A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alan Day
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:21 PM

Too highbrow for you Diane?
Al

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:21 PM

Hey! Who does she think she is- Bobert???

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:11 PM

How dare any of you uncouth, unwashed cretins enjoy anything that Diane Eastby hasn't given a stamp of approval!!

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:04 PM

My first thought when she walked out on stage, concerning her looks, is that she looked like a character actor from a BBC production, NOT a bad thing in itself, at all, imo. Then, when she spoke, she even sounded like one and I'd pegged the accent, too. Still nothing negative, but when she sang, oh boy! It elevated my interest in her even more as she not only seems like an accomplished actress but sounds wonderful, too! I hope she finds employment doing that which she loves best and lets all negatives fall by the wayside.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 02:04 PM

As I listen to The Now Show, a weekly topical / satirical exposé on the wireless, they're doing a sketch about just how few words are needed to start a smear (in particular over what high-ranking politicians or their relatives may or may not be up to), I am prompted to point out that I'm not "raining on anybody's parade".

I'd never before heard of this Scottish person who appeared on a TV programme which I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than watch, and will take great care never to let her penetrate my radar again. I'd break Olympic records running to escape renditions of the execrable dumbing down of Victor Hugo's work. What I fail to understand is why anyone else should be arsed to listen / watch this musical bilge (I actually lasted three bars . . . ) It's a hype, obviously. The sole question is . . . why? It's a million miles from falling into the remit of what this forum is supposed to be about.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:47 PM

Is a matron technically a mother? I duuno...even as a sometimes pedant, meself.

She is what we used to call 'matronly'.


I wonder what blind folks would think of her singing, not having read all the debate & hype.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:42 PM

And not only that, but it also reinforces the concept that anyone who doesn't fit the commercial standard of how people should look cannot also be an accomplished performer. The idea they are promoting is that if someone who looks as Susan does can actually do something, it just has to be a fluke.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:36 PM

Yes, Carol and Mick.

What bothers me most about the comments by Piers and what's-her-name and some of the reviewers is that they reinforce the concept that any woman who doesn't look young, very slim, and glamourous, with the face of a supermodel is "ugly."

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:22 PM

I agree Mick,
but has anyone been bitter or smug?

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:22 PM

I think we can be happy for her while at the same time not appreciating what some of us may have seen as disrespectful behavior on the part of the people in the show. That certainly is the case for me. If someone thinks there is something out of line in that, maybe that person needs to examine his or her own prejudices with regard to peoples' looks.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:14 PM

Sometimes I watch these discussions and wonder what the hell makes folks so bitter, or smug, ...... whatever, that they just can't be happy for someone. For whatever reason, no matter her previous accomplishment and/or training, this is a person with dreams deferred. She gets a moment, and she shines. Anyone so cynical as to not be able to see the true astonishment on the faces of judges and audience, and on the performer herself, is beyond help, IMO. Your lives must be very sad.

As to her appearance, I don't get all the attention to it. She just looks like an ordinary person to me. When I see the plastic injected, botox ridden, dyed hair men and women, I see people not comfy in their own skin. When I see someone like Susan, I see an ordinary person, comfy with who she is, and attractive in a way that one can only see if they are willing to see people for who they are, instead of who they are projecting themselves as. She has a glint in her eye, a sauciness in her demeanor, and a bounce in her step. It would be my guess that once one got past her shyness, he would find a very enjoyable person to spend time with. One can find physical beauty by spending a bit of money on a magazine, if in fact you find that attractive. But to find the beauty in the ordinary, one must invest of themselves, and that is an expensive proposition. I would guess that whomever did so with this Ms. Boyle would find a gem.

And what pipes........

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:05 PM

Correction - she's been singing since she was 12.

Here's Susan in 1999, singing Cry Me a River...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI2DxkrgpgQ

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: meself
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 01:02 PM

Isn't a "matron" a mother ?

