vowels in english are different from short.

BASIC pronunciation, discounting regional dialects, and not getting into the broad and slender characteristics are:

a - as u in up
á - as aw in maw
e - as e in bet
é - as ei in reign
i - as i in bit
í - as ee in feel
o - as u in up
ó - as o in go
u - as u in up
ú - as oo in boot

b - as in boy
c - as in cat, ALWAYS a hard c
d - as in door
f - as in fit
g - as in good
h - as in hat
l - as in luck
m - as in Mary
n - as in nut
p - as in Paul
r - as in rat
s - as in sam or sham depending on vowels
t - as in tip

dots over certain consonants cause lenition or softening (lenience)

bh - as v or w as in will or vwill
ch - as in German ach, a gutteral sound, as in chutzpah
dh - as in y in yell or silent, Gaelic was spelled Gaedhelic once
fh - silent
gh - as y
mh - v or w
ph - as f
sh - silent
th - silent

another consonant change is called eclipsis, always pronounce the first letter in the combination co

mb - as m
gc - as g
nd - as n
bhf - as v
bp - as b
dt - as d

hope this helps a bit, but give us the Irish, we'll help you pronounce it

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: pavane
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 08:59 AM

Welsh mutations
These occur when the mutated letter follows particular other letters

Examples

Coch = red (like Byrn Coch, where I live - which is Red Hill)
Draig = dragon

red dragon becomes
y ddraig goch

Other possibilities include
B -> F ( as in Bach -> Fach (small))

C -> G -> Ng

D -> dd (pron Th)

Complicates the dictionary somewhat when the first letter of a word can change.

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: pavane
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 08:52 AM

Would have heard it if I had Big Ears

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 08:45 AM

I though it was pronounced

I-RISH Lang widge.?

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 07:16 AM

The Welsh have mutations?
Dont know anything about welsh....
Glad you found the pages helpful.

Conrad

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 07:07 AM

Pavane - try this.

Wherever there is a dot over the letter - replace the dot with the letter h imediately after that letter. This is called a buailte and is used to alter/soften the pronunciation.

The line over the letter is called a fada and is used to accentuate the vowel. You cant replace this in modrn text.
Try writing the names using a h instead of dot and leave out the fadas for the moment. We might be able to do somthing for you.
Barry

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: pavane
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 07:03 AM

Conrad,
Yes there are some useful hints there.
It looks like Eclipsis corresponds to what the Welsh have as Mutations?
Thanks

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: pavane
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 06:58 AM

Thanks Guest - but there are also letters which don't seem to match any latin letter - for example, one like an o but with a line at the top going left. And what about a C with a dot over it?

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 06:54 AM

Perhaps my pronunciation guide will help

Click here

a few other aids as well are at the main page:

Click here

have fun!

Conrad
------------------------------------------------

Links updated. JoeClone

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: GUEST,barry
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 06:53 AM

Pavane
If you want to make an attempt to put up the text of the tune title someone might know it.
Otherwise put up the number from O'neill's and I'll look them up at home. I can put up the title in modern irish script and let the native speakers from the regions argue about pronunciation.

I learned "Dublin Irish" and when as a student I went to Ran na Feirste in Donegal I thought I was in a foreign country - couldn't understand a word.

It might be a day or two before I get back to you cos i dont have O'Neills with me at work.
FYI - there are several old gaelic fonts available to download on the net - gailge2, gaelA, gaelB, etc.. Cant remember where I got them but google should find them for anyone interested.

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 06:45 AM

It's not difficult to transpose the old script. If a letter has a dot on top of it, substitute the letter 'h' for the dot. Be careful distinguishing 'r' from 's' as they look rather similar in the old script.

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: pavane
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 06:39 AM

E.g. 'Another Jig will do', 'Hunt the Hare'

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: pavane
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 06:38 AM

Thanks. Unfortunately, the examples I have are in the old script, which is difficult to post here, and I don't yet have a transliteration into the new!

Maybe if I just post the English titles, someone could supply the Irish?

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: Fiolar
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 06:28 AM

Daithi: You must be mad.. As a Munster man, I recall when one year one of of our Irish exam papers was in Donegal Irish and we had little knowledge of some of the words. In fact as I recall the matter was later raised in the Dail.
Pavane: For the old Irish script, try and get hold of Father Patrick Dineen's "Focloir Gaedilge agus Bearla" (Irish-English Dictionary) published by the Irish Texts Society, Dublin. ISBN is 1-870-16600-0. It gives a comprehensive guide on pronounciation using the old script, which incidentally I find easier than the modern one.
Best of luck
Fiolar

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: GUEST,Dáithí mag Fhionainn
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 04:50 AM

It's often said that the purpose of Irish spelling is to disguise the pronunciation!
Your best bet would be to post the titles you're interested in, and I'm sure one of the many Irish speakers on Mudcat will give you a phonetic version. there are, of course, dialect differences to contend with too. (i originally learnt Munster Irish and am now concentrating on Donegal Irish)
Adh mór! Dáithí

Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: Hrothgar
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 04:24 AM

Pronounce it the way it's spelt.

Now find somebody to explain how it's spelt ....

Subject: Pronunciation of Irish language
From: pavane
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 03:55 AM

Is there anyone who can advise me on pronunciation of Irish (Gaelic)
either based on the old Irish script, or in Latin script.

I just wish to be able to announce a couple of tunes from O'Niells, in the same way as I attempt to introduce Welsh tunes in my best (Englander/Saxon) Welsh.