Resident Pedant

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:55 PM

I also had a problem with the big deal they (including the judges) were making of her looks. I thought they were very disrespectful in that regard. And one of those guys from backstage said, "I bet you didn't expect that did you? No, you didn't." Why not? Why wouldn't I expect her to sing like that? What reason would there be for me to make that assumption?

For those who were wondering how she learned to sing like that, I heard her say in an interview that she has been singing since she was 13, and she has received professional training.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:53 PM

"Karaoke," strictly speaking, just means one is using a canned backup instrumental. On a show like BGT, unless they play an instruments, that's what all the singers do, I think. I don't think it's fair to call all vocalists "karaoke" if they don't accompany themselves on guitar or piano, etc.

The other, more pejorative use of "karaoke" implies that one is imitating the arrangement and styling of another singer's recording. Susan didn't really do that - especially on her recording of Cry Me A River.   I think she is a vocal stylist in her own right and doesn't deserve the snide "karaoke" epithet.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:47 PM

she has a good voice.
if she was to attempt to sing traditional songs she would probably make a bad a job of it as Peter Pears did,to do justice to any style you have to absorb yourself in that style of music.
I wish her success,and may her cat Pebbles have the best caviar.,but I wont turn up to any of her gigs.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:47 PM

Diane, you need to go do something else other than rain on this parade. This great voice is just "a karaoke singer" like Pavarotti was just some OK Italian tenor.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:46 PM

Piers, I think you may be right about Susan going along with a partially staged episode on BGT. And I don't fault them, or her, for that.

Susan's looks are what they are, but normally one would expect that a woman "auditioning" in a world that values youth, beauty, and glamor would have her hair and makeup done professionally and wear the most flattering outfit she could muster for that audition. The fact that Susan came out on the BGT stage in a kind of frumpy-looking dress that looked washed-out on TV, with an almost nonexistent "style" to her hair, and looking like she hadn't paid any attention to makeup - that says to me one of two things: Either she and the show producers agreed that she should capitalize on the ugly-duckling-into-swan thing or she simply wanted to defiantly declare to the entertainment-seeking public, "This is who I am, warts and all.   Take it or leave it."   I suspect it was a little more of the former than the latter.

I don't know that much about how BGT (or America's Got Talent) works, but on the "Idol" shows that Cowell also does, all the contestants who get TV time at all have been seen and heard by the judges.   And in both shows (Got Talent and Idol), some contestants are put in front of the viewing public for comic relief (e.g., the "bad singers" portion of the aired Idol competition), and occasionally a contestant is put through to the semifinals (where the public gets to vote) despite "not looking like a pop star," because the show's producers think the contrast between image and voice makes for good entertainment.
(In American Idol's second season, the competition was basically between 6'1"/145 lb "geeky" Clay Aiken and 6'3" 350 lb "teddy bear" Ruben Studdard: both guys had big, gorgeous voices, but neither "looked like a pop star," and the show capitalized on the contrasts.)   
I get the feeling, from watching America's Got Talent, that the judges on that show have NOT actually heard and seen the contestants before they perform for the TV audience. But rest assured that there are plenty of people involved in producing the show who HAVE auditioned and chosen these people.   Someone who looked like Susan Boyle would never have made it onto the televised portion of the show unless she was either so BAD that her spot on the show would have been comic relief or so GOOD that people would be astonished that "THAT voice is coming from THAT body and face!"    The BGT judges naturally knew that Susan was going to be one or the other.   (No one with Susan's visual image and a so-so voice would have been selected to appear on the show.)   
Piers and the woman judge may have been expecting Susan to be yet another comic-relief act and were pleasantly surprised when she turned out to be the other option. I think Simon Cowell, with all his years dealing with Pop Idol and American Idol, probably really did "know" the minute she walked out on stage that he was about to hear something extraordinary.    Not because that was "staged," but because he knows how the TV show works.

Genie

PS,
Leo, you're so right. Susan Boyle isn't anywhere near the grotesque that some reviews are making her out to be. She's a rather average-looking 40-something woman in an entertainment world that more and more seems to expect, even demand, that women be a size 4 (with a DD bra size) 20-something with "chicklet teeth."    Walter Mathau can be paired with Sophia Loren as a romantic couple, for instance, but not Bea Arthur with Paul Newman.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:44 PM

So, if I went on stage and had a que-ed up piece of folk on a CD played whilst I sang, would that mean I was just a "karaoke" singer worthy of snide remarks and put-downs? This seems like an opportune time for a bumper sticker idea I had the other day, based on the early American flag with a snake on it, saying "Don't tread on me" it would instead have some other symbology and the slogan "Don't trad on me!" NOT something for this crowd, usually, but in this instance it just might be!

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:34 PM

"Who cares?"\\Oh, 30-40 million people ..if reports are accurate... *grin*

She is a talented lady from a small town who has gotten little notice outside her own area...up to now. She is a matron...she looks the part....she is a delight, no matter what.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:26 PM

I'm not otherwise interested, nor in songs from "Les Mis"

No, neither was I, which was the reason why I told a tale about Cameron Mackintosh's accountant instead.
What I really cannot understand is why contributors to this forum are rabbitting on about an item of off-topic MOR schlock (thanks, Jack Campin) from a trashy TV reality show belted out by a karaoke singer.
Who cares?
I mean, Folkworks Feast of Fiddles is on this weekend . . .

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:11 PM

I think the articles are disgusting in their unkind descriptions of Susan's looks. Regardless of the spin .... "this is the way the general public sees ugly and should we all be ashamed of how we judge". There was no need for such descriptives. They are designed to hurt not only Susan, but those who care for her and those who compare themselves with her.

What is the point of that kind of mean-spiritedness? It doesn't teach anything but that it is ok to say unkind things in print about how a person looks.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:11 PM

MMario, I would hope she spends more time reading her fansites than the negative spewing.

I am amazed that some are still saying she is fat. She was straight up and tall with no waist, but she is not fat other than a slight double chin. With a nicely tailored set of clothes, she could even look slender...pay attention to her legs and arms in the video; she is a fit person.

As for others who are successful and don't fit the mold...Queen Latifah comes to mind. Also, Bette Midler...I know she is not fat, but she has always looked very *full* to me...maybe it's her breast size?

Alice, thanks for the Cry Me A River link. I don't like the song from Les Mis, so this has become my fav. of Susan Boyle singing, which she does so well.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Genie
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 12:00 PM

Maggie, now that you mention Judy Garland and Barbra Streisand, when I was listening to Susan Boyle singing Cry Me A River, her voice and phrasing kept reminding me alternately of the two of them. She sounds sort of like the proverbial "love child of" Judy and Barbra - which wouldn't be bad parentage, even metphorically, for a singer. (Maybe her phrasing's a little more Ella, though, and that's another plus.)

She's wonderful.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:54 AM

If you'll google her and look at the interview I watched on CBS for their morning news magazine, you'll see someone who is less comfortable being interviewed and maintaining eye contact (with interviewer or camera) than she is comfortable singing on stage.

I think that bump and grind was aimed at the audience, not the judges, because I think she was already hearing the grumbling and gave them back something to consider. She's more than just her age, more than just her looks.

They're talking about her right now on Diane Rehm. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:46 AM

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Maryrrf - PM
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:39 AM

"One thing that disturbs me is that she must be reading/hearing all the articles and comments about how 'unnatractive' she is. It must be difficult hearing yourself described as 'frumpy', 'overweight', 'ugly' etc."

I hope not. I heard about her on the radio here in Germany and it said that she performed in clubs. She didn't seem very nervous and I don't think she would have done a bump-and-grind in front of all those people if she didn't feel comfortable on stage.

Call me cynical*, but I think the frumpiness was a set up. I think hurtful remarks are par for the course for people who put themselves in the public eye. I do hope she doesn't let them bother her.




* Just don't call me late for dinner.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Maryrrf
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:39 AM

One thing that disturbs me is that she must be reading/hearing all the articles and comments about how 'unnatractive' she is. It must be difficult hearing yourself described as 'frumpy', 'overweight', 'ugly' etc.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:39 AM

"[...] or as bent as a three bob not"

I meant a "note", of course.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:38 AM

Good voice. I wish her every success. I didn't care much for the song from _Les Miserables_, but I thought version of "Cry Me a River" was very good. I usually hate when people say "interpret" instead of "sing", but in this case I think that's what she did, and very well, too.

The TV show, with all the eye-rolling and smirking followed by enthusiastic applause seemed to me to be as phony as a three dollar bill, or as bent as a three bob not, if you prefer. That's no reflection on Susan Boyle, though. I hope she grabs her chance and gets a part in a West End musical, if that's what she wants.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: MMario
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:12 AM

yuppers - if people consider Susan "ugly" - they should meet some of my cowerkers.

Ordinary I can see being used as a description.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 11:07 AM

She didn't have bad teeth. She isn't fat. She has clear skin, but is nondescript, and she doesn't fool with the affectations of cosmetics. Geez, Louise! It's not like Quasimodo rolled onto the stage last Saturday.

Mary, I beat you to the Now, Voyager allusion with a link several posts up. Shades of Charlotte Vale, indeed! :)

SRS

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:26 AM

That's the one thing I don't believe. Dowdy - yes. But unattractive - no. It has been driving me crazy - where have I seen that woman before. Then it hit me. Bette Davis in Now Voyager. Go look if you don't believe me. In the beginning of the film Bette is dumpy and dowdy with heavy brows and an impending breakdown. Then she comes out of her caccoon (complete with butterfly cape). LOL
Wonder if Susan Boyle smokes?

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: NormanD
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:21 AM

I was attracted to this thread title because I once knew a young woman with the same name, and haven't seen her for 35+ years. She played a lap dulcimer she'd made herself and had a fine singing voice. Anyway, wrong woman.

My feelings rest with glueman over this. I wish her all the best, whatever it might mean for her. Call me what you will, but I'm not otherwise interested, nor in songs from "Les Mis", as popular as they are.

There was a good opinion piece in a UK newspaper y'day, which I've cut & pasted here, I think it makes some good points about the perception of beauty and attractiveness.


"It wasn't singer Susan Boyle who was ugly on Britain's Got Talent so much as our reaction to her"
Tanya Gold
          o The Guardian, Thursday 16 April 2009
         

"Is Susan Boyle ugly? Or are we? On Saturday night she stood on the stage in Britain's Got Talent; small and rather chubby, with a squashed face, unruly teeth and unkempt hair. She wore a gold lace dress, which made her look like a piece of pork sitting on a doily. Interviewed by Ant and Dec beforehand, she told them that she is unemployed, single, lives with a cat called Pebbles and has never been kissed. Susan then walked out to chatter, giggling, and a long and unpleasant wolf whistle.

Why are we so shocked when "ugly" women can do things, rather than sitting at home weeping and wishing they were somebody else? Men are allowed to be ugly and talented. Alan Sugar looks like a burst bag of flour. Gordon Ramsay has a dried-up riverbed for a face. Justin Lee Collins looks like Cousin It from The Addams Family. Graham Norton is a baboon in mascara. I could go on. But a woman has to have the bright, empty beauty of a toy - or get off the screen. We don't want to look at you. Except on the news, where you can weep because some awful personal tragedy has befallen you.

Simon Cowell, now buffed to the sheen of an ornamental pebble, asked this strange creature, this alien, how old she was. "I'm nearly 47," she said. Simon rolled his eyes until they threatened to roll out of his head, down the aisle and out into street. "But that's only one side of me," Susan added, and wiggled her hips. The camera cut to the other male judge, Piers Morgan, who winced. Didn't Susan know she was not supposed to be sexual? The audience's reaction was equally disgusting. They giggled with embarrassment, and when Susan said she wanted to be a professional singer, the camera spun to a young girl, who seemed to be at least half mascara.

She gave an "As if!" squeak and smirked. Amanda Holden, the female judge, a woman with improbably raised eyebrows and snail trails of Botox over her perfectly smooth face, chose neutrality. And then Susan sang. She stood with her feet apart, like a Scottish Edith Piaf, and very slowly began to sing Les Miserables' I Dreamed A Dream. It was wonderful.

The judges were astonished. They gasped, they gaped, they clapped. They looked almost ashamed. I was briefly worried that Simon might stab himself with a pencil, and mutter, "Et tu, Piers, for we have wronged Susan in thinking that because she is a munter, she is entirely useless." How could they have misjudged her, they gesticulated. But how could they not? No makeup? Bad teeth? Funny hair? Is she insane, this sad little Scottish spinster, beloved only of Pebbles the Cat?

When Susan had finished singing, and Piers had finished gasping, he said this. It was a comment of incredible spite. "When you stood there with that cheeky grin and said, 'I want to be like Elaine Paige', everyone was laughing at you. No one is laughing now." And it was over to Amanda Holden, a woman most notable for playing a psychotic hairdresser in the Manchester hair-extensions saga Cutting It. "I am so thrilled," said Amanda, "because I know that everybody was against you." "Everybody was against you," she said, as if Susan might have been hanged for her presumption. Why? Can't "ugly" people dream, you flat-packed, hair-ironed, over-plucked monstrous fool?

I know what you will say. You will say that Paul Potts, the fat opera singer with the equally squashed face who won Britain's Got Talent in 2007, had just as hard a time at his first audition. I looked it up on YouTube. He did not. "I wasn't expecting that," said Simon to Paul. "Neither was I," said Amanda. "You have an incredible voice," said Piers. And that was it. No laughter, or invitations to paranoia, or mocking wolf-whistles, or smirking, or derision.

We see this all the time in popular culture. Do you ever stare at the TV and wonder where the next generation of Judi Denchs and Juliet Stevensons have gone? Have they fallen down a Rada wormhole? Yes. They're not there, because they aren't pretty enough to get airtime. This lust for homogeneity in female beauty means that when someone who doesn't resemble a diagram in a plastic surgeon's office steps up to the microphone, people fall about and treat us to despicable sub-John Gielgud gestures of amazement.

Susan will probably win Britain's Got Talent. She will be the little munter that could sing, served up for the British public every Saturday night. Look! It's "ugly"! It sings! And I know that we think that this will make us better people. But Susan Boyle will be the freakish exception that makes the rule. By raising this Susan up, we will forgive ourselves for grinding every other Susan into the dust. It will be a very partial and poisoned redemption. Because Britain's Got Malice. Sing, Susan, sing - to an ugly crowd that doesn't deserve you."

Article here

Norman

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 10:00 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/16/AR2009041602419.html



"The Dream She Dreamed
Cheers for a Voice to Silence the Cynics

By Jeanne McManus
Friday, April 17, 2009

One of the engines that drive a cynical world in general and reality TV in particular is sparked by the friction between self-perception and fact. There's nothing quite like a stage and the hot spotlights of shows such as "American Idol" to make it clear to Everyman that his own measure of self-worth has just collided with a wall of three judges, and the results are messy blood sport for the viewing public.

Onto such a stage last weekend -- for the show "Britain's Got Talent" -- came Susan Boyle, and the setup was ripe. The solid-looking Scot in clumpy shoes and a dress the color of weak tea strode forward with the purposefulness of a woman who was going to dig a furrow for spring potatoes.

She had a streak of playfulness and shyness and a broad swath of uncowering dignity. And pride. She wanted to measure her talents against those of Elaine Paige, a British legend.

The eye-rolling public and the three jaded judges were waiting for her to squawk like a duck.

When I first saw the You Tube version of her performance of "I Dreamed a Dream," I kept looking for evidence of fraud in spite of the standing ovations of the live audience. From the first line of the first stanza, the confident yet angelic voice did not seem to match the workaday face and dark brows of the woman who was singing. It's a song about the loss of innocence and optimism. I hate the song. I hate "Les Misérables," the musical from which it comes. But I could not take my eyes off Susan Boyle, and I could not stop listening to her poised, pure notes, her perfect enunciation, her self-assured emotion. So I kept playing the song, and replaying it. I am usually front-row center in any audience of cynics, and I'm still not sick of it.

Sure, it would be nice if Boyle goes on to win the finals of this competition -- and even to meet the queen. But to me that's not the point. In a world that is sometimes rife with bloated résumés, stage mothers, fawning friends, self-adulation, narcissism and bedroom shelves holding too many meaningless trophies from middle school, here is a woman who took an accurate measure of her worth and put it to the test in the white-hot crucible of reality TV.


There's nothing wrong with pride. It's false pride that is the problem.

For now, the 47-year-old single woman has returned to Blackburn, her small village in Scotland, where I pray she can be preserved and defended from stylists, colorists, manicurists, eyebrow waxers, record producers, morning talk shows and other makeover mavens who will seek to dye her roots, define her waistline and steal her purity.

Which brings me to another point: Susan Boyle says she has never been kissed.

Men of Blackburn: What are you waiting for? "

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 09:11 AM

BTW

I'm just listening to Cry Me A River. It must have had a very small circulation as I would hazard a guess that, if this had got to anyone who had any influence in these matters, this lady would have been picked up a lot earlier.

Just my opinion.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 09:06 AM

It has been stated that Susan had performed locally prior to her performance on TV.

So far as having recorded before - that applies to quite a number of people who wouldn't even dream of making it as a professional singer. Susan said that it was her ambition to sing in front of a big audience, something that she had clearly not done up to that time. There are many of us around who have sung to small local group and even got a track onto a CD that had some sales. That, to me, does not take away from what this woman has or what she can achieve with that wonderful voice.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alan Day
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:48 AM

Andrew do you honestly think this was all stage managed.That Cowell organised a group of his men to go up to Scotland sit down with Susan and pre arrange it all. I admit from now on it will be all stage managed but before hand ? I would think the man has better things to do with his time.She has obviously sung in public before and was not the complete innocent we were led to believe,but you cannot stage manage a performance like she did. She is now a World Wide star,Cowell is a better man than I Gunga Din, if he could pull this one off by pre arrangement, or the expressions of amazement by the members of the panel.
He certainly would have organised Paul Potts teeth treatment before the show.
Al

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: MMario
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:46 AM

I mean to say - there are a large number of people who have never recorded anything else (though many have ) on the Mudcat CD's. If one of them hit it big would you say "Oh well - they recorded before - no big deal!" I doubt it!

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: MMario
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:40 AM

Oh please! There is a big difference between doing a limited edition charity recording and having a recording contract.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: andrewq
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 06:35 AM

So "unknown" Susan has previously made a record.... Just like "unknown" Paul Potts had actually appeared in several semi-pro productions and done workshops with Pavarotti.

As for there being no marketing involved, Alan, p-l-e-a-s-e. There were more editorial decisions to build the ecstatic hype in that few minutes of broadcast television than in the coming of the ObamaMessiah. The show is owned by Cowell. He has a history of short term promotion of unconventional looks for a quick buck (think Michelle McManus... Paul Potts... Susan Boyle...). The woman sang well. I wish her every success and hope she won't be spat out with the rest when her carefully stage-managed 15 minutes is up.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 03:12 AM

I am crying a river after listening to song of same name. Think I am not going to be able to cope with seeing and hearing this Susan anymore.   

Makes me miss my Andie. She was a big girl (unlovely to some) with the kind of stage presence Susan boasts. One might think the voice is so startlingly good because of the surprise. One doesn't expect that power and skill from anyone who does not fit a prescribed physical aesthtic.

I know that Andie used to get sniggers and derision when she climbed the stage early in her high school years until she started singing. By end of sophomore (2nd) year the audience would shush each other when she came out.

There is just something in Susan (as was in Andie) that radiates love of what she doing and the desire to share it. In effect she makes love to the audience.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:41 PM

Watched it at least 7-8 times...with my eyes filled with tears.....BRAVO SUSAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 11:09 PM

Don, don't impugn Ethel Merman! That woman had pipes like nobody's business! She is in my personal favorites list--a triumvirate of big gorgeous voices for popular song--Judy Garland, Ethel Merman, and Barbra Streisand. Actually, I think I need to recategorize to whatever term is grandiose for quartet, because I think Betty Buckley fits in there also.   

So far we've heard Susan sing two songs (good detective work, Alice!), a lament and a blues ballad. They're lovely. I will wait patiently to see what else she comes up with. It has taken this long for her to be discovered, now people need to give her a little wiggle room to work out some good arrangements and go from there.

SRS

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 10:06 PM

"...Don..
did you listen to Cry Me A River??
Or did you not see the link I posted."

Do note, Alice...Don's post was only 4 minutes after yours. He probably spent 15-20 min. writing it.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 10:03 PM

Cross-posted, Alice. Tied up at the moment, so I'll catch it shortly. Sounds good!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:54 PM

Aha! The "Cry Me a River" performance, despite some technical flaws in the recording, shows Susan Boyle has a wonderful instrument and fine expression, as fit for blues as for musical theater--and whattaya think she could do with folk ballads?

Charles

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:51 PM

Gawd, I just love her phrasing on Cry Me A River.
I can't stop listening to it.

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:41 PM

May True Love find you Susan...And I won't peek when you get that first kiss...You have uplifted Spirits around the world...Bless...bob

p.s. I could see Kate Smith smiling in Heaven...

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Alice
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:36 PM

Ummmm, ...Don..
did you listen to Cry Me A River??
Or did you not see the link I posted.

Alice

Susan Boyle, Cry Me A River

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI2DxkrgpgQ

Subject: RE: A Most Heartwarming Performance-Susan Boyle
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Apr 09 - 09:32 PM

Undoubtedly some of the positive reaction to Susan Boyle was due to the contrast between what one expects when they first see her (unfortunate, but true) and what one actually gets when she begins to sing. But the fact remains that even if she were a strikingly beautiful woman, this would neither enhance nor diminish the pleasure and surprise of hearing an extraordinary singing voice.

I don't know how well it could work in musical theater, but opera is legendary for "casting against type" as far as appearance is concerned:   the middle-aged and substantially overweight soprano singing the role of a twenty-year-old ingénue in the process of tragically dying of "consumption" (tuberculosis). This, of course, is a stereotype about opera which, especially within recent years, no longer holds true. With sopranos around who look like Renée Fleming (Cuter than a bug's ear) and Anna Netrebko (Very glamorous. In fact, here's another shot of the internationally famous operatic soprano), or, on the male side, guys who look like Russian baritone Dmitri Hvorostovsky or lyric tenor Juan Diego Florez, opera company directors these days are casting as much for appearance as for voice.

When it comes to musical theater, I know they do like to cast to type. In fact, I went to high school with a lad who had a fine, rich baritone when he was as young as sixteen. He tried his luck on Broadway, and after being told repeatedly, "Frank, you've got a great voice, but—(fill in cliché or your choice)." He finally got cast in "Damn Yankees." "Because," he told me, "they thought I looked like a baseball player!"

But there seems to be a fair amount of latitude. I personally didn't think Ethel Merman was all that gorgeous, and in addition, her singing voice sounded more like an air-raid siren than a human voice. I'll swap you eight Ethel Mermans for one Susan Boyle.

If the world of musical theater is so uncivilized that it would not cast her in vocally suitable roles, she could still have a fine singing career. I'm thinking of "ghost singer" Marnie Nixon, whose voice was all over the place in movies some years ago. She dubbed in the singing for Natalie Wood in "West Side Story," Audrey Hepburn in "My Fair Lady," and many others. Away from the movies, she had a substantial concert career. There is also the matter of recordings. But not just the usual collection of miscellaneous songs. One can get studio recordings of various full-length musical theater works acted and sung by singers who never actually did it on stage.

Just some random thoughts.

Don Firth